civility and the internet

[Kintenbo]

Me, it's indeed easier to comunicate who I am on the internet. In real life, my speech in not always clear and people often have trouble understanding me. (I have a REALLY deep voice, apparently) The things I type are the things I usually mean. However, there was a time I got bored and wondered what it was liked to be banned from a forum. I decided to spam some Sonic forums, since it's not like I'd ever join one for practical uses. I named myself Denning and kept on saying "This is a message from Lord Nergal, I await you on the Dread Isle". I would never troll a forum, though, just freak some people out, at worst.

Still, like it's been said, since people won't know who you are, you can either go full out honest with yourself, or make yourself out to be something that you are definately not. Unless you know the person in real life, there's no true way to tell if what a person says about him or herself is true. A guy could say that he's a hot, fit girl around your age, but really be a middle aged man with bad intentions. I could be lying about me having a deep voice! (although, with Fire Emblem DS coming around, and it having voice chat, I assure you it's true) Still, it's possible that I'm really a girl with a high pitched voice. (which I assure you, I'm not) Point is, the internet can be a place of expressing yourself, or making people think you're something you're not.

[Rei]

People feel the need to talk smack over the internet. Hell, a lot of people on the internet also lie about themselves and their lives since they don't need to prove anything. People talk smack, because as said before, it's really easy to do that behind a screen anonymously.

[Steven Tyler]

The internet has created some of the biggest bunch of cowards and pussies of all time. So you are hiding behide a computer screen! So fuckin' what? That doesn't give you the right to harass and attack anyone online. Bunch of soft, pathetic sons of bitches some folks are online. Esp. the internet tough guys who brag about being strong and hardcore online and yet, in real life, they are cowards.

[Meteor]

I think it's curious how people do "bad" things when there aren't repercussions.

[lolDeath]

I just want to say, this thread has actually caused me to have a level of respect for people on the internet, which is a new thing to me for the most part.

But yeah we all know the typical internet tough guy, they come around, get confused with trolls.

Nightgraves, if you remember anything else about that study, even if this topic has died, feel free to PM it to me. I have always figured the lack of body language played a role but I have no way to get real input on it.

[Rei]

I think it's curious how people do "bad" things when there aren't repercussions.

It's because they think it's funny, or they're having fun doing it.

[Crystal Shards]

I think it's curious how people do "bad" things when there aren't repercussions.

It's called deindividuation. It's the loss of a person's sense of individuality, and as a result, the reduction of normal constraints on behavior. Deindividuation results from a couple of things, including accountability cues (if you're not likely to be held accountable for what you say/do, deviance increases) and attentional cues (if your attention is not focused on yourself, deviance increases). The internet provides a relief from both sets of cues by providing anonymity, essentially. As such, people feel they can "get away" with things, and some of the most ignorant things have been recorded on the internet as a result.

[DeSu]

The internet has created some of the biggest bunch of cowards and pussies of all time. So you are hiding behide a computer screen! So fuckin' what? That doesn't give you the right to harass and attack anyone online.

I'd also like you to keep in mind that some people are overly sensitive to online words. I can think of a person whose name starts with an "L" who is overly sensitive here...

BTW, not saying it's justified, but nonsense on the internet really shouldn't be taken seriously. I will admit, however, that not everybody has the ability to filter the good posts from the shit posts.

[Crystal Shards]

I don't understand why people separate the "real world" from the "internet world." Either way it's your life, and you have every right to have emotions based off of what people say and do. Someone talking crap about you on the internet can hurt just as much as someone talking crap about your offline.

[Knife]

This.

I guess it's easier to be an asshole in the internet cause the consequences are far less worse on the internet than in real life.

Scenario 1 (Internet)...

Person A: Go eat a dick fatass.

Person B (is an admin): Fuck you. *Bans from site*

Summary: Pretty harmless.

Scenario 2 (IRL)...

Person A: Go eat a dick fatass.

Person B: *Beats up person A* All talk. What a pussy.

Summary: Painful.

IMO, acting differently on the net is stupid. It's like they're trying to escape reality, which is pretty pointless.

I think that bing banned from a site you've been a member of for 2 years is harsher than being beat up.

I don't understand why people separate the "real world" from the "internet world." Either way it's your life, and you have every right to have emotions based off of what people say and do. Someone talking crap about you on the internet can hurt just as much as someone talking crap about your offline.

No, not really.

[Crystal Shards]

No, not really.

Yes, it can (and note the word "can" because chances are you overlooked it). If you form an honest-to-God friendship and it gets shoved in the dirt, or if you are betrayed or shunned (this includes being banned) from a group you heavily associated with, you bet it fucking hurts. Denying that is ignorant.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Crystal Shards

[Meteor]

As such, people feel they can "get away" with things, and some of the most ignorant things have been recorded on the internet as a result.

Yes, I understand that. I'm saying it's interesting how people act differently when they're going to get away, as you say. Rei had a pretty decent guess, which is that it's more fun to be naughty.

Someone talking crap about you on the internet can hurt just as much as someone talking crap about your offline.

And you can ignore it just as easily. In fact, I would argue it's even easier online. (Adding to your point, not debating it)

Edited November 25, 2008 by Meteor

[Iceland]

It's called deindividuation. It's the loss of a person's sense of individuality, and as a result, the reduction of normal constraints on behavior. Deindividuation results from a couple of things, including accountability cues (if you're not likely to be held accountable for what you say/do, deviance increases) and attentional cues (if your attention is not focused on yourself, deviance increases). The internet provides a relief from both sets of cues by providing anonymity, essentially. As such, people feel they can "get away" with things, and some of the most ignorant things have been recorded on the internet as a result.

This is roughly along the lines of what I was planning to say. Anonymity lowers inhibitions. I remember a study correlating graffiti to the population density of an area that basically showed that the more people there are in an area (and, correspondingly, the less likely one person is to be recognized) the more graffiti there is per capita. The same applies to the internet. You know that you can just assume a false name and trash some random forum, and no one has to know its you. There are no consequences.

[Wist]

It's called deindividuation. It's the loss of a person's sense of individuality, and as a result, the reduction of normal constraints on behavior. Deindividuation results from a couple of things, including accountability cues (if you're not likely to be held accountable for what you say/do, deviance increases) and attentional cues (if your attention is not focused on yourself, deviance increases). The internet provides a relief from both sets of cues by providing anonymity, essentially. As such, people feel they can "get away" with things, and some of the most ignorant things have been recorded on the internet as a result.

I was entirely unaware of this as a recognized phenomenon. Thank you for bringing up this interesting concept.

This is roughly along the lines of what I was planning to say. Anonymity lowers inhibitions. I remember a study correlating graffiti to the population density of an area that basically showed that the more people there are in an area (and, correspondingly, the less likely one person is to be recognized) the more graffiti there is per capita. The same applies to the internet. You know that you can just assume a false name and trash some random forum, and no one has to know its you. There are no consequences.

Are you perhaps referring to this (PDF file) study in Sweden? It came up in a search but I'm not sure if it's the same study (regardless, it's interesting; I was never knew of such research). Edited November 25, 2008 by Wist

[Iceland]

The PDF file won't load for me, is there another link you could offer? :(

[Tirinity]

It may be the internet, but you're still dealing with people, and you're still hearing opinions, and it's still a part of your life. I don't think you can just make a line that seperates internet-real life in general, sure there might be a line for some people, but there might not be for others.

It greatly depends on how the person him/herself views themselves, the internet and the way people on it should be treated.

IMO you're still hurting someone's feelings if you go mad at them whether it's online or in real life, ....if there were a bot screaming things at you like '-insert random curseword-', and you knew it was a bot, then it wouldn't MATTER. Why not? Because you know it's a bot, not a person aiming at you specifically because they dislike you anymore. The fact that it's people saying things, even though they are online, can be enough.

If nothing on the internet should be taken personally, why go to a forum where you get a username, avatar and what not?

:D Sorry if that sounded strange....I'm still waking up~

[bunny: spider bitten]

I was entirely unaware of this as a recognized phenomenon. Thank you for bringing up this interesting concept.

This sounds so sarcastic.

Which brings us to another point. Words have more meaning when paired with tone. Some people apply the wrong tone to a post and suddenly it's twisted.

Edited November 25, 2008 by bunny

[Esau of Isaac]

No, not really.

Yes, really. You may not in this case, but individuals form attachments to things, and the internet is no different from everything else. Many people enjoy some forum or area to gather, and when it's destroyed or the one in question is banned for whatever reason, it can be affecting, to say the least.

[Iceland]

This sounds so sarcastic.

Which brings us to another point. Words have more meaning when paired with tone. Some people apply the wrong tone to a post and suddenly it's twisted.

Which is why the internet needs sarcasm tags. Anyone typing something can voice what they're writing in their head in a sarcastic tone, but that does not necessarily mean that the person reading it will use that same sarcastic tone in their head while doing so. Misunderstandings can lead to hostility over a failure of communication that just would not happen in vocal communication. I also think that two well-intentioned people will work out the conflict quickly and reasonably, with no lingering hard feelings. Just because they have anonymity doesn't mean someone will automatically commit a crime. Each person has a different sense of Civic Duty, for lack of a better term, and if they feel like committing a crime they may not commit it because they feel it is too risky whereas someone else with a lesser sense of Civic Duty would go ahead and commit it anyways. For instance, spitting on a sidewalk. I do it every now and then, but I am less likely to do it with a lot of people around and would never do it in front of a police officer without a good reason. (Bug flew in my mouth or something) The same applies to the internet. The more people know you the less likely you are to do something 'wrong' because you are worried about their perception of you.

[Wist]

The PDF file won't load for me, is there another link you could offer? :(

Ah, sorry about that. Try this one.

This sounds so sarcastic.

Which brings us to another point. Words have more meaning when paired with tone. Some people apply the wrong tone to a post and suddenly it's twisted.

I had no intention of hinting at any sort of sarcasm, it was an honest response. Looking back, however, I can understand how that may have been misinterpreted and you bring up a very good point. I agree with you and Iceland that the inability to express a tone of voice allows for a far greater chance of miscommunication. It is a likely contributing factor to on-line hostility.

[Meteor]

This sounds so sarcastic.

Which brings us to another point. Words have more meaning when paired with tone. Some people apply the wrong tone to a post and suddenly it's twisted.

Tone needs not be present if you know the other person's writing style/sense of humor. Even without knowing, it can be helpful to run a phrase which seems out of context or inappropriate over mentally a couple times to consider all possible meanings.

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything; I probably would have come to your conclusion if I had no past experience with Wist's posting.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Meteor

[Knife]

Yeah, it does depend on your attachment to the internet. Most people don't get that attached, but some do.