objective What is your favourite map objective ?

[lenticular]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're saying kill every enemy except the boss? Have they ever done that? I could see it as a particularly unique recruitment method for a Douglas like character.

Three Houses chapter 6. Beat the Death Knight or rout everyone else. But you're right, it could make for a fun and unique recruitment condition. I'd like to see that. It could even be used for a "pick one" Arran/Samson style recruitment, where you get a different unit depending on how you complete the level.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, lenticular said:

Three Houses chapter 6. Beat the Death Knight or rout everyone else. But you're right, it could make for a fun and unique recruitment condition. I'd like to see that. It could even be used for a "pick one" Arran/Samson style recruitment, where you get a different unit depending on how you complete the level.

Ah, of course. We're not actually meant to kill Mr Dark Spikes fodder.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

How often has the series done multiple Kill Bosses as a goal? I think Grondor revisited might be that in Three Houses, but otherwise I'm drawing a blank.

 

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

It comes up at least one other time in Three Houses, in non-CF chapter 16, where you have to defeat Ladislava, Acheron, Ferdinand and Lorenz

Off the top of my head, it comes up in:

• Non-CF Myrrdin and AM/VW Gronder 2, as mentioned
• CF Chapter 12 (Gilbert, Seteth, Flayn, Rhea)
• CF monastery defence (Shamir, Alois, Seteth, Flayn)
• CF Arianrhod (Ingrid, Felix, Gwendal, Rodrigue, Cornelia)
• CF Tailtean (Sylvain, Mercedes, Dedue, Dimitri, Rhea)
• VW/SS Enbarr City (Hubert, Jeritza)
• Rhea's paralogue (some specified generics)
• Kinda-sorta Chapter 10 (Kronya, then Solon)
• Kinda-sorta non-CF Chapter 13 (Pallardo's double, then Pallardo)

I feel like I'm forgetting at least one.

It also shows up in Fates, e.g. in Conquest 18, you must defeat both Zola and the paired Generals guarding the prisoners. Pretty sure it occurred in at least one other map, too, but I'm blanking on which.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

Off the top of my head, it comes up in:

• Non-CF Myrrdin and AM/VW Gronder 2, as mentioned
• CF Chapter 12 (Gilbert, Seteth, Flayn, Rhea)
• CF monastery defence (Shamir, Alois, Seteth, Flayn)
• CF Arianrhod (Ingrid, Felix, Gwendal, Rodrigue, Cornelia)
• CF Tailtean (Sylvain, Mercedes, Dedue, Dimitri, Rhea)
• VW/SS Enbarr City (Hubert, Jeritza)
• Rhea's paralogue (some specified generics)
• Kinda-sorta Chapter 10 (Kronya, then Solon)
• Kinda-sorta non-CF Chapter 13 (Pallardo's double, then Pallardo)

I feel like I'm forgetting at least one.

It also shows up in Fates, e.g. in Conquest 18, you must defeat both Zola and the paired Generals guarding the prisoners. Pretty sure it occurred in at least one other map, too, but I'm blanking on which.

So pretty common in Three Houses though kind of non existent in the prior games (outside of cases like the Kronya Solon one for, say, the Black Knight and that other random dude before him in Path of Radiance).

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Route because Loot and exp.

Every map objective is enhanced with a turn limit.

[Eltosian Kadath]

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

It also shows up in Fates, e.g. in Conquest 18, you must defeat both Zola and the paired Generals guarding the prisoners. Pretty sure it occurred in at least one other map, too, but I'm blanking on which.

Revelation chapter 6 is another, as you have to kill both the Nohrian and Hoshidan commander. It is also basically the objective of Revelation Endgame as well, as you each part of Anankos has to be killed, and each is a separate boss.

Conquest's chapter 6 probably also should count, although there is a little more ambiguity. I can also see an argument for FE7's Light part 1 counting, as you have to kill all the Morph bosses to reach Nergal. If we are counting Hunting by Daybreak, then Path of Radiance's Hard/Maniac Endgame would count as well. The multi-seize maps are also kinda similar, AKA all of Genealogy of the Holy War, Thracia 776 Endgame, Binding Blade chapter 24, FE7 Hector mode chapter Chapter 25.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

To anyone that voted or thought about voting for Defend: What Defend maps have you enjoyed in Fire Emblem? Because every one I can think of I just realize "oh that's a Survive map. We're not defending a point". Maybe folks are interpreting Defend as "Protect Green Unit", which is a whole different ballgame. My issue with most defend maps is that they're usually a Rout map that happens to have a time limit. Here's one that I always like, Path of Radiance Chapter 8. I like looking at the tools I have and decide how we're splitting up the team. Ike can solo the south with his regal sword, but the other directions are genuinely tough to survive and Titania can't be in both places at once. Plus you've gotta find time to get Ike over to Illyana to recruit her. There's a lot of active decision making and you probably won't rout every single unit by the end, especially on hard mode.

Maybe most Defend maps are lame because of the lack of difficulty. But deliberately making maps hard where the enemy comes to you carries a greater risk of a soft lock save file than a generic rout map where the player goes at his own pace. If only there was a Defend map where the enemies busting down your doors were noticeably easier than the ones hanging back. Just a flood of enemies whose quantity you never have to deal with in a normal map, but unlike a normal map, you're the one that gets to play with fortress tiles and ballistae. A defend map that had reasons to go out of your defensive line, but the enemy generals waiting for you are outrageously tough to deal with - probably not worth the reward, thus demonstrating to the player how to weigh risks against rewards in future maps like this. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[sleepy.]

On 9/26/2022 at 10:16 AM, Imuabicus said:

Every map objective is enhanced with a turn limit.

This.

Incentivizing riskier play makes maps more fun: turn limit + villages + tough mobs that drop good items = not turtling

[whase]

7 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

To anyone that voted or thought about voting for Defend: What Defend maps have you enjoyed in Fire Emblem?

A few maps come to mind;
- FE7 that chapter in early Hector mode where you defend against the assassins. Mostly fun because it's a change of pace.
- FE9 that chapter where you defend the Greil merc base. I just love that feeling of defending your home, then slowly breaking through the ranks to have Ike take out the boss.
- FE10 chapter 3-13, yeah I actually like this one. You get a bunch of balistea, Micaiah gets a seige tome and a physic staff for strategic support, you get to (sort of) control a larger army. It may be slow and the AI is stupid, but I really like trying new strategies here. (Plus Fiona's only use; strategically dropping yellow soldiers into the fight.)

[Samz707]

7 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

To anyone that voted or thought about voting for Defend: What Defend maps have you enjoyed in Fire Emblem? Because every one I can think of I just realize "oh that's a Survive map. We're not defending a point". Maybe folks are interpreting Defend as "Protect Green Unit", which is a whole different ballgame. My issue with most defend maps is that they're usually a Rout map that happens to have a time limit. Here's one that I always like, Path of Radiance Chapter 8. I like looking at the tools I have and decide how we're splitting up the team. Ike can solo the south with his regal sword, but the other directions are genuinely tough to survive and Titania can't be in both places at once. Plus you've gotta find time to get Ike over to Illyana to recruit her. There's a lot of active decision making and you probably won't rout every single unit by the end, especially on hard mode.

Maybe most Defend maps are lame because of the lack of difficulty. But deliberately making maps hard where the enemy comes to you carries a greater risk of a soft lock save file than a generic rout map where the player goes at his own pace. If only there was a Defend map where the enemies busting down your doors were noticeably easier than the ones hanging back. Just a flood of enemies whose quantity you never have to deal with in a normal map, but unlike a normal map, you're the one that gets to play with fortress tiles and ballistae. A defend map that had reasons to go out of your defensive line, but the enemy generals waiting for you are outrageously tough to deal with - probably not worth the reward, thus demonstrating to the player how to weigh risks against rewards in future maps like this. 

I enjoyed the FE7 ones and I loved the mix of Defend/Route you had in Edelgard's paralogue in CF.

[Jotari]

Are we really talking about defend chapters and not mentioning the most lauded defense chapter in the series? Conquest Chapter 10? I don't even really like Co quest all that much and I still have to admit it's a great chapter.

Jumping off that point it kind of looks like the best defend chapters are the ones placed earlier in the game. Where the game knows exactly what resources you have. Even 3-13 despite being quite later into the game works in that paradise due to the army split and the under levelled nature of the Dawn Brigade. It's hard to make a defend chapter that can be generally applied to any party set up, but when you know roughly what units the player is going to field then you can give specific roles. I think Radiant Dawn's part 2 end game would be really liked in this regard if it werent for the fact that Elincia can just fly up and delete Ludveck.

Another one not mentioned that I think is pretty good is Thracia's defense of Tara (can't remember exact chapter number). I think that pulls the "powerful enemies on the rear line aspect well". And because it's Thracia there's still motivation for particularly skilled players to go after those bosses.

[Samz707]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:12 PM, Jotari said:

Are we really talking about defend chapters and not mentioning the most lauded defense chapter in the series? Conquest Chapter 10? I don't even really like Co quest all that much and I still have to admit it's a great chapter.

Jumping off that point it kind of looks like the best defend chapters are the ones placed earlier in the game. Where the game knows exactly what resources you have. Even 3-13 despite being quite later into the game works in that paradise due to the army split and the under levelled nature of the Dawn Brigade. It's hard to make a defend chapter that can be generally applied to any party set up, but when you know roughly what units the player is going to field then you can give specific roles. I think Radiant Dawn's part 2 end game would be really liked in this regard if it werent for the fact that Elincia can just fly up and delete Ludveck.

Another one not mentioned that I think is pretty good is Thracia's defense of Tara (can't remember exact chapter number). I think that pulls the "powerful enemies on the rear line aspect well". And because it's Thracia there's still motivation for particularly skilled players to go after those bosses.

Didnt play it.

Edelgard's paralogue is a pretty late unlock but I think it still manages to be well designed with you having to defend and attack at the same time.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 9/27/2022 at 11:39 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

But deliberately making maps hard where the enemy comes to you carries a greater risk of a soft lock save file than a generic rout map where the player goes at his own pace.

I'm not sure this is true. A number of hard defend maps can be won just by timing them out, so sometimes you can find ways to scramble just to stall which allow even a weak team to escape a softlock. Having that option between defence and offence, and both of them being valid, is part of what makes these maps compelling I think. And I wouldn't say they're particularly easier than other map types on average.

Anyway I like most defend maps myself, as long as there's some pressure (e.g. Radiant Dawn 3-7, i.e. the Ike river map, could be considered a "defend" map but it sucks because there's no pressure). PoR Chapter 8; Blazing Blade's early Hector mode map, pirate ship, and the one where you protect Nils; Sacred Stone's Last Hope; RD's 2-Endgame and 3-13; Conquest's Chapter 10; 3H's Lorenz and Edelgard paralogues along with the CF monstery defence. Some of these maps can be cheaped out by rushing the boss but that's true of any Defeat Boss map type, and I don't usually play that way anyway.

[PsychoLogical]

It's Defeat Boss. Simple and easy. 

Ironically tho, I basically treat everything as "rout" instead despite not needing to.