Story changes in a Radiant Dawn remake?

[Jotari]

Just now, Anacybele said:

I disagree. I felt even Tellius had better sibling relationships in the form of Oscar, Boyd, and Rolf. I loved those three and their relationship so much that they're my favorite siblings in the series. You have to dig a bit to find everything on them, but it's there. From Boyd's story to Ike about how Oscar left the knights to care for his brothers after their dad died, to Rolf and Boyd bickering more than once throughout both games, to discovering Rolf's mom in Begnion and Rolf choosing to stay with his brothers, it's so touching!

Main Character.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And yet, outside of Ephraim and Eirika, it's probably the best developed sibling relationship any main character has in the series.

Chrom, Emmeryn, and Lissa handled themselves well in my opinion.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Jotari said:

Main Character.

Oh, I missed that part, sorry.

But still, the fact that I felt more minor characters had better sibling writing than Ike and Mist, major characters, is a bit sad. xP

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Oh, I missed that part, sorry.

But still, the fact that I felt more minor characters had better sibling writing than Ike and Mist, major characters, is a bit sad. xP

Well when it comes to minor characters, that's all they really have. All their screen time can be used to develop such relationships. Ike and most other lords in the series need to have the bulk of their writing be plot focused. Now not disagreeing at all that Ike and Mist should have had a support, they absolutely should have, but I can see why they didn't. The relationship is established pretty well in the main story and they probably wanted to devote Ike's supports to some characters he wouldn't naturally be interacting with in the story as much like Lethe and Stefan.

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Chrom, Emmeryn, and Lissa handled themselves well in my opinion.

Ike and Mist being better doesn't make Chrom and co bad (although I don't think Emmeryn sticks around long enough for me to really think of her as we written in that department). None of the sibling relationships are particularly bad, even super minimalist Marth and Elice is handled well. Mist is just handled better than them all by virtue of having more reason to exist and more impact on the story as a result imo (I should be able to say the same thing about the Fates siblings...but then incest).

[Alistair]

Quick question as I never played the game: doesn't Radiant Dawn have generic supports? I feel like that's something IS would add in a remake. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Alistair

[Modamy]

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not saying Ike can't enjoy a good spar every now and then. But that doesn't mean he wants it so bad that he'll give up his family and everything he'd prepared himself for throughout at least PoR in order to get those spars. I feel like Ike just abandoning all that kills the point of his development into a strong leader and good warrior to keep the Greil Mercs going for years and years, at least until he would pass the torch onto one of his children or an apprentice or something.

Also, his ending didn't even say anything about looking for strong opponents. It just said he went to explore lands unknown, which was never something he ever indicated wanting to do.

I don't think going off on his own undoes his development especially not when he's helped the Greil Mercenaries find fame and recognition across the continent and the members are strong enough even without Ike. I never found Ike's development to be about keeping the Greil mercenaries alive either, they could have sustained themselves fine under Titania's command. Ike's development was about living up to and surpassing his father. Also considering his dialogue with Caineghis I can't see him leaving to do anything other than find new opponents.

I honestly dislike the idea that he would shackle himself to other people who have proven they are strong enough to take care of themselves when he wants to go out and do something else with his life.

Quote

You almost make me feel like Part 2 should have been about Sanaki, instead of Elincia (Elincia ends up stealing like all of the Begnion playable characters anyway for some reason).

I would also like a part 2.5 about what Sanaki goes through in Begnion until she meets up with Ike and Elincia.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Well when it comes to minor characters, that's all they really have. All their screen time can be used to develop such relationships. Ike and most other lords in the series need to have the bulk of their writing be plot focused. Now not disagreeing at all that Ike and Mist should have had a support, they absolutely should have, but I can see why they didn't. The relationship is established pretty well in the main story and they probably wanted to devote Ike's supports to some characters he wouldn't naturally be interacting with in the story as much like Lethe and Stefan.

Yeah, Ike did have a buttload of planned supports, and a couple were cut too. I still wish we could've seen that Ike/Zihark conversation set. So I can see why an Ike/Mist support was not added, but I do feel that in a remake/remaster of the game, they could definitely add all the previously cut supports. The Switch and probably the 3DS as well would be able to handle all the data.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, Ike did have a buttload of planned supports, and a couple were cut too. I still wish we could've seen that Ike/Zihark conversation set. So I can see why an Ike/Mist support was not added, but I do feel that in a remake/remaster of the game, they could definitely add all the previously cut supports. The Switch and probably the 3DS as well would be able to handle all the data.

Path of Radiance remake will have Ike S-supporting everybody in the game. EVERYONE.

5 minutes ago, Alistair said:

Quick question as I never played the game: doesn't Radiant Dawn have generic supports? I feel like that's something IS would add in a remake. 

You mean remove, right?

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Jotari

[Dragoncat]

I second everybody saying Ike's ending makes no sense.

Also lol Tormod "being abducted by aliens".

Give the Dawn Brigade more character development.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Path of Radiance remake will have Ike S-supporting everybody in the game. EVERYONE.

lol that would just be totally weird and yet perhaps amusing too. I can't see Ike realistically wanting to S support certain characters though, even if he was gay or bi. I mean, Makalov...? Wut. And Mist? That's just gross. xP

EDIT: Oh yeah, Dcat's right about the DB. Give them more development and make them less boring.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Anacybele

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Modamy said:

I don't think going off on his own undoes his development especially not when he's helped the Greil Mercenaries find fame and recognition across the continent and the members are strong enough even without Ike. I never found Ike's development to be about keeping the Greil mercenaries alive either, they could have sustained themselves fine under Titania's command. Ike's development was about living up to and surpassing his father. Also considering his dialogue with Caineghis I can't see him leaving to do anything other than find new opponents.

I honestly dislike the idea that he would shackle himself to other people who have proven they are strong enough to take care of themselves when he wants to go out and do something else with his life.

That isn't the problem though. The Greil Mercenaries has been what Ike's grown up through. It's the most of his memories after having his mind wiped of Greil killing Ike's mom. The Greil Mercenaries are basically his family, and after Greil died, the Greil Mercenaries were all Ike had left. The Greil Mercenaries was the legacy that Ike has known from his father, not his father being the godlike swordsman known as Gawain. Yeah, Ike has grown strong enough to inherit Greil's legacy in swordsmanship, but the Greil Mercenaries are still the most of the legacy.

The others being fine without Ike is not a matter of them being strong or weak, but rather Ike leaving basically means he's leaving his father's legacy behind, and his family as well. If Ike does leave, at least make it be more understood why he would, but they didn't do that. The subtle signs are too subtle that it feels almost forced. Not to mention, does Ike even consult with the others about his leaving? No, sounds like he just up and leaves.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That isn't the problem though. The Greil Mercenaries has been what Ike's grown up through. It's the most of his memories after having his mind wiped of Greil killing Ike's mom. The Greil Mercenaries are basically his family, and after Greil died, the Greil Mercenaries were all Ike had left. The Greil Mercenaries was the legacy that Ike has known from his father, not his father being the godlike swordsman known as Gawain. Yeah, Ike has grown strong enough to inherit Greil's legacy in swordsmanship, but the Greil Mercenaries are still the most of the legacy.

The others being fine without Ike is not a matter of them being strong or weak, but rather Ike leaving basically means he's leaving his father's legacy behind, and his family as well. If Ike does leave, at least make it be more understood why he would, but they didn't do that. The subtle signs are too subtle that it feels almost forced. Not to mention, does Ike even consult with the others about his leaving? No, sounds like he just up and leaves.

Yeah, all this exactly!

[Modamy]

I really don't find Ike's ending to be all that poorly handled and I thought it was established decently, but I was never certain if he actually left the Greil Mercenaries but

Scarlet-Haired Paladin – Titania

Titania remained second in command of the mercenaries. Once a year, she visited the graves of her fallen friends.

If Titania's ending is anything to go by, even if Ike leaves Tellius the Greil Mercs just go with him.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

So, personally, I would expand part 1 and add more development for Daein and the DB.

Part 2 would be completely changed. Entirely. Still have Elincia in it though but make it overall more story relevant.

Part 3 would be expanded and put more focus on Skrimir and the LA (and add Tormod). Daein entering and all those fights should take up more time and focus more on Daein's side to help fix the blood pact and other plot issues. Maybe even make it it's own short part ala Part 2.

Part 4 would also be longer to allow more development for everyone and what's going on.

Give Yune her own body. Give Mist a bigger part in the plot! Also give Micaiah a personal tome (that isn't Thani)! Change Ike's ending dernit. His ending is horrible xD Give us Pelleas sooner or add another dark magic user.

[thecrimsonflash]

My biggest problem that I would like to see addressed is Ike and Mist's relationship, it seems like such a waste, especially given that mist is one of (if not) the best setup little sisters in the series.

I also think that establishing the blood pact better would be a good move to make as well, I think the best way would be in a PoR remake just to not have it suddenly pop out of nowhere.

finally give Ike a better ending or better establish why Ike is leaving, also give him an ending with mist, his ending sounds more like a mid life crisis death march to the top of mount everest, than a proper send off to a beloved character, as far as anyone knows the only thing outside of tellius is water that is it, these "lands unknown" sound more like they had another sequel planned where Ike found something and hijinks ensue, otherwise, he died at sea.

[Etrurian emperor]

38 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Also lol Tormod "being abducted by aliens".

Its the only reason for his absence that makes sense 

[darkblade2814]

Make Ike's Paired endings with Soren and Ranulf explictly romantic

[Dragoncat]

53 minutes ago, darkblade2814 said:

Make Ike's Paired endings with Soren and Ranulf explictly romantic

You're going to turn this into a flame war...

To each their own but I'm just saying Ike's sexuality has been a hot button topic in the past.

[omegaxis1]

25 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

You're going to turn this into a flame war...

To each their own but I'm just saying Ike's sexuality has been a hot button topic in the past.

I don't think they'll ever change it.

But... knowing how IS goes, there's a good chance that Priam will get involved. After all, Echoes was used to make a nice Easter Egg to Awakening.

[Alistair]

@Jotari Yeah I meant remove.

[darkblade2814]

33 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I don't think they'll ever change it.

But... knowing how IS goes, there's a good chance that Priam will get involved. After all, Echoes was used to make a nice Easter Egg to Awakening.

Priam could be a direct descendent of Mist and Byod, allowing Ike to be the one Gay FE lord, (Lyn and Corrin are Bi)

Edited July 2, 2018 by darkblade2814

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, darkblade2814 said:

Priam could be a direct descendent of Mist and Byod, allowing Ike to be the one Gay FE lord, (Lyn and Corrin are Bi)

Whether they will ever confirm that is questionable. But give that Priam has Ragnell and what seems to be the tattered remains of Ike's cape, the connection to Mist is less likely.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its the only reason for his absence that makes sense 

Sounds like something Naruto (the series) would do. 

Spoiler

Didn't aliens literally kidnap Hinata ? 

I agree we needed to see the LEA in part three. 

OT: The Apostle's Army crossing into Daein makes no sense. Make it so that Daein allows them to pass through after they request to pass through. Certain elements of the blood pact need better and more consistent explanation. Add support conversations that give more buildup into character endings such as Micaiah being Queen of Daein and Ike leaving Tellius. Give Micaiah some dialogue with Yune at the end when she talks with Ike in spirit form. Chapter 3-10 should be played from Elincia's perspective and it should be made clear that Crimea no longer needs to rely on Ike since that was the whole point of part two. Chapter 3-11 should be played from the Dawn Brigade's perspective because if Micaiah was on the other side of the bridge, why wasn't she in command? Instead they could make the GM playable against general Maeil if we needed to see a fanatical general. It should be explained that the reason Ike was chosen to kill Ashera is because Yune has an easier time blessing weaponry, especially one that's been blessed by Ashera herself. Furthermore, explicitly state that Ike is the strongest swordsmen which makes him the best candidate to finish Ashera instead of it being seen as unexplained favoritism to the main character (not even the true one). 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

And yet, outside of Ephraim and Eirika, it's probably the best developed sibling relationship any main character has in the series.

I liked the relationship between Micaiah and Sanaki. Mist and Ike were done fairly well in PoR but in RD that relationship felt kind of weak. 

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, and omegaxis and I did have a conversation about this very topic, so I'm aware of some things.

I would have less issue with the ending if we were just given a damn reasonable explanation instead of it coming out of nowhere and giving a DAMN good reason for Ike to break a promise he made to his damn sister of all people!

Which reminds me, and this would actually go for PoR too, I'd like Ike and Mist's relationship as siblings explored more. As much as I love Ike and the character writing of Tellius in general, one of the few flaws, imo, is how underdeveloped their relationship is. They care about each other, but it's not shown much. They don't even have any support conversations or many base conversations where they interact! I think Ike interacts with Elincia and Soren more than he does his precious little sister and Mist seems to interact more with Rolf than her big brother. Let us see them doing some usual amusing sibling bickering or something to show how hard it is to cope with the loss of their father and such. Show us them growing closer by being able to overcome those things!

The best we got here was their conversation during the ship scene in PoR where they got marooned at Goldoa. And that wasn't much.

I changed my mind about Ike's ending after seeing a custom made support conversation. It'd make sense that Ike doesn't want people constantly needing him to fix his problems and it's probably best for Tellius that way as well. He should make secret occasional visits to the Greil Mercenaries though. 

 

[Anacybele]

11 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I changed my mind about Ike's ending after seeing a custom made support conversation. It'd make sense that Ike doesn't want people constantly needing him to fix his problems and it's probably best for Tellius that way as well. He should make secret occasional visits to the Greil Mercenaries though.

That's a pretty nice conversation, and it would even actually be a decent foreshadowing to my main FE fic since Ike mentions that he might get "swept up into a new conflict elsewhere" and all. But he doesn't talk about wanting to find stronger opponents here, he's just tired of some crap he's had to go through. He doesn't talk about how he might miss Mist and the mercs from time to time or anything. He doesn't mention them even once except when he brings up how Titania and Soren advised and guided him in PoR. I feel like he at least should've noted that they would miss him and he'd miss them too. And that Mist would probably be the one to hate him for leaving if anything.

Otherwise, this would've made me more comfortable with the ending.

[omegaxis1]

Spoiler

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Sounds like something Naruto (the series) would do. 

  Hide contents

Didn't aliens literally kidnap Hinata ? 

Spoiler

Technically, it was the descendant of an alien, but technically speaking, Hinata the descendant of an alien as well, same as Naruto and Sasuke. 

Sakura remains as the odd one left out.

 

4 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

OT: The Apostle's Army crossing into Daein makes no sense. Make it so that Daein allows them to pass through after they request to pass through. Certain elements of the blood pact need better and more consistent explanation. Add support conversations that give more buildup into character endings such as Micaiah being Queen of Daein and Ike leaving Tellius. Give Micaiah some dialogue with Yune at the end when she talks with Ike in spirit form. Chapter 3-10 should be played from Elincia's perspective and it should be made clear that Crimea no longer needs to rely on Ike since that was the whole point of part two. Chapter 3-11 should be played from the Dawn Brigade's perspective because if Micaiah was on the other side of the bridge, why wasn't she in command? Instead they could make the GM playable against general Maeil if we needed to see a fanatical general. It should be explained that the reason Ike was chosen to kill Ashera is because Yune has an easier time blessing weaponry, especially one that's been blessed by Ashera herself. Furthermore, explicitly state that Ike is the strongest swordsmen which makes him the best candidate to finish Ashera instead of it being seen as unexplained favoritism to the main character (not even the true one). 

4

Or they could change it so that it's Micaiah that finishes of Ashera, or maybe have both Micaiah and Ike finish her off at the least. 

14 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I changed my mind about Ike's ending after seeing a custom made support conversation. It'd make sense that Ike doesn't want people constantly needing him to fix his problems and it's probably best for Tellius that way as well. He should make secret occasional visits to the Greil Mercenaries though. 

 

Damn, that is one intense conversation. See, this would help so much.