Religion.

[Phoenix]

Is there a historical book written by Satan or any of his followers that states how he does things? Considering hell exists, I find it hard to believe it would be at all enjoyable. He's not exactly a guy you would trust.

My brother once got pissed at me for adhereing to one of my religious practices and when it was over he was overjoyed and said this : "YES!!! Satan has you!"

I wanted to punch him but realized that he doesn't take this kind of stuff seriously and didn't know how badly he offended me.

Satan in my opinion is the destroyer. This was mentioned numerous times in the book. He is what it says he is. What is he destroying? People should think about this before thinking of him as some do what you want free spirit. He has his reasons for wanting us to do unrestrained acts of pleasure.

[Florete]

The Bible basically says that Satan is the evil guy who encourages people to sin. God says Satan is a bad guy. I see no reason to trust God.

Ya know, we should probably drop this, I have a feeling we're not on the same page here.

I'd rather this stay a debate about truth.

Well, ok.

I've heard decent arguments from either side, but I refuse to believe the Bible is a load of BS, like I know some people do. I don't know about anyone here, but some friends IRL do. Point is, the events written really did happen. Science and archaeological dating or whatever has actually proven that themselves. Plus, it's never died out; by it, I mean faith and the Bible itself. Fads come and go, but the Bible and faith in God has persevered through the centuries. That has to mean something.

[Phoenix]

Faith in the God of Abraham making it through the ages means that there's some really good book preservers and teachers out there :)

[Defeatist Elitist]

Well, ok.

I've heard decent arguments from either side, but I refuse to believe the Bible is a load of BS, like I know some people do. I don't know about anyone here, but some friends IRL do. Point is, the events written really did happen. Science and archaeological dating or whatever has actually proven that themselves. Plus, it's never died out; by it, I mean faith and the Bible itself. Fads come and go, but the Bible and faith in God has persevered through the centuries. That has to mean something.

Some of the events happened. At very different times than many Christians believed. Under very different circumstances.

ie. Moses didn't part the Red Sea, Jesus never made crippled men uncrippled, etc.

Hewbrews DID however have an exodus from Egypt, blah blah blah.

Besides, some things in the Bible are obviously not true, and shouldn't be taken literally. If they shouldn't, why should anything else?

[Phoenix]

Some of the events happened. At very different times than many Christians believed. Under very different circumstances.

ie. Moses didn't part the Red Sea, Jesus never made crippled men uncrippled, etc.

Hewbrews DID however have an exodus from Egypt, blah blah blah.

Besides, some things in the Bible are obviously not true, and shouldn't be taken literally. If they shouldn't, why should anything else?

Moses never parted the red sea. It says God did remember? Jesus didn't heal people, God did. He said that everything came from his father. Edited December 1, 2008 by Phoenix

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Well, ok.

I've heard decent arguments from either side, but I refuse to believe the Bible is a load of BS, like I know some people do. I don't know about anyone here, but some friends IRL do. Point is, the events written really did happen. Science and archaeological dating or whatever has actually proven that themselves. Plus, it's never died out; by it, I mean faith and the Bible itself. Fads come and go, but the Bible and faith in God has persevered through the centuries. That has to mean something.

I hope you're not suggesting that God is real because of belief...

[Florete]

I hope you're not suggesting that God is real because of belief...

I'm suggesting the possibility.

Here's the point; both sides have only evidence. Neither side can prove themselves right nor the other side wrong. The believers have a historical book with lessons still taught today and real historical events, while the non-believers have all their science and stuff. Neither is direct proof of a God existing or not. So there's only one thing left; a choice. Do you choose to believe, or do you choose to be a non-believer? Saying either one is wrong or right is completely unjustified and cannot be proven.

[Phoenix]

Told ya guys it doesn't matter if God's real or not. Can't prove he is, can't prove he isn't. Believe what you want to believe. Hell you're already doing it, so just keep doing it.

[Fox]

Moses never parted the red sea. It says God did remember? Jesus didn't heal people, God did. He said that everything came from his father.

Uh, so? That doesn't change Revan's point, which was that those events never occured.

[Phoenix]

Uh, so? That doesn't change Revan's point, which was that those events never occured.

I like people to "know their stuff" ;)

[Fox]

I like people to "know their stuff" ;)

That's a cop out. You didn't offer any evidence to prove Revan otherwise, so for all intents and purposes, you're agreeing with the statement that certain key events from the new and old testaments never took place.

[Florete]

Some of the events happened. At very different times than many Christians believed. Under very different circumstances.

ie. Moses didn't part the Red Sea, Jesus never made crippled men uncrippled, etc.

Hewbrews DID however have an exodus from Egypt, blah blah blah.

Besides, some things in the Bible are obviously not true, and shouldn't be taken literally. If they shouldn't, why should anything else?

Wait a sec, how do you know? Were you there? Were you alive thousands of years ago?

[Phoenix]

That's a cop out. You didn't offer any evidence to prove Revan otherwise, so for all intents and purposes, you're agreeing with the statement that certain key events from the new and old testaments never took place.

Don't put beliefs in my head, pal. You're going to lose. I'm not offering a counter because I was only interested in the referrenced part of the post. I replied to what I was intending to, nothing more. If he thinks those events didn't happen a certain way that's his business. I don't care.

[Fox]

What I fail to understand is how everybody's God is somehow the "right" God. How is the God of modern day Christianity more believable than the gods of Greek or Egyptian mythology? If you're going to come out and say that the events which took place in the Bible actually occured in history, isn't it reasonable to assume that say, Aphrodite really was born from the severed testes of a titan? At what point are the ancient pagan faiths somehow less plausible or believable than current ones, when the events that took place in the Bible are just as outlandish as the ones that occured in, say, Greek mythology?

[Florete]

What I fail to understand is how everybody's God is somehow the "right" God. How is the God of modern day Christianity more believable than the gods of Greek or Egyptian mythology? If you're going to come out and say that the events which took place in the Bible actually occured in history, isn't it reasonable to assume that say, Aphrodite really was born from the severed testes of a titan? At what point are the ancient pagan faiths somehow less plausible or believable than current ones, when the events that took place in the Bible are just as outlandish as the ones that occured in, say, Greek mythology?

I'm not educated on other religions, but I'm sure that if I were, I could answer that question. I do remember my father once talking about why Christianity tends to be the religion more generally accepted, but that was years ago. If he were here, I know he could tell you and it would make sense, but I'm not telling him about this place for a reason I don't even care about that much.

[Raven]

If I could believe the story of Moses parting the Red Sea, and Jesus walking on water, I would be religious. I don't however belive these things can happen, so it's knocked any other religious beliefs I do have off the wall. Nothing against religious people though, people are free to believe in what they want. I just have... personal reasons for not believing in a God or religion in general.

[Balcerzak]

Is there a historical book written by Satan or any of his followers that states how he does things? Considering hell exists, I find it hard to believe it would be at all enjoyable. He's not exactly a guy you would trust.

The Bible basically says that Satan is the evil guy who encourages people to sin. God says Satan is a bad guy. I see no reason to trust God.

Ya know, we should probably drop this, I have a feeling we're not on the same page here.

I'd rather this stay a debate about truth.

Biblically, Satan actually works for YHWH, as far as OT is concerned. He's essential the Lord's prosecuting attorney, for lack of a better analogy.

The common belief of Satan = Lucifer = fallen angel cast out for rebellion, is mainly due to Milton's Paradise Lost, which while a great work of a literature, as far as religious matters are concerned it (and for that matter Dante's Divine Comedy as well) amounts to little more than Biblical fanfiction.

[lolDeath]

I do remember my father once talking about why Christianity tends to be the religion more generally accepted

Did he mention the long history of pushing it onto others? I think that might have a "little" to do with it. But any religion that is basically "follow a few rules and come to a specific building every now and then and everything will be wonderful" is sure to have plenty of followers, really.

"Told ya guys it doesn't matter if God's real or not. Can't prove he is, can't prove he isn't. Believe what you want to believe. Hell you're already doing it, so just keep doing it."

If it is being discussed I would say it matters to SOMEONE.

[Florete]

Did he mention the long history of pushing it onto others? I think that might have a "little" to do with it. But any religion that is basically "follow a few rules and come to a specific building every now and then and everything will be wonderful" is sure to have plenty of followers, really.

My point is that people continue to believe. I'm sure other religions (Not all, but some) try to push their beliefs onto people as well, but with less success. It's easier to live with Christianity because, compared to other religions, it ultimately makes the most sense.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

My point is that people continue to believe. I'm sure other religions (Not all, but some) try to push their beliefs onto people as well, but with less success. It's easier to live with Christianity because, compared to other religions, it ultimately makes the most sense.

Opinion. There's concepts in other religions that are easier to understand than the stuff the bible says.

[Judge Judy]

My point is that people continue to believe. I'm sure other religions (Not all, but some) try to push their beliefs onto people as well, but with less success. It's easier to live with Christianity because, compared to other religions, it ultimately makes the most sense.

You can't generalise a subjective point of view. For some Christianity makes sense while for others it doesn't make sense.

[Balcerzak]

My point is that people continue to believe. I'm sure other religions (Not all, but some) try to push their beliefs onto people as well, but with less success. It's easier to live with Christianity because, compared to other religions, it ultimately makes the most sense.

Bolded for WTF.

Go. Reread the NT. It's ridiculously eschatological. The writers of the gospels, Paul, and the other writers of the epistles, they all firmly believed that The End Is Coming In Our Lifetime^TM.

And it didn't.

See also: NT Father not matching with OT YHWH. This is one the worst cases of deity schizophrenia that I'm aware of, not to mention how ridiculous the concept of the Trinity is, &c. There are plenty of things in Christianity that don't make sense, unless you've been raised in an environment where they're held to be self-evident and do not proceed to question said tenets.

Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, I fail to see how you can flat-out tell me that Christianity makes the most sense, without even having bothered to investigate other traditions (This is an assumption, if you can prove me wrong, go right ahead). Have you studied Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Satanism, Hellenistic Reconstructionism, Asatru, or other faiths? Then do not presume to make comparisons for which you are not qualified. I have various acquaintances from another board who are members of nearly every faith I've listed (and some I left unlisted), who obviously feel that for them their faith makes more sense than Christianity does.

I would wager that the reason for Christianity's widespread popularity hinges on one of its core tenets being to evangelize, to "Spread the Good News" and convert the gentiles. (I think it's referred to as "The Great Commission", but I might be getting my technical terms mixed up.) Many other faiths have no such desire to win converts. They are closed cultures; you either have to be born into them, or seek out to learn about them and then petition to be allowed to convert. Such a faith would quite naturally have a much lower membership roll than a faith such as Christianity. In fact, the only other religion that I'm aware of that is actively recruiting would be Islam, which (not coincidentally) is, aside from Christianity, one of the fastest growing and most widespread religions, assuming I remember correctly. NB: I know you mentioned this in your post, but the mention was so brief I felt it needed further elaboration.

[Judge Judy]

Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, I fail to see how you can flat-out tell me that Christianity makes the most sense, without even having bothered to investigate other traditions (This is an assumption, if you can prove me wrong, go right ahead). Have you studied Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Satanism, Hellenistic Reconstructionism, Asatru, or other faiths? Then do not presume to make comparisons for which you are not qualified. I have various acquaintances from another board who are members of nearly every faith I've listed (and some I left unlisted), who obviously feel that for them their faith makes more sense than Christianity does.

Agreed. Many people feel their own religion makes alot more sense than others and that they should not question the content of it. God has given us a brain and should be exercised. I feel many people assume its bad to question their own religion.

Like I'm a muslim, but I have to admit, there are certain things which don't make sense in the holy book. I would also like to add, at times I do question my own religion. Its a normal thing to do really. Its not like I am going against my own religion.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Dark

[Meteor]

Logically, religion doesn't make sense.

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

Logically, religion doesn't make sense.

See, that right there is one of the reasons that I follow no religion.