So...let's talk tiers.

[Lord Raven]

Nabarl's jointime isn't that much worse than Ogma, and once Nabarl starts doubling consistantly [doesn't take that long] then he's totally creaming Ogma. More HP [i believe so anyway], more def, more move, and he has the upper hand in the WTA until Oguma promotes.

Mercenary Ogma.

Upper hand in WTA? Maybe as a cav, but this point doesn't matter too much because evasion rates don't get high at all (WTA doesn't help much, only 10%) and your units tend to miss very little at the same time. At best, it's a minuscule factor.

Nabarl, as a cav, is pretty much even with Ogma except Ogma can double as a Merc right from the get go and for the chapters after that. Nabarl has 6 base speed as a Cav which stunts his starting offense. As a Myrmidon, Ogma has 3 more base HP and 1 less base Def (in comparison to Nabarl), while they both have the same growth. Ogma's bases are still winning on the offensive side by quite a bit; 3 more strength and 1 more speed.

The move advantage exists only as a Cavalier, then Nabarl loses much of his base offense and his growth is pretty much on par with Merc Ogma's at this point.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Shadow Mir]

Also, Hardin has that B in Lances.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Bantu, he can do a half decent job at playing uberunit fromt he time you get him to the rest of the game. That's better than what most of Low can say.

Maria, why? Staves>Bottom tier. She's being punished enough, really.

Rickard, sure.

Dolph, don't see why. He's not really that hard to train, sure, but you don't really get a whole lot out of it. Unless I'm missing something.

Anyway, as for Gordin vs Norne...looking at how bad Gordin's offense stinks pre-promotion, maybe it is close. I was thinking that since Gordin's the better unit once he gets promoted, it would cancel out, but then again, I guess not. Of course, you could always promote Gordin at lvl 10, and he'll still probably hit the magic 19 spd, and win durability over a 20 Norne. Either way, I don't think they should go a tier apart. Gordin also does have a very SLIGHT EXP lead if you choose to use him [because peg reinforcments hate arrows]. Not all that relevant, but it's there.

How can Bantu decently play "Uberunit"? In 29 level ups, the guy averages +11 HP, +5-6 STR, +3 SPD and +3 DEF. His base stats are crap:

HP: 20

ATK: 25

AS 8

DEF 12

How is this even close to Uber? He's nothing but an EXP leech in NM.

Maria: Compare Curate > Sage Gordin and Cleric to Sage Maria stats and you should see why.

Dolph: The guy comes a few chapters earlier than Catria and Palla and as a fighter, he'll surpass Palla.

http://www.feplanet.net/games-11-characters-averages/45

Dolph

Norne >>> Gordin for the same reason Abel > Frey: She doubles earlier. Norne catches up to Gordin's STR at level 20/2 averages 20.45 SPD by then while Gordin averages 15.65. Offensively, Norne's better thanks to her SPD lead. That slight durability and EXP lead Gordin has on Norne isn't gonna make up for the fact that Norne's doubling earlier than him, which can result in a slightly faster growth rate for Norne since she has an easier time killing enemies.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Levin

[Dat Nick]

HP: 20

ATK: 25

AS 8

DEF 12

That's pretty good for the middle of C7, actually.

Maria: Compare Curate > Sage Gordin and Cleric to Sage Maria stats and you should see why.

Yes, we all know Maria sucks. So? She's still not bad enough to be bottom.

Dolph: The guy comes a few chapters earlier than Catria and Palla and as a fighter, he'll surpass Palla.

...His defense is looking pretty shoddy to me. I think I'd prefer him on Hero. Anyway, what do you want, Dolph up, Palla down, both?

Norne >>> Gordin for the same reason Abel > Frey: She doubles earlier. Norne catches up to Gordin's STR at level 20/2 averages 20.45 SPD by then while Gordin averages 15.65. Offensively, Norne's better thanks to her SPD lead. That slight durability and EXP lead Gordin has on Norne isn't gonna make up for the fact that Norne's doubling earlier than him, which can result in a slightly faster growth rate for Norne since she has an easier time killing enemies.

fair enough

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1. That's pretty good for the middle of C7, actually.

2. Yes, we all know Maria sucks. So? She's still not bad enough to be bottom.

3. ...His defense is looking pretty shoddy to me. I think I'd prefer him on Hero. Anyway, what do you want, Dolph up, Palla down, both?

1. Probably but that isn't the case for long, he's obsolete quickly and attack EXP would be better if it goes to units you're actually using or Sedgar and Wolf.

2. Hmm? Why's that? Gordin, a bottom tier unit is useful earlier and his stats as a Curate/Sage are close to Maria's. A bottom tier unit is doing what she could do earlier. JAGEN could also play her role if you just reclass him to Bishop.

3. Hmm yes his DEF as a Fighter isn't gonna be anything special. Move Dolph up... I'll look into Palla later or move her down if you wish.

[Dat Nick]

Upper hand in WTA? Maybe as a cav, but this point doesn't matter too much because evasion rates don't get high at all (WTA doesn't help much, only 10%) and your units tend to miss very little at the same time. At best, it's a minuscule factor.

no, it does matter because lances>>>swords

The move advantage exists only as a Cavalier, then Nabarl loses much of his base offense and his growth is pretty much on par with Merc Ogma's at this point.

ANd his base offense recovers very quickly.

Also...why AREN'T you making Nabarl a cav, exactly? It does wonders from him and nobody else wants that class anyway.

1. Probably but that isn't the case for long, he's obsolete quickly and attack EXP would be better if it goes to units you're actually using or Sedgar and Wolf.

okay then, maybe he's NOT better than low. He's definitly not on the same level with who's in bottom, though.

2. Hmm? Why's that? Gordin, a bottom tier unit is useful earlier and his stats as a Curate/Sage are close to Maria's. A bottom tier unit is doing what she could do earlier. JAGEN could also play her role if you just reclass him to Bishop.

But staves still>>>bottom tier.

As for the Gordin/Jagen thing, you do have to factor in the usual: ANY useless fighter obtained early on with Class Set A can make a good Curate, so it doesn't really apply to just those two. Even if you DO apply it, it still doesn't knock Maria down to bottom tier, because staves>>>>bottom. Why else would the likes of Boa and Riff be in low and not bottom?

[Lord Raven]

no, it does matter because lances>>>swords

No, it doesn't matter because 10% Hit/Evade WTA is minuscule especially considering very few enemies will miss anyway, and you'll miss very little as well.

And his base offense recovers very quickly.

Proof?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1. okay then, maybe he's NOT better than low. He's definitly not on the same level with who's in bottom, though.

But staves still>>>bottom tier.

2. As for the Gordin/Jagen thing, you do have to factor in the usual: ANY useless fighter obtained early on with Class Set A can make a good Curate, so it doesn't really apply to just those two. Even if you DO apply it, it still doesn't knock Maria down to bottom tier, because staves>>>>bottom. Why else would the likes of Boa and Riff be in low and not bottom?

1. Hmm... Closer to Gotoh then? below or above him probably.

2. Then Maria should go below Elice (or perhaps above Linde) because the only thing keeping her from being useless is that Staff EXP she comes with which is easily replaceable through class swap. Etzel > Maria because he can also help with the combat thanks to his B rank in tomes, going to his chapter means a nice a EXP boost for your main units and he easily replaces staff users like Maria.

[Dat Nick]

No, it doesn't matter because 10% Hit/Evade WTA is minuscule especially considering very few enemies will miss anyway, and you'll miss very little as well.

Except it DOES matter because lances will start being dominant before Oguma promotes. And for the record, it's also 1 less damage Oguma does, and 1 more damage he'll take. And Nabarl's already taking less damage than he is.

Proof?

Proof? He owns the fighters in C4 [it's a two round, and theyre doing like, 3 damage back] so he's still great at jointime anyway. I highly doubt he'll have any issues after he hits 9 AS. Toss him the speedwings in C10 if it's that much of an issue: He has very little, if any, competition for them.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Berserkah2DaBladah

[Sylvan]

I don't think bord should be 3rd bottom. He should at least be above Lorenz or Arran. His speed is bad, but even as a fighter he can beat these guys.

Dolph makes a really good horseman or fighter. Don't know if this affects his standing, but if he is trained knight-> horseman, or fighter->horseman he'll be one of the best horsemen on offer. He can have high def, max speed and enough str to dish out some damage. But yeah, don't know if he should change or not.

EDIT: Dolph as a fighter is better than Cord stat-wise. However, he is recruited much later, which affects his tier ranking.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Sylvan

[Lord Raven]

Except it DOES matter because lances will start being dominant before Oguma promotes. And for the record, it's also 1 less damage Oguma does, and 1 more damage he'll take. And Nabarl's already taking less damage than he is.

Oh boy because one damage is SO significant especially considering Ogma's strength lead

Proof? He owns the fighters in C4 [it's a two round, and theyre doing like, 3 damage back] so he's still great at jointime anyway. I highly doubt he'll have any issues after he hits 9 AS. Toss him the speedwings in C10 if it's that much of an issue: He has very little, if any, competition for them.

He's not the only one entitled to speedwings, no matter who we are talking about.

Agreeing with your logic, I could easily use a Dragonshield to compensate for the Defense gap, or Boots for the movement gap. Stat boosters are valid, but not as automatically applying it to one person; no one man is entitled to a stat booster.

Ogma owns the fighters in one round if Nabarl's taking two. Ogma also has the option of becoming a horseman after promotion so the movement lead thins to 1.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Dat Nick]

He's not the only one entitled to speedwings, no matter who we are talking about.

It's not favoritism if nobody cares. Why do you think Merric pretty much has a monopoly on the spirit dusts in H5?

Oh boy because one damage is SO significant especially considering Ogma's strength lead

It's very significant since Nabarl is already killing things, and WTA is only helping him tank damage better.

Agreeing with your logic, I could easily use a Dragonshield to compensate for the Defense gap

Except other units actually give a shit about the defense.

or Boots for the movement gap.

Except other units actually give a shit about the move.

Stat boosters are valid, but not as automatically applying it to one person; no one man is entitled to a stat booster.

Except when nobody else gives a shit about said stat. You can distribute your spirit dusts amongst non-magical units and leave Merric with none, but that sounds like a colossal waste to me.

Ogma owns the fighters in one round if Nabarl's taking two.

Just like there's more to the game than a lategame win, there's more to the game than an earlygame win, otherwise Jeigan would be in the top slot.

Ogma also has the option of becoming a horseman after promotion so the movement lead thins to 1.

Great, except:

A: Bows suck

B: Ogma gets raped in overall stats [Nabarl might actually be FASTER after he goes Horseman]

C: He is now locked to swords for meleeing, a very BAD thing in a lance dominant game

D: Nabarl is still winning move

Do this, and now Nabarl REALLY kicks Ogma's ass.

Oh, yeah, and before you bring it up....Every unit up to C10 that may or may not care about the speedwings:

Marth: No way.

Abel: Obviously not.

Frey: See above.

Cain: He'll be more than fine in the AS department by now.

Shiida: ...You can't be serious.

Jeigan: ...lolol

Gordin: Sure, IF you're using him he would want it....that's a big if right there. Even then I'd have my doubts he's still struggling that badly.

Norne: No.

Riff: lolno

Daros: Not as merc.

Barst: His base is good enough to last him until the next one rolls around, plus he is gaining speed. He'll have no doubling issues at this point.

Cord: Has no use for it.

Bord: Won't save him as fighter, overkill as Merc

Ogma: Obviously not

Castor: He's fine by this point.

Julian: ....You're kidding, right?

Lena: By the time you get it, it won't do her any good. She can wait.

Machis: As classes that have fail speed [hi cav], it takes multiple just to make him sufficent. As classes that don't have fail speed, it's overkill.

Merric: He's MORE off than fine.

Vyland: He has plenty.

Roshea: Not saving him.

Hardain: Overkill AS, wasteful, blah blah blah

Wolf: Rofl no

Sedgar: lmfao NO

Wendel: ...No?

Rickard: Yeah, like that's gonna help.

Athena: Again, a waste.

Banuto: ....lol?

Caesar: ...More waste? If doubling is that much of a problem, switch him to Iron. He'll outgrow that issue by the time it comes, anyway.

Radd: Talk about a waste. His problem is fail attack. Not speed.

Roger: Won't help him in the slightest.

Minerva: Her base is more than sufficent.

Maria: ...No. Just...just no. You'd be crazy to think this would help. She won't get doubled by the mamkutes anymore. That's it.

...Yep, a lot of units are just heartbroken over that speed loss. Unless Captain Gordin is in play, a scenario highly unlikely, absolutely nobody gives a crap about Nabarl taking that speedwing, since it does them no good at all.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Berserkah2DaBladah

[Rodykitty]

I heavily disagree with factoring in stat boosting items to weigh in a character more. We have to keep in mind that RNG screwage is possible, and thus anyone could potentially need a stat boosting item.

[Mekkah]

If having staves means you're out of bottom tier, then every Male set A unit should go out of it, not just Maria.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Mekkah

[Lord Raven]

It's not favoritism if nobody cares. Why do you think Merric pretty much has a monopoly on the spirit dusts in H5?

No, it's favoritism if he's not the only one who can use it.

It's very significant since Nabarl is already killing things, and WTA is only helping him tank damage better.

+1 damage isn't significant, though.

Except other units actually give a shit about the defense.

Nabarl isn't the only one who cares about Speed, too.

Except other units actually give a shit about the move.

And Ogma also cares about move.

Except when nobody else gives a shit about said stat. You can distribute your spirit dusts amongst non-magical units and leave Merric with none, but that sounds like a colossal waste to me.

What if the person wants to use a Levin Sword?

My point is: you can't say that x person will always get y item to close a gap between two characters because you can always use it on the character with the better stat to further enforce the gap. It's favoritism to do so if everyone is able to use it.

Just like there's more to the game than a lategame win, there's more to the game than an earlygame win, otherwise Jeigan would be in the top slot.

Jagen's early game wins against everyone until Chapter 2.

Ogma's early game basically destroys Nabarl's, then it carries on for a while. After promotion Ogma can easily get the Horseman class too so the movement gap closes between them.

Great, except:

A: Bows suck

Horseman class also uses Swords. Ogma has a high Sword weapon level.

B: Ogma gets raped in overall stats [Nabarl might actually be FASTER after he goes Horseman]

Not "raped" seeing as, you even said so yourself, the speed is irrelevant because both are going to double. In which case, I'm pretty sure Ogma has a Strength and HP lead here.

C: He is now locked to swords for meleeing, a very BAD thing in a lance dominant game

They're not bad in a game where WTA is irrelevant.

D: Nabarl is still winning move

By 1. Where Ogma is winning HP by a lot.

Do this, and now Nabarl REALLY kicks Ogma's ass.

Actually, give me the raw stats behind this and I'll take a look for myself since I'm not buying it at all.

If not, then Nabarl's not doubling for a while as a Cav + Ogma's offense is raping his as a Merc until like Chapter 13 or 14 so Ogma > Nabarl, because Nabarl's leads aren't THAT significant after he promotes. If anything, it's just move and Defense.

Oh, yeah, and before you bring it up....Every unit up to C10 that may or may not care about the speedwings:

INSERT LIST OF CHARACTERS HERE

...Yep, a lot of units are just heartbroken over that speed loss. Unless Captain Gordin is in play, a scenario highly unlikely, absolutely nobody gives a crap about Nabarl taking that speedwing, since it does them no good at all.

This point is completely irrelevant. No matter how you cover it up, it's favoritism.

[Dat Nick]

+1 damage isn't significant, though.

I keep saying: It's MINUS one damage. You take more damage when you're getting the WTD, too.

-1 damage when you're already taking way less damage than Ogma is.

I heavily disagree with factoring in stat boosting items to weigh in a character more. We have to keep in mind that RNG screwage is possible, and thus anyone could potentially need a stat boosting item.

We also have to keep in mind that we're assuming averages.

Also I'm not assuming Nabarl automatically gets them, but when you look at who he's competing with, he has a VERY high chance. Unless you're using Captain Gordin, which isn't going to happen to often.

If having staves means you're out of bottom tier, then every Male set A unit should go out of it, not just Maria.

ANYBODY can become one, though, so it's not any more a plus for Jagen than it is for Gordin.

No, it's favoritism if he's not the only one who can use it.

He's the only one who really cares, and/or benefits from it at all. GIving it to Marth is a waste.

Nabarl isn't the only one who cares about Speed, too.

Yes he is, at that point.

And Ogma also cares about move.

Same story with everybody else. Nobody else gives a shit about losing the speedwings, UNLIKE the boots, which other units actually give a damn about.

Horseman class also uses Swords. Ogma has a high Sword weapon level.

He's still suck with swords in a lance dominant game. That's a bad thing.

Ogma's early game basically destroys Nabarl's, then it carries on for a while.

Not nearly as long as you keep saying.

After promotion Ogma can easily get the Horseman class too so the movement gap closes between them.

But he doesn't WANT the Horseman class. It rapes his stats, makes him lose more to Nabarl than he already is, and it's all for naught because he's still losing move. What's the point? There is none.

Not "raped" seeing as, you even said so yourself, the speed is irrelevant because both are going to double.

Also -1 defense and swords. He's taking 2....no, THREE more damage against things. That matters.

In which case, I'm pretty sure Ogma has a Strength and HP lead here.

Horseman cuts his HP lead, and he takes more damage as well due to 1 less defense and stuck on the WTD.

By 1.

so what? He's still winning, meaning changing Ogma to Horseman was a total waste of him.

Where Ogma is winning HP by a lot.

Put him on Horseman and it's not nearly as much as he used to, plus he's taking more damage. Nabarl is actually more durable now. ...Much more durable, actually.

If anything, it's just move and Defense.

Beats Ogma's overkill str. Also, if you swap him to Horseman, then Ogma is getting owned in every area where it counts. Wanna hear a hoot?

This point is completely irrelevant. No matter how you cover it up, it's favoritism.

Except it's not, because he's not getting anything that actually benefits somebody else, and I've gone through EVERY SINGLE UNIT HE CAN POSSIBLY COMPETE with to prove this. Just like using spirit dusts on anybody not named Merric in H5 [since Merric is basically the only usable mage in H5] is a waste. Guys like the cavs will go from doubling everything on the map to doubling everything on the map. Guys like Roger and Jake will go from not doubling to not doubling. Nabarl is seriously the only one who makes any real use out of it.

Oh yeah, little trivia. Ogma barley starts out winning HP by the time the two promote. Nabarl's HUGE defense lead is worth far more. As time goes on, Nabarl also starts to close the gap in HP. Eventually, they tie, but Nabarl's huge defense lead causes him to win durability. And everything else, for that matter.

tldr; Ogma as Horseman sucks, and does nothing but allow Nabarl to own him even HARDER. That's out.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

If having staves means you're out of bottom tier, then every Male set A unit should go out of it, not just Maria.

Precisely why Maria should hit bottom tier. Just the fact CURATE GORDIN comes 6 chapters earlier and has comparable stats to Maria should be enough to say this. Who cares if she has some staff EXP when reaching her rank takes little effort?

Edited January 11, 2009 by Levin

[Mekkah]

ANYBODY can become one [Cleric], though, so it's not any more a plus for Jagen than it is for Gordin.

I think you missed my point. If only staves are keeping Maria out of Bottom tier, then that's Gordin doing there?

[Rodykitty]

Gordon could probably go above Maria. Significant join time lead, and definite HP, speed, and defense lead.

His Mag sucks though, so he's better off healing than fighting.

[Klaus]

I must be missing something here...why is Darros so much higher than Bord even though the two have pretty much the same stats, same join time, and have access to the same classes? Darros has his Def lead, but Bord can support Ogma, Barst, and Cord to make them even better. I wouldn't say Bord's better than Darros, but for them to be seperated by five tiers? That's seems to be a little much.

[Lord Raven]

I keep saying: It's MINUS one damage. You take more damage when you're getting the WTD, too.

If the minus one stacks up over times, your argument would hold water. But it doesn't because Ogma has the strength to compensate.

-1 damage when you're already taking way less damage than Ogma is.

Nope, it's not

Also I'm not assuming Nabarl automatically gets them, but when you look at who he's competing with, he has a VERY high chance. Unless you're using Captain Gordin, which isn't going to happen to often.

He has the same chance as everyone else because it can be used on anyone.

He's the only one who really cares, and/or benefits from it at all. GIving it to Marth is a waste.

But he's still not the only one that can use it. Who cares if it goes to waste, it can be used on others.

Same story with everybody else. Nobody else gives a shit about losing the speedwings, UNLIKE the boots, which other units actually give a damn about.

It doesn't matter who gives a damn about what, it's still bias to automatically assume Nabarl is getting it. In fact you may as well save it and give it to someone later who has a tough time doubling instead of giving it to Nabarl, because they might need it more.

He's still suck with swords in a lance dominant game. That's a bad thing.

That's a bad thing in a game where WTA matters, not in a game where you can easily shrug it off.

Not nearly as long as you keep saying.

Proof?

But he doesn't WANT the Horseman class. It rapes his stats, makes him lose more to Nabarl than he already is, and it's all for naught because he's still losing move. What's the point? There is none.

Sigh, time to bring out some numbers.

As a Merc, he'll have about 17 Speed at Level 20.

He promotes. 19 Speed.

He switches to Horseman. 15 Speed.

His strength reaches 14 as well.

Promotion, 16 Strength.

Horseman, 14 Strength.

His stats get "Raped" my fucking asshole.

On the other hand, Nabarl...

Cavalier, 12 Speed at Level 20.

Promotion gives him 1 Speed. 13. Oh wait, Ogma wins here!

Cavalier, 13 Strength at Level 20.

Promotion gives him Strength, 15. Ogma only loses by one point, with a significant AS and HP lead, as well as a level lead of about two to actually make their Strength stats even.

And you honestly think he's getting raped?

Also -1 defense and swords. He's taking 2....no, THREE more damage against things. That matters.

Not when his HP is a lot higher.

Horseman cuts his HP lead, and he takes more damage as well due to 1 less defense and stuck on the WTD.

WOW ONE LESS DEFENSE MY GOD

And Horseman doesn't do anything for his previous HP growth. Hell, you don't even need to make him a Horseman necessarily; he's fine with Hero, and he's offensively more powerful ESPECIALLY with axes to fight against the WTA.

Except it's not, because he's not getting anything that actually benefits somebody else, and I've gone through EVERY SINGLE UNIT HE CAN POSSIBLY COMPETE with to prove this. Just like using spirit dusts on anybody not named Merric in H5 [since Merric is basically the only usable mage in H5] is a waste. Guys like the cavs will go from doubling everything on the map to doubling everything on the map. Guys like Roger and Jake will go from not doubling to not doubling. Nabarl is seriously the only one who makes any real use out of it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/favoritism

Oh yeah, little trivia. Ogma barley starts out winning HP by the time the two promote. Nabarl's HUGE defense lead is worth far more. As time goes on, Nabarl also starts to close the gap in HP. Eventually, they tie, but Nabarl's huge defense lead causes him to win durability. And everything else, for that matter.

I'm not even seeing where you're calling it huge because Ogma can easily take a level up or two as a Knight to close the gap pretty easily. >_> It's just base Defense, Ogma's HP growth and equal defense growth really doesn't mean Nabarl rapes him.

Also: Barst receives support from him, as do Bord and Cord (and Nabarl, in fact) so he helps a lot more characters than Nabarl does.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Don Draper]

^I'd counter that debate, but I already know BeserkerBlade is going to rip it to shreds, so why bother :/

Nabarl vs. Ogma is strength/defense/move/better weapon selection vs. AS. Of course Nabarl is better.

[Lord Raven]

Nabarl has better Strength? Really?

Ogma can easily get that defense lead narrowed with a few levels as a Knight, and he can narrow the move with the Horseman class after promotion (which, once again, puts him at Nabarl's level quite easily).

Better weapon selection is when they're equal. Of course, after promotion they're equal. Before promotion, Ogma can change classes to Fighter if you're so worried about Lances (so he can get the advantage) whereas Nabarl can't.

and frankly... Nabarl's AS is poor [as a Cav] for a while. Ogma's is not.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Don Draper]

-Nabarl has a 1 strength advantage, which is an advantage nonetheless

-And Nabarl can just as easily get that speed advantage narrowed down with a few levels as Archer, and he's not sacrificing any other stats (whereas Ogma's losing a lot of speed as a Knight)

-Paladin>Horseman in move

-If Ogma becomes a Fighter, he's losing even more defense, and it narrows his speed lead.

[Lord Raven]

-And Nabarl can just as easily get that speed advantage narrowed down with a few levels as Archer, and he's not sacrificing any other stats (whereas Ogma's losing a lot of speed as a Knight)

A random Knight, Fighter, Mercenary level up thing

http://www.feplanet.net/index.php?fep=game...amp;id=44&c[5]=24&c[6]=24&c[7]=20&c[8]=24&c[9]=24&c[10]=24&c[11]=20&c[12]=24&c[13]=24&c[14]=24&c[15]=14&c[16]=14&c[17]=14&c[18]=14&c[19]=14&c[20]=14&c[21]=17&c[22]=17&c[23]=17&c[24]=17&c[25]=17&c[26]=17&c[27]=17&c[28]=17&c[29]=17&c[30]=17&c[31]=17&c[32]=17&c[33]=17&c[34]=17&c[35]=17&c[36]=17&c[37]=17&c[38]=17&c[39]=17&c[40]=17

EDIT: okay let me find the averages I input again

Now he's pretty much exactly the same as Nabarl, with a significant amount more HP. Assuming full Cav Nabarl. This also assumes he's a Fighter at Level 20, so the HP/Strength might drop slightly... and the defense is subject to increase.

Paladin>Horseman in move

But the Horseman only has one less move.

-If Ogma becomes a Fighter, he's losing even more defense, and it narrows his speed lead.

His growth is only 5% less then. Switching back to Merc gets the base defense back.

Archer's speed lead narrows the defense lead about as much.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Nathan Graves