Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

Bart wasn't on everyone's player list as a scum read for the entire game, some people felt iffy/off on him during Day 1 but pretty much everyone felt worse WRT other people.

Bart is also KNOWN to be mislynched a lot.

if bart is known to be mislynched a lot, wouldn't him being utr here raise red flags for you?

[Athena_57]

5 minutes ago, Orihime said:

I don't really consider 2 votes a "wagon" at this point plus the threat of being lynched doesn't really seem there as with Bart if 3 people voted it or 4 etc. I could see that as a counter wagon but 2 votes can be votes just sitting somewhere it doesn't really scream lynchable to me. Perhaps we have different thoughts on that though 

Bart only has like 3 though and had 2 for a long time? And I was reading the thread as sort of okay with a Eury lynch for the most part? KTS defended them, others were okay with it iirc?

Votes overall have been extremely slow with half the town being gone, I don't think a slot not taking off beyond 2/3 supporters is that surprising.

3 minutes ago, Orihime said:

Scum's job is to take control of the game and look good doing it getting results they want this is mafia 101. When mafia lose that control factor and town start becoming town cores blocking up and stuff like that it's when scum lose the game. The point I'm trying to make is if bart is sr by all over the playerlist why weren't they lynched d1 d2 etc etc either get it over with now or don't touch the slot perhaps scum are sitting back and letting bart get ml'd and then the heat will go on the people scum reading him? That's the answer I've come to at the moment 

First line is, whilst correct, completely irrelevant here? Wtf is that even doing in this paragraph. They weren't lynched earlier because other slots looked worse day 1, they looked good for being off of Evan wagon D2 and they only really dropped off day 2?

 

Agreeing Ice catchup is bad, but like, isn't this exactly what we've come to expect from this slot? How are people surprised/acting like it gives new insights?

 

Jaybee's post looked good at first glance? Haven't searched it for scum intent, but most stuff was agreeable imo.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Bart wasn't on everyone's player list as a scum read for the entire game, some people felt iffy/off on him during Day 1 but pretty much everyone felt worse WRT other people.

Bart is also KNOWN to be mislynched a lot.

Interesting so is it mostly a meta read if Bart is "mislynched a lot" (I think that's a silly factor but it's a factor none the less) Like what I got from the athena case was Bart was basically coasting and parroting popular reads

[Athena_57]

Wow, that's a lot of question marks I just used

[Killthestory]

2 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

It shows he's reading the game which is like more than half the playerlist can say. Okay maybe I overreacted saying I'd never lynch him but I thought he asked good questions, even if I don't agree with all the conclusions and he didn't really do anything with them. I take it you dislike his push on you? I guess I'd ask where his priorities are.

That reminds me, I forgot to address this. @Jaybee I only threw that last minute KTS/Refa connection out there because I was paranoid and was running out of time. I didn't really have any issues with him before that.

well, he asks questions to no one in particular that no one has answered, himself included, and simply reading the game is a requirement for all alignments. his conclusions don't really get anywhere, he doesn't take any firm stances, and he's never pushed any said conclusions at all throughout the course of this game. my man has been doing one thing and one thing well: surviving.

[Conqueror]

Yeah I don't think Ice Sage's catchup post looked good. The Bart and Refa reads show pretty much no original thought, I dunno what he likes about the Bart case or why he reads Refa so town. And he doesn't really post anything unless he's responding to questions from people, which is just super passive. I dunno if that makes him scum though LOL, but it's more probably from newb!scum who doesn't want to get their feet wet.

[Shinori]

My biggest argument for Town!Refa is the fact that I NEVER do the shit I did on D2.  That's like the first time I've EVER pulled some crazy ass gambit like that I think.

Knowing this I feel like Scum!Refa would believe in what I said 100% and doesn't react the way he did.  This may not be enough to convince most people but it was enough for me to take him off my current lynch pool.  Considering I wanted him dead for the entire game before that I fele this should say something as well.

[Killthestory]

hot take: all of the people posting right now are town

[Athena_57]

we did it boys

[Conqueror]

3 minutes ago, Orihime said:

In my notes I've had Refa as "towny">scummy>more scummy>townyish>null  it's gone all over the place my main point for Refa town is I feel like his play isn't doing him any favors as scum and he'd try to change it up a little like it's not getting him out of peoples cross hairs but the style of play is consistent 

I get that, it's just that I've seen so many scum players try to pull something similar after imploding or getting a lot of heat. I get that my style of casing is a bit oppressive (it's something that I've been trying to work on, but I haven't played in a while anyway) but the way Refa just ran off doesn't feel genuine to me, like he was trying to avoid answering my points (and this is after he tried to call me out for "ignoring points in the argument that he won" or something similar.

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

if bart is known to be mislynched a lot, wouldn't him being utr here raise red flags for you?

I don't think he was Ultra town read.  I just thought he wasn't instantly in the scum pile.  Looking back at his ISO there is less there than I thought there would be and I feel I need to try and compare this to his last games but overall I think I'm down for a bart lynch.  I'm thinking he might be playing completely different compared to the past two games I remember him being in.  Those being EO3(he was a town vig and I remember him being way more active and in the front) and IDNSFMM3 where he was misslynched day 1 in that game he was also WAY more active I feel.

2 minutes ago, Orihime said:

Interesting so is it mostly a meta read if Bart is "mislynched a lot" (I think that's a silly factor but it's a factor none the less) Like what I got from the athena case was Bart was basically coasting and parroting popular reads

Him being known to be mislynched a lot was more or less why I just didn't pay too much attention to him myself during day 1. I felt like leaving him for a bit was way better because as town I think he's more proactive than he is currently.

[Bartozio]

Welp, with Marth being low on subs I'm going to try and at least low effort (instead of no effort) this until he finds them. I did ask for one at the start of this phase fwiw.

On 19-5-2018 at 1:46 PM, Conqueror said:

 @Bartozio Why'd you change your opinion on Athena so quickly, what convinced you? What's your current opinion on Refa?

I made part of the post in the train with no wifi, and the second part later (after I read your post). Basicly, I had time to think about it and was like: this is actually pretty weird as town and makes a lot of sense as scum.

I didn't really mean I was suddenly hard townreading Athena because of questioning Ice, it was a point in his favor. Athena had been a back and forth of small things for me. His rvs interaction with me felt townie, his play after feeling similar to his scum meta felt scummy (but with me not knowing his town meta, it's not a hard scumread), and then this felt townie again. All of this is just chalking up small point, and the wagon case was strong enough for me.

On 19-5-2018 at 2:21 PM, Conqueror said:

I guess just to comment on @athena_57's case since you were wondering what I found nitpicky. I don't think stuff like Bartozio attacking Evan looks that bad tbh, a lot of people were doing similar stuff and they're not all scum - was there something about the way he approached that that you think was off? You also don't need to point out every line where Bart had filler reads or posts - you can just point out in general where he isn't saying anything of importance. It does make your case more "complete" when you quote everything but IMO the readability suffers in terms of length and formatting. Also as an aside, summarizing Bart's day 2 as "literal nothing" would probably make Bart mad and get him to tunnel you on the chance the Bart is town. I think the thing that felt the most off to me about Bart's D2 isn't his absence but how quickly he warms up to the idea of Athena scum, with reasoning similar to mine. I don't think I was that convincing? Also the way Bart makes a point Randa being possibly town so the Evan wagon isn't that scummy, but as far as I can tell he never really wavered on the Randa slot being scum? So @Bartozio I want to know what you were thinking here 

I mean, I only brought it up because I thought lynching people on the Evan wagon for being scumbuddies was dumb without lynching Randa first. Why were you making such a big deal out of it?

As somewhat explained above, nothing about Athena made me feel conclusive about him, and this did.

14 hours ago, Killthestory said:

deepwolf is someone who is universally townread that has the potential to carry the wolves into endgame. a powerwolf is someone who is universally townread and controls lynch targets. they also have the potential to carry wolves into endgame.

difference between towny and deepwolf is that a deepwolf doesn't actually care about solving so long as the result sare them surviving. a townie is actually trying to find wolves.

as an aside, if any scumteam in any game has to bank on me not getting lynched, they're pretty desperate, lol.

responding to Athena's case is going to take some more time, so wanted to get this out of the way first.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Bart only has like 3 though and had 2 for a long time? And I was reading the thread as sort of okay with a Eury lynch for the most part? KTS defended them, others were okay with it iirc?

Votes overall have been extremely slow with half the town being gone, I don't think a slot not taking off beyond 2/3 supporters is that surprising.

First line is, whilst correct, completely irrelevant here? Wtf is that even doing in this paragraph. They weren't lynched earlier because other slots looked worse day 1, they looked good for being off of Evan wagon D2 and they only really dropped off day 2?

 

Agreeing Ice catchup is bad, but like, isn't this exactly what we've come to expect from this slot? How are people surprised/acting like it gives new insights?

 

Jaybee's post looked good at first glance? Haven't searched it for scum intent, but most stuff was agreeable imo.

I suppose if the game is rather slow you're correct on 2 votes/3 votes not making a huge impact.  If people were okay with an Eury lynch perhaps I'm reading the game state incorrectly and need to revisit it. I suppose Bart dying  would answer a lot of questions but I don't think it'd flip scum at the moment?
The main point I'm trying to make is if bart has been a popular sr with little chance of a counter wagon that slot feels more likely it'd be town

[Shinori]

I'm trying to use the script to load ISO's in IDNSFMM3....Oh god.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

I didn't mean to hit enter why is everything FREEZING is my comp trash or is this normal

[Conqueror]

4 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

well, he asks questions to no one in particular that no one has answered, himself included, and simply reading the game is a requirement for all alignments. his conclusions don't really get anywhere, he doesn't take any firm stances, and he's never pushed any said conclusions at all throughout the course of this game. my man has been doing one thing and one thing well: surviving.

Okay sure I can see that especially as he didn't post any conclusions at all, but I think he's asking good questions and exploring angles other people haven't. This is probably a bit of a meta read but last game his questions were god awful and he got vigged for them. I'm probably waiting more for the slot to post but I don't think it's scum.

[Killthestory]

honestly, that actually sounds kind of dope. if we work backward and institute a legendary village block, i think we can easily hit 2 to 3 wolves pretty effectively. we just have to do a little communication real quick.

village block: all active 5 posters rn, boyos.

as far as i'm concerned, that leaves.

2.Mackc2-->elemina

5.Ice Sage

8.Eurykins

10.baldrick

13.jb

14.refa

15.bartozio

like, 2, 3, or even all the wolves are here. i'm townreading baldrick and eury right now, and refa feels okay to me. that gives me jb, bart, ice, elemina.

as fun as it would be to say i nailed the entire scumteam, i've got to be wrong somewhere. i'm going to say that someone's really deep right off the bat from looking at that.

[Killthestory]

3 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Okay sure I can see that especially as he didn't post any conclusions at all, but I think he's asking good questions and exploring angles other people haven't. This is probably a bit of a meta read but last game his questions were god awful and he got vigged for them. I'm probably waiting more for the slot to post but I don't think it's scum.

he could be the town in what i'm poeing. i just have no idea where the deepwolf could be.

[Conqueror]

##Unvote

##Vote SB

Okay, I still think Refa is obvscum but apparently no one agrees with me which means there's the possibility I'm terribly wrong. But we can agree that if Refa is scum, SB is scum too, right? And a lot of people here think SB is scum on his own merits.

I want to try this out. I don't think I've liked SB's pushes today at all. The Eury push I felt was for really bizarre reasons, and him dropping it and jumping off so quickly makes me think it wasn't genuine since he didn't even wait for her to respond or answer questions at all.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

3 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

I get that, it's just that I've seen so many scum players try to pull something similar after imploding or getting a lot of heat. I get that my style of casing is a bit oppressive (it's something that I've been trying to work on, but I haven't played in a while anyway) but the way Refa just ran off doesn't feel genuine to me, like he was trying to avoid answering my points (and this is after he tried to call me out for "ignoring points in the argument that he won" or something similar.

Seems more like hypocritical town because if he did ignore you why would he run and do that? What does that help for scum him? Like the only thing I can think of is someone wanting to defend him for this exact reason but that's a really weird line to take as scum. Just pray someone defends you for doing something wacky? From what I've got from meta too Refa is this really good player too so why would he do this line of all things 

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I don't think he was Ultra town read.  I just thought he wasn't instantly in the scum pile.  Looking back at his ISO there is less there than I thought there would be and I feel I need to try and compare this to his last games but overall I think I'm down for a bart lynch.  I'm thinking he might be playing completely different compared to the past two games I remember him being in.  Those being EO3(he was a town vig and I remember him being way more active and in the front) and IDNSFMM3 where he was misslynched day 1 in that game he was also WAY more active I feel.

Him being known to be mislynched a lot was more or less why I just didn't pay too much attention to him myself during day 1. I felt like leaving him for a bit was way better because as town I think he's more proactive than he is currently.

Do you think him being mislynchable could be used as an excuse to keep him alive as scum?(Well duh yes it can) I guess a way I'm asking is do you think that's the case at hand or people are just sring him for wrong reasons 

[Athena_57]

6 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I didn't really mean I was suddenly hard townreading Athena because of questioning Ice, it was a point in his favor. Athena had been a back and forth of small things for me. His rvs interaction with me felt townie, his play after feeling similar to his scum meta felt scummy (but with me not knowing his town meta, it's not a hard scumread), and then this felt townie again. All of this is just chalking up small point, and the wagon case was strong enough for me.

Except my play here is nothing like my scumplay actually.

[Killthestory]

it's entirely possible that my townread on eury is way too flimsy as it stands, and me semiclearing them is a bad play. sb isn't fully gone from my mind, and orihime or whatever could just be faking the thought process to be reaching some of her... original conclusions. my only truly solid townreads are on shinori and athena, and a little bit somewhat on conqeuror.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

1 minute ago, Conqueror said:

##Unvote

##Vote SB

Okay, I still think Refa is obvscum but apparently no one agrees with me which means there's the possibility I'm terribly wrong. But we can agree that if Refa is scum, SB is scum too, right? And a lot of people here think SB is scum on his own merits.

I want to try this out. I don't think I've liked SB's pushes today at all. The Eury push I felt was for really bizarre reasons, and him dropping it and jumping off so quickly makes me think it wasn't genuine since he didn't even wait for her to respond or answer questions at all.

I would like to join you on this

##vote SB
Also KTS I'm elemina's slot if you didn't know 

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Conqueror said:

##Unvote

##Vote SB

Okay, I still think Refa is obvscum but apparently no one agrees with me which means there's the possibility I'm terribly wrong. But we can agree that if Refa is scum, SB is scum too, right? And a lot of people here think SB is scum on his own merits.

I want to try this out. I don't think I've liked SB's pushes today at all. The Eury push I felt was for really bizarre reasons, and him dropping it and jumping off so quickly makes me think it wasn't genuine since he didn't even wait for her to respond or answer questions at all.

no no no bart is the lynch today. i'm not hunting for any deepwolves yet when we've got wolves right in front of our eyes.

[Killthestory]

OH ORIHIME IS ELEMINA

WE MUST READJUST