Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Conqueror]

1 minute ago, Orihime said:

Seems more like hypocritical town because if he did ignore you why would he run and do that? What does that help for scum him? Like the only thing I can think of is someone wanting to defend him for this exact reason but that's a really weird line to take as scum. Just pray someone defends you for doing something wacky? From what I've got from meta too Refa is this really good player too so why would he do this line of all things 

Because he had no more answers to what I was saying and was genuinely stressed out. I know I was genuinely stressed out too to the point where I wanted to avoid the thread because having to reply to any more walls was going to give me an aneurysm. Well, I guess I can believe this point is NAI, maybe. I still want @Refa to answer my last question to him though.

[Bartozio]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

Except my play here is nothing like my scumplay actually.

D1? I dissagree. D2? agreed, but you were pushing a scummy agenda imo. D3? no idea, haven't followed this day enough to tell.

[Killthestory]

d1 athena was nothing like scumthena

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

I wouldn't mind Bart dying for the sake of info but I think it's going to be town and would rather vote SB who is my top sr rn.
I should also read the last 3 pages that I missed sometime 

[Conqueror]

3 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

no no no bart is the lynch today. i'm not hunting for any deepwolves yet when we've got wolves right in front of our eyes.

I'm waiting for Bart to post. I don't like the slot and think it's good hit for scum but the way SB entered onto that wagon just gives me hives.

[Athena_57]

3 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

D1? I dissagree. D2? agreed, but you were pushing a scummy agenda imo. D3? no idea, haven't followed this day enough to tell.

Point the similarities out then. You've said this multiple times now without giving any examples/elaboration

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

sr is scumread GAH

[Athena_57]

@Bartozio

My EO3 D1 was a tunnel on an inactive. My IDNSFMM5 D1 was a 1v1 + basically only reactionary posting.  Neither of these was my D1 this game.

I'm not saying you have to townread me for a shifting playstyle, but scumreading over meta-reasons is just plain wrong.

[Conqueror]

@Ice Sage Since I think you're on

Can you explain what you meant by this statement about Refa?

Quote

Haven't seen the other games, but i don't think Scum!you would be doing this.

 

This is super vague, why not? Or rather, what would scum!Refa be doing here?

Quote

I don't think scum!refa would be going this far on defending himself. 

Why wouldn't he defend himself against someone attacking him? Like I've seen a lot of defenses of Refa in this thread but this is probably the most ????? Is there any aspect of his defense which you found town? I'm gathering you read the thunderdome, so did you like his posts/points against me? What about my points against him?

Also, what do you like about Athena's Bart case? My major issue with your slot is that you're not showing that you've put any thought into people's alignments other than when people ask you directly. I can see being nervous as a new player, but I don't think you've had a single original thought all game, and I don't think I'm exaggerating. I'm not asking for a lot, but more than 2 reads isn't a high bar, is it? I can't see the progression on any of your reads at all.

 

[Killthestory]

9 minutes ago, Orihime said:

I wouldn't mind Bart dying for the sake of info but I think it's going to be town and would rather vote SB who is my top sr rn.
I should also read the last 3 pages that I missed sometime 

infolynches make me ANGRY

[Eurykins]

I refuse to retype out everything I just typed. I'm just going to HYPER Tl:dr my posts I was working on regarding Shinori and Refa (two massive chunks I had going on). I may chop up the posts as to one of Shinori, one of Refa, to hopefully avoid tempting SF forums fate in losing yet ANOTHER post.

Shinori/Refa are plausible scum buddies. And as stated before, Shinori has been bugging me on gut since ED1. I will elaborate on what I can fucking REMEMBER from my bigger post earlier.

Shinori has not committed to Refa/SB cases at all.

For as much as Shinori has been tunneling Refa, I do not truly believe that his half-baked Reaction Fake Claim test was enough to pull him that far off of Refa, nor does it justify him offering him as a better read to the rest of us players. Refa has said and done nothing to remove the prior reads on his slot.

I consider this SB interaction as scum playing on scum to garner early game movement, which more often than not serves as more "Proactive townie movement out of RVS"

Starts to move towards Refa things.

Moves onto Randa

--- Insert more tunneling on Randa posts ---

I still believe this was Shinori's way of not committing to Randa in vote swapping to Refa, which makes me look at it with more sus given RAD's flip *Randa, not RAD.

Where he starts asking for Vig shots on Randa/Refa slot.

Chewing more on Refa posts/casing.

Starts asking people to explicitly look at himself V Refa. This becomes something habitual/repetitive, just like him asking for vig shots on certain slots. This makes me question whether his "interactions" with Refa are more staged than not, which would be making the most out of Refa's "Demotivated" gameplay and time posting.

Asks Ice about himself V. Refa.

Asking for RAD/Evan slots to be shot too.

If a wagon is being pushed far too fast with no resistance (and looks really suspect as a result), if it bothers you, why is there not more active voicing out against the wagon? Sure you comment on it, but you do nothing to stop it. Watching someone push someone else off a cliff without bothering to help or interfere at all is just as bad as the person doing the actual pushing. You're looking on without doing anything about it.

You mention Ice being a scummish read here and a few posts before, but I don't really get the impression that you're pushing that far into the read itself?

Once again, Evan wagon seems super SUSPECT yet you don't anything much about it? Little too passive of a gameplay if you're having those sort of thoughts regarding a wagon. I've seen you fight against worse cases (Even regarding defending myself as you've done in several games), so this just doesn't feel right to me.

Are you a self-watcher or something??? That first comment in itself made me wonder, and consider 2 options: 1. You're a self-watching role, or 2. You were notified by someone else (AKA. Scum buddy watcher) that you were visited by people during the night. Either way, I'm not feeling great about either option, as we've already had a Townie vanilla flip, and an ACTIVE watcher would serve townside far better in this case than a passive/self-watcher. (Also you hinting at that makes me feel like you would not do that as town!nori, because you're dissuading scum from wanting to target you??)

Also the linked post is one hell of a big post once again locking down on Refa's slot.

Once again another big ass post regarding Refa being scummy af. Also, things in this post:

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If people will not vote Refa for me I will 100% vote Rad today.  Here's also a strong post from Via saying we should look at Rad if Evan flips town:  Interesting since she died.  For what it matters Via's reads over the end of the day were actually fairly similar to mine.

Logically speaking Rad is a better lynch today than Refa.  However I am 100% positive that refa flips scum and I know for a fact the longer he lives the harder it will be to lynch him.

Bolded: This is actually the reason why I believe Via was killed N1. Multiple people- including Shinori and KTS (top two that I can recall off the top of my head atm)- have been pulling up Via's reads and utilizing them as guidelines in directing towards the lynch candidates (or, as we all know NOW, MISLYNCH candidates). 

Italicized: Lines up RAD over Refa, and yet you seem convinced of Refa 100% that he's scum. Ok. Good to keep in mind for later on.

Bantering with SB wrt Refa. Also SB has constantly been defending Refa with less than stellar reasons/points, which is another thing to keep in mind for associations.

In tandem with the Hoot-hoot claim earlier, I question what aspect of "guilty" you were aiming for. In addition to Refa never being my TOP scum read, I later considered the concept of "What sort of guilty were you aiming to claim as well? Cop? Watcher/Voyeur/Tracker (watching Refa go to the NK target's place?) or something like it?", but by that time it was the end of the day phase and I was all sorts of frustrated with Shinori over the fake claim situation.

LOOKING AT EVERYTHING ABOVE- Everything Shinori had issues with wrt Refa's slot- is where I have the problems of how/why Shinori is so adamant about not really scum reading him anymore post fake claim gambit. The only thing that really happened outside of that was me becoming suspected because I didn't go super enthusiastic wrt Refa being under fire, and Refa apparently being better read by Shinori? Gut feeling is that this entire situation was STAGED (in which Refa's reactions/posting was actually pretty standard and seemed pretty easy to me) in order to get Refa in a better light and to throw the people moreso onto RAD than Refa in the last day phase. More will be covered when going over Refa's posts in the next one.

In addition, regarding the Gambit Fake Claim post: When it was originally made, (on the SF time stamps), it was 8:50 PM. When Shinori broke away from it after a few reactions, it was 10:15PM. This is a poor timeframe to garner reactions from, and if TIME was a concern (and the fact that he sought out multiple people's opinions or WANTED to from the gambit), why was it not posted as say, HIS FIRST POST where everyone thereafter would be able to see gambit and react/respond to it? Better reads, more open timing, and HAD HE ASKED THE MODS (which is something he should've done if he's pulling something like this), Marth confirmed to me that we are unable to HAMMER someone when in Anarchy (I asked him this as part of the start of the Anarchy phase, as that was a legitimate concern of mine in terms of not being able to see other people's votes).

So vote piling early onto Refa (if people bought the fake claim) with ample time to discuss/diffuse would've made 100% MORE SENSE than to just have it be there for less than 2 hours, cherry pick reactions from Refa (who was oddly active during the time- very convenient of a fact regarding the situation. You SURE this wasn't staged?) and a few others, and be done with the situation. 

This is why I view Shinori's overall Gambit as being frustrating, confusing, but also (when I had time to look at the picture afterwards as a whole) is actually starting to come off as being bad to me. It did not affect me in a scummy manner INITIALLY (which I posted earlier), but I also have not done a super deep ISO surf on his slot for a while, which was something I should've admittedly done sooner and I regret not doing so.

This post also becomes pointless if the entire situation was staged by Shinori and Refa.

You're calling out Conq for having a "weird tunnel on Refa" when you've been one of Refa's biggest antagonists??? Pot meet kettle?

I feel like it took a while for Shinori to actually go in-depth with an actual casing of Ice, despite suspecting the slot far earlier. Gut tells me Ice was put on the back burners in lieu of ensuring RAD/Evan/Refa situations were taken care of beforehand.

TL:DR: Shinori slot is bothering me a LOT.

His interactions with Refa and SB look a lot of suspect to me atm.

Shinori's wagoning of Refa since D1 doesn't change anything even if it's a scum/scum thing. We know that Shinori LOVES to bus his buddies- it's even become a meme amongst the Mafia players here. Him backing off of Refa due to the one reaction test also does not come clean to me, because it just doesn't feel JUSTIFIED. For as much investment as he's put towards casing/arguing/counter-pointing Refa, this seems like an extremely strong 180 of Refa falling off his concerns/spectrum of lynch interest, which is rubbing me the wrong way hard.

Shinori has also applied pressure/had issues with SB several times, but has never done anything about it? Reading the actions as a WHOLE  (not just during the timeframes in which they happened), it almost feels artificial in terms of dropping some dirt but then looking away and not doing much about it. He also seemed to take far longer time to case/look into Ice for him putting Ice on his priority, and overall his interactions are feeling worse as the day phase moves on.

*Moving onto Refa in a moment. Need to get something to drink and hoping SF doesn't murder another post of mine.

[Shinori]

Yo barts voting process is weird as fuck.

Rapier(RVS)

SB

Unvotes SB(Really weird unvote also)

(Votes Randa)

D2 (Votes Rad)

But in all actuality he's basically only voted Randa/Rad all game considering his SB vote was on page 6.

[Conqueror]

I don't think Shinori is scum and I think exploring this avenue is just going to fill the thread with a bunch of junk.

[Eurykins]

Then probably ignore the next couple of posts, as they will be Refa/SB filled and both are associations that reflect poorly on Shinori's slot.

[Conqueror]

Unless you think the entire D2 fiasco was planned out for cred beforehand. Seems unlikely.

If you think Shinori is scum with Refa/SB I'd firebomb the last two slots first by far. Honestly I think Shinori was probably the N2 doc protect without any better targets (assuming SB is scum, which I think he is).

[Shinori]

Okay haven't even read all that post but something already bothers me to hell.

2 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Shinori has not committed to Refa/SB cases at all.

you wat mate

3 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

For as much as Shinori has been tunneling Refa, I do not truly believe that his half-baked Reaction Fake Claim test was enough to pull him that far off of Refa,

lul.

Town shinori plays a gambit; refa doesn't just roll over.  This was a pretty big tell in my eyes because I DONT GAMBIT.

Any time I've claimed a guilty of some sort in the past it hasn't been a gambit so Refa's reaction was very telling in my eyes.

[Shinori]

6 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

You mention Ice being a scummish read here and a few posts before, but I don't really get the impression that you're pushing that far into the read itself?

Not much for me to really push.  I want ice lynched but most people won't lynch that slot.

For what it matters if we end up in *YLO I'll probably policy vote Ice right off the bat.  *Shrug*

[Conqueror]

4 minutes ago, Shinori said:

For what it matters if we end up in *YLO I'll probably policy vote Ice right off the bat.  *Shrug*

Please don't do this. Even if he's scum. Just...don't.

What do you think about moving to SB?

[Eurykins]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

Okay haven't even read all that post but something already bothers me to hell.

you wat mate

lul.

Town shinori plays a gambit; refa doesn't just roll over.  This was a pretty big tell in my eyes because I DONT GAMBIT.

Committed = Seeing the case through to an actual lynch. Pushing them as an actual FINAL lynch candidate.

Neither SB nor Refa have been done, despite your tunneling/persistent casing. Clearly you're not being convincing, or something else is going on. Or you're not being serious in your actual pursuit/zeal of them.

Also please explain exactly what Refa did in his reaction that's so telling. From what I see below:

Quote

^That's my role.  Should be obvious town, there's literally zero scum benefit to it existing.  I'm not going to confirm/deny any additional information about my role, so deal with it.

I asked Marth if investigation results were guaranteed to be accurate, and he said yes.  I then asked him if that precluded the existence of a tailor, and he said "this game isn't bastard and everything happens for a reason!" which basically confirms nothing.  EIther Shinori is lying, or there is a Tailor.  I don't get why Scum!Shinori tunnels me and lies about a guilty (I can see Shinori being ballsy enough to lie about a guilty, but all of the proceeding play makes me think that he genuinely believed he caught me), it'd just make him look bad tomorrow.  Even if I get lynched and he somehow doesn't die tonight, I wouldn't go after him.  Tailor on me is fucking obnoxious why would you even add this role in your game Marf.  The problem is who would tailor me...my gut guess would be SB/Baldrick/Eurykins, honestly, just because those are people who'd be fearful of me being cleared.  RAD is still a bad lynch.

JB/Ice Sage not having voted despite saying that they would is ??? but it could just be laziness on their part; I know I didn't vote immediately even after I said I would.

"Hey gaiz my role is obv town lmao". How is a vote total revealer indicative of scum or townside? It's no different than other roles like Announcer or something public like that.

LULZ TAILOR ROLE SPEC WTF IS GOING ON.

Also the use of this Tailor spec also tells people to not gun for you regardless of how Refa would flip. If he flips scum, you get cred. If he flips town under the pretense of TAILOR, then you still get towncred. ????????????

I also don't see how I garner any benefit or FEAR him being cleared. If he clears himself, then I no need to worry myself over his slot, and can focus on other people I deem as scum. That HELPS me more than harm. I don't understand that logic either.

Stating that RAD is a bad lynch doesn't do us anything either. Asking in his last post who to vote also does no good, since most people were sold in RAD anyways (myself included). Literally zero things were actually meaningful or telling in this post, yet you accept it as him being more townie than not because of it. 

[SB.]

The last Ice post looks worse because there's less free thought in it. It's just responses to people which looks more like appeasement, and I don't think their reads have really developed from their last post either. Who is scum other than Bart?

@Jaybee I don't get the point of a lot of your catchup. I don't... think you're scumreading Shinori, but you spend a lot of the time criticising the slot and I can't really tell if you think Conq is scum or not. Like, you bring up his posts a lot but I can't see you ever calling him scummy which I would have kind of expected. How do you read Conq now?

@Orihime I'm super lost on what you're saying wrt pushing on Bart. I think you townread Eury and I'm not sure on Refa, but assuming Eury is town then wouldn't the Bart push be mostly town motivated anyway? Scum don't need to hard wagon as specific townie if they have another townie counterwagon, so I don't see how this defence for him holds up. Bart wasn't really being scumread in earlier days either and I have no idea why you're voting me.

@Conqueror, it's the fact that Eury was using logic like "Shinori wouldn't lie" to justify it over "yeah I think this response to Shinori is scum" because it's easier to mess up with trying to smear townie's intentions. If you come up with a new way to case someone as scum you open yourself up to being criticised and I don't think scum!Eury would go in if she thought Refa had been fake guiltied. I don't really know how else to word this because I feel like I've explained it a bunch of times now and you don't see it which is kind of frustrating.

Don't really want to go back and look while the thread is active but it felt like KTS treated me like any other suspect rather than making a big deal out of it (for theoretical scum!KTS to try and show town how he was contributing). It didn't feel like he was trying to blend into the background or make a big deal out of it so it generally felt like the push had good intentions from it because he wasn't going to get much cred.

Bart's recent posts don't really do anything for me in terms of not wanting to lynch him. I don't even know what they're trying to argue about Athena any more, I think it's scum but like... the read is so messy that I don't buy into it. @Bartozio how sure are you of your Athena read?

Have not read Eury's post yet because it's really long.

[Shinori]

Also the general "I have a guilty" comment is mostly from a cop perspective especially if it's to be damning.  Tracker/watcher's aren't always damning but cops pretty much always are.

9 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Are you a self-watcher or something???

Don't role fish me.  That's bad. Mkay.

10 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Bolded: This is actually the reason why I believe Via was killed N1. Multiple people- including Shinori and KTS (top two that I can recall off the top of my head atm)- have been pulling up Via's reads and utilizing them as guidelines in directing towards the lynch candidates (or, as we all know NOW, MISLYNCH candidates). 

Via was obviously killed night 1?  It's even on the front page.  Unless you think some redirect shenanigans happened.  I don't understand this line of thought.

12 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

When it was originally made, (on the SF time stamps), it was 8:50 PM. When Shinori broke away from it after a few reactions, it was 10:15PM. This is a poor timeframe to garner reactions from, and if TIME was a concern (and the fact that he sought out multiple people's opinions or WANTED to from the gambit), why was it not posted as say, HIS FIRST POST where everyone thereafter would be able to see gambit and react/respond to it? Better reads, more open timing, and HAD HE ASKED THE MODS (which is something he should've done if he's pulling something like this), Marth confirmed to me that we are unable to HAMMER someone when in Anarchy (I asked him this as part of the start of the Anarchy phase, as that was a legitimate concern of mine in terms of not being able to see other people's votes).

A cop wouldn't want to outwardly claim on D2.  That's super iffy and if a roleblock is in the game the cop then becomes useless.  (See cuphead mafia lul)  Albeit I meant to fake claim at like 16-18 hours left in phase and lost track of phase end time so plans got changed.

 

13 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

You're calling out Conq for having a "weird tunnel on Refa" when you've been one of Refa's biggest antagonists???

Pretty massively different scenarios.  Scenario 1 was me casing Refa pretty actively days 1/2 while still looking at other people.

Conq was in a thunderdome basically and not looking at other people, also he was scumreading him basically solely off of Refa's reaction to my fake guilty initially.  So no, not pot meet kettle but way different context.

15 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Shinori has also applied pressure/had issues with SB several times, but has never done anything about it?

SB has never been on my list of priority for a lynch or one of my actual scum reads above other people.  IF you ISO'd me you would know this.  Never once did I state that I would lynch SB before AT LEAST 3-4 OTHER people.  Pretty sure I never actually stated I would lynch SB, just got bad gut vibes from some of his posts.

@Eurykins Who are you gonna vote? I'd like to see that.

[Shinori]

7 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

Please don't do this. Even if he's scum. Just...don't.

What do you think about moving to SB?

I need to reread SB again first.

I was getting bad gut vibes from him previously but nothing that looked worse in my eyes than other people.

In my eyes SB had a super questionably Athena push on D1. (IT was his vote at the end of the day phase) This gave me a vibe of TMI.  He also has a weird post on D2 where he defends Ice a bit.

[Conqueror]

2 minutes ago, SB. said:

 

@Conqueror, it's the fact that Eury was using logic like "Shinori wouldn't lie" to justify it over "yeah I think this response to Shinori is scum" because it's easier to mess up with trying to smear townie's intentions. If you come up with a new way to case someone as scum you open yourself up to being criticised and I don't think scum!Eury would go in if she thought Refa had been fake guiltied. I don't really know how else to word this because I feel like I've explained it a bunch of times now and you don't see it which is kind of frustrating.

Don't really want to go back and look while the thread is active but it felt like KTS treated me like any other suspect rather than making a big deal out of it (for theoretical scum!KTS to try and show town how he was contributing). It didn't feel like he was trying to blend into the background or make a big deal out of it so it generally felt like the push had good intentions from it because he wasn't going to get much cred.

But Eury said both. She said Shinori wouldn't lie (playing up the guilty) and she also says this.

Quote

ALSO, YOU STATE THAT I'M NEUTRAL WRT MY READ ON YOU? I've scum read you since D1, and I've stuck by it? Shinori's claim to your guilty only seals the deal for me, and your claim does nothing to change/rectify the view on your slot. 

Unless you think that she should have gotten a clear read from Refa's reaction?

Quote

If you come up with a new way to case someone as scum you open yourself up to being criticised and I don't think scum!Eury would go in if she thought Refa had been fake guiltied.

Okay I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say here. I'm assuming you're saying that Eury didn't know the guilty was fake, so that points toward scum!Eury going in? Why would scum!Eury think the guilty was real then if Refa is town in this situation and Shinori is also town?

This is what I don't get, why would scum!KTS's push on you be for cred in the first place? Scum doesn't get cred for attacking non-obvious targets, I don't really think KTS needed any cred anyway with how little pressure he was getting and no one was attacking him. If he was scum pushing on town you, making a big deal about his case on you would bring more attention to him that he wouldn't want, so the idea he would make a big deal out of a case on you as scum doesn't make sense to me. This feels like a really flimsy reason to drop a suspect, and I've been feeling this way about the reasoning you've provided for your lynch choices/finding people scummy all this day, which makes me sad because I had a pretty strong town read on you before.

What do you think about my vote on you?

[Killthestory]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I need to reread SB again first.

I was getting bad gut vibes from him previously but nothing that looked worse in my eyes than other people.

In my eyes SB had a super questionably Athena push on D1. (IT was his vote at the end of the day phase) This gave me a vibe of TMI.  He also has a weird post on D2 where he defends Ice a bit.

this is exactly why i was feeling iffy on sb.

[Eurykins]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Also the general "I have a guilty" comment is mostly from a cop perspective especially if it's to be damning.  Tracker/watcher's aren't always damning but cops pretty much always are.

Don't role fish me.  That's bad. Mkay.

Via was obviously killed night 1?  It's even on the front page.  Unless you think some redirect shenanigans happened.  I don't understand this line of thought.

A cop wouldn't want to outwardly claim on D2.  That's super iffy and if a roleblock is in the game the cop then becomes useless.  (See cuphead mafia lul)  Albeit I meant to fake claim at like 16-18 hours left in phase and lost track of phase end time so plans got changed.

 

Pretty massively different scenarios.  Scenario 1 was me casing Refa pretty actively days 1/2 while still looking at other people.

Conq was in a thunderdome basically and not looking at other people, also he was scumreading him basically solely off of Refa's reaction to my fake guilty initially.  So no, not pot meet kettle but way different context.

SB has never been on my list of priority for a lynch or one of my actual scum reads above other people.  IF you ISO'd me you would know this.  Never once did I state that I would lynch SB before AT LEAST 3-4 OTHER people.  Pretty sure I never actually stated I would lynch SB, just got bad gut vibes from some of his posts.

@Eurykins Who are you gonna vote? I'd like to see that.

You say that, yet you post this:

Quote

Boy was I a popular target last night, Hoot-hoot!  Let's get started.  Post 1/5.

So me asking about your comment is bad, even though you posted the implications yourself? Okay.

NO SHIT VIA DIED N1 AND GOT JANITORED BY THE LOOKS OF THE LACK OF PM FLIP. I said she died BECAUSE OF HER CASING, LINES OF LOGIC, all of which were, as of thus far, MISLYNCH targets. Call it "assisting in directing mislynches" by means of people utilizing a dead person's reads to support prior day's lynch interests.

Except a cop claim to lock down a secure scum kill, which could've actually flipped some associative reads as well, would've done us townies a good thing? Also, doctors/protective roles can exist and often do to some degree, and if Scum RB focuses on cop solely, then other town-sided power roles have a higher chance of getting through?

You did realize that Anarchy was 48 hours right? Why wait 'til post 24 hours+ in order to do the gambit? Makes no sense, especially if you were concerned at all about time and people vote sitting.

I have yet to read through Conq, but it still came off as odd to me that you of all people spoke up against Refa tunneling. Could be the above noted situation though, in which case I would retract that point.

If you noticed my phrasing I had Refa/SB noted. You also never did give any heavy reads wrt SB, which is likewise what bothered me. The notions of wagoning were moreso on Refa than SB, but maybe I phrased that sentence weird. English sucks like that (or at least mine does).

Not going to vote until I get through the other people.