Brave Veronica. Is she the new horse monster?

[Midnox]

We have yet to reach out first week after these new BHs. Brave Veronica is now a troubadour. While an excellent support, she may face people dismissing her as a potential combatant..... or is it? We know her selling point is support, but we may be at the face of a new mounted nightmare. Just ask Legion

 

[XRay]

4 minutes ago, Midnox said:

she may face people dismissing her as a potential combatant..... or is it?

Sounds like you have not faced Pain-Savage Blow-Savage Blow before. Healers can be terrifying.

5 minutes ago, Midnox said:

We know her selling point is support

Her selling point is offense, just like Elise and Maribelle.

[Astellius]

While Veronica is certainly a strong unit, I don't think she's bringing anything particularly novel or fearsome to the meta. It's not as though the razzle-dazzle combo is new, and we've already had, e.g., Priscillas running around with Pain+ with stacked Savage Blows. Those can prove to be a real nuisance in the Arena, particularly if you're running EP units. After Priscilla dropped in rarity, I saw a spike in the number of them running around. Thankfully, I see less around now, possibly in part to outscoring that range in the Arena. But I certainly don't expect any radical shift in the current meta from Veronica, certainly nothing like what happened last year with Brave Lyn.

That said, I think that healers just generally tend to get underestimated and underappreciated. Razzle-dazzle is amazing, Gravity+ can allow you to kite for days, and Pain+ & double Savage Blow lets you decimate armies with a single attack. Veronica's new buffing/debuffing AoE is also pretty fantastic. Of the four new CYL heroes, she was the one I wanted most, and she surely does not disappoint!

[Midnox]

30 minutes ago, Astellius said:

.

That said, I think that healers just generally tend to get underestimated and underappreciated. Razzle-dazzle is amazing, Gravity+ can allow you to kite for days, and Pain+ & double Savage Blow lets you decimate armies with a single attack. Veronica's new buffing/debuffing AoE is also pretty fantastic. Of the four new CYL heroes, she was the one I wanted most, and she surely does not disappoint!

So did I, but being predicted to be a colorless staff back them scared me, since she went second place on the women's division, and Brave Lucina and Brave Roy got the shaft last year, and they were both second. Glad Veronica is more than capable to hold her own

[Hilda]

28 minutes ago, Astellius said:

While Veronica is certainly a strong unit, I don't think she's bringing anything particularly novel or fearsome to the meta. It's not as though the razzle-dazzle combo is new, and we've already had, e.g., Priscillas running around with Pain+ with stacked Savage Blows. Those can prove to be a real nuisance in the Arena, particularly if you're running EP units. After Priscilla dropped in rarity, I saw a spike in the number of them running around. Thankfully, I see less around now, possibly in part to outscoring that range in the Arena. But I certainly don't expect any radical shift in the current meta from Veronica, certainly nothing like what happened last year with Brave Lyn.

That said, I think that healers just generally tend to get underestimated and underappreciated. Razzle-dazzle is amazing, Gravity+ can allow you to kite for days, and Pain+ & double Savage Blow lets you decimate armies with a single attack. Veronica's new buffing/debuffing AoE is also pretty fantastic. Of the four new CYL heroes, she was the one I wanted most, and she surely does not disappoint!

actually she bring alot of new stuff support wise for healers and debuff wise. And i wouldnt underestimate her. As a standalone she definitly isnt fearsome, but it all depends on her Team-composition. I paired her for now with my Main Team Gunnthra B!Ike and Clair (i swaped out Saizo for her) just to see the Defense wins. While my original Team gets me tons of Defense wins too, this one is taking the cake, so Veronica is doing something right.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Brave Veronica is a fucking mistake that shouldnt happen. By giving Horse Healer with built in kit as a free pick to everyone, it would make Horse Healer went from "that cancerous build that thankfully nobody really want to build this" into "just pick Veronica EZ" and the publicity of her as a character will make Horse Healer shows up in Arena, something that SHOULDNT happened

 

 

Like

 

Remember during hero fest 1? when people was mad Hector got a banner, and for like the next 3 months Takumi/Cellica/Azura/Hector squad was super common? It was heaven because Hector is a joke, nobody uses the good Takumi Build, and Ryoma is eh so that team was really Azura carrying deadweghts

This is that, except the unit in mind that become more common is actually cancer

[Hilda]

20 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Brave Veronica is a fucking mistake that shouldnt happen. By giving Horse Healer with built in kit as a free pick to everyone, it would make Horse Healer went from "that cancerous build that thankfully nobody really want to build this" into "just pick Veronica EZ" and the publicity of her as a character will make Horse Healer shows up in Arena, something that SHOULDNT happened

 

 

Like

 

Remember during hero fest 1? when people was mad Hector got a banner, and for like the next 3 months Takumi/Cellica/Azura/Hector squad was super common? It was heaven because Hector is a joke, nobody uses the good Takumi Build, and Ryoma is eh so that team was really Azura carrying deadweghts

This is that, except the unit in mind that become more common is actually cancer

I dont see the problem. She can be dispatched with high res units. But i guess she counters too many Dragons and Armorers that cant deal with it <3 and requires Teams to actually maybe run a healer so they can heal back up! omg Blasphemy!!! Everytime i see a razzle dazzle Healer (rarely) in AA i instantly pick a Healer on my side as support.

 

And people that counter The Rein PROPERLY, use a high res unit so there is no problem countering her.

Or you just run a playerphase unit and get the killshot that way.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Hilda

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I dont see the problem. She can be dispatched with high res units. But i guess she counters too many Dragons and Armorers that cant deal with it <3 and requires Teams to actually maybe run a healer so they can heal back up! omg Blasphemy!!! Everytime i see a razzle dazzle Healer (rarely) in AA i instantly pick a Healer on my side as support.

 

And people that counter The Rein PROPERLY, use a high res unit so there is no problem countering her.

 actually im curious what is this countering THE REIN properly

because i havent been keeping up with the game these past few months >_>

[bottlegnomes]

@JSND Alter Dragon Boner High res green unit with optional TA3 generally. Same as it ever was mostly. At least to my knowledge. If the unit is running a raven tome to cover Lyn too, makes it even easier since Ronnie won't be doing much  damage.

Anyway, Wrazzle-dazzle is one of those things that seems to work better in player hands. They're a bit annoying in AA, but nothing nearly as bad as Rein or an armor emblem team. The biggest issue for me with them is not paying attention and realizing they have the pain build.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

just pick Veronica EZ

In my opinion, while BH!Lyn is a no brainer pick if you want to clear the hardest PVE content easily, AOTB!Veronica is not quite at that level. She does not have access to the Dance/Sing-Reposition tactic due to being a healer, so she will be more a bit difficult to use for Player Phase players. She is also competing with AOTB!Hector who comes with Distant Counter, and if the player also got spare Distant Counter fodder, AOTB!Ephraim with Distant Counter will round out the free Fjrom and VL!Ike quite well.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

8 minutes ago, XRay said:

In my opinion, while BH!Lyn is a no brainer pick if you want to clear the hardest PVE content easily, AOTB!Veronica is not quite at that level. She does not have access to the Dance/Sing-Reposition tactic due to being a healer, so she will be more a bit difficult to use for Player Phase players. She is also competing with AOTB!Hector who comes with Distant Counter, and if the player also got spare Distant Counter fodder, AOTB!Ephraim with Distant Counter will round out the free Fjrom and VL!Ike quite well.

isnt AOTH Veronica able to do simmilar combo with Gravity? Not sure though

[XRay]

1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

isnt AOTH Veronica able to do simmilar combo with Gravity? Not sure though

The Dancer/Singer will then be between AOTB!Veronica and the enemy when you end the turn, unlike BH!Lyn who can Reposition the Dancer/Singer behind herself. Having a Dancer/Singer in front of your nuke gets in nuke's way, and Gravity's debuff range is also much smaller than other staves, so there is a chance that the enemy can still reach and kill your Dancer/Singer. Due to the lack of Distant Counter in PvE, Firesweep also much less useful compared to Brave Bow.

[Water Mage]

Really, the only thing Veronica has over Maribelle is her staff, otherwise they’re very similar units. And even then Veronica’s staff makes her unsuited for Horse Emblem team and screws over Blade tomes users.

She’s a great unit, but she actually limits team composition a lot.

[Lewyn]

Speaking of teams what do you think?   Horses seems obvious but it seems redundant to have hones, fortifies since they won't stack with her staff, same with tactic skills.  With the original Peshkatz man Sothe, I run him with Marth, Brave Lucina, and PA Azura in a drive buff team.  Right now I'm casuallly thinking PA Shigure, Raven, M Morgan to run with her.  

[Humanoid]

I don't think the concern over Hones and Fortifies makes much of a difference in practice, especially if you're only carrying one of each in your horse team. Given time to set up in a square formation, you might have Veronica and Gunnthra both fully +6 buffed, sure, but then Veronica can in turn buff the two buffers. Besides, if you're relying on Veronica to buff herself, you miss out on a lot of first-turn killing potential. I'm assuming in this scenario Veronica keeps Close Guard and Gunnthra is running ploys.

[XRay]

38 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Really, the only thing Veronica has over Maribelle is her staff, otherwise they’re very similar units. And even then Veronica’s staff makes her unsuited for Horse Emblem team and screws over Blade tomes users.

She’s a great unit, but she actually limits team composition a lot.

Her staff is not unsuitable for pony teams. She can debuff the enemies' stats, which makes it easier for her Blade pony allies to double more often and hit harder. AOTB!Veronica also shuts down counterattacks, which is necessary in higher score ranges.

She can easily fit into any Player Phase team.

20 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Speaking of teams what do you think?   Horses seems obvious but it seems redundant to have hones, fortifies since they won't stack with her staff, same with tactic skills.  

Fortify is unnecessary, but Hone is still required for reliability. The extra 2/2/0/0 from Hone over Hliðskálf is needed to take on fast units. She pairs well with Gunnthrá with her mass debuffs.

14 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Given time to set up in a square formation, you might have Veronica and Gunnthra both fully +6 buffed

AOTB!Veronica and Gunnthá do not need Fortify. 0/0/6/6 does nothing for them as Player Phase units, and AOTB!Veronica cannot even run Blade tomes.

 

[Water Mage]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

Her staff is not unsuitable for pony teams. She can debuff the enemies' stats, which makes it easier for her Blade pony allies to double more often and hit harder. AOTB!Veronica also shuts down counterattacks, which is necessary in higher score ranges.

She can easily fit into any Player Phase team.

Blade tome users don’t really care about lowering enemy stats. They rather have the boost from Hone/Fortify and deal incredible damage. Veronica’s staff screws over this.

[Humanoid]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

AOTB!Veronica and Gunnthá do not need Fortify. 0/0/6/6 does nothing for them as Player Phase units, and AOTB!Veronica cannot even run Blade tomes.

I like the mixed-phase flexibility. Arguable for Veronica I guess, and I'll probably have a Fortify in my horse teams regardless. My only true glass-cannon team is my flier team.

[XRay]

Just now, Water Mage said:

Blade tome users don’t really care about lowering enemy stats. They rather have the boost from Hone/Fortify and deal incredible damage. Veronica’s staff screws over this.

Blade mages do care about having a Spd advantage, which is needed for doubling to kill things, and having Res debuffs allows up to an extra 4 or 8 damage. Melee units have gotten a lot of Spd and bulk lately due to Weapon Refinement, so having those debuffs help a lot.

[Ice Dragon]

25 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Blade tome users don’t really care about lowering enemy stats. They rather have the boost from Hone/Fortify and deal incredible damage. Veronica’s staff screws over this.

There is nothing preventing Veronica from running Hone Cavalry, Fortify Cavalry, or a Tactic skill in her C slot.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

The people who dismiss healers are those who can't afford to build them and haven't watched Youtube videos of a certain whale named Lu Bu Feng Xian clearing content with +10 merged healers like "Dr. Sakura", "Demon Maria", "Dark Overlord Elise" etc. 

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

The people who dismiss healers are those who can't afford to build them and haven't watched Youtube videos of a certain whale named Lu Bu Feng Xian clearing content with +10 merged healers like "Dr. Sakura", "Demon Maria", "Dark Overlord Elise" etc. 

Just wait until tomorrow when they face AOTB!Veronicas in Arena.

[Midnox]

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Just wait until tomorrow when they face AOTB!Veronicas in Arena.

I did three times. The first one crippled me bad, the second raped me, and the third killed two on my team

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

The people who dismiss healers are those who can't afford to build them and haven't watched Youtube videos of a certain whale named Lu Bu Feng Xian clearing content with +10 merged healers like "Dr. Sakura", "Demon Maria", "Dark Overlord Elise" etc. 

clearing PVE content is not the same as running Arena, though Healers also work in Arena, they just rank very very low score wise and thus it makes no sense running 4 of them. Clearing PVE content is just a matter of right positioning and picking counter skills. thats it. PVE content was even cleared with healers only before wrathfull and dazzling staff were even introduced long before Lu Bu started doing it.

[XRay]

8 minutes ago, Hilda said:

clearing PVE content is not the same as running Arena, though Healers also work in Arena, they just rank very very low score wise and thus it makes no sense running 4 of them. Clearing PVE content is just a matter of right positioning and picking counter skills. thats it. PVE content was even cleared with healers only before wrathfull and dazzling staff were even introduced long before Lu Bu started doing it.

Was not there a Japanese whale who cleared stuff with 4 highly merged Sakuras? Not sure if he still plays since I have not seen his videos in a while.