guedesbrawl Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 14 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said: A better roster and no clones for starters. If Hyrule Warriors can feature several versions of Link that play differently and have different movesets, then there's no excuse for clones to exist. Clones mean more characcters, which means more people are pleased by seing their favorite characters in the game and interacting with the rest of the cast. This is not rocket science. It's also worth noting that HW used the other kind of clone: model clones. Link's model and voice lines and interactions with the cast (all SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than anyone's from FEW) are always the same no matter his moveset. Lastly, Zelda is a bigger franchise. Of course they'd give KT and OF a bigger budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Ashera Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 10 hours ago, Arthur97 said: With Link, there was Toon Link and Young Link meaning that, yes, there was more than one Link. Technically those Link's were different characters, being HW Link, MM Link, and WW Link. The reason Young Link had a different moveset was due to TK wanting to keep his moveset the same as Fierce Deity Link, which was essentially OoT Link with the Biggoron Sword (which is why Young Link should have wielded his game's two handed sword, the Great Fairy Sword, rather then an enlarged Kokiri Sword). Toon Link on the other hand was modeled off of how Link fought in the Wind Waker which differed from how he fought in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Super Smash Bros. which the main Link was based around. For Fire Emblem Warriors, there's really not a lot of attacks and moves to base a moveset around, just hit, follow up, critical, and occasionally finishers or pair up attacks. Even then, most characters share those animations. Due to this, I'm fine with clones. Beyond that, it helps bring us the roster size a Fire Emblem title requires while also giving us options. For example, I love Chrom's moveset, but I like Lucina more, so I can enjoy his moveset but still play as Lucina. As another example, I don't really care for Takumi or Leo, but I can enjoy their movesets as Sakura and Elise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deva Ashera said: Technically those Link's were different characters, being HW Link, MM Link, and WW Link. The reason Young Link had a different moveset was due to TK wanting to keep his moveset the same as Fierce Deity Link, which was essentially OoT Link with the Biggoron Sword (which is why Young Link should have wielded his game's two handed sword, the Great Fairy Sword, rather then an enlarged Kokiri Sword). Toon Link on the other hand was modeled off of how Link fought in the Wind Waker which differed from how he fought in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Super Smash Bros. which the main Link was based around. For Fire Emblem Warriors, there's really not a lot of attacks and moves to base a moveset around, just hit, follow up, critical, and occasionally finishers or pair up attacks. Even then, most characters share those animations. Due to this, I'm fine with clones. Beyond that, it helps bring us the roster size a Fire Emblem title requires while also giving us options. For example, I love Chrom's moveset, but I like Lucina more, so I can enjoy his moveset but still play as Lucina. As another example, I don't really care for Takumi or Leo, but I can enjoy their movesets as Sakura and Elise. The point was, he said it was one Link that used different weapons, not multiple Links. Yes, the main Link had a lot of weapons, but there were the other two as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folt Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Incidentally, I'm fine with the prf weapons maybe having a bonus slayer and maybe not: Caeda, Tiki, Topsy-Turvy Archers, and other Archers to a lesser extent than the TT ones are the ones who do want the slayer that comes with their weapon. The rest would have really liked to exchange their slayer for another because it bars them from their best slayer combo which can sometimes not be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulWeaver Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Arthur97 said: The point was, he said it was one Link that used different weapons, not multiple Links. Yes, the main Link had a lot of weapons, but there were the other two as well. And you missed my point - however many variations of Link there are, there's still only one guy allowed to use any given variation of Link. If I want to use Spinjitzu the Spinner but he wants to use the Gauntlets, you can't just say 'well, there's two other Links, go play one of those' because neither of them have movesets that work even remotely similar to how the Spinner and Gauntlets work. This is less of a problem with younger players because for the most part they don't care which Link or Zelda they're playing, they just want to be Link or Zelda, but the rest of us get screwed. While clone movesets are annoying, they still fix that problem. Do I wish there were multiple moveset options for an individual character? Yes, I think Sakura should be wielding a Bow differently from Niles and Anna, and the Pegasus Knights have to have incorporated their own individual flares into their fighting styles, but in the end I'm not making the calls, so I make do with what I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said: And you missed my point - however many variations of Link there are, there's still only one guy allowed to use any given variation of Link. If I want to use Spinjitzu the Spinner but he wants to use the Gauntlets, you can't just say 'well, there's two other Links, go play one of those' because neither of them have movesets that work even remotely similar to how the Spinner and Gauntlets work. This is less of a problem with younger players because for the most part they don't care which Link or Zelda they're playing, they just want to be Link or Zelda, but the rest of us get screwed. While clone movesets are annoying, they still fix that problem. Do I wish there were multiple moveset options for an individual character? Yes, I think Sakura should be wielding a Bow differently from Niles and Anna, and the Pegasus Knights have to have incorporated their own individual flares into their fighting styles, but in the end I'm not making the calls, so I make do with what I get. Ah. I mean, the different skins for Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf alleviate that, but I get where you're coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Ashera Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, Arthur97 said: Ah. I mean, the different skins for Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf alleviate that, but I get where you're coming from. No they don't, you can still only have one 'Link' chosen, costumes don't change that. The example was that if they wanted to use the Spinner and someone else wanted to use Gauntlets, only one person got to since only one person could play as Link regardless of which costume was chosen. On a similar note, my friend and I both love Lyn's moveset but only one of us can play as her, since Navarre is a clone of her, that is no longer an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexualbeard Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) I want an easier way to save between missions. Maybe a faster event feed thing in battles. Mine is consistently do far behind that it's worthless. Would also be nice if you could dodge out of more moves to cancel them. Hyrule Warriors seems to have a lot more dodge cancellable moves than FE:W does. Edited March 6, 2018 by Homosexualbeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPerson0 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Etheus said: Save convoy/camp changes immediately, rather than after completing the next mission. No thanks. You can easily back out to the title screen if you want to save. I like that it doesn't save changes immediately, because if you Appraise the weapon, write down somewhere what it is, then manually close the game, you can go back in and see that it was never appraised, which would save you gold. Edited March 6, 2018 by MrPerson0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, SoulWeaver said: The issue with Hyrule Warriors was that it wasn't actually several versions of Link, just different weapons the one Link could choose from. Lets see about that shall we? We have Hyrule Warriors Link (who uses the Hylian Sword, Magic Rod, Great Fairy, Gauntlets, Master Sword, Epona and Spinner weapons), Young Link (who uses Mask weapons) and Toon Link (who uses the Light Sword and Sand Rod weapons), all of which have different movesets and play differently from each other, despite all being Link. So I think you'll find I was right all along! Edited March 6, 2018 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 17 hours ago, Anacybele said: No Elincia? Why? She has to be in the Tellius cast since she's a main character there. Besides, she'd have a unique niche as a sword flier and flying healer. Well she could be a DLC or character replacement for Sanaki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 58 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said: No thanks. You can easily back out to the title screen if you want to save. I like that it doesn't save changes immediately, because if you Appraise the weapon, write down somewhere what it is, then manually close the game, you can go back in and see that it was never appraised, which would save you gold. That behavior isn't intended though. It's essentially an exploit, and certainly not an argument for keeping things as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPerson0 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Etheus said: That behavior isn't intended though. It's essentially an exploit, and certainly not an argument for keeping things as is. It was a thing in Hyrule Warriors as well from what I heard. KT could have easily fixed it, but they decided not to. If not, then eh, would be neat if they kept it in the sequel. And as I said, you can easily back out to the title screen and go back in seconds (Switch version at least) in order to force a save, so it's a non-issue. Edited March 6, 2018 by MrPerson0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said: It was a thing in Hyrule Warriors as well from what I heard. KT could have easily fixed it, but they decided not to. If not, then eh, would be neat if they kept it in the sequel. And as I said, you can easily back out to the title screen and go back in seconds (Switch version at least) in order to force a save, so it's a non-issue. If you want to keep weird save scum exploits then instead request the ability to turn off auto saving. In the meantime, asking for more sensible auto saves is reasonable in a game where the player has no choice, like FEW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPerson0 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Glennstavos said: In the meantime, asking for more sensible auto saves is reasonable in a game where the player has no choice, like FEW. But...backing out to the title screen is a very quick and easy way for people to force a save. I believe the more people know about this, the less they would care about auto save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Erren said: Well she could be a DLC or character replacement for Sanaki. Nah, she's a main character, so Elincia ought to be in the base game, not DLC. Mia and Nephenee ought to be DLC since they're more minor, irrelevant, but popular characters. Edited March 6, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Nah, she's a main character, so Elincia ought to be in the base game, not DLC. Mia and Nephenee ought to be DLC since they're more minor, irrelevant, but popular characters. Elincia is plot important, but she's essentially a plot device moreso than a character throughout the first game. If we're talking about Radiant Dawn, then yes, she's a main character. Certainly moreso than Sanaki either way. I would consider Micaiah to be a higher priority than Elincia, but this isn't necessarily a zero sum game. We could see both. (I personally want to see Ike, Soren, Boyd, Micaiah, Elincia, Volke, Nasir, Tibarn, and Naesala as core Tellius characters with Nephenee, Ranulf, and Shinon as DLC.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Deva Ashera said: No they don't, you can still only have one 'Link' chosen, costumes don't change that. The example was that if they wanted to use the Spinner and someone else wanted to use Gauntlets, only one person got to since only one person could play as Link regardless of which costume was chosen. On a similar note, my friend and I both love Lyn's moveset but only one of us can play as her, since Navarre is a clone of her, that is no longer an issue. Okay...guess we were still not on the same track. 28 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said: But...backing out to the title screen is a very quick and easy way for people to force a save. I believe the more people know about this, the less they would care about auto save. But how many people even know about that? I have a lot of play time in the game and I only relatively recently (maybe about at month give or take) found out about it. Besides, should you really have to back out to the home menu just to save? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Etheus said: Elincia is plot important, but she's essentially a plot device moreso than a character throughout the first game. If we're talking about Radiant Dawn, then yes, she's a main character. Certainly moreso than Sanaki either way. I would consider Micaiah to be a higher priority than Elincia, but this isn't necessarily a zero sum game. We could see both. (I personally want to see Ike, Soren, Boyd, Micaiah, Elincia, Volke, Nasir, Tibarn, and Naesala as core Tellius characters with Nephenee, Ranulf, and Shinon as DLC.) I think Micaiah and Elincia ought to be equal priority. Elincia is a main character in PoR (I don't think not being playable until late should hurt her status as a main character) and partly a main character in RD while Micaiah is a lord character in RD. So both have equal importance in Tellius overall. I'd love to see Boyd, Tibarn, Ranulf, and Shinon too though, yeah! Edited March 6, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Anacybele said: I think Micaiah and Elincia ought to be equal priority. Elincia is a main character in PoR (I don't think not being playable until late should hurt her status as a main character) and partly a main character in RD while Micaiah is a lord character in RD. So both have equal importance in Tellius overall. I'd love to see Boyd, Tibarn, Ranulf, and Shinon too though, yeah! Fair enough, though I think that Elincia's playable status is actually a reflection of her character arc. I say that she spends most of PoR as a plot device because she essentially has no agency until that point, relying on Ike and the Greil Mercenaries to lead and act in her stead. When she joins the party, she expresses a desire to fight and shape the war herself, no longer content to take a backseat. It's a huge character moment that goes beyond simply being able to deploy her. Radiant Dawn Elincia is when we see her fully come into her own as a political and military leader. It isn't an insult when I say that she was a plot device for most of PoR. In her case, quite the opposite is true. It's part of her character arc. She's initially helpless and then decides to seize agency in a big way. She isn't initially strong, but her potential is immediately clear and reflected in gameplay in her unique prf weapon and value as a flying healer. By the time of Radiant Dawn, she's a powerhouse in her own right through years of work. It feels believable, and it makes her one of the most compelling lords in the series. She's a rare perfect union of gameplay and character arc working in tandem to tell a story. Edited March 7, 2018 by Etheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Well, yeah, but let me say this: Frederick was an in game character and he was barely important. So was Lissa, Cordelia, Caeda... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Erren said: Well, yeah, but let me say this: Frederick was an in game character and he was barely important. So was Lissa, Cordelia, Caeda... Frederick and Lissa are close to Chrom who is the main character though. They're the first three characters you meet in Awakening besides Robin. And it'd simply be out of Frederick's character not to be with his lord and lady. :P In the same sense, I'd say Soren and Titania would make sense appearing alongside Ike as Tellius reps in an FEW2. They're close to him. And Cordelia is really popular. 44 minutes ago, Etheus said: Fair enough, though I think that Elincia's playable status is actually a reflection of her character arc. I say that she spends most of PoR as a plot device because she essentially has no agency until that point, relying on Ike and the Greil Mercenaries to lead and act in her stead. When she joins the party, she expresses a desire to fight and shape the war herself, no longer content to take a backseat. It's a huge character moment that goes beyond simply being able to deploy her. Radiant Dawn Elincia is when we see her fully come into her own as a political and military leader. It isn't an insult when I say that she was a plot device for most of PoR. In her case, quite the opposite is true. It's part of her character arc. She's initially helpless and then decides to seize agency in a big way. She isn't initially strong, but her potential is immediately clear and reflected in gameplay in her unique prf weapon and value as a flying healer. By the time of Radiant Dawn, she's a powerhouse in her own right through years of work. It feels believable, and it makes her one of the most compelling lords in the series. She's a rare perfect union of gameplay and character arc working in tandem to tell a story. Yeah, that's fair. That's why I like Elincia so much, she's awesome as a character and in RD, awesome gameplay-wise too! Edited March 7, 2018 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Druid Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 More maps? Once you beat the game, you notice how there isn't that many different maps. I would've love to see more maps inspired by FE games. The Tellius series probably has the easiest maps to convert to do this: All endgames, The Bridge, the defense maps, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulWeaver Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 6 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said: Lets see about that shall we? We have Hyrule Warriors Link (who uses the Hylian Sword, Magic Rod, Great Fairy, Gauntlets, Master Sword, Epona and Spinner weapons), Young Link (who uses Mask weapons) and Toon Link (who uses the Light Sword and Sand Rod weapons), all of which have different movesets and play differently from each other, despite all being Link. So I think you'll find I was right all along! Um... On March 5, 2018 at 8:12 PM, SoulWeaver said: If my cousin and I both wanted to be Zelda, one of us would have to be content with Sheik or Toon Zelda, who both have completely different movesets that are both nothing at all like Zelda's Rapier style that I actually want to play but have to give up on because a 6-year-old thinks the Dominion Rod statues are hilarious 10 hours ago, SoulWeaver said: And you missed my point - however many variations of Link there are, there's still only one guy allowed to use any given variation of Link. If I want to use Spinjitzu the Spinner but he wants to use the Gauntlets, you can't just say 'well, there's two other Links, go play one of those' because neither of them have movesets that work even remotely similar to how the Spinner and Gauntlets work. This is less of a problem with younger players because for the most part they don't care which Link or Zelda they're playing, they just want to be Link or Zelda, but the rest of us get screwed. While clone movesets are annoying, they still fix that problem. Do I wish there were multiple moveset options for an individual character? Yes, I think Sakura should be wielding a Bow differently from Niles and Anna, and the Pegasus Knights have to have incorporated their own individual flares into their fighting styles, but in the end I'm not making the calls, so I make do with what I get. My point is that if I really want to use a specific moveset that only Link has(in this case the Spinner, which is my third favorite moveset in the game behind Volga's Spear and Zelda's Rapier), but the person playing with me has the same idea(in this case the Gauntlets, the moveset my cousins love the most out of Link's arsenal), one of us has to get shafted. Looking at what you initially said... On March 5, 2018 at 5:55 PM, NinjaMonkey said: If Hyrule Warriors can feature several versions of Link that play differently and have different movesets, then there's no excuse for clones to exist. …this remains incorrect - there is an excuse for clones, so that players can use movesets they enjoy without having to worry about shafting the other guy, in addition to saving time, effort, and money for the devs. I don't have to worry about whether my friends or cousins really like to be an Archer because they think Takumi looks boss or a Pegasus Knight because they have a crush on Caeda, as I can just pick Sakura or Cordelia and get the same moveset. You still run into issues of people wanting to be specific characters(like when everyone wants to be Marth), but that's actually something Hyrule Warriors didn't completely fix at all - what if my friend hated Wind Waker and doesn't like Young Link? I certainly don't want to be Toon Link or Young Link for various reasons, but if we're both set on being regular Link then one of us is going to end up unhappy with the character we're forced to use. At least with Fire Emblem Warriors, we can both play Marth's moveset, which while not the perfect solution is still something, or one of us can use Masked Lucina, which is technically the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Ashera Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just as an aside, I was annoyed in Hyrule Warriors due to Lana taking the moveset I felt would have been perfect for Saria were she used in the future, the Deku Stick. I feel like clones are fine as long as the moveset is still fitting, which it by and large is in Fire Emblem Warriors. No characters feel like they are doing things they wouldn't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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