Character-specific promotions

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, Michelaar said:

Remember Miranda? Yeah neither do I, because she wasn't worth using because she had to promote to Mage Knight.

Miranda's problems aren't her promotion. It's that she joins late without Elite. Miranda as a Mage Knight is really good if you choose to use her, since she has some of the best growths in the game and good skills.

It's not like being a Mage Knight hurts Olwen or Ilyos.

[Michelaar]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Miranda's problems aren't her promotion. It's that she joins late without Elite. Miranda as a Mage Knight is really good if you choose to use her, since she has some of the best growths in the game and good skills.

It's not like being a Mage Knight hurts Olwen or Ilyos.

I honestly don't care. If she promoted into sage she would be a lot better, not only because of the promotion gains but also because Sage suits her better as a unit in general.

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I honestly don't care. If she promoted into sage she would be a lot better, not only because of the promotion gains but also because Sage suits her better as a unit in general.

Here's a different question:

Would her promoting to sage actually make you use her?

Sage is better, but again, Olwen and Ilyos aren't invalidated by the existence of the FIVE Sages already in the game. And in case I didn't emphasize this enough, this game has FIVE Sages. Sara DOES promote to Sage and joins around the same time as Miranda, and even she's arguably not super worth using, and she has Elite, because you already potentially have three, and Ced is right around the corner. Miranda being a Mage Knight and not a Sage actually gives her something special, and that +1 move might be more appealing than what having another Sage would provide to people at that point.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Slumber

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I honestly don't care. If she promoted into sage she would be a lot better, not only because of the promotion gains but also because Sage suits her better as a unit in general.

Whats your opinion on Donnel promoting to classes that don't use lances?

[UNLEASH IT]

Even if she was a sage, Sleuf is better than Miranda tbh. A rank staves>anything Miranda is bringing to the table

Edited April 30, 2018 by UNLEASH IT

[Corrobin]

A few ideas for atypical promotions I had:

Cleric -> Sage/Druid

Archer -> Warrior

Pirate -> Hero

Monk -> FE8 Valkyrie

[ping]

15 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Pirate -> Hero

This would have been fitting for Darros, for example. After all, he wants to leave his pirating ways behind. Of course, it's possible to go that exact promotion path, but since it's just a part of the generic Male B Set, it doesn't feel as personal.

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Yes, that too. 

Donnel's caps don't favor the classes he has either. For reference, he can only be: a Hero, Warrior, or Bow Knight. Nothing else.

Thanks for clearing that up for me :)

--

On a pure gameplay level, I don't think that an individual promotion choice would have more screw up potential than the established system(s). It's not like classes are balanced anyway - being locked into the Knight line has always been a disadvantage (units like Oswin are good despite, not because of, being a knight), while the option to go flyer is always beneficial, like for Cecile in NMotE, or Jagen (FE11) and Arran (FE12), or cavaliers in FE11 after promotion (who unlike myrms and archers have a lance rank to bring with them).

Sure, it'd suck if all of one unit's promotional options are shite, but how would it be intrinsic to this hypothetical system? If anything, it would be easier to make units more unique by giving units with the same base class different options down the line.

[Corrobin]

Cleric/Troubadour -> Whatever the name of the Peg Knight with Staves is

Mercenary -> Swordmaster

Fighter -> Berserker

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Cysx said:

Brings her more movement and canto.

Is "they'll probably mess it up" really a good reason? Technically that goes for anything, so we might as well be against them making more Fire Emblem games. This in particular doesn't seem any harder to balance than what we've had in the past few entries. Plus it's not like it's actually happening.

Yes, because to be blunt, I already have more than enough reason to doubt IS's competence. I don't need them giving me more reasons to not trust them. And I see character specific promotions as nothing but a huge unbalancing gimmick that would add nothing to the game.

[Von Ithipathachai]

7 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Fighter -> Berserker

Didn't Fates have Berserker as a promotion branch for all Fighters?

[Emperor Hardin]

3 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Didn't Fates have Berserker as a promotion branch for all Fighters?

That was kind of an odd case as Brigand had been temporarily merged into Fighter for the game, most noticeable with the Fighter NPCs.

[Corrobin]

2 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

In one of the most popular hacks for Thracia 776, Marty promotes to Berserker, for instance.

Where can I find this hack?

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Where can I find this hack?

Its on this website, the Blume Patch I believe its called.

It added branch promotions, using a unused promotion items.

One of my favorite elements is that Lance/Axe Knights get to keep their weapons when dismounting.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Corrobin]

Anyway...

Levant, Michelaar, Machua and Miranda are perfectly fine units. Machua's Hero promotion offsets her low Strength and Defense and she has enough Speed to mitigate Axe weight. Miranda has sky-high Magic and Speed and she became an MVP in one of my playthroughs, but you sort of missed something.

Asbel's the one with the unorthodox promotion, not Miranda. Asbel's the anomaly in terms of promotions, Miranda is following the standard.

[Emperor Hardin]

9 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Anyway...

Levant, Michelaar, Machua and Miranda are perfectly fine units. Machua's Hero promotion offsets her low Strength and Defense and she has enough Speed to mitigate Axe weight. Miranda has sky-high Magic and Speed and she became an MVP in one of my playthroughs, but you sort of missed something.

Asbel's the one with the unorthodox promotion, not Miranda. Asbel's the anomaly in terms of promotions, Miranda is following the standard.

I've been wondering have you ever played Tearring Saga? Any thought on how the game handles character promotions?

An interesting example from the game, I think, is two Armor Knights. One gets a movement growth and promotes to General, the other has no movement growth and promotes to Iron Knight, which is a mounted Armored unit.

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Masquerade]

I like fates' approach:

The traditional master seal for basic promotions

and the heart seal for all their soul searching needs

That way they don't have a second seal to jump into all the classes under the sun, but have diversity.

[Corrobin]

Of course, this is assuming that we go back to single promotions choices, pre-FE8.

[Masquerade]

10 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Of course, this is assuming that we go back to single promotions choices, pre-FE8.

Darn it, why can't my white-supremacy spread to FE (it's a joke don't kill me)

I would like it with SOME characters as long as they don't change like, a merc to a mage and become benched trash.

However, my anxiety-filled self needs the reliability of the current system, for the majority of characters. 

[Michelaar]

9 hours ago, Slumber said:

Here's a different question:

Would her promoting to sage actually make you use her?

Sage is better, but again, Olwen and Ilyos aren't invalidated by the existence of the FIVE Sages already in the game. And in case I didn't emphasize this enough, this game has FIVE Sages. Sara DOES promote to Sage and joins around the same time as Miranda, and even she's arguably not super worth using, and she has Elite, because you already potentially have three, and Ced is right around the corner. Miranda being a Mage Knight and not a Sage actually gives her something special, and that +1 move might be more appealing than what having another Sage would provide to people at that point.

Yes exactly! Character and design wise, I really like Miranda, and I would use her over any other sage. It doesnt really matter at all to me that there are 5 sages in the game.

9 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Whats your opinion on Donnel promoting to classes that don't use lances?

Quite a shame.

[Corrobin]

I notice that you haven't said anything about Machua. Why is that?

[Shadow Mir]

15 hours ago, Corrobin said:

Anyway...

Levant, Michelaar, Machua and Miranda are perfectly fine units. Machua's Hero promotion offsets her low Strength and Defense and she has enough Speed to mitigate Axe weight. Miranda has sky-high Magic and Speed and she became an MVP in one of my playthroughs, but you sort of missed something.

Asbel's the one with the unorthodox promotion, not Miranda. Asbel's the anomaly in terms of promotions, Miranda is following the standard.

...and I should care why??? As for Machua, axe access doesn't do her any favors when she can only really use the lightest axes without losing too much AS to the point where it ain't worth it. And the weapon triangle bonus is only +5 hit, which does not help much. Regarding Miranda, all Mage Knight gives her is 1 extra move over Sage - can you say "losing trade"??? Because that's what it is, in a nutshell. Sword access does nothing for her at all, pretty much. So I see this as little more than a half-assed attempt to spin an obviously questionable design choice into a positive.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Corrobin]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

...and I should care why??? As for Machua, axe access doesn't do her any favors when she can only really use the lightest axes without losing too much AS to the point where it ain't worth it. And the weapon triangle bonus is only +5 hit, which does not help much. Regarding Miranda, all Mage Knight gives her is 1 extra move over Sage - can you say "losing trade"??? Because that's what it is, in a nutshell. Sword access does nothing for her at all, pretty much. So I see this as little more than a half-assed attempt to spin an obviously questionable design choice into a positive.

Magic swords tho

[Shadow Mir]

7 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Magic swords tho

Because it's not like the rate of weapon exp gain is glacial and she's going to be doing next to no damage with swords. Oh wait, it is. The magic swords are all B rank, and she starts with a lousy D. Have fun with that!

Edited May 1, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Corrobin]

Miranda is hardly the worst unit in the game (that honor is split between Marty (only good for Capturing with his Build) and Shanam (literally only good for buying stuff)). She's not IMPOSSIBLE to train, and, like I said, she has sky-high Magic and Speed which means she'll do plenty of damage and tanks magic like no-one else, plus with Wrath she can tank a mage then blow them away with a crazy-powerful counterattack.

And she recruits Conomore who's pretty good and gives her Support bonuses.

 

[Shadow Mir]

38 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Miranda is hardly the worst unit in the game (that honor is split between Marty (only good for Capturing with his Build) and Shanam (literally only good for buying stuff)). She's not IMPOSSIBLE to train, and, like I said, she has sky-high Magic and Speed which means she'll do plenty of damage and tanks magic like no-one else, plus with Wrath she can tank a mage then blow them away with a crazy-powerful counterattack.

And she recruits Conomore who's pretty good and gives her Support bonuses.

She might not be the worst unit in the game, but at the same time, if I train her, I'm most likely to feel I was cheated, gypped, bamboozled, etc. because Mage Knight is just worse off relative to Sage. And you're only reinforcing my point that swords on her is pointless.