Triangle Strategy Thread

[vanguard333]

So, I'm at chapter 13; the first three-way vote in the game.

Spoiler

Choosing to flood the city was a decision I very quickly discounted. However, choosing between Frederica's plan and Roland's plan was the challenge. I really wasn't sure which one I thought would be better, and honestly, why not both? Why not blow up the bridge and then sneak into the castle? Even if you've isolated it, it's still a castle.

One curious thing struck my eye: I know that, for voting, green = morality, gold = utility and red = liberty, yet for chapter 13, Frederica's plan is green (i.e. morality) and Roland's is red (i.e. liberty). Normally, it's the other way around for those two.

 

Well, I went with Frederica's idea, and I ended up enduring an extremely grueling battle in which I lost at least four of my units. I thought for sure I was going to have to restart it, but I somehow emerged victorious.

It's a bridge battle with enemies on both sides of the bridge, and that would be fine if you could find a way to cleverly fight the enemies on one side of the bridge and then the other, but there just isn't enough space. Did anyone else find this chapter particularly grueling?

 

Also, is there a way to find medals of bravery? I ask because I now have a medal of valor for promoting my units from veteran to elite, but I still have one unit that's stuck as a recruit.

Edited March 25, 2022 by vanguard333

[Alastor15243]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Did anyone else find this chapter particularly grueling?

I basically magdumped my quietuses while rushing one side to kill as many as possible and get breathing room. Frederica did some heavy work with her insane DPS potential. Helped that one of the two bosses hid up a ladder for half the battle and could be safely ignored.

[vanguard333]

15 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I basically magdumped my quietuses while rushing one side to kill as many as possible and get breathing room. Frederica did some heavy work with her insane DPS potential. Helped that one of the two bosses hid up a ladder for half the battle and could be safely ignored.

I see. I tried to do something similar, and it only sort-of worked. For me, neither boss hid up a ladder or anything like that; the only enemy units that didn't go on the offense were the healers, so all my units were taking an immense battering and my only healers were Geela and Narve (my other healers are underleveled because I rarely use them).

I also tried getting my more fragile ranged units up the ladders so that they could safely rain down attacks, but the only unit with whom I succeeded in doing this was Hughette.

[Etrurian emperor]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Also, is there a way to find medals of bravery? I ask because I now have a medal of valor for promoting my units from veteran to elite, but I still have one unit that's stuck as a recruit.

You can buy them from Archibalt 

[Dark Holy Elf]

I found that particular battle the hardest in the game (of the ones I've done so far), too. It made me switch off of Hard Mode. I can see how one would do it (my strategy was basically as Alastor outlined), and I was kinda close, but I was really interested in the story and didn't want to bash my head into a wall against it, or grind.

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

You can buy them from Archibalt 

I see. Last I checked, I was only able to buy one from Archibald. I'll check again.

[Etrurian emperor]

I instantly moved to Benedicts side of that particular chapter. Brutal but also the only plan that made sense. Frederica's plan especially sounded like gibberish considering who it is she's planning to negotiate with. Her stage does do a lot of justice to her character though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I instantly moved to Benedicts side of that particular chapter. Brutal but also the only plan that made sense.

Interesting. Personally, that was a rare time I actually completely disagreed with a Benedict plan.

Spoiler

The game kinda undersells how horrific destroying a dam with a city downstream is. Recommended reading. Of course we don't know the exact geographical specifics which make a difference to just how much damage there would be, but I was still pretty horrified by the plan myself.

Additionally, from a long-term strategic standpoint, I just didn't get it? Gustadolph had taken the city with, by all accounts, relatively little loss of life. Taking it back in such a catastrophic fashion would do a lot to paint Roland as the villain in the eyes of the people. "but but but he's the rightful king" would ring hollow in the ears of citizens whose houses were washed away in a flood caused by said king.

I haven't yet played the route to see how the game handles it, but my initial reaction was strongly against for both those reasons.

 

[vanguard333]

22 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I instantly moved to Benedicts side of that particular chapter. Brutal but also the only plan that made sense. Frederica's plan especially sounded like gibberish considering who it is she's planning to negotiate with. Her stage does do a lot of justice to her character though.

It really doesn't make sense as a plan though; he has no idea how much damage it will do, and when laying siege to a castle that's within/behind a city, the last thing you want to do is anger the citizens within that city, as they will stand against you and they greatly outnumber your army. It's one reason practically every medieval army began a siege to a city by saying something along the lines of, "Surrender and let us in, and we will do no harm; force us to have to breach your city's walls, and we will give no quarter"; it was a delicate balance between making the enemy soldiers fear them and avoiding the citizenry hating them.

 

Both Frederica's plan and Roland's: surrounding and isolating a castle and slowly starving out the people within it, and sneaking into a castle late at night and stealthily slaughtering the garrison, respectively, are both valid strategies rooted in the real-world history of siege warfare. Armies would avoid trying to directly assault a castle if they could, as castles are generally good at their job: enabling as few as possible to fight off as many as possible, so the most common way to besiege a castle was to surround it and starve its defenders, but that plan's weakness is that it takes a long time and, during that time, you're likely in enemy territory... which isn't the case in chapter 13.

If they didn't have time, finding a way to get a select few inside to either open the gate for the rest of the army or fight the enemy garrison themselves was the next plan. This often involved tactics like disguising your soldiers as reinforcements sent to help protect the castle, but I do know of one case where the "sneak in using a secret passage" tactic was used: Edinburgh Castle. After the English army took the castle in the War of Scottish Independence, Scottish forces took the castle back by using a rope (to scale the wall) and a secret narrow path up the volcanic crag on which the castle sits; a path that was known only to those who lived in Edinburgh.

 

38 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Interesting. Personally, that was a rare time I actually completely disagreed with a Benedict plan.

  Reveal hidden contents

The game kinda undersells how horrific destroying a dam with a city downstream is. Recommended reading. Of course we don't know the exact geographical specifics which make a difference to just how much damage there would be, but I was still pretty horrified by the plan myself.

Additionally, from a long-term strategic standpoint, I just didn't get it? Gustadolph had taken the city with, by all accounts, relatively little loss of life. Taking it back in such a catastrophic fashion would do a lot to paint Roland as the villain in the eyes of the people. "but but but he's the rightful king" would ring hollow in the ears of citizens whose houses were washed away in a flood caused by said king.

I haven't yet played the route to see how the game handles it, but my initial reaction was strongly against for both those reasons.

 

Agreed; those are both very good reasons for avoiding such a plan.

 

Plus, I saw someone compare this game to Path of Radiance earlier; I distinctly remember how, in that game, Daein opening the Talgera floodgates was treated in the story as extremely morally reprehensible.

[Alastor15243]

Frankly, I was pissed off when I discovered that no matter what choice you do there, the place still looks like you followed Benedict's plan, with no plausible explanation.

[vanguard333]

13 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Frankly, I was pissed off when I discovered that no matter what choice you do there, the place still looks like you followed Benedict's plan, with no plausible explanation.

I don't know; I only just started chapter 14. But, if I had to guess, it would probably be for the same reason that Benedict's plan is the default if you don't persuade anyone.

[Saint Rubenio]

Booker is so funny. He's the most throwaway, forgettable, no-character character with a face in the entire game. His personality, background and role in the story can all be described with two words: "Sorsley's assistant." There's absolutely nothing else to him. Heck, he doesn't even get a proper conclusion if you smuggle the salt to Aesfrost. You'd imagine he'd want vengeance after Sorsley's execution, given how loyal he seems to be, but no. Booker simply vanishes from the face of the earth and the game forgets he even existed.

...But when you fight him, he's an absolute beast for some undiscernible reason! He's got a permanent supply of Benedict's Twofold Turn, which allows him to zoom around the battlefield dealing way too much damage to anyone he pleases, murdering your squishies before you can even say "go read a book." What's the big idea, game? Why am I more afraid of this bloke than the likes of Exharme and Dolphacula?

[vanguard333]

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Booker is so funny. He's the most throwaway, forgettable, no-character character with a face in the entire game. His personality, background and role in the story can all be described with two words: "Sorsley's assistant." There's absolutely nothing else to him. Heck, he doesn't even get a proper conclusion if you smuggle the salt to Aesfrost. You'd imagine he'd want vengeance after Sorsley's execution, given how loyal he seems to be, but no. Booker simply vanishes from the face of the earth and the game forgets he even existed.

Yeah; it was a bit strange that he simply disappeared. My best guess would be that he gets executed for his role in the illicit salt trade off-screen.

 

Anyway, I just got to chapter 15, and yeah; the capital should be completely undamaged since I picked Frederica's plan in chapter 13, and yet it's complete rubble in chapter 15. That doesn't make any sense.

Edited March 25, 2022 by vanguard333

[Dark Holy Elf]

Booker seems the type to cut his losses and run if Sorsley is executed, rather than the vengeance type. Agreed about him being randomly a combat badass. I have no problem with it, to be clear (I'm very much of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with a good fighter being just that, they don't need to be a great general or leader), but it's funny. 

[Saint Rubenio]

6 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Booker seems the type to cut his losses and run if Sorsley is executed, rather than the vengeance type.

On second thought... Yeah, I guess. He's slimy enough for it. Maybe? I dunno, man just doesn't get enough development.

Quote

Agreed about him being randomly a combat badass. I have no problem with it, to be clear (I'm very much of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with a good fighter being just that, they don't need to be a great general or leader), but it's funny. 

I do have a problem with it. He's bullying me and making me regret not helping his boss for real a second time.

Screw Exharme, I want the Bookman in my team.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Saint Rubenio

[vanguard333]

Funny story: as I said, I just got to chapter 15, and I got flooded with side-stories; I think something like 15 in total, and all of them, except for (spoilers below)

Spoiler

Sir Maxwell

Were for characters that I already have. Most of them were rather sweet, like Erador telling Serenoa about Serenoa's mother and Frederica trying & failing to make a meal to share with Serenoa. But one that stood out to me, was one between Erador and Hughette.

I suspected for a while, because the-loyal-subordinate-in-love a common trope these days, that Hughette had romantic feelings for Roland, and the side-story I just watched confirmed it. The thing that I find baffling about it though is that she mentions hoping for one moment where "they could forget their stations", as if that's the reason she hasn't said anything to Roland, even though Roland was never in line for the throne and he hated pretty much everything about being the backup prince, so why would their stations matter if Roland was looked at by the nobility as a needless spare to the throne?

 

Well, I just completed chapter 15, I chose to have Serenoa return to the Wolfort home, and after learning about what happened to Serenoa's mother, I now understand why Hughette thinks her and Roland's stations would get in the way.

Anyway, as for the more spoilery stuff about the chapter:

Spoiler

The reveal that Serenoa's dad isn't actually his birth-father, and that Serenoa is actually the eldest son of King Regna, strikes me as a bit... needless, I guess? Serenoa is already a prominent noble; I don't really see much need for a "secretly royalty" twist.

Speaking of Serenoa's dad, one thing I could not stand about this chapter's fight was that he has absolutely no sense of self-preservation whatsoever, charging right at the enemies no matter what. I suppose that's in character for lord Symon at that point in the story, but that didn't make the chapter any less annoying, especially since him dying during the fight means a game over, and no amount of using the teleportation quietus to get him away from enemies would stop him from completely ruining my strategies with his Leeroy Jenkins behaviour.

Upon returning to the capital, Serenoa learns about the Royalists' plot against Roland and about the salt crystal having come from the goddess statue in Hyzante and how the Roselle knew that there's salt crystals underground. So, the heroes know that there's salt underground, they know that Dragan was killed by Aesfrost, they know that Aesfrost is practically obsessed with the Grand Norzelian Mine; how have the heroes not realized that the mine's a salt mine?! This is starting to feel like the Tobi twist from Naruto; you want to shout at the screen, "He's Obito! Figure it out already!"

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by vanguard333

[Alastor15243]

The fact that this game has three different countries that all have very visually distinct soldiers just kinda hammers home just how much the lack of that bothers me in Three Houses.

[vanguard333]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

The fact that this game has three different countries that all have very visually distinct soldiers just kinda hammers home just how much the lack of that bothers me in Three Houses.

To be fair to Three Houses, the three nations were all originally once part of one empire and they've been deliberately kept technologically stagnant, so it does reflect the worldbuilding. But yeah, perhaps a bit more visual distinction would've been good.

[Alastor15243]

15 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

To be fair to Three Houses, the three nations were all originally once part of one empire and they've been deliberately kept technologically stagnant, so it does reflect the worldbuilding. But yeah, perhaps a bit more visual distinction would've been good.

I don't think that's an excuse at all.

 

We have examples in history of wars fought between groups that only very, very recently stopped considering themselves part of the same nation, and even then their soldiers' uniforms had more to differentiate them than color. At the time that Three Houses starts, the Leicester Alliance, the youngest of the three nations, is older than America is today. Technological stagnation could never justify three separate sovereign nations having identical military uniforms for that length of time.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Alastor15243

[vanguard333]

3 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't think that's an excuse at all.

We have examples in history of wars fought between groups that only very, very recently stopped considering themselves part of the same nation, and even then their soldiers' uniforms had more to differentiate them than color. At the time that Three Houses starts, the Leicester Alliance, the youngest of the three nations, is older than America is today. Technological stagnation could never justify three separate sovereign nations having identical military uniforms for that length of time.

Fair enough.

By the way, in chapter 15, did you have Serenoa stay in the capital, help the Rosellan village, or return to the Wolfort home?

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, vanguard333 said:

Fair enough.

By the way, in chapter 15, did you have Serenoa stay in the capital, help the Rosellan village, or return to the Wolfort home?

Help the Roselle. I stayed in the capital the second time around, and on my third run, where I'm aiming for the golden route, I'm going to return to Castle Wolffort.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Alastor15243

[vanguard333]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Help the Roselle. I stayed in the capital the second time around, and on my third run, where I'm aiming for the golden route, I'm going to return to Castle Wolfort.

I see. I had him return to castle wolfort. What are the battles in the other two versions like?

I'm glad the game has it that all three things happen and the player just decides where Serenoa goes, but I find it weird that you're basically deciding where everyone except Roland, Frederica and Benedict go. Why not split into three evenly-sized groups? Seems kind-of weird to me that Geela would accompany Serenoa if he doesn't go with Frederica, or that Hughette would go with Serenoa if he doesn't stay in the capital with Roland.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I see. I had him return to castle wolfort. What are the battles in the other two versions like?

The Roselle one is quite similar to the "Defend the Roselle" chapter, just with a different opponent, and the Capital one is a pretty intense battle in the streets of Glenbrook, surrounded on all sides by enemy forces.

[vanguard333]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

The Roselle one is quite similar to the "Defend the Roselle" chapter, just with a different opponent, and the Capital one is a pretty intense battle in the streets of Glenbrook, surrounded on all sides by enemy forces.

I see. The wolfort one is a pretty good fight in the great hall against assassins, but it is greatly hindered by having an NPC ally that the player has to keep alive or it's game over (and said ally has absolutely zero sense of self-preservation).

[Etrurian emperor]

I liked the fight where you stay in the capitol. It was a neat little map where you're surrounded on all sides and with plenty of water to play around with in terms of lightning magic.

Storywise I prefer the visit to chapter Wolffort. I think Patriatte is the main problem. If you stay in the capitol he decides to be a huge Iago who just does all manner of evil for the lulz and thus has to be put down. In the Wolffort chapter he's still evil but there are at least a reason for his actions, and he does have some valid points. He didn't just cause trouble in that stage because he needed to twirl his evil mustache. 

Staying in the capitol also doesn't reflect too well on Glenbrook's citizens. Rather than victims they come across as the most dishonest fair weather friends imaginable, and kinda ungrateful to boot. I'm not sure if its intentional for the citizens on one hand being stated to have been very contend under Aestfrost while on the other hand being jerks to Cordelia and ''Spoiler character'' for having been with Aesfrost during the war.