Who are characters you dislike and DON'T want added to Heroes?

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, Gregster101 said:

Dude, think to yourself about this. Who the fuck actually likes and wants Iago and Hans in Heroes?

I dunno about hans but I’d like to see Iago in the game cause he’s entertaining. I also really like his design.

[GrandeRampel]

I agree on Iago's design being great.

It's one of his redeeming qualities.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Gregster101 said:

Dude, think to yourself about this. Who the fuck actually likes and wants Iago and Hans in Heroes?

Me

 

[Diovani Bressan]

Iago is a annoying character. I hate him so much in Fates, especially in Conquest... But I want him in the game. I just hope IntSys does something interesting with him, like a exclusive tome with a unique effect. I didn't care about Aversa, but her Tome is great and made me use her more..

Edited March 19, 2019 by Diovani Bressan

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

I agree on Iago's design being great.

It's one of his redeeming qualities.

If there’s one thing awakening and fates do well, it’s character design. Kozaki is a very talented artist 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Iago is a annoying character. I hate him so much in Fates, especially in Conquest... But I want him in the game. I just hope IntSys does something interesting with him, like a exclusive tome with a unique effect.

I'd rather him be a Staffer. Since he is at his worst as an enemy when fingering through his Staff Savant Silence-Freeze-Enfeeble-Hexing nastiness. Nohrian Excalibur can go to Nyx or a Leo alt. Ginnungagap can go to the other.

I don't get why they changed his name though. Macbeth -> Iago is just a way of wasting two Shakespearean characters. Iago I would think is more appropriate for him though, from what I know of Macbeth and what little I know of Iago.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd rather him be a Staffer. Since he is at his worst as an enemy when fingering through his Staff Savant Silence-Freeze-Enfeeble-Hexing nastiness. Nohrian Excalibur can go to Nyx or a Leo alt. Ginnungagap can go to the other.

I don't get why they changed his name though. Macbeth -> Iago is just a way of wasting two Shakespearean characters. Iago I would think is more appropriate for him though, from what I know of Macbeth and what little I know of Iago.

Iago is more appropriate, but it is pretty wasted on him. Shakespeare's Iago is one of the best fictional villains ever created while Fire Emblem's Iago...isn't.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Iago is more appropriate, but it is pretty wasted on him. Shakespeare's Iago is one of the best fictional villains ever created while Fire Emblem's Iago...isn't.

I never watched/read Othello, I only saw Otello the opera when I tried to get into that, apparently the opera was originally going to be titled Iago because of how dramatic he was in it (albeit they apparently made him a bit more one-dimensionally evil- still a very brilliant evil though). Iago there certainly was wickedly good, his soliloquy of sorts explaining himself was perfect. I need to actually get a copy of the play. 

And I think you answered why we don't have Iago, Hans, Sumeragi, and Anankos yet, and why it took so long for Garon. I don't think anyone loves Fates for the villains, it's all about the hero characters. IS is likely aware of this. Might be why they made Kana of all things a GHB so long ago, they didn't feel they needed a villain; Adrift didn't have a GHB, did it? Would have been a good chance for Arete or Anankos there, but nope. 

[Gregster101]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Iago is more appropriate, but it is pretty wasted on him. Shakespeare's Iago is one of the best fictional villains ever created while Fire Emblem's Iago...isn't.

Is it bad that I've never read/seen Othello before? I should get on that though, because I really do enjoy Shakespeare

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never watched/read Othello, I only saw Otello the opera when I tried to get into that, apparently the opera was originally going to be titled Iago because of how dramatic he was in it (albeit they apparently made him a bit more one-dimensionally evil- still a very brilliant evil though). Iago there certainly was wickedly good, his soliloquy of sorts explaining himself was perfect. I need to actually get a copy of the play. 

And I think you answered why we don't have Iago, Hans, Sumeragi, and Anankos yet, and why it took so long for Garon. I don't think anyone loves Fates for the villains, it's all about the hero characters. IS is likely aware of this. Might be why they made Kana of all things a GHB so long ago, they didn't feel they needed a villain; Adrift didn't have a GHB, did it? Would have been a good chance for Arete or Anankos there, but nope. 

You're figuring this out now? Garon, Iago, Hans, Anankos are some of the worst villains in the entire Fire Emblem series. Like, there's a reason why so many of us in this topic have been listing the Fates villains such as Iago and Hans as characters we don't want to see added into the game.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Gregster101 said:

Is it bad that I've never read/seen Othello before? I should get on that though, because I really do enjoy Shakespeare

The reason why the name is more befitting of the Fates villain than Macbeth, is because of how Shakespeare Iago acts.

Iago is the trusted highest subordinate of the military officer Othello. Othello is praised, has prestige. Iago is envious, Iago wants boss's job. How to get it? Iago has plan- get Othello fired. How to get Othello fired? Make him think his beloved Desdemona is cheating on him- that would drive Othello so mad others would think him insane, and thus he'd lose his military career.

Shakespeare's Iago is a scheming manipulator, the Fates villain tries to be something like one of those I guess.

 

5 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

You're figuring this out now? Garon, Iago, Hans, Anankos are some of the worst villains in the entire Fire Emblem series. Like, there's a reason why so many of us in this topic have been listing the Fates villains such as Iago and Hans as characters we don't want to see added into the game.

I personally have not seen an iota of Fates's plot and am neutral on it, but I came to this conclusion some months ago.

[Tree]

I don't know anything about the Fire Emblem Iago. I think the parrot in Disney's Aladdin was named Iago as well. The name is often reused for villains because Shakespeare's Iago was just so devious.

[Sunwoo]

Oh, I definitely think we should get Iago in Heroes.

Just ... not for a good long while. There are characters with far more priority than him who are not in, and Fates already has a lot of representation compared to the other games.

[Icelerate]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't think anyone loves Fates for the villains, it's all about the hero characters. IS is likely aware of this. Might be why they made Kana of all things a GHB so long ago, they didn't feel they needed a villain

That's surprising considering the hero characters like Corrin, Azura, Xander, Camilla, Peri (if she counts) get a lot of flack. 

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Iago is more appropriate, but it is pretty wasted on him. Shakespeare's Iago is one of the best fictional villains ever created while Fire Emblem's Iago...isn't.

The feels when a play from a single man 400 years ago has better writing than a modern game worked on by a corporation. 

Is Fates Iago worse than Surtr? 

[Gregster101]

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Is Fates Iago worse than Surtr? 

Honestly, that's a good question. I'd say Iago is worse just because of how much the Fates villains hurt the story, whereas with Surtr, I didn't really have any expectations for him cuz it's a fucking mobile game

[Icelerate]

18 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think that's a very interesting aspect to discuss. What gives a series a good amount of representation?

For me strong representation means allowing for the least amount of gaps in the roster. Its not just about having a lot of characters but about having main characters, minor characters and villains all be properly represented. 

Despite not having a lot of banners I think Archenea has very proper representation because practically everyone of importance is there. Marth and all his retainers are present, many supporting characters like the Macedon woman and the archetype starters are there and almost every prominent villains got included at an early stage. Archenea still has some gaps like Medeus or Nyna but you could say just about any group is already very strongly represented. 

Same with Fates which has all the royals(several versions of them even), all the royal retainers, its main villain and several second gens. There's certainly room for some additions like Forrest but everyone who's absolutely required was included ages ago. 

This is contrasted with Tellius which is pretty much defined by the enormous gaps in its roster. Aside from the Black Knight we don't really have any serious Tellius villain, until recently the Laguz were completely absent, a large amount of Greil mercenaries and Dawn brigade members are still missing and Tellius can boast of very few miscellaneous minor characters. Its not just the low number of characters that's noticeable but the amount of large gaps that still need to be filled. 

Blazing sword sits somewhere in the middle. It minor characters are pretty well represented with Serra, Matthew, Raven, Lucius and the like all being included but aside from the two Ostians no member Lyn's or Eliwood's inner circle is present at this moment and Blazing Sword still lacks a real villain. Even some very prominent characters like Nils are still missing in action. 

I think its all about finding a good balance between main characters, minor characters, lord's loved ones and villains. 

Agreed, wanted to start a discussion on what characters should get priority. 

I agree Archanae is well represented because most of the plot relevant characters are in. Sure they could add Medeus, Nyna, cavalry Hardin and Kris but the wholes in that cast aren't big. 

I think the characters in Tellius most deserving of getting in are (in no particular order): Ashnard, Sephiran, Ilyana, Marcia, Kieran, Edward, Nolan, Leonardo, Pelleas, Lucia, Geoffrey, Jill, Haar, Rolf, Ranulf, Lethe, Skrimir, Kurthnaga, Tauroneo, Zihark and Boyd.

FE6 could still use Milady, Guinivere, Wolt, Allan, Lance, Murdock, Brunya, Elphin, Percival and Echidna. 

FE7 could use Pent, Louise, Athos, Nergal, Sonia, Nils, Oswin, Kent, Marcus and Sain. 

FE8 could use Selena, Caellach, Duessel, Cormag, Franz and Ross. 

Did I miss anyone or include anyone not deserving? 

20 hours ago, Baldrick said:

I'd judge good representation/decent part of the cast based on how long and in how much detail you could talk about the game without mentioning characters not in Heroes.

The best representation would draw from characters that have an effect on the plot, the leaders/generals of each country/group, characters that have a subplot, and members of the lord's posse or have a close relationship to the lord.

In that case, I think the original Dawn Brigade, despite lacking popularity and characterization, and the rest of the Greil Mercenaries should get in due to their close relationship with the lords.

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, Gregster101 said:

Honestly, that's a good question. I'd say Iago is worse just because of how much the Fates villains hurt the story, whereas with Surtr, I didn't really have any expectations for him cuz it's a fucking mobile game

I wouldn't say the fates villains specifically hurt the story. Well Garon I'll agree does hurt the story quite a bit but hans and Iago not really from what I can remember. What I like Hans and Iago is that their a perfect representation of that part of nohr which contrasts the royals. Now the story doesn't really do anything with this contrast but you know. Fates story is hurt more so by it's inability to present a morally gray argument because of avatar worship and Garon.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

That's surprising considering the hero characters like Corrin, Azura, Xander, Camilla, Peri (if she counts) get a lot of flack. 

Camilla is love and hate of course. 

As for Xander and Azura, from what I'm aware, there are those who bifurcate these two characters, or at least Xander. Plot Xander and Plot Azura- baaaaddd! Supports Xander and Supports Azura- good. For Roy through Ike, I don't think anyone has seen a great difference in the characters between plot and Supports; but I guess Fates managed, for some, to do the latter right, and the former wrong.

 

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Just ... not for a good long while. There are characters with far more priority than him who are not in, and Fates already has a lot of representation compared to the other games.

They've 45 of their 69 playables in this game, or 65.22% of its PC roster. Plus Garon and I guess you could count Mikoto. This is the most of any game both absolutely and as a percentage. (Although some would argue that even though Archanea has 82 and Tellius 73 PCs total, they have more "junk" characters than Fates- namely the underdeveloped RD additions and just about most Archaneans, both of which vastly outnumber the quantity of Corrinsexuals.)

And looking at Seasonals for fun, we're now up to 85 of them with Bunnyland 3. Of these, 27 belong to Fates, or 31.76% (not as high as I thought actually). Of the 32 (counting Zelgius) non-Seasonal alts, they comprise 8, or 25%, of them.

[Sasori]

Iago is really getting a thrashing and that isn't really undeserved. A shame since he's the only one ingame that initially showed at least a little promise.

In Iago's first move against the party he actually acted on his own. Iago did't believe the words of Garon's imaginary dragon friend and believed action needed to be taken against the potential traitor Corrin. After that he gets a moment where he's basically 'um sure, but why?' after Garon starts being pointlessly evil. Even him pushing for Corrin's execution to Garon is at least somewhat understandable since no one in their right mind would return to Nohr after being cast aside as collateral damage.

If Iago continued the line of being Nohr's only somewhat sane, but evil person he might score some points, but then he turns into a generic Garon toady really fast which kills his character.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never watched/read Othello, I only saw Otello the opera when I tried to get into that, apparently the opera was originally going to be titled Iago because of how dramatic he was in it (albeit they apparently made him a bit more one-dimensionally evil- still a very brilliant evil though). Iago there certainly was wickedly good, his soliloquy of sorts explaining himself was perfect. I need to actually get a copy of the play. 

And I think you answered why we don't have Iago, Hans, Sumeragi, and Anankos yet, and why it took so long for Garon. I don't think anyone loves Fates for the villains, it's all about the hero characters. IS is likely aware of this. Might be why they made Kana of all things a GHB so long ago, they didn't feel they needed a villain; Adrift didn't have a GHB, did it? Would have been a good chance for Arete or Anankos there, but nope. 

Oh I'm not surprised at all that the Fates villains aren't in the game. We were discussing the different factors that should be weighed when determining a character's inclusion, and one of them was representation. Fates is one of the most represented games in the series, but I don't think it's over represented as it's representation is slightly eschewed. I think the game(s) with the best representation is Archanea as they have basically everyone except Medeus (even Nyna I don't consider a major loss since, despite being playable at the very end of Mystery, she's not really a fighter).

Edited March 20, 2019 by Jotari

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For Roy through Ike, I don't think anyone has seen a great difference in the characters between plot and Supports; but I guess Fates managed, for some, to do the latter right, and the former wrong.

But Roy fans claim he's interesting in his supports. 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

they have more "junk" characters than Fates- namely the underdeveloped RD additions and just about most Archaneans, both of which vastly outnumber the quantity of Corrinsexuals.)

What "junk" characters are in Tellius IYO?

My list would be:

1. Fiona

2. Vika

3. Aran

4. Gareth

5. Kyzha

6. Lyre

7. Meg

That's not a lot and I think Lyre and Vika can be justified to put in a banner due to their class and design. Meg too since she's one of the few canon sword armours. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

That's not a lot and I think Lyre and Vika can be justified to put in a banner due to their class and design. Meg too since she's one of the few canon sword armours. 

A fair list actually, but I'd add a few more. Nealuchi is an old man sans supports (he did first show up in PoR yes, but his playability only extends to RD; he does have Beast Flier on his side), and Laura is quite bad too. I think Devdan/Danved could be added to this list, his personality being rather bizarre.

Leonardo, Edward, and Nolan are lucky they've the Dawn Brigade backstory notes. Hopefully IS remembers those exist if they ever come to FEH.

 

35 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I think the game(s) with the best representation is Archanea as they have basically everyone except Medeus (even Nyna I don't consider a major loss since, despite being playable at the very end of Mystery, she's not really a fighter).

If you're looking at just plot representation, Binding Blade might be a contender. Roy, Cecilia, Narcian, Zephiel, and Idunn are a pretty solid group. No Jahn, no Elffin, no Guinevere, and no "Roy we should- you're wrong again Merlinus!", or Arcardo and Roartz (they probably didn't even make CYL, even though they occupy an inordinate amount of the plot for how awful they are) but overall, not a bad bunch. (Lilina does not belong in the plot group, and Brunnya and Murdock don't really get much time- more than Bryce and Bertram, but still not all much, Narcian is a hog.)

I would add at least Gotoh to your Archanea list, you need the man without whom Marth would've had no idea Medeus and the Earth Dragons were returning in Book 2. And I do think it helps Archanea it is rather character-poor (and yet, doing FE6 right after FE3, I think FE3 might have done better with subsidiary characters in the plot, though TBF, FE6 added Supports).

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A fair list actually, but I'd add a few more. Nealuchi is an old man sans supports (he did first show up in PoR yes, but his playability only extends to RD; he does have Beast Flier on his side), and Laura is quite bad too. I think Devdan/Danved could be added to this list, his personality being rather bizarre.

Leonardo, Edward, and Nolan are lucky they've the Dawn Brigade backstory notes. Hopefully IS remembers those exist if they ever come to FEH.

 

If you're looking at just plot representation, Binding Blade might be a contender. Roy, Cecilia, Narcian, Zephiel, and Idunn are a pretty solid group. No Jahn, no Elffin, no Guinevere, and no "Roy we should- you're wrong again Merlinus!", or Arcardo and Roartz (they probably didn't even make CYL, even though they occupy an inordinate amount of the plot for how awful they are) but overall, not a bad bunch. (Lilina does not belong in the plot group, and Brunnya and Murdock don't really get much time- more than Bryce and Bertram, but still not all much, Narcian is a hog.)

I would add at least Gotoh to your Archanea list, you need the man without whom Marth would've had no idea Medeus and the Earth Dragons were returning in Book 2. And I do think it helps Archanea it is rather character-poor (and yet, doing FE6 right after FE3, I think FE3 might have done better with subsidiary characters in the plot, though TBF, FE6 added Supports).

Plot focus isn't the only thing that matters though. Getting a good scope of the game and kind of characters is relevant too (that's why it's great that we finally got someone like Sue in the recent banner). For comparison, even though none of the Dawn Brigade members are important to Radiant Dawn, the game still feels like it's lacking from their near blanket exclusion. Not that Binding Blade is super weak in that department with some of it's more recent additions. I also wouldn't undersell Murdock, he's less, I guess vocal, than Narcian, but he's still a rather important character in the game, being the ultimate enemy general, the one that saved Zephiel's life and the dude that shows up to intimidate Narcian to bring out his best moments. Arcardo and Roartz are weirdly forgettable despite how important they are to the overall plot.

Also love abounds should have been Old Eliwood and Hector.

You're right about Gotoh granted.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I also wouldn't undersell Murdock, he's less, I guess vocal, than Narcian, but he's still a rather important character in the game, being the ultimate enemy general, the one that saved Zephiel's life and the dude that shows up to intimidate Narcian to bring out his best moments.

Yeah, I wouldn't totally rule out the other two Wyvern Generals, Murdock does have that crucial bit of backstory (also, can we get visual representation of the moment Zephiel sprung from his coffin and killed his father?). And then they had him cameo in FE7, and prove he discovered the elixir of immortality.

And Brunnya, the weakest of the WGs to me (and Not-Emperor Galle is probably even weaker), but she does her poignant Chapter 23 moment. And I liked her bit at the start of Sacae route "Bern will support you Arcardo and Roartz. *They leave* Good riddance and thank Zephiel I'm giving those pieces of filth the bare minimum of support, and even that is too much".

Good point on Sue too, I like Sacae, and I kinda liked the route. Well not all of it, first battle had a real bad Village chase for the northeast one (for once in FE, I didn't bother resetting when I checked to discover it was only Eclipse I lost), and the indoor battle didn't need so much status staff or FoW (but it was absolutely reasonable in size by FE6 standards- Mother Earth and Father Sky I'm am high on ayahuasca for that!). Overall I liked it and the battle though, plus I kept Dayan around with Sin. Can we please get them both sometime soon?

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Yeah, I wouldn't totally rule out the other two Wyvern Generals, Murdock does have that crucial bit of backstory (also, can we get visual representation of the moment Zephiel sprung from his coffin and killed his father?). And then they had him cameo in FE7, and prove he discovered the elixir of immortality.

And Brunnya, the weakest of the WGs to me (and Not-Emperor Galle is probably even weaker), but she does her poignant Chapter 23 moment. And I liked her bit at the start of Sacae route "Bern will support you Arcardo and Roartz. *They leave* Good riddance and thank Zephiel I'm giving those pieces of filth the bare minimum of support, and even that is too much".

Good point on Sue too, I like Sacae, and I kinda liked the route. Well not all of it, first battle had a real bad Village chase for the northeast one (for once in FE, I didn't bother resetting when I checked to discover it was only Eclipse I lost), and the indoor battle didn't need so much status staff or FoW (but it was absolutely reasonable in size by FE6 standards- Mother Earth and Father Sky I'm am high on ayahuasca for that!). Overall I liked it and the battle though, plus I kept Dayan around with Sin. Can we please get them both sometime soon?

I'd ranke Gale higher than Brunnya. He has some good solid connections with two playable characters and Narcian.

Sue's forging bonds makes is all about how Dayan isn't in Heroes, which makes me suspect he's either on the cards to come up in the future, or basically confirmed that they never intend to make him.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Jotari

[Zangetsu]

After reading some posts about it, I only want Iago now because how much salt he would generate. Although I'm very surprise how many people are defending him right now.

 

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Is Fates Iago worse than Surtr? 

He's most certainly not. Subjectivity be damn, Iago isn't some over power antagonist that continuously gets shill by IS as the ultimate villain. His ultimate fate is fitting considering how ineffective as villain  he is in all 3 routes.

 

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

What "junk" characters are in Tellius IYO?

My list would be:

1. Fiona

2. Vika

3. Aran

4. Gareth

5. Kyzha

6. Lyre

7. Meg

That's not a lot and I think Lyre and Vika can be justified to put in a banner due to their class and design. Meg too since she's one of the few canon sword armours. 

I must be missing some context here, but I could've sworn Meg is a requested character her diverse design. Which I find to be just as shallow but meh.

 

14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Sue's forging bonds makes is all about how Dayan is in Heroes, which makes me suspect he's either on the cards to come up in the future, or basically confirmed that they never intend to make him.

I'm disappointed how much of her support talks Dayan instead of her own father. What an unbelievably wasted opportunity.