All DLC Emblems have been revealed.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, WindSentinel said:

I'm a tad excited for them still-bitter that a few cool things/classes (and MAYBE explanations) are behind a paywall, not too hooked on the angle I'm seeing as it's been done a lot in FE DLCs now, but if they at least round out the worldbuilding with Nel and her brother/friend? and (spoilers):

  Hide contents

Execute the good four hounds in a compelling way, especially since the odds are against them considering the evil versions of each kingdom...

Then I'll be happy.

I mean, that part with those two at least is genuinely interesting to me.

It's just the whole

Spoiler

Mirror Elyos

thing that I don't quite find much enjoyment out of it. All the contrary, in fact.

[WindSentinel]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, that part with those two at least is genuinely interesting to me.

It's just the whole

  Hide contents

Mirror Elyos

thing that I don't quite find much enjoyment out of it. All the contrary, in fact.

OH yeah I 100% agree.

Spoiler

Like I said-it's been done already in many ways now. In Awakening it was a whole part of the plot (kinda, it was the future and the parents are dead but still, kinda like a mirror world), Fates' DLC had mirror worlds where the parents died/Anankos took over, so while this is kinda new I'm a little over the mirror world/ruined alt world angle.

Why not have a minor hiccup happen in the world we have? I mean, we could easily just have an exploration of the past and include these dragon characters in it. This allows for pre evil 4 hounds as an excuse to have them appear as nice instead of alternate versions of them. Engage could use more show don't tell for the war 1k years ago, why not use that as a base instead of this?

 

[Cupie]

11 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Do you think there are any chances for an emergency patch to change her title back to Emblem of Conquest at least?

Probably not happening due to voice acting. I personally would have wanted Azura, but only if they hadn't made Byleth's engage skill an aoe refresh.

[BloodRonin]

Anyone know if there were any new datamine with the latest update? 

[Azz]

1 hour ago, BloodRonin said:

Anyone know if there were any new datamine with the latest update? 

Pretty sure the primary think is the Enchanter class and how it works. Any new info is available in the leak Excel sheet managed by Vincent

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qFcABi455ZzLh0Drz1yZAxat5i_GWxIv3SPEDdlcZRE/edit#gid=0

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

18 hours ago, Cupie said:

Probably not happening due to voice acting. I personally would have wanted Azura, but only if they hadn't made Byleth's engage skill an aoe refresh.

Didn’t they alter Bernie’s infamous support in Three Houses via update? I don’t remember who localized that game if it’s them wtaf happened here?! so it’s possible but since this is lol NoA Treehouse sad to the extreme not a single chance since that’s not the only thing that needs fixing their ashame to admit how bad most of their localization work is so it’s definitely getting ignored…

Edited February 12, 2023 by Ivy Wife Supremacy

[Seazas]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:21 PM, WindSentinel said:

OH yeah I 100% agree.

  Hide contents

Like I said-it's been done already in many ways now. In Awakening it was a whole part of the plot (kinda, it was the future and the parents are dead but still, kinda like a mirror world), Fates' DLC had mirror worlds where the parents died/Anankos took over, so while this is kinda new I'm a little over the mirror world/ruined alt world angle.

Why not have a minor hiccup happen in the world we have? I mean, we could easily just have an exploration of the past and include these dragon characters in it. This allows for pre evil 4 hounds as an excuse to have them appear as nice instead of alternate versions of them. Engage could use more show don't tell for the war 1k years ago, why not use that as a base instead of this?

 

 

Spoiler

Because they don't fit. All of Sombron's children are deceased and trying to take characters from the past don't work. Especially when "pre-evil Hounds" aren't apart of the 1000 year old war, only Zephia whose already evil at that point. I think the mirror world was the best call. It gives different spotlight for all the shafted royal siblings and justifies a version of the Hounds joining us without undermining what the plot did with the original Hounds. I'd prefer avoiding an Awakening issue.

 

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, Ivy Wife Supremacy said:

Didn’t they alter Bernie’s infamous support in Three Houses via update? I don’t remember who localized that game if it’s them wtaf happened here?! so it’s possible but since this is lol NoA Treehouse sad to the extreme not a single chance since that’s not the only thing that needs fixing their ashame to admit how bad most of their localization work is so it’s definitely getting ignored…

In Bernie's case, they just had to cut out part of what she said, not re-record a line. Ditto for one of Felix's supports, where they just reused a line from somewhere else. I guess if they're still recording lines for the DLC the director could ask Alear's VAs to redo Camilla's invocation on the side, but given the trailer we got for Wave 4 was voiced they've probably finished (or are close to finishing) VO work for it.

Edited February 12, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Anathaco]

25 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

In Bernie's case, they just had to cut out part of what she said, not re-record a line. Ditto for one of Felix's supports, where they just reused a line from somewhere else. I guess if they're still recording lines for the DLC the director could ask Alear's VAs to redo Camilla's invocation on the side, but given the trailer we got for Wave 4 was voiced they've probably finished (or are close to finishing) VO work for it.

They did entirely re-record all of Male Byleth's voice lines when he changed his VA post-release, so there's definitely a precedent there. Still, what happened in that situation is a far cry from a couple localisation errors, so I doubt they will as well, unfortunately.

[DefyingFates]

28 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

They did entirely re-record all of Male Byleth's voice lines when he changed his VA post-release, so there's definitely a precedent there. Still, what happened in that situation is a far cry from a couple localisation errors, so I doubt they will as well, unfortunately.

Oh right, I forgot about that. But you're right that that was a special circumstance and line redos aren't something we can expect to be a regular occurence.

[WindSentinel]

18 hours ago, Seazas said:

Spoiler

Because they don't fit. All of Sombron's children are deceased and trying to take characters from the past don't work. Especially when "pre-evil Hounds" aren't apart of the 1000 year old war, only Zephia whose already evil at that point. I think the mirror world was the best call. It gives different spotlight for all the shafted royal siblings and justifies a version of the Hounds joining us without undermining what the plot did with the original Hounds. I'd prefer avoiding an Awakening issue.

 

Spoiler

Mmmmm. A good point, Awakening did drop the ball with Aversa, Gangrel and Emmeryn from the whole bending over backwards to justify them surviving.

 

[DefyingFates]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:08 AM, WindSentinel said:

Then I'll be happy.

I just wanted to let you know (really late, I know), that the quoted text from KoriCongo isn't in a spoiler tag. I didn't say anything at the time because this full thread turned into a discussion about the Wave 4 datamine instead of the three new Emblems, but now I really want to ask if we can stay on topic, please? I unfortunately know the gist of the new story now (as have others in this thread even if they didn't want to) and I wanted to suggest moving the datamine talk to another thread?

And to get back on topic: what does everyone think of the new Emblems now that you've had a few days to try them out? Consensus seems to be that Hector is a sidegrade for Ike, Camilla is good for her mobility and Soren is the best of the bunch?

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, Soren is definitely quite obscenely good for every tome-wielding class, even the non-Mystical ones. Between Flare and unlocking Magic Guard 5 to inherit, you have little to fear of them dying.

[DefyingFates]

21 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

even the non-Mystical ones

How so? I know Qi Adepts get 100% healing, but isn't that it for non-Mysticals?

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

How so? I know Qi Adepts get 100% healing, but isn't that it for non-Mysticals?

Sure, every other class type is just a 50% recovery... but it always triggers. So it's all a matter of using a thunder tome for pretty much risk-free self-healing.

[FashionEmblem]

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

And to get back on topic: what does everyone think of the new Emblems now that you've had a few days to try them out? Consensus seems to be that Hector is a sidegrade for Ike, Camilla is good for her mobility and Soren is the best of the bunch?

Hector is more or less a sidegrade for Ike, but on Maddening I'm really appreciating the extra bulk he provides. Plus, immunity to break and always doubling for an enemy phase is actually quite nice—you can't survive as much punishment as Great Aether, but you dish out a lot more damage and I think that's a fair trade-off. I put him on Diamant since in theory Sol and Quick Riposte synergize well, though in practice Diamant doesn't have the dexterity to pull it off reliably. Even then, Diamant is my secondary tank and is appreciating the extra defense from Hector. If Quick Riposte worked like Three Houses, where it prevents being doubled, then it would be very good for armor, but as is sidegrade to Ikesounds about right to me.

I haven't used Camilla too much—I think she's a bit too strong and doing the DLC paralogues rewards so much EXP, even on Maddening, that it torpedoes the difficulty enough without her. The reduced difficulty isn't too bad since I'm replaying story chapters right now, and with the penalty to exp gain from being overleveled eventually it will all even out. I've mostly relegated her to a speed stat stick on Ivy when not running Dire Thunder. I did make good use of Camilla in the paralogues: setting up fire with mystical Fogado to reduce enemy movement in Hector's paralogue, and a great Dark Inferno to simultaneously hit three Wyverns I did not expect to immediately pounce on me when I aggroed Soren from his Bolting range. I like that she gives Speed+Res since I think those are good stats to boost on a Corrin!Yunaka.

Soren is good, though I haven't used his kit much. I have only done chapters 14 and 15 since gaining his bracelet and since I just did his and Hector's paralogues, my team was overleveled and swept through both easily—never did I expect that you can actually keep up with the thieves in Chapter 14 so well in Maddening. I will say, using Bolting, alongside Astra Storm, to bait out Marine and Mauvier without Zephia was lovely and made the map much easier. Sometimes I can kill all 3 at once, but usually I'm counting on Silencing Zephia which is ~75% hit rate, if I recall correctly. This is the first time I tried it too since I was worried previously you would actually bait out all 3 if you attacked any of them and would focus my Astra Storms on the swordsmen in the throne room instead.

---------

Regarding DLC paralogues, including Tiki's, you gain a LOT of experience. The paralogues are always a bit higher level than the story misson at the time, which I imagine is to make them more challenging, but as a consequence you end up overleveled. For context, I did Tiki's paralogue after Chapter 8 and Hector's after Chapter 9, and when I promoted Diamant at the start of Chapter 11, he was level 17 vs. the 14 he usually reaches. I was trying to feed Alcryst a lot of SP to inherit Canter before Chapter 10, so killing wyrms in Tiki's paralogue with Edelgard's bracelet brought him up to level 19 when I promoted him in Chapter 12, when he usually does so at level 14. The downside is my higher internal level kept the level 5 class skills a bit out of reach and some slight reduction in growths before I had enough Master Seals. I don't think it's so much of a problem that the experience and bracelets can trivialize the campaign because on Maddening you really have to earn them. I spent 4+ hours, 22 turns on Soren's paralogue (which actually matched the expected duration of 25 turns, which is hilarious given how much I struggled) and very much almost had to reset at the end.

Since paralogues scale, for my discussion I did paralogues at these points in the story:

1. Before Chapter 9, Tiki
2. Before Chapter 10, Camilla
3. Before Chapter 14, Hector
4. Before Chapter 14, Soren

I did two paralogues early to ensure enough SP to inherit Canter, but Tiki's alone was sufficient once I decided to save Jade's SP for later skills. Then I did the remaining paralogues after getting enough Master Seals to promote everyone. I'd recommend staggering since there's diminishing returns on all this EXP and SP since your exp gains go way down way fast over just 2 paralogues.
 

Spoiler

Tiki's paralogue I didn't struggle as much as I've read elsewhere. I had Micaiah at that point, so AOE Obstructs block the reinforcements and Great Sacrifice helps in a pinch (and I wanted to spam it to get Citrinne glorious SP). The Freeze monk at the start is annoying but went down to Long Bow Alcryst and Bucheron. Warrior!Bucheron gained a level during the map for enough Speed and Build with Sigurd equipped to start doubling and one-rounding the wyrms with long bows and got some enemy phase wyrmslaying action. The round of reinforcements including thiefs can go die in a fire—hardest part of the map. Also do better planning about who gets Rewarp to get the Silver Card. I gave it to Citrinne, but Chloe ended parked by the blue sigil after opening up Rescue and Warp chests while my army was stuck fighting reinforcements before it was safe to summon Tiki. Chloe could have at least used Rewarp to get the Silver Card while she was just waiting.

Camilla's map is, not very hard but what a slog. It heavily favors fliers, since Camilla rains flier reinforcements upon you, and I had ... Chloé. Tiki!Chloé actually did great work as a flying tank, but my goodness that map takes forever when you have to do the full route of snaking around with predominately 4 move infantry. I could have ended the map earlier by baiting Camilla sooner, but the wyrm dropping the money is at the end of the snaking corrider. Was 2000G worth the time and effort? No it was not. But the position where you can bait out Camilla is awkward if there are still structures, so without fliers on my team it also seemed prudent to go the full long way around. Baiting out Camilla is really weird because she wants to attack you with Dark Inferno. Tiki!Chloé would've been the right unit for the job but she wasn't really in the right position, so I stuck a divine blessing on Citrinne that got immediately spent on the bait.

Hector's paralogue is straightforward once you know what the thieves do. Thief 1 opens chest in the north for a Draco Shield, then comes back down to escape in the southwest and Thief 2 opens chest in the north east corner for 2000G and I assume escapes in the same corner. I imagine the map is much easier if you focus on just the Draco Shield, and the 2000G isn't really worth it, but I'm much more reasonable about such things in hindsight. When you split your team, you actually have a tough time dealing with the enemies and reaching the Draco Shield thief in time; I burned a freeze staff charge to do so. At this point enemies also promoted which gives them absurd stats in Maddening. Hector has crazy defense and immune to weakness, so you want to kill him with magic and chain attacks. However, he'll spam Storms Eye so you will want to attack from outside his range or eat two hits (the physical attacks probably kill in 2 hits). Also, Wolf Beil is Cavalry/Armor effective and Armads is Dragon effective, so watch out with Alear and others. Had to take him and his buddies down over the course of a couple turns and used some obstructs to help keep him penned in.

Soren's map was wild for me. I feel like this one would be much easier with more of the emblems because playing it straightforward is painful. You have two thieves running away with a Rescue staff and 2000G. You have to kill both thieves fairly early because you are going to get bogged down by the volcanic meteors, smoke, and stream of reinforcements. Only the former is worth it, but I did go for both. Managed to get the Rescue with a lucky Hand Axe crit due to engraving from Diamant. The Rescue thief is actually easier to kill than I made it for myself, but I spent my Astra Storm on damaging the gold thief instead. Had to burn another Freeze to get the 2000G, which I'd say is worth it (I considered if burning a Warp instead was, and I'd say not worth). Unlike Hector, going for the gold thief didn't make the map especially harder, real suffering came after the thieves were slain. That middle section where enemy reinforcements pin you down on meteor tiles, which do 28 points of damage EVERY turn at the START of enemy phase  as every tile slowly becomes smoke is ... pain—Gris would be quite pleased. Oh, and then you are in this volcanic hell and the new class Enchanters show up and have an effect where your attacks get nullified 30% of the time on their nearby allies (AND THEMSELVES!). And, because of the meteors you don't have the health to survive any enemy phase, and the smoke reduces move so you can't retreat, so you HAVE to kill these enemies and suddenly find yourself fighting with the Time Crystal to figure out which set of RNG allows you to forward until you have no charges left. I'm firmly on team that Enchanters are a bad mechanic and that relies way to much on RNG to be a good challenge (it's like running evasion strats in PvP Pokemon_ and can go die in ... a volcano.

And then you have a near heart attack when Elfire does 12 exact damage on Pandreo after Elthunder brought him down to 12 HP despite how much Res he has and you are so grateful you traded him the engraved Shielding Art that you made to give Alear some dodgetanking so he dodged a 30% Hit. It was exhilarating, but also just too much, and I'm sure I would be quite angry with the game if Pandreo had not survived and I reset after literally 4 hours of struggle. On the bright side, once you meet up with Soren he goes down easy despite 3 health bars since he has low defense and never equipped any tome besides Bolting which gave me free reign in 1-2 range. Since I had no Time Crystal left I fed a bunch of my units Pure Water before attracting Soren. His AI seemed to prioritize using the shielding staff on his allies rather than casting Bolting, which helped. I would guess it's because Bolting had bad hit? Jade got hit with Bolting, but luckily survived thanks to Great Aether + Laguz + Pure Water. That map, makes me scared about the remaining paralogues if they are being released in increasing difficulty. Luckily, I think that's will be an endgame save event for me, so I will have all the emblems and Micaiah!Rewarp skipping could end up being the play.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by FashionEmblem

[Seazas]

19 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I just wanted to let you know (really late, I know), that the quoted text from KoriCongo isn't in a spoiler tag. I didn't say anything at the time because this full thread turned into a discussion about the Wave 4 datamine instead of the three new Emblems, but now I really want to ask if we can stay on topic, please? I unfortunately know the gist of the new story now (as have others in this thread even if they didn't want to) and I wanted to suggest moving the datamine talk to another thread?

And to get back on topic: what does everyone think of the new Emblems now that you've had a few days to try them out? Consensus seems to be that Hector is a sidegrade for Ike, Camilla is good for her mobility and Soren is the best of the bunch?

To cover a different point about the new Emblems. After spending time with them, these choices only reaffirm my stance that they were the best for DLC add-on type emblems. These characters best play off the current emblems and cast in terms of personality and unit niches. Brought a varied amount of ideas others couldn't really do.

[DefyingFates]

5 hours ago, Seazas said:

After spending time with them, these choices only reaffirm my stance that they were the best for DLC add-on type emblems. These characters best play off the current emblems and cast in terms of personality and unit niches.

I have to agree. Character choices aside, all three of the new Emblems seem to be incredibly novel without being overpowered (with the possible exception of Soren). I'm really curious to see how Wave 3's pair will work!

Speaking of, I had a shower realization just now about M!Robin. Yes, he seems to be the more popular Robin, but choosing the male variant also means IS wouldn't be forced to confirm or deny F!Robin being Lucina's mother.

I guess Robin marrying Lucina as a guy comes under fire instead, but for that you could say that this is before they got that far in their relationship... or are being coy because Chrom is right there all the time.

[WindSentinel]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:54 PM, DefyingFates said:

I just wanted to let you know (really late, I know), that the quoted text from KoriCongo isn't in a spoiler tag. I didn't say anything at the time because this full thread turned into a discussion about the Wave 4 datamine instead of the three new Emblems, but now I really want to ask if we can stay on topic, please? I unfortunately know the gist of the new story now (as have others in this thread even if they didn't want to) and I wanted to suggest moving the datamine talk to another thread?

And to get back on topic: what does everyone think of the new Emblems now that you've had a few days to try them out? Consensus seems to be that Hector is a sidegrade for Ike, Camilla is good for her mobility and Soren is the best of the bunch?

Apologies-I fixed it. Big oversight on my end.

[DefyingFates]

5 hours ago, WindSentinel said:

Apologies-I fixed it. Big oversight on my end.

Better late than never 🙂 At least any newcomers to this thread won't be spoiled like we were. Hopefully we do get newcomers!

[BloodRonin]

Overall, I like the bee emblems. It is nice to have another bulk user(Hector) to go along with Ike.  Ike Panette and Hector Diamont combo is deadly. 

As mentioned above, Soren just makes any tome class better. I found his anima skill for debuffs to be useful for bosses as well.

Camilla has really grown on me. I love using her on dagger units for the Arial dagger play. With a wolf knight and canter it is especially good (10 range is crazy). And with enough magic growth you can make use of her magic weapons.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Seven is just such a weird number to end it at. If there'd been 6 rings, that'd at least be a solid 50% of the 12 in the base game. Or go all out - make it a full 12, with one new character from every game already represented. 

Medium-spicy-take, coming from someone with little affection for Heroes and less for Warriors. But if they're going to have a Veronica Emblem, then they should've done a Rowan/Lianna Emblem as well. That way, we're really covering the whole series, spinoffs and all (uh let's say Tiki is representing TMS hashtag FE). Having Heroes be the only "Fire Emblem game that's not a Fire Emblem game" represented is... bleh.

Finally, I know I know, there won't be more Emblem Rings in the Fourth Wave, it's all data-mined, yada yada yada. Still, that's crazy to me. The core gimmick and innovation of the game, and none of it is being saved for the last and meatiest stretch of the DLC? That'd be like the 3H DLC not adding in any new Battalions or Hero's Relics with the Fourth Wave. It'd just be a severe anticlimax.

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Finally, I know I know, there won't be more Emblem Rings in the Fourth Wave, it's all data-mined, yada yada yada. Still, that's crazy to me. The core gimmick and innovation of the game, and none of it is being saved for the last and meatiest stretch of the DLC? That'd be like the 3H DLC not adding in any new Battalions or Hero's Relics with the Fourth Wave. It'd just be a severe anticlimax.

Who knows, maybe IS kept an extra Emblem out of the datamine just to mess with miners?

[lenticular]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Seven is just such a weird number to end it at. If there'd been 6 rings, that'd at least be a solid 50% of the 12 in the base game. Or go all out - make it a full 12, with one new character from every game already represented. 

Having one extra Emblem per game would have been good for keeping fans of different games equally happy, and could also have been an interesting way of preserving game balance. What if, instead of finding additional tchotchkes for the additional Emblems, we instead discover that each ring carries two different Emblems, but only has the power to summon one of them at a time. So, we can summon Marth or Tiki but not both at once, Lyn or Hector but not both at once, and so on. Then towards the end of the game, we could find some macguffin that would let us separate the Emblems so we could run whichever ones we want. That way, the DLC would be more about adding different choices and less about just raw power creep.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Medium-spicy-take, coming from someone with little affection for Heroes and less for Warriors. But if they're going to have a Veronica Emblem, then they should've done a Rowan/Lianna Emblem as well. That way, we're really covering the whole series, spinoffs and all (uh let's say Tiki is representing TMS hashtag FE). Having Heroes be the only "Fire Emblem game that's not a Fire Emblem game" represented is... bleh.

Got to admit, if Emblem Tiki started talking about Fortuna and TikiIsMyWaifu, that would certainly increase the value proposition of the DLC for me. More seriously, though, if they had wanted to rep Warriors in some way, I imagine they'd have gone with Shez over Rowan and Lianna. Both for being more immediately topical, but I also feel that they're more popular (not that I've played either of the Warriors games, though, so maybe I'm wrong there?).

[Solaris998]

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Medium-spicy-take, coming from someone with little affection for Heroes and less for Warriors. But if they're going to have a Veronica Emblem, then they should've done a Rowan/Lianna Emblem as well. That way, we're really covering the whole series, spinoffs and all (uh let's say Tiki is representing TMS hashtag FE). Having Heroes be the only "Fire Emblem game that's not a Fire Emblem game" represented is... bleh

The difference is that IS clearly doesn't consider Heroes to be a "Fire Emblem game that is not a Fire Emblem game". They don't even consider it a spinoff it's listed with mainline games on the official FE website while Warriors and TMS are in their own spinoff category. They consider Heroes to be a mainline FE just on a mobile device.