Special heroes of the 21st May

[Lewyn]

2 hours ago, Alkaid said:

This is a T-rated game, so no we can't.

The fact the discussion has leaped from a girl just wearing a wedding dress to horse porn comparisons shows just how ridiculous the reaction has managed to get. It's getting blown way out of proportion beyond just disliking her alt and moving on, as it probably should have been. You are free to voice your opinion, but I think some people must be much more sensitive than the average person to see this banner and jump to "this is pedophile pandering and going to help perpetuate child abuse" as their initial thought. But I guess when some people also jump on Helbindi as a being a racist depiction of black people I shouldn't be too surprised. People need to chill out these days.

I mean it isn't a jump at all.  We have sex slave Nowi in Awakening, child bearing Elise in Fates as well.  I mean c'mon who is bride Sanaki supposed to draw in?  It is obvious.  Same as Halloween Nowi.  Lolicons.  Sanaki even says "Don't get any weird ideas".  So can we drop this is just a little girl playing dress up and its all innocent and isn't pandering to pedos?  It is, that is pretty much a fact even if IS won't admit it cause it may get them in a lot of trouble in other countries.

2 hours ago, XRay said:

Fire Emblem Heroes is rated T with suggestive themes, and it also does not have sexually explicit material in the game. Sanaki in a wedding dress is fair game. If it really bothers that many players, they can simply ignore the Focus. Fire Emblem Heroes also is not the only turn based strategy mobile game out there, so it is not like gamers do not have options.

I mean everyone is free to complain about things they dislike in the game.  Child bride, ew.  I think that is a normal reaction and people shouldn't have to leave the game and just pretend hey this is all cool.  

People who are attracted to kids can't help it, but I don't think games and other media should pander to them.  Cause it is really messed up, it shouldn't be promoted as "normal" or whatever.  The amount of child predators/molestors is absolutely shocking.  Countless people are registered sex offenders for doing such a thing.  

[thanny]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

I mean it isn't a jump at all.  We have sex slave Nowi in Awakening, child bearing Elise in Fates as well.

What in the world? You’re telling me that an average person who sees Nowi is instantly going to assume that she is a sex slave? I don’t know what sorts of fantasies you have in your mind but she explicitly said the men made her transform into a dragon to dance, not to do anything thing you were even mildly suggesting. What’s the problem with Elise bearing a child? Did she get raped? No. Did she want a child? Yes. Does she make an excellent parent? Yes. What is the problem? Did you know the earliest age someone can conceive birth is at the age of five?

If you’re geniunely bothered by everything IS has, oh so horribly shoved into their franchise, then why are you still continuing buying and supporting Fire Emblem?

[Lewyn]

6 minutes ago, thanny said:

What in the world? You’re telling me that an average person who sees Nowi is instantly going to assume that she is a sex slave? I don’t know what sorts of fantasies you have in your mind but she explicitly said the men made her transform into a dragon to dance, not to do anything thing you were even mildly suggesting. What’s the problem with Elise bearing a child? Did she get raped? No. Did she want a child? Yes. Does she make an excellent parent? Yes. What is the problem? Did you know the earliest age someone can conceive birth is at the age of five?

If you’re geniunely bothered by everything IS has, oh so horribly shoved into their franchise, then why are you still continuing buying and supporting Fire Emblem?

Let's see, Nowi shows up wearing barely anything, an outfit that this group of men made her wear.  She is forced to do tricks.  I mean what do you think they did with her?  You as the avatar can also marry this 1000 year old dragon that looks like a 10 year old child and have her bear your children.  Elise is also prepubescent and you  marry her despite being her brother, or marry her off to someone else to bear their children.  I mean how are children made?

Fates and Awakening, those parts of it, as well as some of the pandering in Heroes is just a serious misstep in an otherwise excellent respectful series.  

[thanny]

16 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Let's see, Nowi shows up wearing barely anything, an outfit that this group of men made her wear.  She is forced to do tricks.  I mean what do you think they did with her?  You as the avatar can also marry this 1000 year old dragon that looks like a 10 year old child and have her bear your children.  Elise is also prepubescent and you  marry her despite being her brother, or marry her off to someone else to bear their children.  I mean how are children made?

Fates and Awakening, those parts of it, as well as some of the pandering in Heroes is just a serious misstep in an otherwise excellent respectful series.  

I’ll say it again, no where in her dialogue between her and Lissa in her recruitment chapter does she explicitly say or even imply that the men that kidnapped her did anything remotely sexual to her. You’re twisting the word ‘trick’ just to prove your point. How about let’s look at Nowi in a non-sexual point of view? For me, the reason why the men that kidnapped her dressed her that way is so everytime she transforms, they don’t have to spend a fortune to replace her clothes each time she turns into a dragon. See? It isn’t that hard to look at something innocent without such a corrupted perception. You seem to be deadset on the idea of Nowi being a sex slave so it’s more of your own personal problem rather than the devs. Is the legal age 18? Yes. Is Nowi over 18? Yes. Does she want to start a relationship and family with the Avatar? Yes. So, what is the problem? 

Regarding Elise, is it consensual? YES. I personally find it weird that she can develop a relationship with the Avatar after regarding each other as siblings for so long too, but it’s explicitly stated they’re not blood related and the feelings are mutual. Marry her off? Unless she’s being sold as a sex slave like you think Nowi is in her supports, she’s properly developing a relationship with another character. So I repeat the question, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? 

[Tenzen12]

6 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I also don't understand the Nowi is a 1000 years old so its okay!  I mean she is a dragon so human age wise she is like 10 or something.  Same with Elise.  The point isn't their actual ages, these aren't actual people, the point is they are completely undeveloped prepubescent children physically.  Being presented as brides, which means yes it appeals to lolicons.  

Nino actually has a chest, even if she is real young too. Also the thing with Caeda and Lyn, they are supposed to be 13, 14 whatever.  They look like developed women so being attracted to them is to be expected, the age is just a number for a fictional character. 

Yes and I'm sure some people have had lewd fantasies with all those characters however that is fine that can't be controlled.  However Myrrh, Y Tiki, Mist (also like Nino developed or at least starting to develop so like Nino very different from the other examles) are all portrayed perfectly fine in this game.  Nothing inappropriate at all.  Sanaki is presented as a child bride, bride banners are suppose to make waifu hunters go wild so there is a problem.  She is there for people who fantasize about child brides.  

No.  As I said those other child characters are fine.  We all know who Nowi's design was intended for.  Loli is a big thing in anime as well, FEH is trying to capitalize on that audience and it is quite obvious with Nowi, H! Nowi, Summer Elise, and now bride Sanaki.  

I am not arguing about Nowi or Elisse. N3DS are not called waifu wars for nothing, but indiscrimately bash all young characters in franchise without properly looking on intend behind creating them, is much bigger problem, in first place why are ok with game using child soldiers yet go into rage over some of them being sexualised?

3 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Problem or not, it still begs the question: Why Sanaki as a 'Child Bride' anyway? Did they not see that it would have some controversy in certain countries? Was it even worth it to spend a slot on a gacha game's seasonal banner for a joke or pandering to such a subset of the audience while potentially offending or putting off others within the overall audience?

Such a waste.

Because it's cute, of course ...and she is not bride.

To be honest yes IS should have been aware that people looking for controversy will jump on it as vulture on corpse, but real waste would be trying conform such agressive groups. As long as IS is willing adress actual issues it doesn't matter how many pseudo problems they ignore. Pleasing some people simply is not worthy of effort.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Tenzen12

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I don't think games and other media should pander to them.

I see nothing wrong with pandering to people's desires for money, especially if it is legal. There is nothing wrong with Sanaki being in a wedding dress.

42 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

You as the avatar can also marry this 1000 year old dragon that looks like a 10 year old child and have her bear your children.  Elise is also prepubescent and you  marry her despite being her brother, or marry her off to someone else to bear their children.  I mean how are children made?

And what is wrong with that? No one real is getting hurt and no real child is being married off.

2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Fates and Awakening, those parts of it, as well as some of the pandering in Heroes is just a serious misstep in an otherwise excellent respectful series.  

How is pandering a misstep? Does pandering really detract from the quality of the game? Does it really cause a net loss in sales?

If anything, I see incorporating waifus and appealing to a target audience that spends more money as the farthest things from being missteps.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I see nothing wrong with pandering to people's desires for money, especially if it is legal. There is nothing wrong with Sanaki being in a wedding dress.

And what is wrong with that? No one real is getting hurt and no real child is being married off.

How is pandering a misstep? Does pandering really detract from the quality of the game? Does it really cause a net loss in sales?

If anything, I see incorporating waifus and appealing to a target audience that spends more money as the farthest things from being missteps.

It isn't a real child, no one is directly getting hurt.  However it is normalizing child marriage and pedophilia.  

I don't know the effect on sales, surely it turns off many people in the west.  However in Japan lolicon is a big group I assume, considering it is part of anime and other media.  It definitely hurts its overall reputation.

Waifus, yes in this game like all gacha it is a big part.  Go ahead and put Camillia in a skimpy string bikini, or Ike in a thong or whatever turns people on.  Though some might think that is too much there won't be much outrage.  Stuff like child brides and such is enough to get people to quit the game and take their business elsewhere for that alone.  It also hurts not only the rep of Fire Emblem (why so many old fans are upset about Fates petting and marrying underage characters like Elise or Nowi in Awakening) but the reputation of Nintendo as well.

 

[Thane]

3 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

(why so many old fans are upset about Fates petting and marrying underage characters like Elise or Nowi in Awakening)

This is not a "new vs. old fans" kind of thing. The fandom can't be split up into easily distinguishable groups, and they are certainly not a hive mind. If you think someone like me, who started with Awakening, wants face petting and the ability to S support units at the cost of the themes of the game, then you're wrong.

[XRay]

15 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

However it is normalizing child marriage and pedophilia.

Grand Theft Auto does not normalize criminal activity anymore than BB!Sanaki normalizes child marriages. By the same token, Pokémon does not normalize cock/dog fights and Mortal Combat does not normalize extreme violence.

People are not so stupid and ethically corrupt to think child marriage is okay in real life just because they see it being okay in fiction. Blaming media content for the wrongs in society does nothing to address real life issues, and in cases where there is not even an issue at all (e.g.: Dungeons and Dragons), the moral panic causes more harm than good by demonizing innocent people just because they are different, and that is not definitely not okay.

As long as a pedophile keeps their urges in check and do not predate on children, they deserve to be treated as normal people. Painting them as monsters for no reason is counter productive and is no different from abusing and bullying people.

[eclipse]

Since we already have the banner topic, and this topic is slowly spiraling downwards, I'm locking it.

Try to see it from the PoV of a child that was abused.