Gameplay Hopes and Expectations

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Maimishou said:

People already complain about the avatar characters. Giving Alear the same mechanics as Three Houses' Demonic Beast would only make that hatred for them worse since they'd be OP in a way other units wouldn't. Say what you will about IS, but I don't think they're dumb enough to do that. At least not before the final battle and even then I doubt it.

Giving them the exact same mechanics as monster units would risk making them overpowered, although avatar protagonists have a tendency to be a bit overpowered anyway, but that's one reason I said that I'm not hoping for Alear to get the exact same mechanics as the monsters; just that, like is the case with monster units, Alear's dragon form would be different enough in terms of gameplay to actually be a game-changer and not just another weapon type.

 

8 hours ago, PrincessAlyson said:

Oh, I would really love something like this. They probably won't, but I can hope! I definitely wanted a playable dragon or monster unit in 3H that utilized those mechanics, but alas, enemy only stuff. Having the player be able to do something like that would provide more strategic options.

Thank you. I do think giving them all the mechanics would potentially be overpowered (particularly barriers and multiple HP bars), but seeing a playable dragon unit that maybe takes up more than one tile, has some kind of Area-of-effect attack, etc., would be really cool.

 

13 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Now you're just getting my hopes up. I doubt dragon forms would be that complex, but it would be nice if they were fleshed out a bit more. I don't know if that would work if dragons are part of the secondary weapon relationship being theorized in the Japanese tweets thread though...

Yeah, I agree that it's really unlikely that they'll be that complex, but it would be great to see them get fleshed out more and be more than just another weapon type.

[Mysterique Sign]

Beast units. And bird people

[Metal Flash]

I think TearRing Saga had a cool idea for dragon units imo. They have low movement, but have an AoE attack to conpensate. Would need to have lower stats though, since TRS dragons had WAY to high defence, resistence and HP, making them nigh-unkillable, unless the enemy was another dragon or had dragon effective weapons (which were really rare if I recall correctly).

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

I think TearRing Saga had a cool idea for dragon units imo. They have low movement, but have an AoE attack to conpensate. Would need to have lower stats though, since TRS dragons had WAY to high defence, resistence and HP, making them nigh-unkillable, unless the enemy was another dragon or had dragon effective weapons (which were really rare if I recall correctly).

Ooh, interesting! I imagine copying the idea wholesale would get IS in trouble though.

...though this is kinda what they did for beast units in FE3H, now that I think about it. Hmm.

[Metal Flash]

6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Ooh, interesting! I imagine copying the idea wholesale would get IS in trouble though.

...though this is kinda what they did for beast units in FE3H, now that I think about it. Hmm.

True, it IS Kaga`s idea. Maybe combine it with FE3 dragons.

The main thing that separates TRS dragons from 3 Houses is that the dragons in the latter have very low movement.

[Fabulously Olivier]

So here's what I'm hoping for:

 

Good objective variety

Not all rout missions. A good spread of several objective types. And hopefully at least two Defense missions - one easier one at the beginning/middle and one tense one towards the endgame.

 

Little to no annoying enemy debuffs/position manipulation

Screw poison, lunge strike, trap staves, berserk staves, etc. Keep that shit out. None of it is fun to deal with.

 

Few to no stage gimmicks

Looking at you, Fates. Map design should be able to rely on its terrain, chokepoints, elevation differences, etc. alone. We don't need hidden bridge bombs, massive wind fans, massive corridor boltings, etc. unless WE are the ones using them.

 

Predictable incoming damage

A casual player should be able to approximate how much abuse their unit will take on enemy phase at a glance. Meaning, enemies pulling shit like dual strikes and critical hits is not fun.

 

Player phase styles are encouraged, enemy phase styles are not punished

Again, looking at you, Fates. If I want to play defensively, as in the GBA/GC-era, that should be a viable playstyle. Maybe I'll miss out on village items on occassion, and that's fine. What I should not have happen is my tank repositioned halfway across the map and poisoned to nothing.

 

No ambush spawns

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man!

[DefyingFates]

14 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

No ambush spawns

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man!

At the very least I'd like them to remove the "appear and attack immediately" thing from Maddening if Engage has that. I think Maddening would be far more enjoyable if they just tweaked that.

14 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Good objective variety

Not all rout missions. A good spread of several objective types. And hopefully at least two Defense missions - one easier one at the beginning/middle and one tense one towards the endgame.

From the twitter clips it looks like we're getting a Defend map early on, so that's a good sign, right?

[Armchair General]

48 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

From the twitter clips it looks like we're getting a Defend map early on, so that's a good sign, right?

Well, there's probably an few more maps where saving the green units might actually be an thing if the map in Alfred's reveal is anything to go by. As for the defense maps, it almost feels like it'll be something that's kind of rare; or at the very least, something that'll begin pop up halfway through the game.

[DefyingFates]

16 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Well, there's probably an few more maps where saving the green units might actually be an thing if the map in Alfred's reveal is anything to go by. As for the defense maps, it almost feels like it'll be something that's kind of rare; or at the very least, something that'll begin pop up halfway through the game.

Well, "protect" missions will also be fun ways to shake things up, so that's a good sign too 🙂

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm hoping for a lot of varied map designs. Considering the game mostly seems to take after Fateswakening that can really end up going both ways.

Fates had some fantastic map variety as long as you weren't playing Birthright, but Awakening only had routs. 

[vanguard333]

I hope that ally units can be controlled. It's always annoying when plans fall apart because of ally AI doing something dumb, and Three Houses' paralogues at least fixed the problem by having allies be controllable... only for main story missions to have ally units be uncontrollable and really dumb.

Varied map objectives would also be fun. Defense missions and arrive missions in particular would be fun to see return.

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

At the very least I'd like them to remove the "appear and attack immediately" thing from Maddening if Engage has that. I think Maddening would be far more enjoyable if they just tweaked that.

From the twitter clips it looks like we're getting a Defend map early on, so that's a good sign, right?

It is a good thing. I just also have 'nam flashbacks of the only "defense" oriented missions in Houses (last act of White Clouds, and Fodlan's Locket) actually being player-phase rout missions where a few enemies pretend to go after a defence point.

[Armchair General]

2 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

actually being player-phase rout missions where a few enemies pretend to go after a defence point.

What about Count Gloucester's "STAY OFFA MY LAWN!" paralogue? I just settled with camping and running after the thieves, in that one.

[Fabulously Olivier]

9 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

What about Count Gloucester's "STAY OFFA MY LAWN!" paralogue? I just settled with camping and running after the thieves, in that one.

Actually a good chapter, but I understand it can also be warp-cheesed pretty easily, because they just couldn't help themselves in including a weak boss alternate objective.

[Armchair General]

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

because they just couldn't help themselves in including a weak boss alternate objective

Hey, if Archeron was actually threatening, it would ruin the theme of that level.

[CompteSecours]

I hope they will playtest Hard mode and higher difficulties.

[Shadow Mir]

This prolly ain't gonna happen, but I want a hybrid class that DOESN'T suck. Three Houses and Fates both failed to deliver on that aspect. Miserably.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Shadow Mir

[whase]

In the twitter thread here there was a discussion on pairings, but I figured my two cents would fit better over here.

I just had an idea that sounds really cool to me. I doubt they'd ever do this, but that doesn't mean I can't hope for it.

What if, for available "S supports", the game would actually look at the choices you make throughout the game? As in character 1 will no longer be interested in S supporting you if you defeat that one optional boss. Or character 2 will become interested in S supporting you if you have a certain kill count. Or during a path split you're not going where character 3 wants you to go, so they lose interest in S supporting you. It sounds interesting to me, though the game would need to make it clear what those points of interest are.

(I will also give bonus points if supports change depending in your choices.)

[Metal Flash]

23 minutes ago, whase said:

What if, for available "S supports", the game would actually look at the choices you make throughout the game? As in character 1 will no longer be interested in S supporting you if you defeat that one optional boss. Or character 2 will become interested in S supporting you if you have a certain kill count. Or during a path split you're not going where character 3 wants you to go, so they lose interest in S supporting you. It sounds interesting to me, though the game would need to make it clear what those points of interest are

Interesting idea, my only potential worry is the conditions for locking/unlocking a S-support being too vague or too complicated. Still, definitely an idea I could get behind.

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, whase said:

(I will also give bonus points if supports change depending in your choices.)

Three Houses dabbled in this already with characters gaining or losing affinity based on dialogue choices (as well as having big decisions that lock off certain characters from joining the party), so it'd be cool to see more like that! My inner completionist would weep though, I have to say that upfront xD

Also, as Metal said, you'd probably need the consequences of your actions to be really easy to spot lest fans cry foul of being cheated.

P.S. Speaking of S Supports, I hope we don't get another Rhea situation where she's only romanceable in one route despite being physically present for another too. My brother tried to romance her in VW and had to settle for Sothis, so I have some second-hand experience in that regard 😛

[vanguard333]

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

This prolly ain't gonna happen, but I want a hybrid class that DOESN'T suck. Three Houses and Fates both failed to deliver on that aspect. Miserably.

Enlightened One was alright as a hybrid class. Not great, but it was decent. Since it was a hybrid of swords, gauntlets and white magic, and Byleth only learns one offensive light magic spell, the white magic was mainly for healing while swords and gauntlets were for dealing damage, and since the class had swordfaire while also being magical, it was a good class for using a 1-3 range levin sword+.

 

1 hour ago, Metal Flash said:

Interesting idea, my only potential worry is the conditions for locking/unlocking a S-support being too vague or too complicated. Still, definitely an idea I could get behind.

Agreed; it sounds like a neat idea, but it sounds like it can get really overcomplicated.

One way I can think of to make it a bit less complicated would be to have this be for certain units, kind-of like how Path of Radiance handled it being possible for Jill to leave: it was only possible in the case of Jill, it was for important story reasons so it was extremely heavily foreshadowed that it could happen, and there was even a way to bring her back to the player's side if Jill had an a-support with Mist or Lethe.

 

22 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

P.S. Speaking of S Supports, I hope we don't get another Rhea situation where she's only romanceable in one route despite being physically present for another too. My brother tried to romance her in VW and had to settle for Sothis, so I have some second-hand experience in that regard 😛

A straightforward solution to this would be for the game to not have multiple story routes. Do we really need another multiple-route FE game after Three Houses and Fates almost back-to-back?

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Enlightened One was alright as a hybrid class. Not great, but it was decent. Since it was a hybrid of swords, gauntlets and white magic, and Byleth only learns one offensive light magic spell, the white magic was mainly for healing while swords and gauntlets were for dealing damage, and since the class had swordfaire while also being magical, it was a good class for using a 1-3 range levin sword+.

I would agree, but I would also consider it concerning that the only hybrids that worked in recent memory were avatar exclusive (or semi-exclusive in the case of Awakening and Fates) classes. Mortal Savant, on the other hand... didn't. Aside from Three Hopes, that is.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Shadow Mir

[whase]

I think the point of hybrid classes is to be more versatile in damage output. Being able to choose between targeting defense and resistance is a pretty good boon te have... in theory. One of the problems I have found with hybrid classes is that growths/stats don't change all that much between classes, and a hybrid class makes sacrifices to be more versatile, whereas a strength class can still just pick up a levin sword without any sacrifices.

At least that's my point of view, maybe they should make inverted stat weapons less available?

[Shadow Mir]

29 minutes ago, whase said:

I think the point of hybrid classes is to be more versatile in damage output. Being able to choose between targeting defense and resistance is a pretty good boon te have... in theory. One of the problems I have found with hybrid classes is that growths/stats don't change all that much between classes, and a hybrid class makes sacrifices to be more versatile, whereas a strength class can still just pick up a levin sword without any sacrifices.

At least that's my point of view, maybe they should make inverted stat weapons less available?

Exactly. It doesn't help that many, many units do not have the stat spread to support being a hybrid attacker. And of the handful that do, they tend to fall under Master of None. Look at competitive Pokemon. Most offensive Pokemon are built either full physical or full special, even with the likes of Infernape, who theoretically have the stat spread to go mixed. And while you say that someone in a physical class can just use a levin sword, that, too, is pretty much fruitless unless you're, say, Sakura or something.

[DaveCozy]

How does everyone feel about the low movement values we've seen so far?

Going off the most recent and latest character trailers:

• every grounded infantry unit we have seen so far has 4-move; Etie, Louis, Celine, Framme, Cramme and Alear.
  • Effectively, that also means Armors and magical classes are the only ones we've seen so far who haven't had their movement reduced, thus being on par with rest of the grounded classes we've seen so far.
  • While I can see the sense of making ranged classes have 4-move (along with armors cuz it's an FE trait), the one I'm more surprised about is Alear's dragon class being also 4-move, since it's a melee combat class.
• mounted units (whether on Horse or Pegasus) so far have also only been shown with 6-move; Vander, Alfred and Cloe.
• Only way so far to increase movement seems to be through Rings; Sigurd being the only one shown to increase move+1.
  • Though it wouldn't be a far off guess to assume that consumables like boots or shoes of the wind, and equipment like the march ring, could come back as well.

This is for classes seen so far as well, so it's still TBD but movement seems to have been reduced as a whole compared to previous entries.

Personally I'm hoping this means that map sizes will be smaller than previous entries, which have gotten pretty carried away with size in my opinion.

--

In regards to hybrid classes, we really haven't gotten any that stand out if you ask me. The best ones like Enlightened One and Grandmaster were just passably good, and could still be outclassed by just focusing on doing one of those two things better. In general I've found hybrid classes and roles are best moreso in the early games, where stats are low enough that you can viably pick to do one thing or the other (like Tactician in Awakening).

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen with Celine either in Engage.

Edited November 10, 2022 by DaveCozy