Anyone notice the large numbers of siblings in this game?

[Emobot7]

Anyone else noticed the large and somewhat suspicious numbers of siblings in Engage? In particular, we got a lot of pairs of siblings, for example, we already know that there at least 5 of them with the 4 lords pairs + Clanne and Framme but we might have even more as Pandreo/Pandoro and Panette/Panetonne look quite likely to be related as their eyes and hairs colours are similar and even their name are similar. Other than that, I think maybe Jade and Amber are related as they have similar hairs colours as well but its already harder to say at this point. Of course, there is also the possibility that we might have even more siblings who just don't look alike.

So yeah, it feel like there are going to be a lot more siblings in this game than in a lots of other fire emblem games. And of course there lots of sibling in Fate but those were larger group of siblings all related together instead of multipe pair of two.

Anyway, here another thought, I think would be weird if the fact we had so many pairs of siblings was random, especially considering one of the Emblem is Eirika who has a single sibling in Ephraim. I mean, there has already been some info hinting to Eirika Emblem Ring being shared with Ephraim, so I'm really curious to see if there some mechanic regarding her ring and characters who share a sibling like her.

For example, lets say Framme is equiped with Eirika Emblem Ring in a battle and Clanne is also part of your team, do you think its possible he could be given some kind of direct or indirect bonus? I mean, maybe it be a bit too complex and specific to do but I think that would be really interesting to see. 

At the very least, I'm pretty sure relationship between siblings is most likely going to be a big theme for characters interaction in Engage. 

[LoneStar]

1 minute ago, Emobot7 said:

Pandreo/Pandoro and Panette/Panetonne look quite likely to be related as their eyes and hairs colours are similar and even their name are similar.

I think they are confirmed to be siblings. Another strange thing is that Merrin and Bunnet look pretty similar as well, but having there be double sibling retainers is pretty out there.

The siblings having some sort of bonus if one of them is using the Eirika/Ephraim ring would be interesting. So far I've just seen Eirika grant Luna and Ephraim grant Sol to who ever is using them.

[Hrothgar777]

I haven't played through enough FE games to compare them, so I'm going to have to take your word for it. It probably has some narrative reason, such as with Fates, but also gameplay implications.

 

From a pure gameplay standpoint, siblings have traditionally been a drawback to freedom of choice. Most notably, in games with a children mechanic, as they lower the number of 1st generation unit pair combinations that can influence the attributes of 2nd generation units. Otherwise I don't know if lovers have uniquely high support bonuses that other units can't attain.

But obviously it doesn't have to be all negative in principle. For example, in the FE game idea fic I wrote, there is a "recessive inheritance" feature. I coincidentally didn't write any female archers, but one female unit had a brother who was an archer. So her descendant had a 1/4th chance of inheriting certain attributes (such as automatically having high archer stats and access to archer classes) from him as opposed to her.

[Mysterique Sign]

Actually there are a lot of siblings in Fire Emblem games (and yes, Pandreo and Panette are siblings). Fodlan is the odd one out for having so few.

• 1, 2, 3/11, 12, 15: Marth and Elice, Lena and Mathhis, Palla, Catria and Est, Michalis, Minerva and Maria, Jubelo and Yuliya, Celica and Conrad, Clive and Clair, Luthier and Delthea
• 4, 5: Sigurd and Ethlyn, Edain and Brigid, Seliph and Julia, Leif and Altena, Lana/Muirne and Lester/Deimne,  Larcei/Creidne and Scáthach/Dalvin, Diarmuid/Tristan and Nanna/Jeanne, Fee/Hermina and Ced/Hawk, Arthur/Amid and Tine/Linda, Iuchar and Iucharba, Patty/Daisy and Febail/Asaello (and kind of Mareeta), Lene/Laylea and Coirpre/Charlot, Safy and Tina, Deen and Eda
• 6, 7: Bors and Gwendolyn, Shanna, Thea and Juno, Lugh and Raigh, Clarine and Klein, Geese and Geitz, Melady and Zeiss, Karel and Karla, Florina, Fiora and Farina, Nils and Ninian, Rebecca and Dart, Priscilla and Raven
• 8: Eirika and Ephraim, Tana and Innes, Franz and Ford, Vanessa and Syrene, Tethys and Ewan, Cormag and Glen
• 9, 10: Ike and Mist, Sanaki and Micaiah, Oscar, Boyd and Rolf, Marcia and Makalov, Lethe and Lyre, Rayson, Leanne and Rafiel, Lucia and Geoffrey
• 13: Chrom, Lissa and Emmeryn, Say'ri and Yen'fay
• 14: Xander, Camilla, Leo and Elise, Ryoma, Hinoka, Takumi and Sakura, Corrin and Lilith (Corrin and Azura are also step/adopted siblings to those first 8), Felicia and Flora, Sazo and Kaze
• 16, 3 Hopes: Holst and Hilda
• Heroes: Alfonse and Sharena, Bruno and Veronica, Hrid, Gunnthra, Fjorm and Ylgr, Laegjarn and Laevatein, Freyr and Freyja, Peony and Triandra, Reginn, Otr and Fafnir

And that's only including playable characters.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Mysterique Sign

[Crubat]

Making me hope there's definitely no shipping between characters now..

[Azz]

Personally I don't mind there being a lot of siblings. It creates pre-established relationships that can easily be built upon solely based on the fact that they are siblings. Same with the lord-retainer relationship, which I certainly would like less of but still, quite an easy way to have interesting dynamics already established and show that the characters have history with one another.

I think if any relationship thus far is interesting is that Citrinne is a cousin of Diamant and Alcryst, which we've rarely see.

Also, big agree with Crubat, I hope this implies less romance is gonna occur/the game wont be as 'ship everyone with everyone!'

[Metal Flash]

I hope so too, but after Fates I have little hope that being siblings will stop S-supports/them marrying each other.

I also hope that the sibling pairs won`t feel too similar to one another. Having parallels is fine, copying entire dynamics wholesale is what I wanna avoid. 

I am curious to see how Citrinne being a cousin to Diamant and Alcryst will effect their relationship dynamic.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Metal Flash

[Ziegenpeter]

This will totally not lead to creepy situations. Yep, yep.

[Emobot7]

14 hours ago, LoneStar said:

I think they are confirmed to be siblings. Another strange thing is that Merrin and Bunnet look pretty similar as well, but having there be double sibling retainers is pretty out there.

The siblings having some sort of bonus if one of them is using the Eirika/Ephraim ring would be interesting. So far I've just seen Eirika grant Luna and Ephraim grant Sol to who ever is using them.

Had no idea they were confirmed as sibling already. Didn't realize Merrin and Bunnet were so similar either, could very well be related in some manner. Maybe in Solm, its tradition for two major clans (or two noble houses) to serve the royal family so Panette and Pandreo could be part of one and Merrin and Bunnet could be part of the other?
 

5 hours ago, Mysterique Sign said:

Actually there are a lot of siblings in Fire Emblem games (and yes, Pandreo and Panette are siblings). Fodlan is the odd one out for having so few.

• 1, 2, 3/11, 12, 15: Marth and Elice, Lena and Mathhis, Palla, Catria and Est, Michalis, Minerva and Maria, Jubelo and Yuliya, Celica and Conrad, Clive and Clair, Luthier and Delthea
• 4, 5: Sigurd and Ethlyn, Edain and Brigid, Seliph and Julia, Leif and Altena, Lana/Muirne and Lester/Deimne,  Larcei/Creidne and Scáthach/Dalvin, Diarmuid/Tristan and Nanna/Jeanne, Fee/Hermina and Ced/Hawk, Arthur/Amid and Tine/Linda, Iuchar and Iucharba, Patty/Daisy and Febail/Asaello (and kind of Mareeta), Lene/Laylea and Coirpre/Charlot, Safy and Tina, Deen and Eda
• 6, 7: Bors and Gwendolyn, Shanna, Thea and Juno, Lugh and Raigh, Clarine and Klein, Geese and Geitz, Melady and Zeiss, Karel and Karla, Florina, Fiora and Farina, Nils and Ninian, Rebecca and Dart, Priscilla and Raven
• 8: Eirika and Ephraim, Tana and Innes, Franz and Ford, Vanessa and Syrene, Tethys and Ewan, Cormag and Glen
• 9, 10: Ike and Mist, Sanaki and Micaiah, Oscar, Boyd and Rolf, Marcia and Makalov, Lethe and Lyre, Rayson, Leanne and Rafiel, Lucia and Geoffrey
• 13: Chrom, Lissa and Emmeryn, Say'ri and Yen'fay
• 14: Xander, Camilla, Leo and Elise, Ryoma, Hinoka, Takumi and Sakura, Corrin and Lilith (Corrin and Azura are also step/adopted siblings to those first 8), Felicia and Flora, Sazo and Kaze
• 16, 3 Hopes: Holst and Hilda
• Heroes: Alfonse and Sharena, Bruno and Veronica, Hrid, Gunnthra, Fjorm and Ylgr, Laegjarn and Laevatein, Freyr and Freyja, Peony and Triandra, Reginn, Otr and Fafnir

And that's only including playable characters.

Good point, I had forgotten a lot of those family tie from older game. Guess what I mean by suspicious numbers is that compared to recent games, there a lot more. Fates has a lot of them of course but since a most of them are all related together, that make only 4 group of siblings technically. So yeah, it felt like a return to the root in a way to have so many different siblings groups.

As for S supports between sibling, I'm not too worried about it, Fates had some with Corrin because they were the player avatar and because Robin in the previous game could S support all character from the other gender, I understand why they felt like it had to be true for Corrin too, creepy as it is. But that was it as far as I know. If Alear end up having a sibling though, there is a serious risk that they might be able to S support them though...

It also make a lot of sense to have less S or A supports between characters in Engage because interaction between the characters and the Emblems are gonna demand even more time and work from the writting team. So having characters being siblings and related give them a good excuse to have a bit less supports.

As for Citrinne, I didn't know about her being cousin to Diamant and Alcryst but somehow, I don't think that would stop them from having romantic interaction though. I mean, cousin marriage was relatively common in the middle age and if they can get away with something, I expect them to do it. 😅

Edited December 12, 2022 by Emobot7

[Fabulously Olivier]

The siblings are whatever. The retainers are a bigger problem, and the heavy concentration of siblings also more importantly compounds the concentration of retainers.

 

Three Houses would have been a good example to follow. One retainer per lord gets the job done and leaves a lot of room for other characters of diverse background. Hell, two retainers per crown lord and one per younger lord would have left enough room.

[Etrurian emperor]

7 hours ago, Mysterique Sign said:

Fodlan is the odd one out for having so few.

Fodlan has a decent amount of siblings. Just not playable ones. Ashe, Rapheal, Ignatz, Felix, Ingrid, Claude, Sylvain etc all have siblings. We just don't see them or they're a minor boss in Miklan's case. 

[Emobot7]

21 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Three Houses would have been a good example to follow. One retainer per lord gets the job done and leaves a lot of room for other characters of diverse background.

Retainer statut isn't a proof of lack of diversity though. I mean, just taking Three Houses as an example, I'm guessing you are talking about Hubert, Dedue and Hilda, well, those three are all retainer yet, they couldn't be more different from one another. Also, technically speaking, the rest of the class members in Three Houses are still vassals to the respective lords of their class. They just have their own backstories and more complicated motivations than just serving their lords faithfully.

In other words, I don't see their retainers statut as something that would obligatory mean they lack diversity. They just need to have their own backstories, personalities and motivations.

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Emobot7 said:

Retainer statut isn't a proof of lack of diversity though. I mean, just taking Three Houses as an example, I'm guessing you are talking about Hubert, Dedue and Hilda, well, those three are all retainer yet, they couldn't be more different from one another. Also, technically speaking, the rest of the class members in Three Houses are still vassals to the respective lords of their class. They just have their own backstories and more complicated motivations than just serving their lords faithfully.

In other words, I don't see their retainers statut as something that would obligatory mean they lack diversity. They just need to have their own backstories, personalities and motivations.

 

Being a retainer is effectively a pre-written part of one's backstory though. It's a profession. Imagine an FE where half of the cast are randomly accountants, or lawyers. It would feel stale regardless of how many different personalities are involved.

[Emobot7]

9 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Being a retainer is effectively a pre-written part of one's backstory though. It's a profession. Imagine an FE where half of the cast are randomly accountants, or lawyers. It would feel stale regardless of how many different personalities are involved.

Well, I get your point but what I'm hoping is that at least, the characters end up being different kind of retainer, like, some of them might have been prepared all their live to be a retainer while other might have just become one because they demonstrated their prowess and impressed their lord. I also hope that the world building is strong enough to give character distinct setting despite them sharing the same profession as you said. Hopefully, being a retainer for a Firene lord will be a completely different experience from a Elusian retainer and similar stuff like that. 

[Dandy Druid]

On 12/11/2022 at 4:07 PM, LoneStar said:

I think they are confirmed to be siblings. Another strange thing is that Merrin and Bunnet look pretty similar as well, but having there be double sibling retainers is pretty out there.

FE isn't really known for being subtle, so I wouldn't put it past. They have a high chance of being related somehow. But maybe they're more estranged than the other siblings.

On 12/12/2022 at 6:20 AM, Emobot7 said:

As for Citrinne, I didn't know about her being cousin to Diamant and Alcryst but somehow, I don't think that would stop them from having romantic interaction though. I mean, cousin marriage was relatively common in the middle age and if they can get away with something, I expect them to do it. 😅

IIRC Owain and Lucina's S support was platonic, which gives me hope that they might be platonic. But they could always change their minds.

On 12/12/2022 at 7:58 AM, Fabulously Olivier said:

The siblings are whatever. The retainers are a bigger problem, and the heavy concentration of siblings also more importantly compounds the concentration of retainers.

 

Three Houses would have been a good example to follow. One retainer per lord gets the job done and leaves a lot of room for other characters of diverse background. Hell, two retainers per crown lord and one per younger lord would have left enough room.

I have to agree with you here. None of the playable characters revealed so far come from a mercenary band we met along the way. Yunaka and Seadall seem like the only characters that we sort of "picked up" along the way. Out of the 32 seemingly playable character, our army makeup is:

- 9 royals

- 19 retainers (I'm counting Vander, Framme, and Clanne as Alear's retainers)

- 2 commoners (Seadall and Yunaka)

- 2 unknown status (I'll put who I think counts as this. One is someone we've seen in trailers and the other I'm assuming is playable.)

Spoiler

• Mauve(?) is one of the Hounds. Not sure if they count as a mercenary group or not. I don't know Mauve's social status either.
• Veyre (she hasn't been seen as playable, but she seems important. Hoping she's not playable and turns out to be the big bad. That would actually be interesting).

19 retainers is overkill though. I get that they will all have unique backstories and some will probably come from the bottom and scratched their way to the top, but they all share an occupation and core values at the end of the day. There's no noble that may have their own ideas and agenda, like Ferdinand. There's no farmer that had to pick up a weapon to defend their home (like Brom). There's no local clergy that took to the frontlines because they're on a mission or they're trying to aid the war effort (like Claud). People that are already retainers have already had character development we didn't get to see. Their occupation may not change after the war.

[szechuan]

On 12/22/2022 at 1:17 AM, Dandy Druid said:

19 retainers is overkill though. I get that they will all have unique backstories and some will probably come from the bottom and scratched their way to the top, but they all share an occupation and core values at the end of the day. There's no noble that may have their own ideas and agenda, like Ferdinand. There's no farmer that had to pick up a weapon to defend their home (like Brom). There's no local clergy that took to the frontlines because they're on a mission or they're trying to aid the war effort (like Claud). People that are already retainers have already had character development we didn't get to see. Their occupation may not change after the war.

I think retainers this time are kind of a blank slate, just as in Fates. Sure, they are tasked with "protecting" a certain royal, but their personality doesn't revolve around it unlike Dedue's or Frederick. We've seen some of them being chefs, others being creepy dudes, another one is from Elyos!Japan... so plenty of different backgrounds and personalities. And I hardly doubt they are especially concerned with their leige, like I can't really remember how important it was that Arthur was Elise's retainer or not. It's just better for marketing purposes I guess.

[Acacia Sgt]

On 12/21/2022 at 4:17 PM, Dandy Druid said:

IIRC Owain and Lucina's S support was platonic, which gives me hope that they might be platonic. But they could always change their minds.

Not in the Japanese version, however.

[Dandy Druid]

13 hours ago, szechuan said:

I think retainers this time are kind of a blank slate, just as in Fates. Sure, they are tasked with "protecting" a certain royal, but their personality doesn't revolve around it unlike Dedue's or Frederick. We've seen some of them being chefs, others being creepy dudes, another one is from Elyos!Japan... so plenty of different backgrounds and personalities. And I hardly doubt they are especially concerned with their leige, like I can't really remember how important it was that Arthur was Elise's retainer or not. It's just better for marketing purposes I guess.

Personalities may differ but power dynamics do not. And those dynamics definitely affect how characters approach each other, unless the writers completely ignore that... which is possible. I'm going to have to wait until the game comes out though to see for sure. Hopefully the supports aren't too formulaic. I'm worried supports might devolve into:

Royal x Retainer

C = retainer and royal reminisce on how they came into service.

B = retainer gets into a problem, and the royal scolds them for not telling them

A = have a boring heart-to-heart with the retainer reaffirming their loyalty to their royal.

[Solaris998]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:13 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Fodlan has a decent amount of siblings. Just not playable ones. Ashe, Rapheal, Ignatz, Felix, Ingrid, Claude, Sylvain etc all have siblings. We just don't see them or they're a minor boss in Miklan's case. 

I like how everyone has forgotten the obvious Mercedes and Jeritza-

[Kliss88]

Corrin and Azura are cousins and you can S rank them. 

 

There was one sibling pair that was left out of the group from FE4 and that was Claud and Sylvia. You can certainly pair them up and the game kinda encourages it but they are absolutely brother and sister 

[Corrobin]

So, one thing on the retainers bit: I did remember seeing a thing stating that Louis was Celine's gardener, and Bunet is a cook, and Pandreo is a priest in addition to a retainer. So, at the very least, that adds some depth to their duties/relationships. They're a retainer and they also X.

[Emobot7]

15 hours ago, Corrobin said:

Louis was Celine's gardener

Hey, if thats true, that make Louis an even greater character in my book. 😁

But yeah, if retainers have a second job they practice while being their lord retainer or that led to them becoming retainer to their lord, I personally think it does add a little something to the characters.

I will concede though that we propably could have gotten way less retainer and more neutral characters like Yunaka, Jean and Anna for example. 

I just want to say that the reason they are making most of them retainer is propably to make it easier to have them interact together from a scenario point of view. I mean, you don't need to do any first meeting among characters from the same factions, you can start off certain supports with characters knowing each other personality and this will also explain why retainers who are used to spending times in the presence their lord won't have any problem speaking with nobles from another faction.

Some will say its a lazy plot device to skip some potential interaction and to make character join you faster. I personally think it will depend on how it is used.

[Crubat]

I don't know if anyone noticed but I think the lord-retainer sharing a crit quote from fates is coming back again, Chloe says "It's teatime!" similarly to Celine.