How could Laguz (and other strike units) work?

[RexBolt]

I think it's very unreasonable to look at the Laguz, who have 21 representatives without counting the Dragons, and let their fate be put in second place to the six 3DS shifters, who unlike the laguz never got the story detail they needed to shine and mostly only have a weight in the game for 1.5 chapters.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Second, I feel a lot of people are ignoring the fact that the Taguel/Kitsune/Wolfskin exist. They’re not laguz, why should they follow a system that wasn’t in their games?

Why should all dragons have adaptive damage when no dragons in the series had adaptive damage? In fact, why should dragons default to magic damage when the vast majority of dragons in the series either ignore defensive stats entirely or deal physical damage?

Why should games without an anima magic split have their anima magic users split up to match the games with split anima magic?

Why should Loptous be weak to thunder magic when it's strong against all anima magic in Jugdral? Same with Naga being weak to fire?

Why can't Tailtiu learn her signature Wrath?

Why can't any of my units land a critical hit or evade an attack?

 

Heroes makes its own rules and simply forces characters and weapons from other games to follow them. There is no reason why the 3DS shapeshifters must be treated differently.

 

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Kinda like how we refer to breath users as “dragons” instead of “manaketes”.

Not sure who the "we" is. The game refers to them as "dragonstone" units in English.

I personally don't use "manakete" because it sounds dumb and use "dragon" to avoid using "mamkute".

Edited September 9, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Silverly]

29 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

I think it's very unreasonable to look at the Laguz, who have 21 representatives without counting the Dragons, and let their fate be put in second place to the six 3DS shifters, who unlike the laguz never got the story detail they needed to shine and mostly only have a weight in the game for 1.5 chapters.

That wasn’t what I was saying at all. The Laguz wouldn’t be an afterthought, it’s just they shouldn’t have a whole system based around them and then force in the 3DS shifters. 

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Why should all dragons have adaptive damage when no dragons in the series had adaptive damage? In fact, why should dragons default to magic damage when the vast majority of dragons in the series either ignore defensive stats entirely or deal physical damage?

Why should games without an anima magic split have their anima magic users split up to match the games with split anima magic?

Why should Loptous be weak to thunder magic when it's strong against all anima magic in Jugdral? Same with Naga being weak to fire?

Why can't Tailtiu learn her signature Wrath?

Why can't any of my units land a critical hit or evade an attack?

 

Heroes makes its own rules and simply forces characters and weapons from other games to follow them. There is no reason why the 3DS shapeshifters must be treated differently.

 

Not sure who the "we" is. The game refers to them as "dragonstone" units in English.

I personally don't use "manakete" because it sounds dumb and use "dragon" to avoid using "mamkute".

You know I get the other ones, but this one I legitimately do question. I guess its because they didn't give her a default special, but they really good have. Wrath's a great skill, but I don't think it's so great that it should be permanently locked to just Nephenee.

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

You know I get the other ones, but this one I legitimately do question. I guess its because they didn't give her a default special, but they really good have. Wrath's a great skill, but I don't think it's so great that it should be permanently locked to just Nephenee.

It's not that Tailtiu doesn't start with Wrath but the fact that Tailtiu cannot learn Wrath at all in Heroes due to weapon type restrictions that prevent her (and all of House Freege) from ever having her signature skill.

The reasoning is obvious (ranged units have the inherent advantage of being able to initiate combat at range, meaning they need to take disadvantages elsewhere), but doesn't change the fact that Heroes makes its own rules and forces characters to abide by them, even if it prevents the characters from being represented according to their source material or forces limitations on them that they didn't previously have.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's not that Tailtiu doesn't start with Wrath but the fact that Tailtiu cannot learn Wrath at all in Heroes due to weapon type restrictions that prevent her (and all of House Freege) from ever having her signature skill.

The reasoning is obvious (ranged units have the inherent advantage of being able to initiate combat at range, meaning they need to take disadvantages elsewhere), but doesn't change the fact that Heroes makes its own rules and forces characters to abide by them, even if it prevents the characters from being represented according to their source material or forces limitations on them that they didn't previously have.

Oh wrath doesn't work at range? Didn't know as it's so rare. Only ever got one Nephenee and stuck wrath on Ike for better Aether output. Does kind of suck that ranged users cant learn it at all but I guess I can see the advantage. Still, in her case they could have given her a prf weapon with it or something.

[RexBolt]

Just remembered. Heron Laguz could totally be introduced as (colorless) dagger flying units.

Give them the spectre/reaper/daemon Cards as weapons. Give Sing + a Gauldr skill que heals a refreshed unit.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, RexBolt said:

Just remembered. Heron Laguz could totally be introduced as (colorless) dagger flying units.

Give them the spectre/reaper/daemon Cards as weapons. Give Sing + a Gauldr skill que heals a refreshed unit.

Given how Cards worked in Radiant Dawn, it'd be kind of cool if they were melee range dagger units with an innate firesweep effect on their weapons.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Given how Cards worked in Radiant Dawn, it'd be kind of cool if they were melee range dagger units with an innate firesweep effect on their weapons.

Random note that skills like Close Def and Distant Def trigger based on the opponent's weapon type, not the range of combat. I don't see them ever implementing weapons that initiate combat at a different range than the weapon type's default.

[Jotari]

32 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Random note that skills like Close Def and Distant Def trigger based on the opponent's weapon type, not the range of combat. I don't see them ever implementing weapons that initiate combat at a different range than the weapon type's default.

Well I kind of meant they'd be a new weapon type entirely but functionally the same as daggers. Not sure if there would be enough justification for that given there's only three herons (four counting Lehran), but it could be cool.

[RexBolt]

Yeah i would expect 2 range too.

My idea was more so that tge Herons trasformed only when Singing.

[Vaximillian]

@Ice Dragon  @Jotari

8% Tiki has been just announced and she’s blue and using her Mystery sprite recoloured yellow:

(she’s also armoured but fuck that bullshit)

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

8% Tiki has been just announced and she’s blue and using her Mystery sprite recoloured yellow:

Beat you to it in the other thread.

Well, that (1) is the laziest shit ever and (2) still supports my theory that this is her Divine Dragon form and her red version is her Fire Dragon form... except I now need to modify my argument just a bit.

Though fuck that laziness.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

@Ice Dragon  @Jotari

8% Tiki has been just announced and she’s blue and using her Mystery sprite recoloured yellow:

(she’s also armoured but fuck that bullshit)

36 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Beat you to it in the other thread.

Well, that (1) is the laziest shit ever and (2) still supports my theory that this is her Divine Dragon form and her red version is her Fire Dragon form... except I now need to modify my argument just a bit.

Though fuck that laziness.

Well even when we were arguing I said that even should they release a Book 2 alt it wouldn't prove her Book 1 design is a Fire Dragon. Just two different Divine Dragons in my eyes. It does completely destroy the idea that Green = Divine Dragons (or High Dragons) though. Also, while I can't see any logical reason to make her an armour, I am happy she is one, as I want an armoured variation of every breath unit and I really can't think of a better alternative other than Naga herself. High BST Tiki should also be sweet (and assuming she has Breath of Fog or some kind of variation of it, a proper Blue Dragon killer that isn't a seasonal knife unit).

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

35 minutes ago, Jotari said:

other than Naga herself.

Nagi, obviously. Or you could go Future Past Tiki. Duma too seems perfect for armoring, since he wears armor in humanoid form. Medeus wouldn't be possibly reasonable too. And Enteh or Katri, but that is just the part of me yearning to eventually play TRS speaking while ogling at those +40 Def & Ref plus effective bonus and crit nulling Dragon Scales. 

 

The one nice thing to consider is that when beasts finally get added, they hopefully shouldn't be at risk of being baaaad. Barring a disaster of Canasian proportions, coming so late into the game should make them at least decent.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Nagi, obviously. Or you could go Future Past Tiki. Duma too seems perfect for armoring, since he wears armor in humanoid form. Medeus wouldn't be possibly reasonable too. And Enteh or Katri, but that is just the part of me yearning to eventually play TRS speaking while ogling at those +40 Def & Ref plus effective bonus and crit nulling Dragon Scales. 

 

The one nice thing to consider is that when beasts finally get added, they hopefully shouldn't be at risk of being baaaad. Barring a disaster of Canasian proportions, coming so late into the game should make them at least decent.

Medeus and Duma I could definitely see bring Red or Green Armoured Breaths, but not really Blue units. Not sure why. Blue just doesn't seem to fit them (maybe, maybe, I could see Dark Dragon Medeus as a blue unit). Nagi I certainly wouldnt have any problems envisioning as a blue unit, I even made her one on the create a hero thread, but she's not ready bulky enough for me to think armour. The  again I don't imagine Tiki as an armour either yet here we are (although I do think of young Tiki as powerful, so it works in that regard). Blue would fit Anankos, but I expect he'll probably be flying if he gets in due to flying focus n his dragon form and levitating in his human form.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jotari