Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[No Elimination]

I don't see how she waffled on Rumor, she identified a point of concern but said that it wasn't bothering her right now as it's only been one phase.

While it's true she didn't give opinions, that's not what Rumor was arguing for so it is irrelevant in whether or not Rumor's analysis is good.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Motivation died, posting is hard.  I'll make a post in a bit (or a long time, sue me).  From skimming, Wally (I'm actually dying at "Kahl makes a good scumbuddy for Rumor", the logic is so absurd and everyone should read it IMO) and Sally are still scum and I feel better about Cagney.  I was hoping Cala would have more content so I could get a better read on the slot (literally my opinion right now is "do not want to lynch today" after that defense), and that Grim Matchstick would lay down a vote already because come on man.  None of his content has bothered me at all but he also hasn't pushed anyone today which is ??? Maybe I'm forgetting something, I guess.

##Unvote

##Vote: Sally

Putting vote here because no one is sheeping my Wally read and I'd much rather Sally get lynched over Rumor/Cala.

[No Elimination]

Kahl do you have any comments at all on Rumor's content after you voted and asked her questions? Anything on her response to votes etc?

[No Elimination]

Also will sue you, BBvB, Rumor and Grim for taking a long time I'm dying of boredom over here.

[Cú Chulainn]

Sorry logged off early last night because I remembered that I had to work at 6 AM and I didn't intend to stay up late when I was getting up that early.  Reading now.

[Cú Chulainn]

I am reading, but this will take me some time to get my post, there's like 6 pages or something and I'm tired from work. 

Alternatively I can just post all of my thoughts as I get them here but that would just spam the thread.

[No Elimination]

^^Take your time please, a well thought out post is always better than a porrly read one, I was only joking about people taking a long time because I am/was waiting on a bunch of people. Prob done posting until tomorrow though.

[C. C.]

2 hours ago, Wally Warbles said:

I don't see how she waffled on Rumor, she identified a point of concern but said that it wasn't bothering her right now as it's only been one phase.

While it's true she didn't give opinions, that's not what Rumor was arguing for so it is irrelevant in whether or not Rumor's analysis is good.

Rumor didn't have an overarching point wrt her case on Cala, just that those were bad things.

idk like... there are suspicious things about Rumor. Like the fact that her whole Cala case is based on one post, and she doesn't take other things into account or look at Cala's other posts. And while you do talk about that, it doesn't feel like that's about 30% of your case. The other 70%, the majority, is about her analysis sucking and her not having solid cases. so while responding to your case against Rumor has made me read her posts a lot more closely than I was before, which increases my suspicion about the things you talk about in that 30%, I spend most of my time looking for the things that your case focuses on, and it makes me feel she's townier because I don't think that 70% of your case is good.

[No Elimination]

I think you meant to swap Cala and Rumor in that first sentence. I think "Ok slot who is doing something bad please stop" is an overarching point. How do I encourage you to read Rumor voting Cala based on one post? Meds are kicking in now though so speak to you when I wake.

[Cú Chulainn]

Let me state ahead of time, I'm tired as hell and would much rather take a nap but I know I need to post so I'm going to attempt to post what I can, and then probably take a nap.  A follow-up should occur after I wake up from my nap.

First off ITT people constantly not reading my fucking posts and constantly bringing up the same old shit over and over again.  The start of the day phase is Grim and Dr. Kahl commenting on things I've already answered or commented on myself.  Grim not reading my posts WRT Djinni-lynch and all my thoughts on the process.  Also lol @ stating that you think I'm town but seemingly attempting to throw sludge on my name.

Dr. Kahl comments on my vote on Cala last phase because it was apparently me trying to turbo at the end of the day phase when I was advocating against a turbo.  Interestingly enough if they read my posts last day phase I actually called myself a hypocrite in the same post of me criticizing Captain.  I also stated that I actually wasn't advocating for a turbo and that I 'expected nothing to happen with my vote' And that it was to prove a point to blackbeard.

These types of things have been a re-occuring theme apparently with my posts, I'm sorry that part of the first day phase I wasn't all that well or into it but I've answered questions and I'm growing tired of having to answer or respond to the same things over and over again.  This is partially my fault for not being around that much today but seriously guys.  IF you are going to complain about me and comment on my posts, actually fucking read them.

In Grim's massive wall post two things weird stand out to me: The 'would not lynch Kahl' and the fact that Hilda is in his 'everyone else' pile.  HE's massively scumreading Beppi but beppi/Hilda had a fairly important interaction with each other and I feel that there should be some sort of read on Hilda there.  Also all of the comments about him potentially knowing people should really just stop.

I feel like the interaction between Werner/Grim regarding player identities is not alignment indicative.  And I would like to see a better reasoning behind that Grim vote from Werner, it really seemed weird and out of place to me.  I don't think it was scummy, just extremely weird and I didn't quite get the feeling that Werner was voting Grim as a scum read from it.  I still think Werner is town though.

Wally Warbles really isn't doing anything, his one post on day 1 was not memorable and his first post of day 2 isn't anything crazy.  I also feel like the Rumor vote here is extremely easy, Rumor was one of the lynch candidates the day previous and Wally's entire case consists of "He never swapped off his RVS vote."  Which is really bad but I've sometimes gone entire day phases without really voting before and I don't think that alone can signify who scum is.  I really dislike this post.

Cala's return to the thread is bad imo.  It states some small opinions of her EOD thoughts but has zero actual reads except for on a sally sheep.  No vote also is bad, she even proceeds to state, "She has a vote coming." And then just does not vote anyone until quite a while later, and it's on hilda berg of all things.  Also overall I feel the vote in itself is EXTREMELY weak.  It's a vote based off of some players past game in FEH mafia when it could easily not be the same person.  There reasons for Hilda being scum are just "She acted like this person who was scum in that game, and they are doing that same thing right now."  I'd like to know what @Cala Maria's thoughts are on Hilda's reactions and interactions with players in this game.  I stated this previously but Hilda and Beppi had a pretty interesting scuffle in day 1 and I think it's extremely important for reads in my opinion.  Overall these posts are not making me like Cala at all and I'm further strengthening my scum read on this slot.

Wally's post shortly after makes me dislike everything about him as well.  "Well I'm glad I don't have to reread Cala now."  Just because you assume Rumor is scum, doesn't mean you can just ignore rereading a player who is on a lot of people's scum radar. If you think Cala is town I'd say there is reason enough in that fact to reread her, maybe something you find could help other people see her in a townie light as you do.  Also you really think scum can't fabricate that argument?  That argument on page 13 wasn't anything big and is definitely not alignment indicative.  I guess you could get gut vibes but for something fairly small and over the span of about 4 posts I don't think can say that's town/scum scuffling.  @Wally WarblesWhy are Hilda and Sally the next 2 points of interest for you? Could you actually state more thoughts behind your reads?  I feel like this post has almost no actual scum hunting in it, but seems as if it's made to look nice.  Most of this post was about defending Cala while at the same time stating you wouldn't reread Cala and tunneling on Rumor, which if you wanna tunnel fine go ahead, but give us your thoughts for your other scum reads?

Seems like I wasn't the only person with these thoughts about Cala and Wally.

Once again Grim is commenting on who he thinks players are and I think he should stop, player meta doesn't really help since people have been known before to act like other players in anony games and most of the time players are wrong about who players are.  The only time we have seen REALLY accurate player guess lists post game have been when scum team up to guess who people are.  At least if I'm remembering correctly.

I noticed something here WRT cala and Grim.  People mentioned how Cala dropped the Grim scumread and I think it's interesting that Grim brought this up.  I dislike this but ti's primarily gut.

Did Wally just say Werner/Captain were scum with Rumor?  Also we don't have to know or assume Cala's scum buddies to believe she's scum.  Cala could easily be acting independently from her scum team and be either bussed, or town read or anything.  I don't really see any reasoning in your post for me to think Cala is town.  Maybe a reread with quotes from Cala and other things might help but hey who rereads their supposed obvious town reads amirite?

I'm starting to go into skim state here....This post became a lot more of something than I thought it would, but there is still like 2-3 pages of stuff.

I disagree with a lot of Sally's post,  I don't think most of the cases against Cala are misrepresentations.  Also outside of defending Cala and questioning Rumor more there isn't much scumhunting here and it's pretty empty.

Also comments on thinking Cala is scum when I swear she was defending her to some extent in the previous post, I must be misunderstanding something here.

Sally posted more concrete thoughts on Cala, glad to hear their standing and would like to know how they feel about my Cala case.

Oh hey Cagney taking a pot shot at me over something that was pretty obviously a misread. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ending up skimming most of the rest of things.

Cala > Wally > Grim > Sally

##Vote: Cala Marie

Hopefully I didn't miss anything too important.

[Cú Chulainn]

Also screw quotes @Werner Werman

[Marisa Kirisame]

it wasn't really meant to be a potshot but ok

[Cú Chulainn]

Sorry, feel like I've had a lot of people doing things like that this game so it's getting frustrating.

[Olivier]

Do you have any actual problems with my play other than me making meta reads? Or... half your reads, really. Your Sally read for example seems to be "I disagree with how they're playing so I'm okay with lynching them" vs. "I think what they're doing is scummy" and I feel like your Wally read is much the same.  You did a lot of this D1 too iirc

Also you claim I brought up the Cala read change after other people pointed it out and gutread this as scum but... I don't think anyone talked about it this phase until I brought it up as a towntell? This feels like something you just made up which is ???

man fuck it 

##Vote: bvbb

People really shouldn't be giving this slot a free pass for something easy to fake as scum (their argument with Briney D1) and I don't feel good about voting Sally without doing a proper analysis (which I haven't had the motivation for lul)

[Olivier]

also @Dr.

[Olivier]

... why did that autopost? My hands weren't even on my keyboard. new SF was a mistake

Also @Dr. Kahl I wanted to push the two scumreads I had going into the day but the Beppi read instantly fell on its face and bonbon took like 48 hours to make a post this phase so I sort of had to sit around.

[Ochako Uraraka]

On 2/8/2018 at 1:12 AM, Dr. Kahl said:

 

 

@Cala Maria How does my Rumor vote look bad on a Town!Djimmi flip?  What's the point of your Town!Captain read?  I can get being paranoid about his slot, but the way you're going about it is so...scummy.  You're throwing suspicion onto a slot that you aren't even suspicious of for no reason.   I don't like the Hilda case too.  You're using meta in an OC game and I don't get the same impression from Hilda in this game anyways.  Also, you're using another game to scumread for you.  Why is Hilda scummy in the game we're playing right now?  I don't see how Hilda has been defensive today (I can get yesterday), and Hilda is contributing today.

 

 

It looks bad on a Town!Djimmi flip in the sense that I felt like you kinda stuck to Rumor without pushing anyone else and it didn't feel like Djimmi was being presented as a counterwagon. I said earlier about whether scum would be on the wagon or not but if the wagon formed haphazardly then it makes sense for scum votes to be single votes like your Rumor vote. As I said though, the Rumor vote makes sense FYPOV because Rumor did not play in a way that would change your read on her.

My point about Captain was to get it off of my chest tbh because as I said there could be a point in the game  where my reads were wrong, I'm dead and my townread is actually scum(in this guess its a universal townread) and everyone just defaults to that. In future games I'll make it a point to never do this ever because I doubt anyone gives a fuck about re-reading the game and a dead player's posts and it looks like it stirs up people for no reason in the present.

Hilda's play is nothing like newbtown, honestly. I've mostly talked about her D1 and her D2 post before my vote. Her D1 was her sticking her vote on Beppi and not contributing to discussion at all, her D2 where she takes a 180 on Beppi is convenient because the state of the game is such that Beppi isn't getting lynched soon. The Grim vote is convenient too because she could've talked about Grim earlier and participated but the change in stance and voting Grim over a chainsaw defense looks bad IMO. I kinda feel weird about how easily she unvoted Grim only to still maintain that she was keeping an eye on him, when the Captain provided an argument for why she was wrong about voting Grim, like I'm not sure what else about Grim is bothering her? That's inconsistent. Also today she pretty much defaulted to sticking her vote on me and then staying in the background, I wouldn't be surprised if she made a similar play in the next phase either. Like I really don't get where people are getting the newbie pass argument from, feels like they just don't want to lynch her because she's new/inexperienced but that doesn't mean she isn't scum.

[Ochako Uraraka]

@Grim Matchstick Do you think that Sally saying that she'd vote me but thinks there's scum on my wagon but not figuring out who could be scum from there is scummy?

[Ochako Uraraka]

I don't have time to post more but I will when I get back on.

[Olivier]

37 minutes ago, Cala Maria said:

@Grim Matchstick Do you think that Sally saying that she'd vote me but thinks there's scum on my wagon but not figuring out who could be scum from there is scummy?

That's pretty scummy yeah

Do you disagree with my bvbb read idr what you've said about them and I cba to read

 

[Kamina]

Argh, I'm sorry. I thought I'd be feeling better by today, but today was a long day and I was feeling too unwell to go to my class this evening. Getting a headache, so I won't be as active as I wanted to be. Will still participate as much as I can, though.

Guess I must have missed that post where Rumor says they're from offsite. I could've sworn that they were scum!Manix; I suppose that's one line of assumption I can drop. I mean ... even considering the offsite thing I still feel like their scum hunting is a bit weak, and I'm still iffy on how their only major read is Maria, so I'm still not entirely happy with this slot. Rumor, if you are convinced that Maria is scum, then who would her most likely scum buddies be?

Dammit.

##Unvote

I know I said that I felt like there was one scum between Maria and Rumor, but I was leaning more towards it being Rumor. I'm also aware that people who are playing their first game on SF sometimes come off as scummy because of the difference in play styles (I had that same issue when I first started out), so I really should reread their interactions again. I don't think Maria is clean, but I'm also put off by the wagon that accumulated so fast on them and I'm just thinking "maybe there's something I'm missing". I don't want to vote here just yet.

... That said, here's a question. Do you think Rumor is still scum? Do you think Hilda is still scum? And if you think both are scum, do you think they make sense as a scum team together?

##Vote: Sally Stageplay

Stated my thoughts on her play already, those posts should be easily findable by going directly to this account's content, so don't make me repeat them right now. I feel better about this than Maria. Also, paranoid thoughts down below; I have absolutely nothing to support this and it's all wild speculation but will post it down below in case anyone gives a shit:

I just had a thought that maybe their insistence on Captain being a stronger town read due to no-kill night is because they were blocked on the night kill, so they picked a player that was universally seen as townie to throw out the idea that the kill was stopped by a doctor and not a role blocker? I mean ... there's absolutely no evidence at all to suggest either of those roles exist, no-kill could've just as easily been due to scum idling or a BPV, but just ... it just seems like a weird insistence. But again, this is just me being paranoid.

Baroness's frustration feels genuine, I can't say I really have too much of a problem with their reads even if I don't 100% agree with all of them. There's this feeling in the back of my mind that it's easier to look "good" the less you banter with people "in-the-moment" because catch-up posts can be more easily made and edited, but ... I don't have anything solid to back up that feeling.

[Aizen]

Day 2.4 - Votals
Cala Maria (4): Cagney Carnation, Rumor Honeybottoms, Hilda Berg, Baroness Von Bon Bon
Sally Stageplay (4): Captain Brineybeard, Werner Werman, Dr. Kahl, Beppi The Clown
Rumor Honeybottoms (2): Wally Warbles, Sally Stageplay
Baroness Von Bon Bon (1): Grim Matchstick
Hilda Berg (1): Cala Maria
Not Voting (0): None!

You have 20 hours and 31 minutes left in the day. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

[Kamina]

I was writing a post and then I lost it. Sigh.

Oh well, it's not a big deal. I just wanted to talk about some people I haven't mentioned at all.

Cagney, Kahl, Werner, and Brineybeard: Currently I have no issues with these guys. Their posts just seem to be towny and nothing really jumps out at me. Yeah, I may not agree with everything they have to say or all of their reads, but I can at least see where they're coming from.

Hilda: I mean, nothing really stands out as scummy right now, I'm not just wholly convinced they're town either. While I have no issue with Hilda voting Maria for her case on them, as Maria's case is pretty bad, I do have to wonder (taking into consideration the scuffle with me on D1) if the primary thing that catches their attention is cases on themselves. The main thing that bothers me is that Hilda had pretty much no opinion on Maria before. Was there anything about Maria you disliked before they made their case on you, Hilda?

Wally: ... I'm really sorry, I know you exist and I know you're a player in the game. I just have no opinion of you because it took me until the end of D1 to realize you were a player, and I just haven't really been able to get a feel for what you posted on D2. I know this is unsatisfactory and I'll try to have an opinion on you soon.

[Aizen]

Rumor Honeybottoms has been prodded.

[C. C.]

mafia sucks

@cala- it's not that her posts are super amazing but newer players have trouble looking town regardless of their alignment so it's tough to be confident in a scumread on a new player. Also, like I said earlier, Michelaar's frustration when he was scum was a lot more passive aggressive, whereas Hilda is more directly confronting people and I don't think that's something newbscum would do.

@wally- I don't think I mixed anything up? Also I did read and note the fact that her case on Cala is based on one post and that's IMO the most suspicious thing about her.

@baroness- feels like in general with your post it's so stream of consciousness that it focuses on specific posts rather than people as a whole so especially for the people with more posts it doesn't feel like you're accurately representing their posts. for example there are some suspicious things about Wally but it feels like the stuff you're talking about is mostly not true? not sure exactly what post you're talking about where you say he's not scumhunting. that might be true for one specific post but I wouldn't characterize his d2 play on the whole as being low on scumhunting. he's kind of tunneled on rumor, yeah, but he is genuinely breaking down her posts and stuff.

@grim- read sally. she's tied for the biggest wagon with <24 hours left. "i'm too lazy" isn't an excuse. she doesn't even have that many posts.

super tired and I still have a couple hours of work to do tonight so I'll post tomorrow sorry guys. I'll be around for most of the day. more people should vote sally.