Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

There is most likely 4 scum in this game.

Does that change your thoughts at all @Orihime

Oh yay live interaction my fav
Anyway really? That's a bit harsh but if it is the case it makes me lean more towards scum being fine with the game state because more scum players gives them more control and that's what they want the big topic of talking from what I see is Refa/Bart I don't think they're scum at the moment the only reason I can see scum being fine with this game state along with 1 (not likely 2) of Refa/Bart scum would be the other scum are in a good spot but I don't really want to go down that rabbit hole atm.

[Eurykins]

I just literally lost my entire post by reloading posts on SEPARATE tab that refreshed THIS tab for some fucking reason. I'm done.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

6 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Them not being defended is a fair point, I'm getting a bit paranoid myself (and I was (one of) the first on the wagon), but there have been counterwagons? Refa has had some votes, same with Eury.

I agree with Refa and while I've seen Eury get a bit of heat I townread them and don't want to see them get lynched. While Refa/Eury have been talked about it feels almost the whole playerlist sr's Bart while Refa/Eury are a select few. How do you feel about SB slot? That's most likely where my vote is going when I'm done with my catch up

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Orihime said:

I agree with Refa and while I've seen Eury get a bit of heat I townread them and don't want to see them get lynched. While Refa/Eury have been talked about it feels almost the whole playerlist sr's Bart while Refa/Eury are a select few. How do you feel about SB slot? That's most likely where my vote is going when I'm done with my catch up

You townreading them doesn't change they've been pushed though, which was what this was about?

I've previously described SB as "town with rough edges" and still stand by that. There are some minor things that have irked me about the slot, but overall the contributions are good enough that I can overlook them.

[Athena_57]

Like, you said there weren't any counterwagons to Bartozio, but you townreading one of the counterwagons doesn't mean it wasn't there/couldn't have been a scumpushed counterwagon? In fact it makes it even more likely FYPOV, so I'm not following your argument.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

You townreading them doesn't change they've been pushed though, which was what this was about?

I've previously described SB as "town with rough edges" and still stand by that. There are some minor things that have irked me about the slot, but overall the contributions are good enough that I can overlook them.

I don't think they've been pushed to the extent that they'd be lynched over Bart 

[Shinori]

I don't want to lynch Refa.  I also don't really want to lynch Eury.

I'm still reading over other things.

Why do you feel 11/4 is a bit harsh?  I could see it being 12/3 but probably with a very weak town.

11/4 is allowed 3 miss lynches
12/3 is allowed 4 miss lynches.

Not counting any other killing roles or docs.

Also if your argument there is that scum are fine with the game state how do you feel regarding the fact that when this phase started Bart was probably the primary suspect slightly followed by Eury(With Bart still in the lead).  Then after the day phase started a bit Refa wagon kind of randomly had some people choose to hop on it and Eury wagon started to get more force behind it?  Obviously there has been some sort of movement by scum somewhere unless all 3 of these people are town, which I highly doubt.

SB's had some very questionable push's in my eyes and has been on my watch list but part of that is gut.

[Athena_57]

A failed counterwagon is still a counterwagon attempt though.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

Like, you said there weren't any counterwagons to Bartozio, but you townreading one of the counterwagons doesn't mean it wasn't there/couldn't have been a scumpushed counterwagon? In fact it makes it even more likely FYPOV, so I'm not following your argument.

Me townreading them doesn't make them not  a likely counter wagon to Bart infact it'd be even more likely they were but I don't think a lot of people are sring them so it's not this big issue were I have to go "hm maybe bart is scum and eury is the counter wagon" the pushes on Refa/Eury are there but not to the level of Bart

[Athena_57]

3 minutes ago, Orihime said:

I don't think they've been pushed to the extent that they'd be lynched over Bart 

 

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

A failed counterwagon is still a counterwagon attempt though.

This was meant as a reply to the above quote.

[Killthestory]

@Jaybee i'm not exactly sure what you want me to say? "oh yeah, my read changed, just didn't mention it." like, that's obviously what happened, but are you looking for something else? in my wolf game, i was pretty organized and on top of looking good while pushing people, and you're sort of just trying to push me because you don't know what's going on in my head? you can, y'know, ask me question, but you were the one saying i was very expressedly different from my wolf game and suddenly pull this sr on me out of your ass. it's funny because that's exactly what you're accusing me of doing with flipping my reads on people without a lot of prior discussion.

lol.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Orihime said:

Me townreading them doesn't make them not  a likely counter wagon to Bart infact it'd be even more likely they were but I don't think a lot of people are sring them so it's not this big issue were I have to go "hm maybe bart is scum and eury is the counter wagon" the pushes on Refa/Eury are there but not to the level of Bart

The first is exactly what I said.

How is it weird not a lot of people are pushing them? Do you expect the entire scumteam to gang up / half the town to sheep it?

One scum member making the push and 1/2 people tagging along seems reasonable to me.

[Killthestory]

ice sage's recent catchup didn't feell particularly terrible. think i'm down for a jaybee / bart double hit.

[Conqueror]

11 hours ago, SB. said:

@Conqueror, the stiffness is things like

"Kind of doesn't make things seem any better IMO? "

"Shinori's claim to your guilty only seals the deal for me, and your claim does nothing to change/rectify the view on your slot. "

To me it read like she was trying hard to justify Refa being scum without really giving him a foothold to argue, so the stiffness was because it didn't feel like a natural push given the circumstances.

My brain has been trying hard to process what you're saying here and I'm still not getting what you're saying. If she thinks Refa is scum then she probably doesn't want to give him a foothold to argue. Where do you get "trying hard to justify Refa being scum from this?" Refa had just said his role made him obvtown and it looks like she was just shooting down his points. What would a natural push look like here?

I'll see if Eury responds to the meta bit because I don't know how much of it is accurate.

12 hours ago, SB. said:

-got to talk with them and i felt like the way they addressed me was more in line with town pushing a scumread over scum pushing a townie

Can you just point out which parts pinged you as town pushing you rather than scum pushing you? I'm asking because if I were getting paranoid about him as scum in your position I don't think the short interaction you two had would have done much for me.

12 hours ago, SB. said:

To make the last part clearer, I don't think Kill was trying to make a big deal out of his push on me and make himself look good. It looked more like he was investigating a suspect.

I don't know how pushing you would look good since most people seem to think you're town here so it wouldn't make sense for scum!KTS to take that angle in the first place? Like I can see why you'd think KTS is town I just don't get your reasoning here since the interaction was so short I wouldn't even call it an investigation.

@Orihime @ShinoriWhat about Refa/his posts do you agree with? I'm trying to figure out if I'm tunneling here but I feel like his posts against me were just incredibly bad, and whenever I addressed a point he just sidestepped it. Also, Refa has had all of 2 votes on him this day phase. 

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I don't want to lynch Refa.  I also don't really want to lynch Eury.

I'm still reading over other things.

Why do you feel 11/4 is a bit harsh?  I could see it being 12/3 but probably with a very weak town.

11/4 is allowed 3 miss lynches
12/3 is allowed 4 miss lynches.

Not counting any other killing roles or docs.

Also if your argument there is that scum are fine with the game state how do you feel regarding the fact that when this phase started Bart was probably the primary suspect slightly followed by Eury(With Bart still in the lead).  Then after the day phase started a bit Refa wagon kind of randomly had some people choose to hop on it and Eury wagon started to get more force behind it?  Obviously there has been some sort of movement by scum somewhere unless all 3 of these people are town, which I highly doubt.

SB's had some very questionable push's in my eyes and has been on my watch list but part of that is gut.

11/4 feels like an easy scum win I expect 4 to be like 17p games maybe 16 but not 15 I assume we have some pretty good power to balance out the 4 scum but set up spec is somewhat useless right now.  

3 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

A failed counterwagon is still a counterwagon attempt though.

I don't really consider 2 votes a "wagon" at this point plus the threat of being lynched doesn't really seem there as with Bart if 3 people voted it or 4 etc. I could see that as a counter wagon but 2 votes can be votes just sitting somewhere it doesn't really scream lynchable to me. Perhaps we have different thoughts on that though 

[Conqueror]

@KillthestoryI'm never lynching JB after the first part of his catchup, I thought it looked pretty good. Why do you want to lynch there?

 

[Killthestory]

how is anything in his catchup remotely townie

[Killthestory]

like someone said jaybee was obvious town for meta reasons, so unless you guys have more knowledge on the guy than i do, he's pretty fucking wolfy to me.

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

ice sage's recent catchup didn't feell particularly terrible. think i'm down for a jaybee / bart double hit.

I don't want to lynch Jaybee.  What do you mean by double hit?

What about Ice's catch up post was good in your eyes?

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

4 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

The first is exactly what I said.

How is it weird not a lot of people are pushing them? Do you expect the entire scumteam to gang up / half the town to sheep it?

One scum member making the push and 1/2 people tagging along seems reasonable to me.

Scum's job is to take control of the game and look good doing it getting results they want this is mafia 101. When mafia lose that control factor and town start becoming town cores blocking up and stuff like that it's when scum lose the game. The point I'm trying to make is if bart is sr by all over the playerlist why weren't they lynched d1 d2 etc etc either get it over with now or don't touch the slot perhaps scum are sitting back and letting bart get ml'd and then the heat will go on the people scum reading him? That's the answer I've come to at the moment 

[Shinori]

2 hours ago, Ice Sage said:

Your case is good. I haven't seen him push much, if at all. He was arguing against you about the evan wagon, but it looked like he was pretty adamant on voting randa/rad so i don't know why he was going in like that to you.

You were defending yourself good. yes, you were demotivated at first, so not seeing you post much at the beginning of D2 had me a little suspicious, but that cleared away once you started explaining against Conqueror. you have your own reasons for switching your randa vote to evan. and it wouldn't change much since we were all scumreading him. Haven't seen the other games, but i don't think Scum!you would be doing this.

I don't think scum!refa would be going this far on defending himself. like before he wasn't posting much, but seeing all this I think he's town. I also think now that RAD was found town, I can see why he is going far to not get mislynched.

Thoughts for now I'm with Athena on bart's case, and think Refa is town.

I have been playing nervously yeah. at least for the other days I didn't know if i was making the right moves on finding scum reads.

I think that's all. if i missed any other questions towards me please tell me.

This whole post amounts to:

Say's Athena's Bart case is good.
Says Refa is town and some small reasoning as to why.
And then just stating "If i missed any other questions let me know."

I want to see Ice actually telling us their own thoughts not this sort of post.

WHY is this town KTS?

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

I don't want to lynch Jaybee.  What do you mean by double hit?

What about Ice's catch up post was good in your eyes?

means they can both die

ice's catchup felt like he was solving and cooperating with town at first, but going back i change my mind lmao. he's super appeasing and agreeable, definite scum mentality.

i just have to stop doubting myself and stick to ice sage and bart.

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, Orihime said:

Scum's job is to take control of the game and look good doing it getting results they want this is mafia 101. When mafia lose that control factor and town start becoming town cores blocking up and stuff like that it's when scum lose the game. The point I'm trying to make is if bart is sr by all over the playerlist why weren't they lynched d1 d2 etc etc either get it over with now or don't touch the slot perhaps scum are sitting back and letting bart get ml'd and then the heat will go on the people scum reading him? That's the answer I've come to at the moment 

Bart wasn't on everyone's player list as a scum read for the entire game, some people felt iffy/off on him during Day 1 but pretty much everyone felt worse WRT other people.

Bart is also KNOWN to be mislynched a lot.

[Conqueror]

It shows he's reading the game which is like more than half the playerlist can say. Okay maybe I overreacted saying I'd never lynch him but I thought he asked good questions, even if I don't agree with all the conclusions and he didn't really do anything with them. I take it you dislike his push on you? I guess I'd ask where his priorities are.

That reminds me, I forgot to address this. @Jaybee I only threw that last minute KTS/Refa connection out there because I was paranoid and was running out of time. I didn't really have any issues with him before that.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

6 minutes ago, Conqueror said:

My brain has been trying hard to process what you're saying here and I'm still not getting what you're saying. If she thinks Refa is scum then she probably doesn't want to give him a foothold to argue. Where do you get "trying hard to justify Refa being scum from this?" Refa had just said his role made him obvtown and it looks like she was just shooting down his points. What would a natural push look like here?

I'll see if Eury responds to the meta bit because I don't know how much of it is accurate.

Can you just point out which parts pinged you as town pushing you rather than scum pushing you? I'm asking because if I were getting paranoid about him as scum in your position I don't think the short interaction you two had would have done much for me.

I don't know how pushing you would look good since most people seem to think you're town here so it wouldn't make sense for scum!KTS to take that angle in the first place? Like I can see why you'd think KTS is town I just don't get your reasoning here since the interaction was so short I wouldn't even call it an investigation.

@Orihime @ShinoriWhat about Refa/his posts do you agree with? I'm trying to figure out if I'm tunneling here but I feel like his posts against me were just incredibly bad, and whenever I addressed a point he just sidestepped it. Also, Refa has had all of 2 votes on him this day phase. 

In my notes I've had Refa as "towny">scummy>more scummy>townyish>null  it's gone all over the place my main point for Refa town is I feel like his play isn't doing him any favors as scum and he'd try to change it up a little like it's not getting him out of peoples cross hairs but the style of play is consistent