Would you want a way to change a unit’s color? Or a skill that could reverse the Weapon Triagle?

[bottlegnomes]

3 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Of course she can be good with the right set up. That’s not my point. The problem is, like Ice Dragon said, that she needs a set up to be good. Besides F!Grima has 3 weaknesses, Falchion/Naga, Bows and Raven Tomes. And yes, she does have skills in her base kit that helps deal with those weaknesses, but you have to give up the precious A and B skill slots for that. Meaning she would to have to give up many useful skills such as Quick Riposte, Renewal, Fury, Vantage, Death Blow and so on. Do you see the problem now?

Two of those are in no way related to being colorless. The third is literally just WTD.

Edited May 15, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Water Mage]

3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Two of those are in no way related to being colorless. The third is literally just WTD.

Yes, but if she wasn’t colorless it would be one less problem to deal with. Her being colorless does more harm thsn good. Plus it also means she won’t be able to fight back effectively. Honestly, F!Grima is arguably the weakest dragon unit currently.

[XRay]

I like the idea of Reaver Weapons. They can throw in Superior Weapons too while they are at it (Superior Edge has built in Swordbreaker, Superior Jolt got Tomebreaker, etc.).

3 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

RD there's virtually no penalty for dying.

I agree that there is no harsh penalty, but it is annoying to have your units die on the front lines and it takes reinforcements forever around two turns to fill in that gap. Having a color just makes things easier for a tank to do its job and reduce the enemy fortress to rubble in time.

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Feathers and resources. Not everyone's swimming in the characters with the necessary breakers/gem weapons.

I agree with @Xenomata. As long as a player is not free to play, minnows who spend $40 per month generally should have more than enough Gem Weapons and Breakers by this point if they started playing the game since launch.

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Other bold: Hinoka is the exact same as Lyn in my initial point, a rare unit who can counter well right out of the gate.

She needs Windsweep/Watersweep to reliably counter armor units. Armor units are really, really bulky, and if they all decide to run Moonbow-Steady/Warding Breath, WOF!Hinoka is toast as she does not have a safe unit to eat a counter from and activate Desperation.

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Armors have this thing where you attack them without weapon triangle advantage and you're kind of dead afterwards, especially on the oasis map where it's impractical to ever get an armor off of the fortification tiles. Myrrh and flying Grima kind of do, too.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Not really. Chipping is inferior to outright killing

Chipping is not practical everywhere, but it does have its place. Chipping is pretty great against armor teams since they are slow and you can take your time in annihilating them. It does not really matter if a Firesweep archer/healer is doing 0 damage as long as someone on the team does at least 1 HP worth of damage, as Poison Strike/Savage Blow from the Firesweeper does the rest.

Edited May 15, 2018 by XRay

[bottlegnomes]

31 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Yes, but if she wasn’t colorless it would be one less problem to deal with.

It wouldn't though. It would just change what she's weak to, and arguably something that's more common. If she was green, base kit Sanaki is no different for her than TA3 Cecilia.

 

26 minutes ago, XRay said:

I agree that there is no harsh penalty, but it is annoying to have your units die on the front lines and it takes reinforcements forever around two turns to fill in that gap. Having a color just makes things easier for a tank to do its job and reduce the enemy fortress to rubble in time.

I agree with @Xenomata. As long as a player is not free to play, minnows who spend $40 per month generally should have more than enough Gem Weapons and Breakers by this point if they started playing the game since launch.

She needs Windsweep/Watersweep to reliably counter armor units. Armor units are really, really bulky, and if they all decide to run Moonbow-Steady/Warding Breath, WOF!Hinoka is toast as she does not have a safe unit to eat a counter from and activate Desperation.

I don't disagree that colors help tanks in general, but Lyn isn't exactly a great tank even against her WTA color was my point, and her being able to cover more seems like it would be nicer than her being able to cover one aspect a little better. Like I said, she'll never be against magic what Shiro is versus swords, but see my point below.

Bold would explain my issues then :\ But that aside, yeah, it's not super hard to get a setup, and I probably was being argumentative, but one thing being green gives Lyn is hard-countering for when you need to take on a +10 Reinhardt and you've already used all four of your built TA3 green mages.

Yeah, Hinoka's really frail. I feel like that'd almost be a point in favor of colored nukes. They have a better chance of OHKOing those pesky bulky units. Reinhardt trivializes Zelgius to an extreme extent, and I'm not sure/too lazy to check if he would if he was colorless, though thinking about it, he probably would.

 

Anyway, @Ice Dragon @Water Mage, did some checking, and she can't survive Memehardt if she's colorless. You literally could've just said that and I wouldn't be arguing. I still don't think being colorless or not is as big a deal as people make sometimes, but that particular niche (Memehardt counter), while not as necessary as it once was, is still a pretty big benefit.

Edited May 15, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Water Mage]

2 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

It wouldn't though. It would just change what she's weak to, and arguably something that's more common. If she was green, base kit Sanaki is no different for her than TA3 Cecilia.

Anyway, @Ice Dragon @Water Mage, did some checking, and she can't survive Memehardt if she's colorless. You literally could've just said that and I wouldn't be arguing. I still don't think being colorless or not is as big a deal as people make sometimes, but that particular niche (Memehardt counter), while not as necessary as it once was, is still a pretty big benefit.

For the first paragraph, not being colorless would make her a better tank because she would resist a color, colorless doesn’t resist any color and is weak to raven tomes.

For the second paragraph, I didn’t mention Reinhardt because I thought it was obvious she wouldn’t survive him? F!Grima really isn’t a good tank outside of flying teams.

[bottlegnomes]

18 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

For the first paragraph, not being colorless would make her a better tank because she would resist a color, colorless doesn’t resist any color and is weak to raven tomes.

For the second paragraph, I didn’t mention Reinhardt because I thought it was obvious she wouldn’t survive him? F!Grima really isn’t a good tank outside of flying teams.

Fair to the first.

To the second, honestly just slipped my mind, and then I wanted to actually make sure. I mean if Julius can survive him, maybe Lyn could've? That was basically where my head was at. I do still stand by it not being nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be sometimes when units aren't routinely tanking swaths of enemies.

Edited May 15, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Water Mage]

7 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I do still stand by it not being nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be sometimes when units aren't routinely tanking swaths of enemies.

Well, not every good unit can tank. For example, Elincia and Cordelia are considered top tier and can barely take a hit.

[Xenomata]

Also I just wanna throw out that I forgot that Micaiah had Thani, how did I do that she is my other main armor crusher.

Also what in Mila's name happened to this thread, this is not how I remember conversation progression happening.

[bottlegnomes]

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

Also what in Mila's name happened to this thread, this is not how I remember conversation progression happening.

My bad v_v

[The_antithesis]

An easy way to tell who is using a reaver weapon in the UI would be to change the colour. A turqiose sword for a lancereaver; a purple axe for a swordreaver; and a yellow lance for an axereaver!