The pot twist that would completely salvage the story of Heroes (in my eyes)

[Jotari]

I don't care much for the plot of Heroes, but there is one plot twist I know own they'll never pull that would make me it's number on fan. And that's if when all is said and done and Loki finally steps forward to take her position as the big bad, they reveal that she is Loptous, the big bad of Jugdral.

This isn't a random idea, Loptyr and Loki are both the same character in Norse mythology. Loptous is in a unique position among all Fire Emblem villains to pull something like this off for more reasons that just sharing a name with Loki. I think it's safe to say he'll never actually be a unit in Heroes due to never actually appearing in the flesh. He's also one of the most dangerous enemies in the series being a direct rival to Naga. And lastly it's completely possible with in the lore (not that the canon would have been a concern to begin with) given that we know absolutely nothing about what happened to Loptous after he blood bonded with Galle. Of all the big bass if Fire Emblem that are out there, he's the only o e that the player has never actually beaten. A lot of villains give some dying monologue about how they'll never truly be defeated (even Lopt himself via Julius) but Loptous is the only one that could genuinely live up to it give his situation.

Loki being revealed to be a dragon doesn't seem that unlikely and I don't even care how they characterize her after such a point, but if they just drop a single reference to the fact that she is Naga's ultimate enemy and is also know as Loptous or Loptyr or whatever variation is currently canon, then I'd be ecstatic. That's what Heroes needs, to go full fanservice with Loki in a whole different way than one would generally associate with her.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Jotari

[redlight]

Loptous, huh. Would indeed be shocking, but I don't think it'll salvage it IMO

I honestly wish they'd ditch the "new chapter out only comes out when new heroes do" routine. It hurts investing into to the story when there's barely any of it. Players have a shit ton of stamina that's often not used and pots to boot (if you're not aiming for top 1000 in TT or something). I'd like them to take the FGO route and have these big ass scenarios released every 3 months or so allowing you to spend hours trying to clear the new scenario and having a sense of closure once you complete it instead of waiting a year for a flimsily written story that didn't need to be dragged out (there were parts in book 2 that felt like they were just trying to buy time). Also, what is the point of having a part of a chapter that doesn't have any dialogue, just a battle. It seems like they either can't afford decent writers all too often or are just taking the lazy gacha approach, which I'm more inclined to believe as the supposed revenue doesn't look like it's being funneled into the game to improve all that much (they're probably funding Three Houses, but even that according to Ice seems like suffering from set backs, I apologise if I misrepresented anything you said Ice). Just add-ons like more ways to earn score are given that encourage you to spend more money seem to be given more priority. There have been modes introduced, but around half of them are just reskins of already existing modes and all new modes range from bad to below mediocre at best. They stopped receiving patches as well

Edited January 31, 2019 by redlight

[Fabulously Olivier]

I've pretty much given up on FEH story being anything more than a Dragonball Z villain of the month deal.

 

If they wanted to salvage Book 2, they could have explained that Surtr's invasions were a harsh but necessary (in his eyes) means to fortify the world from Hel's next invasion in Askr, aiding Embla in the conquest so that Veronica could seal the gate permanently. This would have made him a Walhart figure, but one implemented better and more organically.

 

That took a few seconds to think up while driving, and that is a better Surtr than what we actually got. That says something about the low bar that passes for story in this game now.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Etheus

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, redlight said:

Loptous, huh. Would indeed be shocking, but I don't think it'll salvage it IMO

Haha, I don't mean salvage in a way that would make it actually of high quality, but salvage in a way that would make it great subjectively for me. I don't even care if it'd still be poorly written, throwing Loptous and the unloved child that is Jugdral a bone would satisfy me immensely. Most fans probably wouldn't care (or even know who Loptous is) but that's where the advantage of him being such a blank slate would key in.  The reference could be dropped without really altering much of anything that they (presumably) intend to do with Loki. All they need is the name (or a reference to having once blood bonded with a human) and the suggestion that she hates (or at one point did hate) humans.

6 minutes ago, Etheus said:

I've pretty much given up on FEH story being anything more than a Dragonball Z villain of the month deal.

Loptous is my Broly. Give me the Fanservice IS. Give me the fan service!

[Lemmy]

Dark and Darker hints that she's something similar, although I'm thinking it involves this worlds dragons, Askr and Embla.

Sadly a lot of time is going to be wasted cheaply teasing us the the main characters deaths, but outside of that, Lif and Thrasir, have the potential for nice lore. Lif in that he went to Hel in the first place, Surtr says it's a place for the unworthy, and Thrasir might add some insight into whatever it is that compels Veronica and Bruno.

[Interdimensional Observer]

The plot of FEH is already pretty chill, I don't think we need Anna to establish a brownie industry. Unless you mean you conceived this idea whilst surrounded by a cloud of green miasma.

[Midnox]

Well, it would certainly be interesting if something that affects the plot of Heroes originates directly from a main FE game. I remember that before book II Loki was looking for the Naglfar spell book, but nothing also has come of it as of now. Loki and Loptous sharing the same mythological origin, having a connection between them would be a nice twist. Not expecting her being actually Loptous, but directly connected with him

[Jotari]

36 minutes ago, Midnox said:

Well, it would certainly be interesting if something that affects the plot of Heroes originates directly from a main FE game. I remember that before book II Loki was looking for the Naglfar spell book, but nothing also has come of it as of now. Loki and Loptous sharing the same mythological origin, having a connection between them would be a nice twist. Not expecting her being actually Loptous, but directly connected with him

Nagalfar is the Loptous Tome confirmed!

Seriously though that's what I'd prefer from Heroes. If you're not going to give me something decent, then just give me series references up the wazoo. I don't even like Xander, but I love the fact that they've given him some kind of role in the story with Veronica. Make Surtr Whalhart instead, make Hel Anankos, make Bruno Lyon or something. Have Ashnard, Gharnef and Nergal in a three way conflict trying to gain possession of Idoun. Have Zephiel working for Duma or Ashera in a cosmic war with Naga. Give me an actual super massive Fire Emblem crossover instead of a generic plot that uses Fire Emblem characters for the purpose of gameplay. None of it even needs to be good, I'd celebrate it just for being cool. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Jotari

[Vince777]

I like the idea but it wouldn't salvage the story for as long as it is handled episodically and very lazily.

They could already do amazing things with this Hel trek if they just really wanted to. The trailer was superb. 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Vince777

[Lemmy]

28 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I like the idea but it wouldn't salvage the story for as long as it is handled episodically and very lazily.

They could already do amazing things with this Hel trek if they just really wanted to. The trailer was superb. 

 

I’d only agree with that if they actually kill off at least one royal, otherwise it’s just a vain ploy to snicker at.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Seriously though that's what I'd prefer from Heroes. If you're not going to give me something decent, then just give me series references up the wazoo. I don't even like Xander, but I love the fact that they've given him some kind of role in the story with Veronica. Make Surtr Whalhart instead, make Hel Anankos, make Bruno Lyon or something. Have Ashnard, Gharnef and Nergal in a three way conflict trying to gain possession of Idoun. Have Zephiel working for Duma or Ashera in a cosmic war with Naga. Give me an actual super massive Fire Emblem crossover instead of a generic plot that uses Fire Emblem characters for the purpose of gameplay. None of it even needs to be good, I'd celebrate it just for being cool. 

Well they squandered the same opportunity with FEW as well, probably.

ZephielxAshera I'd totally agree with, since both are misanthropic, but that'd be something I'd see happening later one. Nergal has to ally with Ashnard first though, rivals with benefits just waiting for the other to backstab and run off, but nonetheless benefitting in the short term.

Counterfactual FE storylines would be another choice. In pursuit of Big Bad OC, the OC heroes leap into worlds where Big Bad creates some interference.

For instance, flashback to Shadow Dragon Prologue- Marth's flight. Seeking to cast this world in darkness yada yada, Big Bad does everything they can to stop Marth from successfully fleeing to Talys. How does one make a full storyline out of this? Well does it have to be 13 chapters? And do the FE characters in here have to be solely relevant to this moment in Archanea? And Big Bad isn't going to just stop after one failed attack, they'll keep coming and maybe go for some side objectives as well, like taking Elice whom you then must rescue. The year of Altea's fall is also the year of Nyna's capture, so Nyna is someone else who must be saved. In the end, the OC heroes don't leave things as if history had taken its natural course. Nyna and Elice are safe with Marth in this world; yet the Falchion was still taken, Medeus is still alive, and Camus is still being a Camus, but the important thing is the Big Bad stops trying to interfere with it, and it can be assured Marth and co. will after the OC heroes leave will defeat Medeus and Gharnef.

And, they could always revisit the same continent in a different place both physically and chronologically in a given storyline to tell a new FEH story. So to use Radiant Dawn, Big Bad at one point visits at Part 3 Endgame, which has clear possibilities of what they could be doing there. Another visit to Tellius could come a little earlier, when Ike and co. are along the Ribahn River circa 3-2, the Big Bad strikes a deal with the Senate. What follows is Fire! Fire! Fire! everywhere, and Gallia is ablaze! The forests are but a tinderbox to Emperor Arvis's Valflame. Ike and the Laguz Alliance cannot return to save Gallia whiles Zelgius is only a few miles away, although Skrimir hastily runs back home and some others follow to keep him in check. By the time Skrimir returns, it is too late, Caineghis and Giffca are locked in battle with Arvis brainwashed and empowered by Big Bad, but Giffca dies and Caineghis too is fatally wounded, even when the OC heroes force Arvis to flee. With Gallia in ashes and its king dead, the war against Begnion threatens to collapse, and Zelgius manages to push against Ike and co. making it likely that the now-shattered Gallia will be faced with Begnion descending on it. The OCs must keep hope alive for the Laguz Alliance.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[SSbardock84]

I like the idea, but I don't know if they'd pull that. Loki is just . . . an awkward character in the game. I mean, it could happen. But my doubts are placed around things she's said and the fact that you can obtain the character though. I do find it interesting that the new antagonist is Hel, who in Norse mythology is Loki's daughter. I mean, this could be done on purpose or not. It'd be cool to see it all connect like that.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well they squandered the same opportunity with FEW as well, probably.

Yes, I have bemoaned that fact too. Why have some random OC dragon without the slightest bit of personality when there's a bunch dragons in the series that could fill the role? It seems like Tokyo Mirage Session, the least Fire Emblemish of all Fire Emblem properties is the only one that figured out fans like this sort of fanservice. While we're at it why did they create a bunch of new monsters for Warriors when Fire Emblem already has a lovely rogues gallery of monsters to select from?

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

ZephielxAshera I'd totally agree with, since both are misanthropic, but that'd be something I'd see happening later one. Nergal has to ally with Ashnard first though, rivals with benefits just waiting for the other to backstab and run off, but nonetheless benefitting in the short term.

Counterfactual FE storylines would be another choice. In pursuit of Big Bad OC, the OC heroes leap into worlds where Big Bad creates some interference.

For instance, flashback to Shadow Dragon Prologue- Marth's flight. Seeking to cast this world in darkness yada yada, Big Bad does everything they can to stop Marth from successfully fleeing to Talys. How does one make a full storyline out of this? Well does it have to be 13 chapters? And do the FE characters in here have to be solely relevant to this moment in Archanea? And Big Bad isn't going to just stop after one failed attack, they'll keep coming and maybe go for some side objectives as well, like taking Elice whom you then must rescue. The year of Altea's fall is also the year of Nyna's capture, so Nyna is someone else who must be saved. In the end, the OC heroes don't leave things as if history had taken its natural course. Nyna and Elice are safe with Marth in this world; yet the Falchion was still taken, Medeus is still alive, and Camus is still being a Camus, but the important thing is the Big Bad stops trying to interfere with it, and it can be assured Marth and co. will after the OC heroes leave will defeat Medeus and Gharnef.

And, they could always revisit the same continent in a different place both physically and chronologically in a given storyline to tell a new FEH story. So to use Radiant Dawn, Big Bad at one point visits at Part 3 Endgame, which has clear possibilities of what they could be doing there. Another visit to Tellius could come a little earlier, when Ike and co. are along the Ribahn River circa 3-2, the Big Bad strikes a deal with the Senate. What follows is Fire! Fire! Fire! everywhere, and Gallia is ablaze! The forests are but a tinderbox to Emperor Arvis's Valflame. Ike and the Laguz Alliance cannot return to save Gallia whiles Zelgius is only a few miles away, although Skrimir hastily runs back home and some others follow to keep him in check. By the time Skrimir returns, it is too late, Caineghis and Giffca are locked in battle with Arvis brainwashed and empowered by Big Bad, but Giffca dies and Caineghis too is fatally wounded, even when the OC heroes force Arvis to flee. With Gallia in ashes and its king dead, the war against Begnion threatens to collapse, and Zelgius manages to push against Ike and co. making it likely that the now-shattered Gallia will be faced with Begnion descending on it. The OCs must keep hope alive for the Laguz Alliance.

So basically Fire Emblem x Kingdom Hearts. Sounds like it would work (although in your scenario I would rather Alvis was manipulated instead of Brainwashed). That almost seems to be what they  were going for in the early days of part 1, but then it kind of just devolved to "Contracted to fight, k thanxs bye."