What character did you want to like so much, but couldn't?

[vanguard333]

Does Fire Emblem Fates count as a character?

In all seriousness, there are a few characters I can think of. But one in particular would be Alm. As someone who is left-handed, I bought SoV and thought, "Okay Alm; let's hope you're a good enough character to make up for Link being right-handed in Breath of the Wild for no good reason." To be honest; he had potential. It looked like there was going to be an interesting story of him and Celica each trying to save the world their own way based on their respective ideologies, and nearly tear themselves apart like Mila and Duma did, but they reconcile and balance each other out unlike Mila and Duma. They learn from Mila and Duma's mistakes and save the world. Oh; what a story that would have been.

It was obvious throughout the game what Celica thought: the world needed Mila; Mila would solve everything. It was obviously clear what Celica's flaws were. But for Alm? It seemed like the game was maybe going to try to make it that Alm thought they needed to stand up for themselves, and the flaw that would come about from this would be that his mind only thought in terms of the next battle, and him unknowingly killing his father would make him see where it all went wrong. I thought they would perhaps have even made it that Rudolf, with his mad plan born of the Rigelian battle and strength is everything mindset, is what Alm would've become if it weren't for Celica. It certainly seemed like that's what some of the writers were going for. That they would both, in effect, save each other.

But; no. They made Alm a generic Marth lord, in a game where a generic Marth lord does not fit. They tried to compensate for this with some sort of societal-class doesn't matter subplot like Ike had, except it was completely undercut by Alm being secret royalty, all his greatness that other characters kept yapping about being due to his heritage, and even him becoming head of the Deliverance not being something he earned, but something he was just given for being Mycen's supposed grandson.

What were Alm's flaws? He certainly had some, as I mentioned, but they weren't properly explored. A lot of people have described Celica as being naïve and/or idiotic in Part 4, but I am willing to bet no one would be saying anything like that if a) it had been handled a little better, and b) the game actually bothered to explore Alm's flaws, rather than have Alm be this special guy who's always in the right: this character who every single girl wants and who every guy seems to want to be, all for no reason. No one can relate to that; no one can believe that. 

Alm could have been a great character, but instead, he was bland, generic, treated as perfect, and right up to the edge of being a gary sue. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by vanguard333

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

23 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Alm could have been a great character, but instead, he was bland, generic, treated as perfect, and right up to the edge of being a gary sue. 

Hope you don't mind me snipping, but yes! This!

Alm was so insanely boring that his whole path became a slog and I didn't finish the game. Purely because I didn't want to deal with Alm.

[NoirCore]

You can argue much of the new Radiant Dawn characters. There's plenty of new, cool designs there, but the characters themselves only have miniature hints to their personalities because the developers didn't bother giving them support conversations to give some insight as to who they are.

For example, Vika looks so pretty and comes off nice for what she shows of herself, but there's just no story to her other than she's with Tormod and Muarim.

[Eurydice]

Owain. Just wasn't a fan of his "lol so random, here's a picture of a pancake on a mouse's head. " type of humour. 

[Jingle Jangle]

For me, the ones that I can think of for now are:

• Lewyn: When reading his description for FE4, I thought that was interesting having a characters that is so unheroic compared to most of the cast. What I got were nothing but flaws for the guy, with little to root for him.
• Gray: I was think of a laid back guy that is the right hand man to Alm before starting SoV. After the game, I disliked how this being desperate to Clair won her over. And there isn't much else to the dude.
• Keaton: I liked his voice in the JP version of Fates, and like his transformation to a werewolf. But the thing that annoys me about him is that 70% of his characters is that he collects trash. Not the most interesting of hobbies.

[Sasori]

56 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

 

• Keaton: I liked his voice in the JP version of Fates, and like his transformation to a werewolf. But the thing that annoys me about him is that 70% of his characters is that he collects trash. Not the most interesting of hobbies.

The trash collection is the reason why both Keaton and Velouria are on my list of characters I could't like, despite trying. Both are very well designed characters, but them going on about trash all the time doesn't really tell us anything about the characters and it stops being funny after the first time.

There is also Yukimura. Strategists are always cool and I liked his design. Sadly like all Corrinsexuals he only has one support and Yukimura ended up as one of the bigger victims of fate's writing. There was no reason for him to go berserk about Corrin going neutral when he is so chill about Corrin siding with the enemy.

[FootwaySublong]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:06 AM, DisobeyedCargo said:

this assumes she ever had a character

Flavia. She seems like she would be an awesome character... if only we got more than two supports for her.

I really liked Flavia and Basilio's relationship, though.

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, FootwaySublong said:

I really liked Flavia and Basilio's relationship, though.

We do have that, and the robin support... but that's it. Not even a Chrom support, which I'm sure could be a great support, with Flavian acting as a mentor of sorts for Chrom. But late game party members get no supports...

 

[FootwaySublong]

42 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

We do have that, and the robin support... but that's it. Not even a Chrom support, which I'm sure could be a great support, with Flavian acting as a mentor of sorts for Chrom. But late game party members get no supports...

 

Honestly with a Gregor and Lon'qu support Basilio could have been one of my favorite characters

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

Honestly with a Gregor and Lon'qu support Basilio could have been one of my favorite characters

Ikr the potential is right there!

i guess they put it where all of fates lost potential is to.

anyway so we're not off topic, ryoma, he's too perfect at everything.

[Jotari]

43 minutes ago, FootwaySublong said:

Honestly with a Gregor and Lon'qu support Basilio could have been one of my favorite characters

He has a pretty good conversation with Walhart in Hot Spring Scramble. Can't quite remember what it was about specifically, just that Basilio's uncouth personality clashed well with Walhart's formality. 

[Book Bro]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:53 AM, vanguard333 said:

Alm could have been a great character, but instead, he was bland, generic, treated as perfect, and right up to the edge of being a gary sue. 

*sigh* Yeah, Alm is another one. At first I really liked him, after all he's a nice guy and the game really does a good job of introducing you to him. Unfortunately that's about all the game does with him. Your analysis is spot on. It's why Celica is by far my preferred lord in SoV. Yes, she makes a dumb decision late in the plot, but at least she has actual moral struggles and faces challenges in the story. It felt like Alm just got everything handed to him, including Celica being the one who had to mess up so Alm could swoop in with the "I don't wanna say I told you so, but..." in the end. I don't hate the guy but he's pretty unremarkable all things considered. And so much potential, like you said. 

[Ertrick36]

On 5/9/2018 at 12:35 PM, Michelaar said:

Sigurd - I really wanted to like him since I find him really attractive, but he is just so bland and so overhyped in the fanbase that I just don't care enough, and like his son a LOT better.

Seliph is way more hype, definitely.

That being said, while I don't care too much about Sigurd for his personality, I do like the role he plays in the first generation's story.  It sets things up well for the ultimate fall in the 1st Generation as well as for what happens in the 2nd Generation.  I especially like the irony in him extending a kindness to Shannan in sheltering him, how that ultimately backfired as Alvis using it as evidence to prove Sigurd's "betrayal" (which was more of an "icing on the cake", but still).

Though yeah, I'm at least 80% confident that most people hype him for his Jeigan-like base stats and solid growth rates.  Which isn't much different from the Whitewings before supplementary material and New Mystery of the Emblem/Echoes could flesh them out better.

[DisobeyedCargo]

2 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Seliph is way more hype, definitely.

That being said, while I don't care too much about Sigurd for his personality, I do like the role he plays in the first generation's story.  It sets things up well for the ultimate fall in the 1st Generation as well as for what happens in the 2nd Generation.  I especially like the irony in him extending a kindness to Shannan in sheltering him, how that ultimately backfired as Alvis using it as evidence to prove Sigurd's "betrayal" (which was more of an "icing on the cake", but still).

Though yeah, I'm at least 80% confident that most people hype him for his Jeigan-like base stats and solid growth rates.  Which isn't much different from the Whitewings before supplementary material and New Mystery of the Emblem/Echoes could flesh them out better.

For what its worth, I've heard that the manga has an amazing portrayal of Sigurd, giving him a much better written character

 

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:27 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

The same goes for her brother. He looks so cool! But acts so dull! But he looks so cool! But he acts so dull!

He does nothing of note before you kill him, you hear he is strong, but see and feel nothing of it, Walhart at least "killed" Basilio. Valm didn't have enough time to really develop its villains. He has the presence of tree moss, the look and flavor of it too.

 

For me, the entirety of the Fates-SoV casts. I've kept them at arms length, not seeking to know them for better or worse, and I can't bring myself to actually discover them for the fear of them turning out poorly. The Awakening cast is nearly in this same category, I know some and some supports, but I don't remember too much. 

As for an actual character, Ephraim. I like you're a veteran warrior who is learned in the formal arts of war and are willing to carry out your princely duties related to warfare, this I like. But dang you're brash to the point of stupidity, and perfectly perfect outside of the stone smash second, suffer more and lose the stupidity.

Rennac, for some reason, I want to like this semi-scummy, semi-realistic thief, but alas, his supports are a little short of that.

Farina, well I do like her, but I want to like her more, and more specifically, FarinaxHector. Sadly, the support does not do enough to establish a solid foundation for romance by the end.

I like Stefan, but my liking for him has dulled a little compared to what it used to be, and I wish it didn't.

I guess Marth, he is regal, and I don't want characters that always gush with emotion and personality and who are subtle, but he can't help but be a little flat for me. Hector is the only lord I harbor any strong feelings for.

[kotaro]

There's a lot of fates characters I wanted to like because of their designs, but they ended up being lackluster in terms of character and were constantly abusing their gimmicks and usually never got to see much else beyond that. However the one character that really disappointing me was Corrin. Man I can't stand this special snowflake. Every character in fates gives nothing but praise to him and sucks up to him for no good reason at all. Corrin can do no wrong apparently. I felt like I was watching another generic harem anime where the main guy despite being uninteresting personality wise and isn't even attractive looks wise, still somehow gets a group full of girls to fall for him. He is by far the most boring and generic main protagonist/lord in any Fe game to date, and I would even go as far as to say the most boring main character I've seen in any rpg. He's/she's also clueless and dumb. (yeah cause the dancer you saw definitely doesn't look like Azura at all Corrin). Its unfortunate cause I actually really like Corrin's design. They have a cool concept being the first lord to actually turn into a dragon and the Yato as a weapon is also one of my favorite weapons in any game design wise.

Edited May 15, 2018 by kotaro

[FootwaySublong]

20 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

anyway so we're not off topic, ryoma, he's too perfect at everything.

i made a shitty write up on him on reddit in December, flame wars galore. his personality isnt what does him in, it's his hypocritical actions in conquest chapter 12 and 18.

[FootwaySublong]

19 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

For what its worth, I've heard that the manga has an amazing portrayal of Sigurd, giving him a much better written character

 

 

the shadow dragon manga also is pretty cool, even if it only goes to chapter 17. it's cool how michalis is hyped up as the main villain. wish he was given special treatment in fe1 and 11 lol

[Slumber]

19 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Seliph is way more hype, definitely.

That being said, while I don't care too much about Sigurd for his personality, I do like the role he plays in the first generation's story.  It sets things up well for the ultimate fall in the 1st Generation as well as for what happens in the 2nd Generation.  I especially like the irony in him extending a kindness to Shannan in sheltering him, how that ultimately backfired as Alvis using it as evidence to prove Sigurd's "betrayal" (which was more of an "icing on the cake", but still).

Though yeah, I'm at least 80% confident that most people hype him for his Jeigan-like base stats and solid growth rates.  Which isn't much different from the Whitewings before supplementary material and New Mystery of the Emblem/Echoes could flesh them out better.

See, I really DON'T like Seliph and not just because his cousin is just a way better character compared to Sigurd.

Like you hit here, Sigurd is an interesting concept, and that's something I can get behind, even if he is a pretty standard character. I really like that the "I'M GOING TO SAVE MY FRIENDS AND STAMP OUT CORRUPTION IN THE CONTINENT!" character gets brutally punished for being overzealous. It's fun to see a franchise, which rarely ever takes advantage of the obvious openings this leaves for a main character, really hammer home the idea that not all heroic deeds will be treated as such.

As much as he's a bit of a one-note character in this sense, that's approximately... like, a billion times more interesting than what Seliph brings to the table. Seliph is more or less just another Marth. In an age where Marth was the only Marth, that might have been neat. But there are enough Marths in the franchise to fill out a professional football team now, and Seliph is left as this nothing character. He has his "Oh, he lived his life on the run, and grew up in a harsh environment" backstory, but Leif did that in the next game, and actually put a lot of emphasis on this rather than just bringing it up occasionally in dialogue.

It just leaves Seliph as kind of a nothing character who has nothing that hasn't been done better going for him, destined to save the continent.

So Sigurd=Good concept, meh character, while Seliph=Meh concept, meh character.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Slumber

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, FootwaySublong said:

i made a shitty write up on him on reddit in December, flame wars galore. his personality isnt what does him in, it's his hypocritical actions in conquest chapter 12 and 18.

Those chapters completely pale in comparison to the hypocrisy he retroactively shows by lying to Corrin about their birthright to try and get them to join Hoshido. I know "Don't join them, they're not your real family. We're you're real family, because you spent a weak with us when you were six," wouldn't be the best argument to get someone on your side, but the fact remains that Ryoma actively lied about the connection Corrin has to Hoshido and only ever thinks to bring it up if things start getting too incestuous.

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

See, I really DON'T like Seliph and not just because his cousin is just a way better character compared to Sigurd.

Like you hit here, Sigurd is an interesting concept, and that's something I can get behind, even if he is a pretty standard character. I really like that the "I'M GOING TO SAVE MY FRIENDS AND STAMP OUT CORRUPTION IN THE CONTINENT!" character gets brutally punished for being overzealous. It's fun to see a franchise, which rarely ever takes advantage of the obvious openings this leaves for a main character, really hammer home the idea that not all heroic deeds will be treated as such.

As much as he's a bit of a one-note character in this sense, that's approximately... like, a billion times more interesting than what Seliph brings to the table. Seliph is more or less just another Marth. In an age where Marth was the only Marth, that might have been neat. But there are enough Marths in the franchise to fill out a professional football team now, and Seliph is left as this nothing character. He has his "Oh, he lived his life on the run, and grew up in a harsh environment" backstory, but Leif did that in the next game, and actually put a lot of emphasis on this rather than just bringing it up occasionally in dialogue.

It just leaves Seliph as kind of a nothing character who has nothing that hasn't been done better going for him, destined to save the continent.

So Sigurd=Good concept, meh character, while Seliph=Meh concept, meh character.

I don't think Sigurd was even that overzealous. Pretty much any protagonist would have made the same decisions as him. He just happened to have shit luck.

[Slumber]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't think Sigurd was even that overzealous. Pretty much any protagonist would have made the same decisions as him. He just happened to have shit luck.

His big crusade can be simplified as "Sigurd goes to rescue his childhood friend and starts a continental war."

He may not be a big, crazy, over-the-top character in his dialogue, but his actions say otherwise.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

His big crusade can be simplified as "Sigurd goes to rescue his childhood friend and starts a continental war."

He may not be a big, crazy, over-the-top character in his dialogue, but his actions say otherwise.

Yeah, but for the most part it's entirely accidental. He also is receiving orders from Grandbell at several points, most critically when he's ordered to first hold Evans and then later the half of Agustria he's conquered. A lot of the time he's just defending himself (really, really effectively). The only times he really attacks any one by his own volition is when he finishes of Verdane in Chapter 1 (that is to say after Adean is rescued) and then moves against Grandbell in Chapter 5, even the Silesea civil war probably has more to do with helping the woman that took him in more so than stamping out the corruption of Levin's uncles.

[Slumber]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, but for the most part it's entirely accidental. He also is receiving orders from Grandbell at several points, most critically when he's ordered to first hold Evans and then later the half of Agustria he's conquered. A lot of the time he's just defending himself (really, really effectively). The only times he really attacks any one by his own volition is when he finishes of Verdane in Chapter 1 (that is to say after Adean is rescued) and then moves against Grandbell in Chapter 5, even the Silesea civil war probably has more to do with helping the woman that took him in more so than stamping out the corruption of Levin's uncles.

As true as this is, the actions he does actively take are ultimately what lead to all of this, and eventually Arvis' trademark BBQ, which happens because Arvis manages to turn this into apparent(From the outside) reckless and downright treasonous actions.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Slumber

[Lightchao42]

45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Those chapters completely pale in comparison to the hypocrisy he retroactively shows by lying to Corrin about their birthright to try and get them to join Hoshido. I know "Don't join them, they're not your real family. We're you're real family, because you spent a weak with us when you were six," wouldn't be the best argument to get someone on your side, but the fact remains that Ryoma actively lied about the connection Corrin has to Hoshido and only ever thinks to bring it up if things start getting too incestuous.

Well to be fair Corrin was part of the family since they were a newborn, Corrin's mother married into the family, and Sumeragi didn't kidnap Corrin unlike Garon, so legally speaking Hoshido probably has a greater claim to being Corrin's "real" family than Nohr does. Of course "real family" is a subjective term anyway, but I'm just saying.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Lightchao42

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Well to be fair Corrin was part of the family since they were a newborn, Corrin's mother married into the family, and Sumeragi didn't kidnap Corrin unlike Garon, so legally speaking Hoshido probably has a greater claim to being Corrin's "real" family than Nohr does. Of course "real family" is a subjective term anyway, but I'm just saying.

And that's why it would matter if they didn't waste Mikoto as a character and kept her alive. But without her, it's people you spend two or three years with as a toddler, vs people you've spent fourteen or fifteen years with.