Mythic Hero candidates

[a bear]

1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

honestly, given dheginsea's allegiance to ashera and his moral compass being very aligned with order (he was the only laguz king to say no to the alliance and war with begnion), dark makes the least sense if you want to talk about characterisation, I think light, or anima make the most sense.

Reminder that our only light hero is affiliated with the underworld. 

[thecrimsonflash]

37 minutes ago, a bear said:

Reminder that our only light hero is affiliated with the underworld. 

eir is very empathetic and seems to be a good person, I don't think it would be wrong to expect her to have a complete heel turn at some point, she is already looking to be against hel's plans just due to her general reluctance, it seems like eir is doing this more because she would be alone otherwise.

[Nym]

I expect a lot of dragon units to be Mythic Heroes so they were always important characters in the story.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, thecrimsonflash said:

eir is very empathetic and seems to be a good person, I don't think it would be wrong to expect her to have a complete heel turn at some point, she is already looking to be against hel's plans just due to her general reluctance, it seems like eir is doing this more because she would be alone otherwise.

Is she even truly Hel's daughter? First off, how does Hel, basically death itself, give birth to life? 

Second, Eir doesn't have the ectoplasm that the others have.

1 minute ago, Nym said:

I expect a lot of dragon units to be Mythic Heroes so they were always important characters in the story.

Meaning the Fire Dragon from FE7 will come!

[Nym]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Meaning the Fire Dragon from FE7 will come!

Lol 'important' right.

Maybe Nils but who knows.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

In Japanese, the name for the Astra element is "Sky" or "Heaven", the same as Heaven affinity in the Tellius games.

So they instead forced a reference to a fancy technique? Well it doesn't make total nonsense, since stars are in "the heavens". But I can't say I like this. They should have gone with Heaven if they had already translated it as that more accurate term.

 

47 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Ashunera split because the others convinced her to.

The split was an emotional outburst caused by internal separation due to frustration with dealing with the rise of Laguz-Beorc tensions. The moment of the Great Flood was the moment when the internal divide into Ashera and Yune, with Ashera exerting physical control more often, became a real physical divide. -Insofar as I interpret the Recollections. What was convinced it seems, is that after the split, Yune should be destroyed. Ashera clings to that idea after her servants reject it, which then leads to the situation enduring for 800 years, a compromise.

 

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, she didn't create the world. She existed in a world that's already there, but only covered in water. I guess she created the land, so there's that. 

If you refer to the Abrahamic God, then yes, this makes Ashunera less worthy of the title of god. However, for other religions, you do find a primordial body of watery chaos from which a deity originated or came into. It was the case with Shinto- Izanagi and Izanami create land, it was the case in Iroquois religion (a woman falls from the sky into a wateryw world where only a couple animals exist), and it was the case in Egyptian paganism too. Nonetheless, all of these who first emerged were acknowledged as gods.

 

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Is she even truly Hel's daughter? First off, how does Hel, basically death itself, give birth to life? 

How does death even live? To truly be death, one should be all life is not, and living is life.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The split was an emotional outburst caused by internal separation due to frustration with dealing with the rise of Laguz-Beorc tensions. The moment of the Great Flood was the moment when the internal divide into Ashera and Yune, with Ashera exerting physical control more often, became a real physical divide. -Insofar as I interpret the Recollections. What was convinced it seems, is that after the split, Yune should be destroyed. Ashera clings to that idea after her servants reject it, which then leads to the situation enduring for 800 years, a compromise.

3

That makes literally no sense. The game's events clearly state that Ashunera only split herself into Yune and Ashera because Lehran and the others told her to do so, or rather, to cast off her emotions. But no matter how you look at it, if Ashunera had any ability to revive the dead, the inability to realize or even perform it just makes her seem stupid. Even worse is that no one wondered if Ashunera could fix it.

Everything suggests that Ashunera has no ability to truly revive the dead. Sephiran was saved using Sacrifice and timing, and Ashera only brought back bodies with no souls.

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If you refer to the Abrahamic God, then yes, this makes Ashunera less worthy of the title of god. However, for other religions, you do find a primordial body of watery chaos from which a deity originated or came into. It was the case with Shinto- Izanagi and Izanami create land, it was the case in Iroquois religion (a woman falls from the sky into a wateryw world where only a couple animals exist), and it was the case in Egyptian paganism too. Nonetheless, all of these who first emerged were acknowledged as gods.

2

Ultimately, there are no true omnipotent gods in Fire Emblem, just absurdly powerful beings that are like gods.

However, Ashera claims that she could kill her other half Yune, but that would, in turn, destroy her as well. Grima is basically the same way, as no one can kill Grima but himself. And this only worked because of the breaking of space-time where two Grimas (Present and Future) existed at the same point. So that already makes Grima at Ashera and Yune's level just by that. And Grima was created artificially, therefore is not even someone of natural creation and not a mortal by that means. 

[Stroud]

So I guess Deirdre will have a possible chance to be among the mythic heroes? If not one from her Family tree? 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Stroud said:

So I guess Deirdre will have a possible chance to be among the mythic heroes? If not one from her Family tree? 

Kurth?

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That makes literally no sense.

An opening statement like this suggests you've an axe to grind on the goddess. And after our one prior clash on the matter, let's not make our clashing as frequent as your predecessor in the non-robotic alternate universe and Forte, k' Rockman? Differences beyond reconciliation create no meaningful debate, only bitter ague so I'll just drop this topic. Twice burned, now I've learned.

In other words, it isn't your fault, it's mine.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

An opening statement like this suggests you've an axe to grind on the goddess. And after our one prior clash on the matter, let's not make our clashing as frequent as your predecessor in the non-robotic alternate universe and Forte, k' Rockman? Differences beyond reconciliation create no meaningful debate, only bitter ague so I'll just drop this topic. Twice burned, now I've learned.

In other words, it isn't your fault, it's mine.

Not really. It's just that Ashera/Ashunera/Yune are just done so inconsistently. Its like the Tellius series tried to show off how great and power Ashera is as the goddess, and such, but they handled it in such a poor manner that one has to wonder exactly how she scales. A lot of her feats and accomplishments seem impressive because they try to make a big deal out of it, and some gameplay functions does help, but it being inconsistent repeatedly just hurts it overall.

Like, even Naga isn't even hyped up this much, but she has done incredible feats. 

This is very similar to how Anankos is. Hype up a lot of the things he apparently does, but then be inconsistent overall with a lot of things.

[Stroud]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Kurth?

Why not. But seeing how Insys chooses characters it would be a surprise if they choose on of them. Even any character from genealogy would surprise me. But if I think about mythic heroes I just think about Nagas or Loptyrs/Loptous blood.
Would be nice though if they add characters which are not playable otherwise in their corresponding games.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Stroud

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Stroud said:

Why not. But seeing how Insys chooses characters it would be a surprise if they choose on of them. Even any character from genealogy would surprise me. But if I think about mythic heroes I just think about Nagas or Loptyrs/Loptous blood.
Would be nice though if they add characters which are not playable otherwise in their corresponding games.

1

We're more likely to get Naga and Loptous themselves than ones who have their blood for Mythic heroes.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

We're more likely to get Naga and Loptous themselves than ones who have their blood for Mythic heroes.

Naga could work for a lot of games though. Loptyr alone without going into the Crusaders would work for a specifically Jugdrali Mythic. I don't think we've ever had artwork for Forseti.

The Crusaders on the other hand have that beautiful group artwork.

Spoiler

Fjalar looks from this alone like she could be appealing. Female, fierce, fiery, probably an ardent lover of justice. Show us the ancestor whose lineage Arvis stains.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Naga could work for a lot of games though. Loptyr alone without going into the Crusaders would work for a specifically Jugdrali Mythic. I don't think we've ever had artwork for Forseti.

The Crusaders on the other hand have that beautiful group artwork.

  Hide contents

Fjalar looks from this alone like she could be appealing. Female, fierce, fiery, probably an ardent lover of justice. Show us the ancestor whose lineage Arvis stains.

That would be neat. But that would require making them be an actual character, rather than just be some legend. 

If they could give us that, then we could also get characters like Anri and such. Or the Elibe Legends. Or the Tellius Legends. I would love to see Altina dual wielding Ragnell and Alondite.

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

eir is very empathetic and seems to be a good person, I don't think it would be wrong to expect her to have a complete heel turn at some point, she is already looking to be against hel's plans just due to her general reluctance, it seems like eir is doing this more because she would be alone otherwise.

In Norse mythology, Eir is associated with healing, hence her Light element and having two skills that grant healing effects, one of which is exclusive to her.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

That would be neat. But that would require making them be an actual character, rather than just be some legend. 

If they could give us that, then we could also get characters like Anri and such. Or the Elibe Legends. Or the Tellius Legends. I would love to see Altina dual wielding Ragnell and Alondite.

And I'd be perfectly fine with this myself. They can always claim that since FEH is a spinoff, any depictions of a legend are not canon if they need to do so later. Sure it'd seem inconsistent, but having totally different takes on one person, as long as the canon one isn't an awful mess, sounds creative and interesting to me.

While Anri is nice, I think I'd be most interested in Iote of the Archanean character of lore. Sure he'd probably be another flying tomato with arrow protection if his descendants are anything to go by, and maybe he'd have that can opener whose name strangely first appeared in PoR. But the little that is know of him- that he was a slave to the Manaketes, is for some reason appealing to me. Also, according to SF, there were only Three Heroes of the War of Liberation: Anri, Cartas, and Ordwin (although I thought it was said elsewhere it is ambiguous who are the three), which would leave Iote outside of them. If he wasn't a THotWoL, then I like to imagine Iote was without the support of the THotWoL and fought basically on his own, in Macedon, it alone neighbored Dolhr on land. A valiant ex-slave, doing battle inches from the heart of Medeus's empire, without any support from elsewhere for at least a few years- sounds incredible to me. If I wasn't terrible at writing characters, I'd fanfict a Iote of mine own.

As for Tellius, Soane needs some development, we know practically nothing of him. Even if he is less cool than Altina.

[Sunwoo]

The real reason why Ashera cannot revive while the godlike dragons can is because revival is simply not a part of Tellius. Archanea (and Valentia, by extension) have Alm and Valkyrie, which in-universe can revive people. Valentia has revival springs and that one bullshit cutscene that was not in the original. Awakening and Fates have outrealms that are canon to those worlds and therefore their deities' powers need to scale to take that into account.

In other words, the reason why Ashera cannot do certain things that dragon-gods can is because Tellius was not written with those things in mind as either a story mechanic or a plot mechanic. It's a world that runs on its own rules and doesn't intersect with the rules of any of the other continents, and in this world reviving the dead in mint condition just isn't a thing that happens in Tellius.

As for possible mythic heroes, it would be nice to see at least one representative from each continent this time. The Twelve Crusaders though ... surely it'd be really hard to squeeze them all in if they qualify ...

Edited January 31, 2019 by Sunwoo

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The real reason why Ashera cannot revive while the godlike dragons can is because revival is simply not a part of Tellius. Archanea (and Valentia, by extension) have Alm and Valkyrie, which in-universe can revive people. Valentia has revival springs and that one bullshit cutscene that was not in the original. Awakening and Fates have outrealms that are canon to those worlds and therefore their deities' powers need to scale to take that into account.

In other words, the reason why Ashera cannot do certain things that dragon-gods can is because Tellius was not written with those things in mind as either a story mechanic or a plot mechanic. It's a world that runs on its own rules and doesn't intersect with the rules of any of the other continents, and in this world reviving the dead in mint condition just isn't a thing that happens in Tellius.

If reviving people was the only issue, perhaps that could be let off. But that isn't the only inconsistency with Ashera. But even if reviving was impossible and such for the laws of that world, why is it that Ashunera never bothered unflooding the other continents? And frankly, how does she even know that all the other continents are flooded or all the life in the other continents are actually dead? 

The Hatari village was believed to be the only place left after the flood, and Ashunera didn't know. There's a big desert that goes beyond Tellius that no one knows what's beyond. 

Ashunera isn't omniscient. She doesn't know everything. How much knowledge and understanding does she know or able to know? 

Everything about the Tellius goddesses that we see and experience seem like they exist for the sake of the plot.

[Sunwoo]

You do realize that Yune herself already admits that gods aren't perfect or omniscient and all that stuff? She outright tells Sanaki in that one chapter that gods are basically just like people, except more powerful and therefore capable of making bigger mistakes. She says that gods are closer to people, more so than some of them would like to admit.

I wouldn't call it an inconsistency. With this in mind, she most likely didn't know whether the other continents were all flooded or completely dead because she's not omniscient. And due to believing they were all dead, she probably didn't see a reason to un-flood the world.

Honestly, the entire point of part 4 is to tear down all that we believed that the gods of Tellius were, as well as its history, and to show that things are not as cut and dried as it seemed like it was. Ashera and Yune are powerful beings in their world, in the world of Tellius where there are no real ties to any of the other continents. Their power cannot be compared in a similar scale to the dragon gods because Tellius is trying to tell a different story than what Archanea or Valentia or Awakening or Fates are trying to tell. The power levels of "divine beings" are just different amongst these worlds because they take different things into account.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Sunwoo

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

You do realize that Yune herself already admits that gods aren't perfect or omniscient and all that stuff? She outright tells Sanaki in that one chapter that gods are basically just like people, except more powerful and therefore capable of making bigger mistakes. She says that gods are closer to people, more so than some of them would like to admit.

I wouldn't call it an inconsistency. With this in mind, she most likely didn't know whether the other continents were all flooded or completely dead because she's not omniscient. And due to believing they were all dead, she probably didn't see a reason to un-flood the world.

Honestly, the entire point of part 4 is to tear down all that we believed that the gods of Tellius were, as well as its history, and to show that things are not as cut and dried as it seemed like it was. Ashera and Yune are powerful beings in their world, in the world of Tellius where there are no real ties to any of the other continents. Their power cannot be compared in a similar scale to the dragon gods because Tellius is trying to tell a different story than what Archanea or Valentia or Awakening or Fates are trying to tell. The power levels of "divine beings" are just different amongst these worlds because they take different things into account.

Her not being omnipotent and omniscient isn't the problem. Its that all feats and displays of power are inconsistent. She floods the world? Why not unflood it? Even if there's no life, which she has no way of knowing, she should unflood it regardless so that they have more land. She zaps others into stone? Somehow fails to get the main cast and several others for some reason. And for some reason, she needs to recharge back to full power to do it again. Why? There's only a handful compared to the entire continent before. 

Sends others that have minor blessings to stall them? Why bother if that only wastes more energy? Better to just send her strongest forces that are invincible and decimate them while Yune is still not strong enough to grant blessings. She has the dragon laguz and Dheginsea on her side. Why is this even an issue? 

Power levels being different among games isn't the issue. Even in her own game, Ashera's feats are inconsistent and makes no sense. 

You can make sense of many other deities feats and abilities at the very least. But Ashera trying to show off this near omnipotence and uber powerful causes inconsistencies. 

[Faellin]

Would Gotoh and Athos be considered godlike figures for this? They are some of the strongest mortals in the FE universe based on what we've seen. So I feel they would be good choices.

[Sunwoo]

If all of this was such an issue, why didn't you just bring it up in the previous post? Were you hoping I wouldn't be able to answer it and only dug it up just now?

First of all, she missed everyone who was in the same building as Yune (dialogue with the merchants suggests that this is because of Yune's presence). The Branded were not affected as she didn't know they existed. Also, characters who are supposed to be exceptionally powerful in-story also avoided being turned to stone. This suggests that either Ashera was not up to full power because she'd just woken up, or she was simply arrogant and didn't think anyone would be able to withstand her judgement. Also, why is needing to recharge so weird? She released a lot of energy in one go, and again she just woke up. That doesn't speak to how powerful or not-powerful she is.

And again, the stuff in your second paragraph kind of boils down to arrogance as well. Ashera thinks she is perfect, and does not think very highly of humanity. She probably thought that minor goons would be able to deal with a small group of tiresome gnats. She just underestimated them. Simple as that.

Honestly, we can agree to disagree because your last statement just makes me think you're biased. Because no, I can't actually make sense of many of the other deities' feats and abilities more so than Ashera. All of them have some issues, others more obvious than others but still existent. If Ashera is inconsistent, she's not the only one who has that issue.

[Othin]

12 minutes ago, Faellin said:

Would Gotoh and Athos be considered godlike figures for this? They are some of the strongest mortals in the FE universe based on what we've seen. So I feel they would be good choices.

They do seem like good candidates. They also have the advantage of actually appearing on CYL, unlike the non-playable ancient heroes.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

If all of this was such an issue, why didn't you just bring it up in the previous post? Were you hoping I wouldn't be able to answer it and only dug it up just now?

First of all, she missed everyone who was in the same building as Yune (dialogue with the merchants suggests that this is because of Yune's presence). The Branded were not affected as she didn't know they existed. Also, characters who are supposed to be exceptionally powerful in-story also avoided being turned to stone. This suggests that either Ashera was not up to full power because she'd just woken up, or she was simply arrogant and didn't think anyone would be able to withstand her judgement. Also, why is needing to recharge so weird? She released a lot of energy in one go, and again she just woke up. That doesn't speak to how powerful or not-powerful she is.

And again, the stuff in your second paragraph kind of boils down to arrogance as well. Ashera thinks she is perfect, and does not think very highly of humanity. She probably thought that minor goons would be able to deal with a small group of tiresome gnats. She just underestimated them. Simple as that.

Honestly, we can agree to disagree because your last statement just makes me think you're biased. Because no, I can't actually make sense of many of the other deities' feats and abilities more so than Ashera. All of them have some issues, others more obvious than others but still existent. If Ashera is inconsistent, she's not the only one who has that issue.

First of all, the concept of strength is way too loose to even count. You expect me to believe that the Feral Laguz, Izuka, and others like Tormod are able to avoid being petrified? Tormod is a kid with magical abilities, but there are hundreds and thousands of other soldiers and mages in the war that oughta be way stronger than him, but they got petrified. Also, everything suggests that she fired that attack at full power and that she is recharging back to full power to do it again. But why? There is literally only a handful of people around. Not an entire continent's population. She doesn't need to recharge her full power. The only one that mentions being weakened from just waking up is Yune, who repeatedly shows that she's not at full strength, whereas Ashera shows to do many more feats of power repeatedly with no drawbacks. She fires Judgment, de-petrifies an army, blesses them, then starts to repeatedly revive them. All of these consume power. It makes no sense if she does this, but we're expected to believe she's recharging or some BS.

What does arrogance have anything to do with sending soldiers that are already there for you? Why does she need to drain her power by de-petrifying others and then blessing them? If she was truly arrogant, she wouldn't waste her strength to send goons to delay them. The ones that are already there that would require zero effort from her would better equate to arrogance because that means she doesn't have to do anything.