HM Playthrough

[Balcerzak]

Last night I began a runthrough of this on Hard Mode. Ultimate goal it to try to rank, but this is my first time on HM (3rd overall, but on the first I didn't know about the gaiden chapter requirements and got the short ending. :()

I'll give ~frequentish updates, in case anyone cares to follow along, and while input and suggestions will be appreciated, they will not all necessarily be followed. (Roy marrying a girl is a must. No alternatives will be tolerated, this is your only warning.)

Chapter 1:

This chapter was a royal bitch. Even making (what I considered to be) good use of Marcus to soften up every enemy he could, Alan and Lance kept getting doubled up on and killed somewhere in the first couple of turns. Then I passed that and Wolt got his ass handed to him (due to me being careless), and if it wasn't him, then it was Roy. I had to retry it about 10 times (low end estimate) before I really got a (working) strategy I was comfortable with going, and didn't get owned by poor RNs.

Random notes: Time taken was somewhere around ~10 turns (I tried to keep track but got excited/distracted and missed a few). Every enemy killed, Lance got the Boss kill, Wolt picked up the village gold. Decent levels gained, except Roy, if memory served.

Chapter 2:

In contrast, this chapter was blazed through on the first go. Smooth sailing, really. Ward's accuracy sucks worse than I remembered. Marcus again was used liberally as a tenderizer, with Dieck playing a similar role on the RHS once he arrived. Thany got a few kills in, trying to do her part to help EXP rank and send me to Ilia.

Random notes: Time taken was somewhere around ~12 turns (Ellen's xp provides a good standard candle :)). Merlinus visited the village to snag the armorslayer, because he has nothing better to do; he'll give it to Dieck (most likely) in Chap 3. Thought about buying vulneraries, decided against it; hope I do not regret this. Marcus parked himself in front of the boss with his silver lance for two turns while Roy finished moving forward. At or around that time Boss went down to 5 hp, so I sent in Dieck with Iron Blade to do 2 dmg, Alan with an Iron lance to double at 1 apiece (though he missed once), and Roy got the finishing blow, dealing 2 dmg (lol). Again, good levels around, except for Roy, and Ellen's was ~blah, though it did give magic, which she gets screwed in (for me).

Chapter 3:

Only made it one attempt through, before turning in for the night. I thought I'd had a good formation going, but either didn't expect the soldier to hit Chad, or didn't correctly calculate the damage to figure out it was a OHKO. :( Not sure the best team to subdivide and send to get Lugh (NB: If you have opinions, this would be the place where they'd be most appreciated). I was thinking using Marcus' full move to park at the edge of the Iron Lance soldier, to soften him, but then have Marcus turn around and head to the main area where he'll likely be desperately needed. Ward, Lot, and Thany were who I were thinking should go clean up the near dead soldier, and the Javelin soldier and the archer, mainly because they'll be least missed in the bulk of the chapter, IMO.

Current Stats/Levels:

Key: Level [LL.XP], HP, STR, SK, SP, L, D, R
Marcus:   01.77 [Base Stats]
Roy:	  03.27, 19, 05, 06, 07, 08, 07, 01
Lance:	04.26, 22, 07, 08, 11, 03, 06, 01
Alan:	 04.15, 24, 09, 05, 08, 06, 07, 00
Ellen:	03.21, 16, 02, 06, 08, 08, 00, 07
Thany:	02.74, 18, 04, 06, 13, 05, 06, 05
Dieck:	05.97 [Base Stats]
Lot:	  03.69 [Base Stats]
Ward:	 02.64 [Base Stats]
Chad:	 01.00 [Base Stats]
Bors:	 01.35 [Base Stats]
Wolt:	 01.93 [Base Stats]
Merlinus: 01.00 [Base Stats]

Future Plans:

Supports:

Alan <A> Lance

Roy <C> Alan

Roy <C> Lance

Roy <A> [girl] (Either Lalum, or Cecilia is likely, as I've already wed Lilina.)

Echidna Route: I used her last playthrough, good results, will use again.

Ilia Route: I tried Sacae last playthrough. While manageable, nomads are trickier than P Knights.

Gonzales <A> Lilina

Rutger <A> Clarine (Used Noah x Fir last playthrough, Noah was decidedly mediocre, so despite love for Fir...)

Rutger <B> Dieck

Clarine <B> Dieck

Dieck <C> Lot (if it happens before I ditch Lot and doesn't make me go out of my way)

Others ???

Edit: Added the bit about Merlinus and village in Chap 2.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Balcerzak

[Mekkah]

I would abstain from earlygame supports you will ditch later. You have a limited number of support points to be gathered per chapter, and I think it helps more to simply focus on perm supports. Remember that Marcus can also leech your points by standing next to Roy, Alan or Lance.

Lilina...isn't a very good character. I don't know if you'll keep up with ranking, but pretty much all she's good for is the EXP rank. Mages in this game have pretty bad stats, unfortunately.

For Ch3, I usually retreat a bit on turn 1, and have Alan/Lance/Marcus, perhaps with 2-range equipped, bait all the soldiers. There's simply too many of them on the first few turns to baby some nob like Chad. After that, enemies come in small portions.

I would send Lot/Ward to the village on the right, since you probably will not be using them as a main force, while they're still capable of handling enemies. I usually have Bors go visit Lugh, though he will really rape your combat rank if he does so (misses 1/3 of the time, ~3HKOs the enemies...he also can't counter the Archer and Javelin, unless you want to make him worse against the others by using his own Javelin). So perhaps you should just send a small couple of your expendable forces there.

Random tip: try having Marcus attack using axes. If you can get him to D axes before Ch7, he'll be able to OHKO those Cavaliers with the Halberd. I doubt he'll make it to Halberd level in Ch4, but if he does, it helps a lot.

[Balcerzak]

I would abstain from earlygame supports you will ditch later. You have a limited number of support points to be gathered per chapter, and I think it helps more to simply focus on perm supports. Remember that Marcus can also leech your points by standing next to Roy, Alan or Lance.

I assume this is mostly about my Dieck/Lot comment, but also just in general, yes? I suppose that is a very good point to keep in mind as I'm most used to 7's support system, and don't often think about the per/level gains. Still, browsing over to the section on the main site it mentions "A maximum amount of 120 points can be accumulated for all characters per chapter. For example, in Chapter 20, Roy and Lilina use up 60 points to go from a C support to a B support, leaving 60 points left for other characters."

(In the paragraphs that follow, my initial misunderstanding left in for instructional purposes. I clearly forgot about taking the rate of growth into account. Text that wasn't in my original draft will be in a different font face.)

Now, unless I'm reading this wrong it means that points are considered pairwise, and not individually, so Alan/Lance are only taking one per turn (not two), and similarly Roy/Alan, etc. So far I don't have very many supports that need building (due to abundance of shitty starting characters), and the chapters are pretty short. So even if I was doing the best I could, and growing two out of the triangle in the Roy/Alan/Lance triangle, as well as Dieck/Lot, and maybe Chad/Lugh, that's 4 points a turn, which would mean it would take 30 turns before I hit the cap, and that's assuming I always end the turn with perfect placement (which often isn't tactically advantageous).

Without any real good guide at what's needed for tactics, I'm inclined to simply push through the levels as fast as I can, until I get Elphin, at which point I can know whether to afford a more leisurely pace. So I've been taking a cue from my last NM playthrough (recorded during the scrolling end credits), as just a rough approximate of the speed I can finish chapters in:

Chap 1: 8

Chap 2: 9

Chap 3: 12

Chap 4: 8

Chap 5: 6

Chap 6: 20

Chap 7: 12

Chap 8: 22

Chap 8x: 16

Chap 9: 12

Assumption: I need to take an additional 25% more time due to the increase in difficulty (initial estimate based on results of the first two chapters).

I still won't be hitting the 30 turn mark (the will be occasional times where a 20 turn limit for growing six supports might be an issue when I need to worry about two of the three in Rutger/Clarine/Dieck). But again not everyone will always place perfectly, so if I lose a few points to say an accidental Marcus/Lance, I don't think it's too concerning.

Okay, let's do a little reappraisal of the situation. In a chapter with ~20 turns that's six support points per turn. Let's assume I misplace people at the end of about 25% of the time, due to tactical positioning, and they can't grow their support. That means I could theoretically work with eight points of growable support a turn (8 * .75 = 6). Which would only account for say Roy/Lance/Alan, and Rutger/Clarine/Dieck (when they arrive) with one spare point to account for accidents. Then consider the fact that I'll be getting more new characters who will want supports faster than I'll be capping out the old supports. Yikes! You're right, I clearly need to be a lot more careful about things than I'd initially assumed.

That being said, now that you've mentioned it, it can't hurt to be observant about characters that I fully expect to be benching, so I will be making a point to do so. It hasn't yet been an issue, as Marcus has usually been forging nearly four squares ahead of the other two cavs and Roy. But you are quite right to point it out, because as the roster grows, accidental pairings will certainly become much more common, especially when I haven't memorized who all supports whom, so I thank you for this.

Lilina...isn't a very good character. I don't know if you'll keep up with ranking, but pretty much all she's good for is the EXP rank. Mages in this game have pretty bad stats, unfortunately.

Yeah, I know, but I have a soft spot for her as a character, she's cute, and has obscene magic growth. If I start to worry about speed, I can always do a little RNG magic to help her out a little. Also, I am very worried about EXP rank. On my last NM playthrough, I was having issues with this, up until the giant chapter with the Wyverns, and Murdock, and the 18 character limit, though after that things seemed to be fine. I wasn't even using a small select core of people, but was rather trying to make good use of the decent pre-promotes to make up for having not used the full complement of promotion items (as I was saving them for funds); I'd also raised a bunch of characters that start off underleveled (Fir, Lilina, Sue), and so forth. So I thought I should have been in good shape, which was why I was surprised when it was dipping below "Perfect", and am a little nervous about it in this playthrough as well.

For Ch3, I usually retreat a bit on turn 1, and have Alan/Lance/Marcus, perhaps with 2-range equipped, bait all the soldiers. There's simply too many of them on the first few turns to baby some nob like Chad. After that, enemies come in small portions.

I would send Lot/Ward to the village on the right, since you probably will not be using them as a main force, while they're still capable of handling enemies. I usually have Bors go visit Lugh, though he will really rape your combat rank if he does so (misses 1/3 of the time, ~3HKOs the enemies...he also can't counter the Archer and Javelin, unless you want to make him worse against the others by using his own Javelin). So perhaps you should just send a small couple of your expendable forces there.

I had Bors give his Iron Lance to Alan (who had the Javelin at that point) at the end of Chapter 2 so I could use Lance to perform the sort of convoluted rescuing chain I needed in order to make three attacks in one turn on the Boss, and finish him off. I could probably give it back to him now, though as a rule I despise units with low movement rates. They're always the first to get benched.

Those are good ideas, though, I'll experiment around and see what works. I'm sort of expecting this to be another Chapter 1, involving a lot of false starts, and readjusting strategy. When I beat it I'll give an update explaining what I finally decided on.

You're definitely right about Chad though, he was certainly a lot more frail than I expected/remembered, and will probably not be trying to get many 'finishing blow' kills with him, like I was first planning.

Random tip: try having Marcus attack using axes. If you can get him to D axes before Ch7, he'll be able to OHKO those Cavaliers with the Halberd. I doubt he'll make it to Halberd level in Ch4, but if he does, it helps a lot.

That's a great idea, now that I actually have some axes. However, if he takes one, that's going to deprive either Lot or Ward of an iron axe and make their accuracy even crappy... I'll give it some more thought, and see what I can come up with. If Chapter 7 is the one I think it is (the Zealot/Treck/Noah intro level with the arena), then one rounding those cavs will be a definite plus, even if I usually don't like Marcus getting finishing blows. There's simply too much going on in that chapter to be leaving things half-dead.

Also, purely out of curiousity, what is the Power ranking (as claimed in the auguries, or Weapons ranking as claimed in the end game report card) based on? The others seemed similar to their FE7 equivalents, but I never got a good handle on that one.

Edit: Small grammar, and clarity issues. Misunderstanding corrected. Added question.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Balcerzak

[VincentASM]

The Power Rank is determined by the total Level of all characters. Promoted units count as Level + 20.

Basically, it's like another Experience rank. So you can imagine why they ditched in in FE7 : /

Edited December 4, 2008 by VincentASM

[Mekkah]

I assume this is mostly about my Dieck/Lot comment, but also just in general, yes?

Yeah.

Without any real good guide at what's needed for tactics, I'm inclined to simply push through the levels as fast as I can, until I get Elphin, at which point I can know whether to afford a more leisurely pace. So I've been taking a cue from my last NM playthrough (recorded during the scrolling end credits), as just a rough approximate of the speed I can finish chapters in:

With Reikken's estimate of 20 turns per chapter, the enemies 2HKOing your PCs for a long time and your worry about the EXP rank, you may want to take it a little more slowly. Though if you find you have turns leftover, you can always hit the arena (if you're able to do RNG magic, I'm sure you can do this in a risk free way as well).

If you're worried about EXP rank, I would recommend fielding more than one unpromoted healer (which isn't a bad idea anyway with the desert chapter crippling Clarine). Later on, unit spots come in huge amounts, and at some points you just don't want to field those 20/0 characters waiting for their Knight Crest, Guiding Ring or what-have-you, so you can spend spots on people like Cecilia to get it up some more. It really is a shame you can't buy Torch or Barrier staves in this game, because they provide pretty much infinite EXP.

This game also offers a good amount of other units who can boost EXP without dying to a stray leaf falling off a tree. Echidna route Gonzales, Fa, Fir, Miledy even Zeis if you're gutsy.

You're definitely right about Chad though, he was certainly a lot more frail than I expected/remembered, and will probably not be trying to get many 'finishing blow' kills with him, like I was first planning.

He should get some, but his joining chapter and the next aren't ideal for it, to say the least. Next map has Pirates, but when Chad is attacking them while not on a forest square, he pretty much has to keep his fingers crossed all the time, since they OHKO him. Ch5 is a little nicer, since it has loads of terrain and has lots and lots of axe users. And then he can do a comeback on the Western Isles too.

That's a great idea, now that I actually have some axes. However, if he takes one, that's going to deprive either Lot or Ward of an iron axe and make their accuracy even crappy...

You can always use the Steel Axe. He won't get the 2 WEXP he'd get in FE7, nor will he double anymore, but he'll do enough to allow Rapier Roy to deal a finishing blow. He can also throw Hand Axes at the boss for no reason other than WEXP, but that hurts combat.

If Chapter 7 is the one I think it is (the Zealot/Treck/Noah intro level with the arena), then one rounding those cavs will be a definite plus, even if I usually don't like Marcus getting finishing blows. There's simply too much going on in that chapter to be leaving things half-dead.

Ch7 is a huge nightmare that you really cannot really afford to be picky in. I expect you'll be taking longer than 12 turns. The first 5-6 turns are obviously the hardest, but from there you also need to pick up villages, chests (you can buy keys in the shop, I wouldn't field Chad here), and you have a whole bunch of ranged northern reinforcements to take care of, not to mention a group of 4 cavaliers, with the dreaded L17 Silver Lance one in the lead.

[Duff Ostrich]

I thought I'd had a good formation going, but either didn't expect the soldier to hit Chad, or didn't correctly calculate the damage to figure out it was a OHKO. :(

I swear to God, I glue Chad to that wall at least once every single playthrough and that javelin soldier tries to hit him. I always forget and never expect it.

Chad as a fighter has huge troubles in HM. I usually spoonfeed him kills in chapters 4 and 5 since there are forests and axe users to take advantage of.

Good luck though. Ranking in this game gets hard.

[Mekkah]

At least it has more balanced requirements than FE7, with combat mattering while tactics and EXP being rather lenient.

[dondon151]

You know, you can just look under the data option in the menu for your turn count >.>

[Mekkah]

That doesn't give you your cumulative turn count for all chapters so far, does it?

[dondon151]

No, but TC was saying stuff like "I lost track of turns" etc. for each chapter so it didn't seem like he was aware of that.

As for total turns... use an Excel chart.

[Balcerzak]

Update first, replies second.

Chapter 3:

Pretty much followed my original plan for division of labor with a few of the suggestions thrown in. Played the begining much more defensive. Marcus baited and weakened the Iron Lance soldier, then quickly ran back to main action. Ward, Lot, and Thany went up north to finish off the weakened soldier, the javelin soldier, and the archer. Thany visits village, recruits Lugh. Meanwhile back at the line, the enemy soldier keep coming, even the ones from the eastern village. After they're dead, send Bors to visit the village. Press onward through the main bulk of the castle with my strong units (Dieck, Lance, Alan, Marcus). I probably was too aggressive, as I would have been in a tight spot if not for a lucky Rapier crit against an enemy sword cav on one of the later turns. Paid more attention to healing and caution at this point. Marcus and the cavs (and Chad) head south to deal with the armor knights and collect the booty (Chad snags the vulnerary as well), while Dieck and Roy deal with the fighters and advance on the Boss. Thany drops Lugh nearby, so that after Dieck cripples the Boss with the armorslayer, he snags a sweet 90 XP kill to help him play a little catch up. Roy seizes.

Misc: Somewhere along the way Alan <C> Lance occurred. I forget when. Turns taken ~16.

Chapter 4:

First half of the chapter was more-or-less straightforward: Marcus baits enemies into attacking him in order to soften them up for others to kill. Nomads and archers made this a little more difficult, but still manageable. Things became slightly tricky as I always forget exactly when and where Rutger's forces appear, so this led to a false start on a very good run when he showed up one square more forward than I'd expected, and came and criticalled Marcus. :( Decided to play the next attempt more conservatively, unfortunately this meant Roy was just one square out of reach of Clarine's second move cycle (I wasn't aware this would be a problem, as I thought Roy could recruit her, but I'm not sure if I could have re-arranged things differently anyways. Sucks that she has to recruit herself though...) No problems with Rutger this time, Clarine recruited him uninjured and everything was grand, in fact, half of his forces went on a wild goose chase to hunt Merlinus, who'd been (somewhat) cautiously approaching the northwest village (he'd already cleared the starting village on turn 2). Of course, as soon as I saw that, he came back around and led the troops to my main forces, and their doom. The slight respite was nice though, as they couldn't attack me for ~2 turns longer than they ordinarily would have, giving my much more breathing room to finish off the rest of Eric's cavalry. I brought Chad back from harrassing the pirates, who'd just started spawning, so that he could steal their vulneraries (I killed the first Fighter, that didn't take the detour, without stealing his, as Chad was just too far away to bother trying to keep him alive, but I've long ago resigned myself to the fact that you can't get _everything_.) Around this time Merlinus went up the other side of the cliff and actually did manage to visit that village.

Now I'm thinking I'm more or less in the clear; got to kill the boss and mop up the small stream of pirates, nothing too hard, amirite? Wrong! All of a sudden, 4 cav reinforcements spawn, catching me wholely unawares, as I've just left my second string to take care of the pirates (Wolt, Lot, Ward, Chad, Lugh, Thany [who was armory shopping and visiting the South village], Ellen), as my two support triangles and Marcus were off to work on Eric. Quickly I had to retreat and form a singlefile line to eliminate the chance of double-teaming causing an unfortunate death and restart (see attached images of the ~start of the final three turns), and send Alan and Lance back east (they'd already taken care of the archers with a little help from Bors [who I hadn't left to deal with pirates, lol]). It'd been about three turns of back and forth with Eric, Marcus now had more important things to do, like following the other cavs to help save my weak flank, so I tried killing Eric with Rutger, who unfortunately failed, did a little rescue chain perserving support growth (if there were any points left to grow, I may or may not have hit limit) and had Roy finish the job, anticipating I might need to seize ASAP to avoid a death. Next turn saw Thany visit the Shop, and a careful assault on the invading pirates and cavaliers, the end of which still had a decent enough defense line, and I was fairly confident on healths, so I held off with seizing. Last turn was more mop-up killing everyone except the jav cav, but I wasn't about to waste another turn of tactics on him, so had Roy seize.

Misc: At this point Ellen has broken her Heal staff, and half of her Mend staff is gone as well. Rutger now has Dieck's old Iron Sword, so he doesn't have to spam Killing Edge. Marcus is still only about half-way to D axes. Turns taken 15.

Turn Log:

1

2

3

4

5

6 (Rutger arrives)

7 (Bought Iron Lance, Javelin, Iron Sword x2)

8 (Stole Vulnerary off Fighter, Marcus begins weakening Eric with Silver Lance, Thany Visits South Village)

9 (Stole Vulnerary off Archer)

10 (Surprising reinforcements)

11 (Kill Boss)

12 (Bought Fire, Heal Staff x2)

13 (Seize)

(missing two turns somewhere here...)

Current unit status:

Roy:	 06.10 22 07 07 07 08 09 02 (Rapier uses: 7/25) 
Marcus:  02.87 33 09 14 11 10 09 08
Alan:	06.61 26 10 05 09 07 07 00 (Lance <C>)
Lance:   06.56 24 07 08 12 04 06 01 (Alan <C>)
Dieck:   07.40 28 10 13 10 05 07 01
Rutger:  05.29 27 09 14 16 04 06 01
Clarine: 01.77 15 02 05 09 08 02 05
Chad:	05.78 20 04 03 13 08 04 00
Ellen:   06.52 18 04 07 08 10 00 10 
Thany:   04.65 20 05 08 14 07 06 06
Lugh:	04.85 18 05 07 08 05 03 06
Wolt:	04.24 21 05 06 06 03 06 00
Lot:	 05.11 30 07 07 07 03 05 01
Ward:	04.45 30 09 04 06 05 05 00
Bors:	02.31 21 07 05 04 04 12 00
Merlinus: Base

Notes:

Roy seems a little low on speed and luck, but is growing hax defense. (Roy are you channeling Hector?)

Alan has below average skill, but up on str, and spd; this is fine by me!

Lance has yum speed.

Chad is looking a bit below average in str, sk, above in hp, luck. I can get behind that on a thief, though.

The Power Rank is determined by the total Level of all characters. Promoted units count as Level + 20.

Basically, it's like another Experience rank. So you can imagine why they ditched in in FE7 : /

I see. It carries a bit of a penalty on failing to recruit people, though, like Karel would be worth 39, just for recruiting?

Yeah.

With Reikken's estimate of 20 turns per chapter, the enemies 2HKOing your PCs for a long time and your worry about the EXP rank, you may want to take it a little more slowly. Though if you find you have turns leftover, you can always hit the arena (if you're able to do RNG magic, I'm sure you can do this in a risk free way as well).

Sadly arena RNG is well beyond my limited skills, as how it calculates opponent class, level, equiptment, and stats is not well understood, and would require a likely gigantic string of RNs. But yes, I'm taking things a bit more cautiously, and not feeling so bad about not keeping pace with my NM run. I do always send someone to the arena if possible while whittling down the boss and preparing to seize, it's just too convenient a source of money and XP not to.

If you're worried about EXP rank, I would recommend fielding more than one unpromoted healer (which isn't a bad idea anyway with the desert chapter crippling Clarine). Later on, unit spots come in huge amounts, and at some points you just don't want to field those 20/0 characters waiting for their Knight Crest, Guiding Ring or what-have-you, so you can spend spots on people like Cecilia to get it up some more. It really is a shame you can't buy Torch or Barrier staves in this game, because they provide pretty much infinite EXP.

This game also offers a good amount of other units who can boost EXP without dying to a stray leaf falling off a tree. Echidna route Gonzales, Fa, Fir, Miledy even Zeis if you're gutsy.

More healers is a good idea, I think I can get behind that. Ellen was almost one-rounded by a single enemy, this past chapter though, is Saul's durability any better? (Never much used unmounted, unpromoted healers in FE6 before, they usually got the bench.) I fully plan on making at least decent use of Cecilia, Igrene, and maybe even Garret this time around, when the promotion item crunch hits. Also all those unit suggestions are useful, I do like Fa and Miredy and were planning on using them, but I'd got the impression that Fir might be too tough to handle in HM, is that wrong? Zeiss, I haven't yet decided, he's always worked well in NM for me, but does require some babying, and takes Miredy's anti-flier shild. :|

He should get some, but his joining chapter and the next aren't ideal for it, to say the least. Next map has Pirates, but when Chad is attacking them while not on a forest square, he pretty much has to keep his fingers crossed all the time, since they OHKO him. Ch5 is a little nicer, since it has loads of terrain and has lots and lots of axe users. And then he can do a comeback on the Western Isles too.

Great idea, Chad vs Pirates was a go. :)

Ch7 is a huge nightmare that you really cannot really afford to be picky in. I expect you'll be taking longer than 12 turns. The first 5-6 turns are obviously the hardest, but from there you also need to pick up villages, chests (you can buy keys in the shop, I wouldn't field Chad here), and you have a whole bunch of ranged northern reinforcements to take care of, not to mention a group of 4 cavaliers, with the dreaded L17 Silver Lance one in the lead.

Shit, that does not sound like a pleasant thing to look forward to.

You know, you can just look under the data option in the menu for your turn count >.>

Holy crap. This is invaluable! I don't have any way of checking this for the past chapters until the end of the game, as I overwrote all save states save for one at the very beginning of each chapter, for archival purposes, but for the future, this will be most useful. Also this corrected a misjudge of two turns on Ch 4, which I still had a state for, but I'm not sure where exactly the turns were lost. I'll be posted semi-detailed log above, so maybe reinforcement arrival time will help sort things out?

...Speaking of, is there a list of reinforcement arrivals somewhere? They provide nasty surprises and I'd rather not have to be caught unawares in the future if possible.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Balcerzak

[Mekkah]

Sadly arena RNG is well beyond my limited skills, as how it calculates opponent class, level, equiptment, and stats is not well understood, and would require a likely gigantic string of RNs. But yes, I'm taking things a bit more cautiously, and not feeling so bad about not keeping pace with my NM run. I do always send someone to the arena if possible while whittling down the boss and preparing to seize, it's just too convenient a source of money and XP not to.

When I RNG abuse, I usually don't take notes of strings, I usually just save, try what happens on a battle/level-up. And if I don't like it, I just reload, waste an RN, and try again.

Obviously, for the arena, you also have access to the trick of accepting the fight, and when you see the opponent you're not satisfied with (L16 Myrmidon with Silver Sword or something like that), hit reset, then put in someone who would handle the Myrm, or simply visit again, reject the challenge, then visit again and see for the next.

is Saul's durability any better?

Not by a lot, but he doesn't get doubled or OHKOed. Instead, he has more troubles finding supports (Ellen has Lugh, Miledy etc), though they can support each other. Another problem with Saul is that his Luk is terrible, so he may get one-rounded after all if he's unlucky.

but I'd got the impression that Fir might be too tough to handle in HM, is that wrong?

No, she's actually very good. She's fast, and she can take on the huge amounts of axes her joining chapter and the next few throws at her. She joins you with a weapon only she and Rutger can use (lolKarel), which crits pretty much every battle. I wouldn't be against using her as a perm unit, but even as an EXP filler for during the Western Isles she's amazing. 9-10 Str and massive Spd at L1 ftw.

I haven't yet decided, he's always worked well in NM for me, but does require some babying, and takes Miredy's anti-flier shild. :|

He gets HM boosts, most importantly in Str (he has a shot at starting with 20, but usually I had him with ~18). He just has an AS problem, but due to his flierness, he is fairly flexible and might be good at picking off things you couldn't one-round anyway. For Delphi Shield, I'd just keep it on Miledy and let her go and kick some ballista ass if they're there, and let Zeis stay well protected with the group.

Shit, that does not sound like a pleasant thing to look forward to.

Hey, at least after that, you finished the hardest part in the game.

...Speaking of, is there a list of reinforcement arrivals somewhere? They provide nasty surprises and I'd rather not have to be caught unawares in the future if possible.

Not that I know of. FE6 GameFAQs suck.

[Balcerzak]

When I RNG abuse, I usually don't take notes of strings, I usually just save, try what happens on a battle/level-up. And if I don't like it, I just reload, waste an RN, and try again.

Obviously, for the arena, you also have access to the trick of accepting the fight, and when you see the opponent you're not satisfied with (L16 Myrmidon with Silver Sword or something like that), hit reset, then put in someone who would handle the Myrm, or simply visit again, reject the challenge, then visit again and see for the next.

Ahh, yeah. I'm trying to avoid any sort of RNG abuse I couldn't duplicate on a cart. I had a lot of fun with save state abuse in my first NM playthrough, but I felt that just took too much challenge out of the game. Since I do RN abuse to varying extents on my carts, I'm going to limit myself to doing equivalent abuse here.

And yeah, the good old, "Naw, I don't wanna fight that one," trick is one of the best.

[On Saul vs Ellen]

Not by a lot, but he doesn't get doubled or OHKOed. Instead, he has more troubles finding supports (Ellen has Lugh, Miledy etc), though they can support each other. Another problem with Saul is that his Luk is terrible, so he may get one-rounded after all if he's unlucky.

I guess I'll just have to see which of them stacks up better after a bit of equal use. I imagine there'll be more than enough work to go around between healers, what with how things have been going.

[On Fir]

No, she's actually very good. She's fast, and she can take on the huge amounts of axes her joining chapter and the next few throws at her. She joins you with a weapon only she and Rutger can use (lolKarel), which crits pretty much every battle. I wouldn't be against using her as a perm unit, but even as an EXP filler for during the Western Isles she's amazing. 9-10 Str and massive Spd at L1 ftw.

I've always been rather fond of her myself, but either misremembered how awesome her stats were at base level, or underestimated HM boosts. She'll definitely be seeing some play then, at least in the Isles if not longer. It's a shame her (feasible) supports are Noah and Shin, though, as Noah is meh in a field of other great Paladins, and Shin's affinity does little for her.

[On Zeiss]

He gets HM boosts, most importantly in Str (he has a shot at starting with 20, but usually I had him with ~18). He just has an AS problem, but due to his flierness, he is fairly flexible and might be good at picking off things you couldn't one-round anyway. For Delphi Shield, I'd just keep it on Miledy and let her go and kick some ballista ass if they're there, and let Zeis stay well protected with the group.

So noted then. Decent fliers are always useful.

[On the existence of lists of reinforcements]

Not that I know of. FE6 GameFAQs suck.

Grr. Maybe I'll just have to make such a list then. Now that I now about how to find out turn number precisely and easily, it really shouldn't be too bad at all.

I've actually already begun, by loading up my "beginning of chapter" archive saves, and just waiting and ending turns. Here's what I got so far.

Ch1:

Nothing unless it happens past turn 20.

--------------------------------------------

Ch2:

Dieck et. al. arrive on turn 1, act on turn 2.

Nothing unless past turn 20.

--------------------------------------------

Ch3:

Turn 3: Boss room is revealed.

2 Cavaliers begin to appear on turn 3 and act on turn 3. (They spawn in the two squares immediately below the Boss chamber's rightmost wall. Top cav has iron sword, bottom has javelin, both level 1.)

2 Cavs on turn 5, act on turn 5.

2 Cavs on turn 10, act on turn 10.

2 Cavs on turn 15, act on turn 15.

Nothing more unless past turn 25.

--------------------------------------------

Ch4:

Clarine arrives on turn 3, acting on turn 3. (She starts on the square immediately northeast of the northeast corner of Eric's castle.)

Pirates appear on the south islands near the forts on turn 4, acting on turn 4. (Lv 3 with hand axe immediately northwest of the west one, Lv 4 with Iron axe directly on top of the east one.)

More Pirates on turn 6, acting on turn 6.

Rutger's company on turn 6, acting on turn 6. (Rutger arrives three squares east of Eric, his Lv 2 archer north of him. The archer is flanked by the two fighters [Lv 3 and Lv 2, both with Iron axes]; all non-Rutger troops have vulneraries.)

More Pirates on turn 8, acting on turn 8.

More Pirates on turn 10, acting on turn 10.

4 Cavaliers arrive the far east of the map on turn 11, acting on turn 11. (One has a Javelin in addition to Iron Lance [2nd from top], the others have only Iron Lances. They're all Lv 4. They appear in a vertical line at the lower right corner of the cliff-edge going down [2nd tile from right edge of map, 6th tile from top edge].)

Nothing else unless it happens after turn 20.

--------------------------------------------

[Balcerzak]

Chapter 5:

Split forces into two groups:

Lot, Ward, Thany, Marcus, Alan, Lance, Roy, Ellen go North

Lugh, Chad, Wolt, Bors, Dieck, Rutger, Clarine, Merlinus go West, to the gate

North Unit never had any trouble dealing with their share of enemies. Except one incredibly, stupidly over-exposed Ward death on turn 2. Alan and Lance finally got around to making their C supports with Roy, so now I don't have to be as constrained, gluing them immediately beside him. Which is good.

First couple playthroughs South Unit had trouble, lots of it. Either Rutger or Dieck would be taking too much damage (due to mercs + nomads) and eventually it was too much for Clarine to keep up with, or Clarine would get hit with an unlucky OHKO from a bandit hand-axe. Tried fixing the damage problem by using vulneraries, but then wasn't doing enough damage. I finally had bright idea to, at the beginning of the map, when a lot of other equipment trading was going on* to have Ellen trade her mend staff for Clarine's (slightly worn) Heal, pick up a heal from Merlinus as per norm, and then have Clarine take the other Heal from Merlinus.

*(Ellen picking up a heal staff and Iron Sword from Merlinus, Roy took the Iron Sword from Ellen, Merlinus moving to Dieck and giving him that Steel Blade and an Iron Sword, Clarine picking up a heal staff from Merlinus, Lugh picking up a fire tome from Merlinus, Marcus taking Lot's Hand Axe [as the Steel Axe was wearing thin, and no sign of D axes being close].)

Mend Staff gave Clarine the extra oomph needed to catch up. This time I was also smarter about how to deal with the enemies on the choke-hold. Rather than simply ignoring the Bandits standing on the peaks, and focussing on the people on flat ground, I notice Rutger actually had ~68-72% hit on them with an iron sword, so had him chip away at them, which helped cut down on careless thrown axes in Clarine's direction.

I probably should have waited another turn before opening the gate (turn 2 seems to have been too early), because the nomads who were heading towards North Unit turned around and came back to South Unit, but it didn't seem crucial, as they were always too bottlenecked to have everyone attacking at once.

Rutger actually killed the boss on turn 11, but from one of my earlier aborted playthroughs I'd sped through ignoring the death to check for reinforcements, so knew that there'd be four sets of two brigands arriving consequtively on the 12th-15th turns, so decided to lay back, earn more experience, build supports, and let Marcus grind out some additional axe practice (2x Hand-axing the southern one left it with 4-8 hp, so Roy or Chad could kill it).

The northern bandit was trickier as it came with a hand-axe, and only Lance could double attack it, but still managed to do decently and kill them all without wasting any additional turns.

Roy then seized on turn 16 immediately after the last batch were killed.

Chapter 6

First with a Battle Preparations screen, thank goodness, so I could finally bench the terrible units and do my trading prior to the chapter starting.

The units I used were, as well as the general groups I had form at the start of the chapter (though things quickly became much more fluid):

Thany, Marcus, Chad, Lugh go left; Dorothy, Rutger, Clarine, Dieck go right; Lance, Alan, Roy, Saul take middle.

I had Ellen sit this one out, as she was already level 7, and I knew Saul would be coming, and three healers seemed a little excessive, and figured I needed another fighting unit, so Thany got the nod for final spot.

This was not a difficult chapter. First time through Dorothy died on turn 2 because I was extra dumb, so I used that worthless playthrough to open doors, figure out the lay of the land, and know when the reinforcements were coming. Foreknowledge for the win.

Chad opens the lower-left door on turn 2, by turn three the corridor forces have all been annihilated, and by turn four the middle forces have been wiped clean. That leaves the Throne Room forces, the hidden room forces, and the reinforcements, which actually will be more than enough to keep me busy. On turn 5 Cass appears, I like to use Cass to help open doors, so I shunt her to the RHS, by making sure the LHS is blocked off to her. On turn 6 she opens the lower-right door to the empty room (where reinforcements will eventually arrive).

On turn 7 Chad opens the Door to Sue's room. Lance or Alan have been carrying Roy over there, the other, Marcus, Thany, and Lugh polished off the reinforcements. Roy recruits Sue on turn eight, and she grabs Wolt's old bow that he'd brought to her. Since the middle two rooms on the RHS contain chests, and Chad isn't close enough to steal Cass' lockpick, I have Dieck and Rutger block them, so she goes and opens the upper right room instead, freeing some enemies for them to fight. At around this time, Lance and Alan and Sue (from the back lines) are dealing with the throne room forces.

Chad makes it over to Cass and steals her vulnerary, I've removed the blockade, so Cass proceeds to open the door to the middle upperright. The following turn sees her lockpick promptly stolen by Chad, and Roy goes to speak with her soon after, but then her AI gets mildly confused and she takes several turns to find a suitable exit, occasionally getting in my path and making maneuvering a little more difficult than I'd have liked. Since the time delay reinforcements now appear in the lower right, Marcus, Rutger, Dieck get to play with them, while Lugh, Thany, Sue clean up what's left of the upper right room's force. (I think, some of my memory of this is a little shaky.)

As far as the throne room area, the Archers who'd been there since the turn 8 reinforce nearly killed Lance, but were just shy of it; Saul was at the ready with a mend. I don't quite remember who dealt with the Mage & Soldier group at around turn 12, probably Lance, Alan, Sue, Lugh. The turn 13 entrance way group split up, some of them went to the RHS to get owned by Dieck and Rutger, the rest came up the middle, where Lance, Alan, Thany were waiting for them. Marcus started bashing on the Armor Knights around this time, and Lance <B> Alan occured, followed quickly by Rutger <C> Clarine.

Chad continues carrying on a full-time looting duty. When I saw he was wrapping up on the RHS, and since there was still the room in the upper left to worry about I got Sue and Thany in position to chain carry him across the map. This was around the time the final throne room reinforcements were being dealt with by my entire army.

Rutger and Dieck team up on Wagner, and he goes down in two rounds giving Rutger one of the most amazing levels I've every seen, while Lugh finally having nothing better to do gets around to actually having that C support convo with Chad that I noticed was available earlier, but needed enemies to die instead. Slight rescue shuffle using Marcus and Saul to move Chad the one extra square he needed to make it to the chest, as Lance, Alan, Dorothy, Thany make short work of the troops in the upper left.

Throne seized on turn 22. All enemies defeated, all treasures looted (except for the copious enemy vulneraries :(). Hopefully this was done decently fast enough. Without a second full time thief, I'm not sure how else to improve, except maybe having realized that there was an unlock stave in one of the chests (I'd only scoped out their locations on the aborted runthrough, and not their contents), and trying to clear that room sooner, which would have come with its own difficulties.

Current Units Stats:

Roy	 7.78  22 08 07 07 09 09 03 Alan C, Lance C
Marcus  4.10  35 09 14 13 11 09 09
Alan	9.81  29 11 07 10 07 09 00 Lance B, Roy C
Lance  10.43  28 09 10 16 07 09 01 Alan B, Roy C
Dieck   9.91  29 10 14 11 06 07 01
Chad	7.30  22 04 03 14 08 05 00 Lugh C
Lugh	8.51  20 06 10 09 07 03 08 Chad C
Clarine 5.21  16 03 08 11 11 02 05 Rutger C
Rutger  9.72  30 12 18 18 05 08 02 Clarine C
Thany   8.38  23 06 11 16 10 07 06
Ellen   7.55  18 05 07 09 10 00 11
Saul	7.14  22 04 07 11 02 02 05
Dorothy 6.00  20 07 08 07 04 04 03
Sue	 4.08  19 05 10 09 06 05 00
Bors	2.88  21 07 05 04 04 12 00
Wolt	4.47  21 05 06 06 03 06 00
Ward	5.92  31 10 04 06 05 05 00
Lot	 6.02  31 07 07 07 03 06 01
Merlinus

Comments:

Roy is still low on speed and skill, but his defenses above normal. Acceptable.

Marcus is doing quite well for himself with that extra speed. Too bad for him that Lance is now pwning him almost completely. At least he's got his weapon levels to give him the edge, right? Go D Axes, A Lances! Looking ahead, he seems about tied with Zealot (with some skill edge). Not sure who to use for Jeigan after this point...

Alan is above average in every stat (~except perhaps, skill and res, but those are off at the level of rounding error). Normally this would make him awesome. But as previously mentioned...

Lance is a fucking god. His speed is insane letting him double everything. Granted, his strength is still below Alan's, but it's Marcus level, which is good enough. Easy contender for team MVP.

Dieck is decidedly average. Which isn't bad, just average.

Chad has caught a minor case of the suck. We'll have to see whether or not it's bad enough to give Ashtol the endgame thieving or not. Luckily his durability is still close to par, which I guess I should be thankful for.

Lugh is doing alright I guess, but I must admit I'm not impressed by his damage output. This must be why I always replace him with Lilina.

Clarine is coming in average. I think this is the quickest I've got her support with Rutger, so that should help a ton in Ch 7 from javelins, wyverns, and archers oh my!

Rutger is exceeding expectations. His boss-killing utility is undeniable, actually having enough skill to bypass much of that throne avoid bonus, allowing me to dispatch them quicker than on any previous playthrough by orders of magnitude. Sadly it will plateau soon.

Thany is coming out slightly above average, but that's not saying much. Less suck is better than more suck though, and she's taking my to Ilia, so I can't complain.

Ellen and Saul are too close to call. Saul's got HP, Speed, and Def advantage, but Ellen has Luck and Res. I think the difference adds up to Ellen 4 Avo and 6 Res, vs Saul 4 HP, 2 Def in terms of Battle stats. I have a hard time seeing 4 avoid being the deciding factor, so Saul will probably end up superior.

Dorothy is mostly average, but performing better than I ever remember her doing before. Sadly not enough output to OHKO any of these upcoming Wyvern Riders, unless I misjudge.

Sue is meh, nothing special either way. Only levelled her to help out with XP (can't shake a stick at 48 per kill when the mainstream is getting 13-18). It won't be enough to tip the scales to Sacae, and maybe it will be enough to help her live to recruit Shin? She's probably not getting anymore than this in the chapters to come, so it'll have to do I guess.

Bors, Wolt, Ward, Lot, all I can say is I hope you enjoy riding the pine, because you're all my top choices to play "left out". Even if none of you were terribly screwed, stat-wise, you're just too much fail for me to deal with when I have gods among men to be using.

==========

Chapter 7:

Tentative team:

Roy, Marcus, Alan, Lance, Dieck, Chad, Lugh, Clarine, Rutger, Thany, Ellen, Saul, Dorothy

This looks like a painful chapter. At least it has Stores and Armories, as I'm desperately low on equipment (heal staves, fire tomes, being most crucial deficiencies, but I would feel _lot_ more comfortable with a few more iron swords and lances under my belt, another Killing Edge would be nice too [wishful thinking, I know], Rutger's had to burn more of that than I'd have liked so far... I think he has like 8 left.)

First playthrough I tried having Dorothy kill the wyvern, it was not enough, and she didn't dodge its ~50-60 Hit, and it did just enough damage to OHKO her. It wasn't a big loss as Treck over there was doing everything in his power to commit suicide (and succeeded, same enemy phase as Dorothy's unfortunate fate, in fact). Noah is much friendlier to recruit than I remembered, but sadly can't quite reach Zealot (or does Roy have to, I'm always a little hazy on that). I'm bringing all three healers because I don't want to bring fail units, but maybe having Sue be an extra bow against wyverns would help. Maybe. Chad might not get much in the way of thiefing action, but he'll at least try to be around to snag that Red Gem, maybe lift a vulnerary or two, and get those chests. If he proves to be too frail, I suppose Lot might have to replace him, but I'll avoid that if possible (I know you said you wouldn't field him Mekkah, and that keys can get the job done, but I want to at least try otherwise for a couple times at least).

I anticipate this taking me much of the weekend to get it right. Hopefully that's a pessimistic outlook.

Request for comments/criticism/advice:

Roy's level: Should I be growing him faster/slower, or is he just about right?

Jeiganing?: Zealot vs Marcus vs Lance, any thoughts?

Levels in general: The low XP I'm getting from kills is a little dispiriting. I don't really see how Lance/Alan/Dieck/Rutger are too overleveled, as they're pretty much vital to successfully dealing with enemies, but maybe I'm wrong. Should I be doing a little more rotation, letting others claim some more of the pie? (Most probably candidate being Noah when he arrives, or Thany, though she was a little on the low side of received XP too, depending on the enemy. Maybe Dorothy, but it's hard for her to get much action, locked to bows. Depending on the feedback to question number one Roy maybe, but I don't want him capping too soon if he doesn't have to.)

Other: Anything else that comes to mind.

Appendix:

--------------------------------------------

Ch5:

Upon opening the gate (by having a unit end their turn next door): 2 nomads (Lv3 iron bow, Lv4 steel bow), 2 mercenaries (Lv 4 steel sword) come out from the castle

Bandit Reinforcements on turn 12, left forts: Lv 6 Steel axe from South, Lv 5 Iron/Hand from north)

More Bandits on turn 13

More Bandits on turn 14

More Bandits on turn 15

No more reinforcements unless they occur after turn 25

--------------------------------------------

Ch6

Rooms:

lower-left empty (two turn delay reinforcements: Lv 6 Knight Steel Lance, Lv 5 Archer Steel Bow, Lv 9 Soldier Iron Lance, Lv 9 Soldier Javelin),

middle lower-left (contains two chests: bottom 3000 gold, top 5000 gold),

middle upper-left (contains Sue),

upper-left (contains chest Unlock Staff, Lv 5 Mage Thunder [upperleft], Lv 5 Knight Iron Lance vulnerary [upperright], Lv 9 Soldier Iron Lance [lowerleft], Lv 8 Soldier Javelin [lowerright])

lower-right empty (four turn delay reinforcements: Lv 6 Knight Steel Lance [upperleft], Lv 5 Archer Steel Bow [upperright], Lv 9 Soldier Iron Lance [lowerright], Lv 9 Soldier Javelin [lowerleft]),

middle lower-right (contains two chests: lower silver lance, upper 2000 gold),

middle upper-right (contains three chests: upper Short Bow, right Goddess Icon, lower Killer Axe),

upper-right (contains Lv 4 Mage Fire [upperright], Lv 5 Knight Iron Lance vulnerary [upperleft], Lv 9 Soldier Iron Lance [lowerright], Lv 8 Soldier Javelin [lowerleft])

Reinforcements:

Cass on turn 5 (standing in lowerleft corner wall of lower right building)

Throne squad on turn 8: 2 Archers to the left of the throne (Lv 4 Iron bow on the right, Lv 5 Steel bow on the left), 2 Soldiers to the right of the throne (Lv 9 Javelin on the left, Lv 9 Iron Lance on the right)

Throne squad on turn 12: 2 Mages to the left of the throne (Lv 4 Mage Thunder on the right, Lv 4 Mage Fire on the left), 2 Soldiers to the right of the throne (Lv 9 Javelin on the left, Lv 9 Iron Lance on the right)

Entrance squad on turn 13: Archer Lv 4 Steel Bow [bottomleft], Soldier Lv 8 Iron Lance [upperleft], Knight Lv 5 Steel Lance [bottomcenter], Mage Lv 3 Fire [uppercenter], Soldier Lv 8 Javelin [bottomright], Soldier Lv 8 Iron Lance [upperright]

Throne squad on turn 16: 2 Knights to the left of the throne (Lv 5 Steel Lance on the left, Lv 4 Steel Lance/Javelin on the right), 2 Soldiers to the right of the throne (Lv 9 Javelin on the left, Lv 9 Iron Lance on the right)

No more reinforcements, unless beyond turn 30

--------------------------------------------

Ch7:

Treck and Zealot arrive on turn 1, act on turn 2

Noah arrives on turn 2, acts on turn 3, acts on turn 4

(Going to use failed playthrough to finish investigating other arrivals, but haven't yet: gave up and went to sleep last night.)

NB: Some of the levels or weapons on the reinforcements in Ch6 may be screwed up, or dependant on opening order. e.g. bottom-left right bottom-right may have roles reversed depending on which was opened first, and similar with upper-left and upper right. I did not do extensive testing. Also, since reinforcements move before you have a chance to inspect them, I may have gotten confused occasionally on which unit of which group carried which weapon. Strictly user beware.

[Mekkah]

Roy's level: Should I be growing him faster/slower, or is he just about right?

He has forever, and he has supports and Rapier, so it doesn't matter much. Doing it now whenever convenient is prolly the best. No need to keep him up 100%, he can get in his last few levels if needed for EXP rank.

Jeiganing?: Zealot vs Marcus vs Lance, any thoughts?

All three if they're the best. I'd recommend using both in Ch8 at least, since it has huge gaps of nothingness, and if nothing else they can carry others around. I usually stop fielding the Paladins after the Echidna chapter, where I just use them to be an extra sword buddy against those mass HP axers, as well as Roy-carries and huge-HP-wall-breakers.

Levels in general: The low XP I'm getting from kills is a little dispiriting. I don't really see how Lance/Alan/Dieck/Rutger are too overleveled, as they're pretty much vital to successfully dealing with enemies, but maybe I'm wrong. Should I be doing a little more rotation, letting others claim some more of the pie? (Most probably candidate being Noah when he arrives, or Thany, though she was a little on the low side of received XP too, depending on the enemy. Maybe Dorothy, but it's hard for her to get much action, locked to bows. Depending on the feedback to question number one Roy maybe, but I don't want him capping too soon if he doesn't have to.)

Ch7 is obviously not the time to worry about such mortal matters as EXP rank. Western Isles have a more perfect layout for that, as well as 8x. Somewhat low enemy density, with low Spd, many with axes, and often walls and chokepoints to hide behind. Ideal for all these low leveled ranged and sword dudes you get to pick on random things (Oujay, Ashtol, Chad, Fir, Shin, Sue, Dorothy, need I go on?). And enough unit spots too, I think. Oh, and obviously Lalum and your multi-healer fielding will help out.

Other: Anything else that comes to mind.

Watch your peggie/nomad level. I don't know if using Shin for EXP rank is worth copping with Tate, but it's up to you to find out.

You get another KE in a Ch7 village, so Rutger will be fine.

Because of the Red Gem, using Chad in Ch7 may not be a bad idea after all.

If you want to get your combat rank a boost and/or make battling generally easier, you can use your first Hero Crest on Rutger before he hits 20...after he caps Spd and Skl he gains little other than HP anyway. I know you're para about EXP rank though, so try to weigh the difference between the EXP gain of unpromoted and promoted Rutger against the combat benefits.

Oh yeah, in Ch8, either get Oujay to trade his Armorslayer to one of your throne rushers, or bring the one from the Ch2 village. Leygance is going to act unpretty if you don't. The Ch7 boss is annoying without it too, but you knew that.

I usually have some trouble deciding what to put in Marcus' inventory in Ch7, wishing he had like 8 slots. Halberd, Hammer, Silver Lance, Javelin, Hand Axe is what I usually end up using, I believe. I'm sure you're aware with the rescue chain that gets you Treck and Zealot recruited quickly?

[Balcerzak]

Okay, I'm trying things a little differently this time. This post has three major segments, the first is (as always) the boring chapter description summaries, etc. that people may or may not even care to be reading. This time, I'd taken to actually diligently recording events as they happen, which I think I'm finding to actually force me to be a better tactician, as I write out my plans, double think them, act on them, record the results, turn by turn. The summaries may be harder to read than the general paragraph summaries of before, so if you do read them and you don't like the change, tell me which you'd prefer to be seeing here in the future. I've tried to include a few more screen exports when I thought they'd be illustrative to the general situation as well. Then there will follow a brief analysis on XP earned as a function of time for all of the characters, done mostly for my own benefit, but perhaps of greater interest. Finally, I've engaged in a little personal Saul vs Ellen pseudo-debate. Without further ado, lets get on with it.

Chapter 7:

Team:

Roy, Marcus, Alan, Lance, Dieck, Chad, Lugh, Clarine, Rutger, Thany, Ellen, Saul, Dorothy

Turn 1) Inspired by Mekkah's allusion to a rescue chain, and in light of being reminded to bring along the Hammer just in case, I rearranged some things from how I'd initially approached the map.

Marcus rescues Roy, brings him his full 8 move to the corner of one of the house blocks, Lance moves his full 7 just north of Marcus, Takes and Releases Roy into the corridor, Alan moves his full 7 and parks next to Marcus.

Dieck moves all five diagonally next to the northwest Armor Knight. Rutger moves to his west, borrows the Armorslayer to ORKO it, Priscilla and Lugh stand on the forests next to them, Chad close by, followed by Thany and Dorothy, and Saul and Ellen grab a forest to stand on.

(Amusingly enough, the first enemy turn was awesome. Loldier misses a tossed Javelin at Roy, Armor knight attacks Alan and misses, but Alan crits on his second counter KO-ing it, Merc attacks Lance and misses, and Lance crits on his first counter KO-ing it)

Turn 2) I appeared to have misjudged which row of houses Zealot and Treck appear in. No matter, I was still close enough.

Roy->Zealot, Zealot->Treck (move again to a cozy forest), Treck Rescue Roy (move again near Zealot), Marcus moves, takes, releases and moves again next to Rutger and Dieck, to help Halberd some Cavs next turn. Thany visits SouthWest Village, as her presence doesn't seem to be needed elsewhere. Alan and Lance press eastward slightly.

Turn 3)

Rutger had countered the W Rider to the point where Dorothy was one damage shy of a OHKO, so I had Treck toss a Javelin at it, which was just what the doctor ordered. Since it looked like Rutger and Dieck could pretty well bottleneck up the Upperleft, I had Marcus divert back to the Cav on the RHS, so that Lugh (takes Marcus' Silver Lance) and Zealot (takes Silver from Lugh) could team up on that w Rider, leaving it at 1 HP for Noah to finish off.

Thany visits the Upper Left village, and ducks out of the range of the Archer on the move again. Lance and Alan continue to harrass the enemies on the right, ending the turn with Javelins equipped to feed archers a taste of their own medicine (hoping they hit).

Turn 4) Marcus goes around the back of the arena, kills a Cav, Dieck and Rutger chip away at the others. Treck (fully healed) goes to help out. Zealot and Noah take down the armor knight. Lance kills Archer, Saul mends Alan, who puts himself in range of new archers (with his Javelin ready). Thany, Lugh, and Dorothy take down the Archer that settled on the forest near the arena.

Don't quite know what to do with Roy and Chad... Roy went to the Arena and destroyed a Pirate (710g). Chad positioned himself closer to where I expect the Red Gem W Rider will try to approach.

Turn 5)

Dieck, Lugh, Dorothy, Treck take out the last Cav. Marcus Hammers the Armor Knight, and the upper-left is now devoid of enemies! Thany+Noah destroy a mage. Lance and Alan clear the Southeast of Archers (ony thing left is a damaged Armor Knight, which as it turns out suicides itself on enemy phase). Chad stands on a forest in range of the Red Gem W Rider, Zealot is nearby for when trouble happens, and Roy hopes for another Pirate. As it turns out a Brigand was fine too (750g). :3

Turn 6) Bait and Steal successful! Zealot + Marcus + Noah + Treck = dead W Rider. Roy vs Brigand II (890g). Thany weakens Elfire Mage, Lance and Roy go visit some villages. Rutger Triangle makes its way northish, Ellen visits the shop (Heal Staff x4, Fire x2, Thunder x2).

Turn 7) Alan, Lance, and Saul visit villages, Chad steals a physic priest's vulnerary. Thany and Treck kill Elfire mage. Dorothy wounds physic priest. Clarine Unlock Staves double doors. Roy battles in the arena against a soldier (840g). Marcus heads down to rescue/carry Roy, Zealot starts heading to the boss.

Turn 8) Chad steals other vulnerary, after Dorothy took the red gem, giving him more inventory room, and shot the old one. Treck finishes the old one, while Noah takes the fresh one. Rutger/Dieck/Clarine continue their advance toward the throne. Zealot parks himself in front of it with his Silver Lance to hopefully hit once on the counter. Roy vs Fighter in the Arena (920g). Marcus grabs him and heads northward. Thany visits the left Armory (Hand Axe x3, Iron Axe x1, Iron Sword x4). Throne Room reinforcements appear (one of the Soldiers impales itself on Zealot's Silver Lance, the others head for Dietgarine.)

Turn 9) Dieck and Rutger kill the mages, Lugh and Treck take out an Archer, Ellen heals Clarine. Lance and Allen finish up with the villages in the SouthEast, Saul finishes healing them, they'll soon get ready for the upcoming Southern reinforcements, Noah will try to help. Thany visits the other Armory (Iron Lance x4, Javelin x3). Marcus drops Roy off a little south of the gate. Will meet up with the other Cavs to deal with the Southward threat. (Two more Soldiers impale themselves on Zealot, the third survived due to his weapon breaking mid-double). (Warning about southern reinforcements)

Turn 10) Chad Unlocks RHS door. Zealot retreats, gets mended by Clarine (conveniently placed out of spear range but inside support range to help Rutger as much as she can) Rutger kills boss on the counter with an armorslayer critical, negating the reinforcements from arriving. :o

Turn 11) Chad opens right hand chest (Barrier Stave), Marcus fights in the Arena (Falcoknight 720g). Roy can't quite reach the throne, but I wouldn't want to seize at this point anyway. Clarine and Ellen do some healing.

Turn 12) Chad opens left hand chest (Rapier), Marcus vs Druid (730g), Lance Rescues Marcus and move away, Noah vs Brigand (870g), Alan rescues Noah and moves away, Thany vs Mage (700g). Last bit o' healing. Seize.

--------------------------------------------

Appendix for Ch7:

Treck and Zealot arrive on turn 1, act on turn 2

Noah arrives on turn 2, acts on turn 3, acts on turn 4

*Approach the Throne reinforcements: Soldier Lv 11 Steel Lance, Soldier Lv 11 Steel Lance/Javelin, Archer Lv 9 Steel Bow, Mage Lv 7 Elfire, Mage Lv 7 Thunder, Archer Lv 7 Steel Bow, Soldier Lv 11 Steel Lance/Javelin, Soldier Lv 11 Steel Lance

On turn 10 Southern Reinforcements: Cav Lv 7 Iron Lance/Javelin, Cav Lv 15 Silver Lance, Cav Lv 5 Steel Lance, Cav Lv 5 Steel Lance

On turn 15 Southern Reinforcements: Cav Lv 7 Iron Lance/Javelin, Cav Lv 15 Silver Lance, Cav Lv 5 Steel Lance, Cav Lv 5 Steel Lance

On turn 20 Southern Reinforcements: Cav Lv 7 Iron Lance/Javelin, Cav Lv 15 Silver Lance, Cav Lv 5 Steel Lance, Cav Lv 5 Steel Lance

No further reinforcements unless after turn 25

--------------------------------------------

Chapter 8

Team: Roy, Marcus, Alan, Lance, Noah, Clarine, Rutger, Dieck, Chad, Lugh, Ellen, Saul, Astohl

Turn 1) Put Noah (w Javelin) in range of Archer, Lilina out of range. Made a line of the other cavs, advanced in general

Turn 2) Chad and Lugh kill the wounded soldiers, Astohl steals Archer's vulnerary. Marcus weakens Archer, Noah kills. Lance double archer across the wall.

Turn 3) Lance moves up, tosses javelin to wound oncoming soldier, Noah finishes him. Alan kill Archer across the wall. Marcus tenderizes Door Key soldier, Astohl steals key, Luch finishes soldier. Rest of party advances.

Turn 4) Chad steals vulnerary from mage, Lugh weakens Armor Knight. Noah kills Armor knight, Dieck wounds mage, Roy kills mage. Clarine achieves C staff. Marcus lures Armor knight.

Turn 5) Chad steals Armor knight's vulnerary, Astohl steals its chest key, Lugh kills it. Marcus, Noah, Alan, Lance kill two soldiers. Clarine begins Barrier Staff spamming.

Turn 6) Chad steals Archer's vulnerary, Dieck and Noah kill Archer. Units advance (Alan Lance rescue/release Astohl, Marcus carries Roy.) Wendy breaks the 10HP Wall, Barth move out to tank.

Turn 7) Barth, OJ, Wendy kill a soldier. Astohl steals Archer's vulnerary, Alan ORKOs Archer. Units advance.

Turn 8) Alan, Astohl, OJ kill archer. Units advance.

Turn 9) Units advance, Marcus uses door key, and hides in the chests room. Barth takes all of Astohl's excess inventory.

Turn 10) Heals, Astohl steals a vulnerary, Lance and Noah kill the mage, units advance, Marcus begins opening chests.

Turn 11) Noah kills wounded Armor knight, Marcus wounds Archer, Chad kills Archer. Lance was supposed to wound the mage, but criticalled with his iron sword.

Turn 12) Mounted Units go along the bottom, Unmounted units pile up in the chest room, Chests are all opened, but since the door is still locked the enemy thieves will still be attracted to it.

Turn 13)

Turn 14) Lance/Alan seal off the thieves' retreat routes. Astohl steals Cass' vulnerary, gets rescue chained, Roy talks to Cass, Units advance.

Turn 15) Marcus blocks escape route above Lilina's cell. Noah baits Killer Lance Armor, Units advance.

Turn 16) Chad steals enemy thief lockpick, Lugh wounds enemy thief, Wendy rescues Chad, OJ kills enemy thief, Barth takes/Releases Chad. Alan wounds Killer Lance Armor, Astohl steals its chest key, Lilina kills it (53 XP, yum), Units advance.

Turn 17) Lance doubles Merc reinforcement leaving it with 2HP, Lilina finishes. Noah ORKOs Elfire Mage

Turn 18) Astol and Dieck kill Archer. Lance wounds Merc. Lilina finishes.

Turn 19) Noah weakens Archer, Lilina snipes and finishes. Dietgarine place themselves at the chokepoint for oncoming loldiers.

Turn 20) Noah kills Archer that had attacked Lilina, Dieck ORKOs Loldier in from of him, Astohl destroys the one that Rutger wounded. Marcus goes around to attack top reinforcement from the rear.

Turn 21) Alan destroys some Loldier, Dieck kills wounded Aircaliber mage, Astol steals vulnerary, Noah rescues, Rutger armorslays.

Turn 22) Changed plans, Chad and OJ got a some kills, Barth&Wendy rescue chained OJ to the back line to get healed. Astohl steals another vulnerary, Rescued by Dieck, Rutger armorslays. Lance Attacks Armor Knight just south of the throne.

Turn 23) Last vulnerary stolen. Alan wounds Elfire mage, Lilina kills. OJ poises to cleanup on Marcus-wounded loldiers. Noah carries Astohl over towards the chests.

Turn 24) North-segment retreats, heals and prepares for next wave, south segment has Dieck and Rutger approach the throne as far as they can. Noah drops off Astohl.

Turn 25) North-segment kills more, heals some, Marcus helps. Lilina plinks Leygance for a conversation and a point, Rutger sits below and prepares to counter with the armorslayer.

Turn 26) OJ, Wendy get kills in the north group, Lilina plinks Leygance for 1 damage and a level, Roy moves closer, Ashtol keeps looting the chests, Rutger finishes Leygance, gets 100XP despite his high level :o, not only gets 1 HP, but also 1 Str, however Sk and Sp were already maxed. Do some level-up healing.

Turn 27) Wendy kills the wounded archer. Ellen heals north group, Astohl loots.

Turn 28) Astohl loots, Seize.

--------------------------------------------

Appendix for Ch8:

On turn 5, Barth, Wendy, OJ arrive

On turn 10 Cass arrives at right stairwell, as does enemy thief Lv 6 on the left one

On turn 15 in Barth tunnel: Soldier Lv 11 Iron Lance, Merc Lv 10 Steel Sword, Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow

On turn 16 in Barth tunnel: Soldier Lv 11 Iron Lance, Merc Lv 10 Steel Sword, Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow; At the left edge of the map Soldier Lv 10 Steel Lance, bottom Soldier Lv 11 Steel Lance/Javelin; Left Stairwell Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow, Right Stairwell Merc Lv 9 Iron Sword

On turn 17 in Barth tunnel: Soldier Lv 11 Iron Lance, Merc Lv 10 Steel Sword, Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow; At the left edge of the map Soldier Lv 10 Steel Lance, bottom Soldier Lv 11 Steel Lance/Javelin; Left Stairwell Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow, Right Stairwell Merc Lv 9 Iron Sword

On turn 18 in Barth tunnel: Soldier Lv 11 Iron Lance, Merc Lv 10 Armorslayer, Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow; At the left edge of the map Soldier Lv 10 Steel Lance, bottom Armor Knight Lv 11 Steel Lance/Javelin/Vulnerary; Left Stairwell Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow, Right Stairwell Merc Lv 9 Iron Sword

On turn 19 in Barth tunnel: Soldier Lv 11 Iron Lance, Merc Lv 10 Armorslayer, Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow; At the left edge of the map Soldier Lv 10 Steel Lance, bottom Armor Knight Lv 11 Steel Lance/Javelin/Vulnerary; Left Stairwell Archer Lv 8 Steel Bow, Right Stairwell Merc Lv 9 Iron Sword

No further reinforcements unless after turn 30

--------------------------------------------

Chapter 8x

Team: Roy, Chad, Astohl, Lilina, Thany, Treck, Ellen, Dieck, Rutger, Clarine

The enemies here have levels that look incredibly weak, time to send in the second string (Thany, Treck) to actually gain some XP. Field both thieves due to omg so many vulneraries.

Turn 1) Set up some defensive lines

Turn 2) Lilina scores a kill, Chad steals a key, Roy gets a kill (Treck gets enemy phase kill)

Turn 3) Astohl steals vulnerary. Thany further weakens Myrmidon, Lilina kills it. Treck switches to swords for WTA, Ellen heals Astohl. Dieck weakens enemy gets level up with speed (about time!), Chad kills it, breaking his 1 use sword, Clarine Barriers Dieck who's in line of fire of thunder mage.

Turn 4) Treck and Lilina take down the Halberd Fighter. Astohl and Thany weaken others. Mage hadn't taken the bait last time so advance. Chad wounds Fighter.

Turn 5) Chad steals Mage's Vulnerary, Dieck kills mage, Rutger positions to bait Merc, as does Clarine, Roy further wounds Fighter. Lilina and co get more kills

Turn 6) Treck and Lilina kill final Mage, Astohl starts booking it back to the other group, Thany grabs Lilina and does the same. Dieck ORKOs a Fighter, Rutger weakens the other Merc

Turn 7) Rutger ORKOs Archer. Units advance

Turn 8) Units advance, Roy harrasses Hand Axe Figher, Chad dumps excess inventory on Dieck.

Turn 9) Units advance, Chad steals vulnerary, Roy continues harrassing Fighter, Thany dumps Lilina on corner outcropping.

Turn 10) Thany + Lilina take down ex-vulnerary Merc, Roy takes down Fighter, Rutger <B> Clarine

Turn 11) Chad steals Elfire Mage's vulnerary, Thany + Lilina take it down, Dieck and Rutger deal with Fighters.

Turn 12) Advance, heal, and prepare for next targets

Turn 13) Astohl steals K. Edge Merc's vulnerary, Rutger doubles him down to 7 hp, Lilina finishes him. Chad steals Mage's vulnerary, Clarine Rescues him, Thany and Treck take out archer, Dieck takes out mage.

Turn 14) Thany + Lilina take out myrmidon, healing and advancing.

Turn 15) Healing and advancing

Turn 16) Chad steals Aircalibur's mage's vulnerary, Rutger smashes the mage, advancing and healing

Turn 17) Treck and Lilina kill the Fighters that had attacked Chad. Rutger attempts to Killing Edge Boss.

Turn 18) Rutger managed to take Boss down to 6/38, not bad! Now to finish him! Seized.

--------------------------------------------

Appendix for Ch8x:

No reinforcements unless after turn 25

--------------------------------------------

Chapter 9:

Team:

Roy, Dieck, Rutger, Clarine, Alan, Lance, Chad, Astohl, Lilina, Thany, Noah, Sue, Saul

Both thieves for hax vision in fog, Noah and Sue for recruitments, Thany for hax flying, Saul to catch up to Ellen.

Turn 1) Chad takes point, Units advance in support formations.

Turn 2) Lilina kill wounded pirate after Astohl steals its vulnerary. Noah + Chad kill other pirate. Units advance in support formations Dieck <C> Rutger

Turn 3) Chad steals Archer's Antitoxin, Noah + Sue kill Fighter. Astohl places himself to prevent damage to Sue, units advance in support formation. Thany places herself in range of Thunder mage or Hand Axe Pirate from over the mountain, with Javelin equipped.

Turn 4) Astohl steals Merc's Antitoxin Lilina + Sue finish him. Dieck ORKOs Archer, advance in support formation.

Turn 5) Chad + Noah kill Pirate, Lance javelin criticals the Merc. Dieck <C> Clarine. Thany Javelin harrasses Pirate across the mountains, levels up with Strength! Lilina <C> Ashtol

Turn 6) Noah recruits Fir on the bridge, move agains back to the center island. Fir moves, takes Noah's extra Iron Sword and finishes a Poison Axe Pirate. (57 XP yum!). Units advance, etc. See screenshots

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/jpurdham/Ch9Turn6B.png http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/jpurdham/Ch9Turn6C.png

Turn 7) Fir finishes Pirate that attacked her last phase. Lance doubles Pirate to 2 HP, Sue Long Bows it. Dieck doubles Archer to within Lilina's finishing range. Alan Javelins lower archer.

Turn 8) Sue recruits Shin on the bridge. Shin + Fir kill Fighter. Dieck and Thany kill Pirate, Advancing, splitting into groups. Top Group: Fir, Sue, Shin, Alan, Lance, Saul, Roy; Bottom Group: Ashtol, Lilina, Thany, Dietgarine.

Turn 9) Units advance.

Turn 10) Alan and Shin wound an Archer, Lance and Noah kill another. Astohl kills a Pirate, Thany and Lilina kill a mage. Units advance.

Turn 11) Chad steals Elfire Mage's Vulnerary, then S

hin and Roy kill him, Sue kills the wounded archer. Lance and Roy kill a Fighter.

Turn 12) Lilina kills a Pirate, Astohl moves back center. Thany visits southwest village. Dietgarine move northward in the vaugh general direction of the boss. Cavalier trio continues to invade the NorthEast, Lance ORKOing an Archer, Noah doubling another, Sue finishing him. Chad move back southward in preparation for the onslaught of Pirate reinforcements, joining Fir.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/jpurdham/Ch9Turn12B.png http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/jpurdham/Ch9Turn12C.png

Turn 13) Fir doubles, killing the Pirate that attacked her when it spawned. Dieck criticals an Archer, Thany attacks the Merc for WTA, and soaking the Mage behind him. Lilina and Ashtol move more central. Sue visits NW village, Alan <A> Lance, and shopping (2x Fire, 3x Heal). Noah heads back towards Fir.

Turn 14) Lilina and Chad kill wounded Pirates in center, Fir Wo Dao's Pirate she was too slow to double, Noah switches her back to Iron. Sue goes shopping (Iron Blade for Dieck, 2x Iron Sword, Iron Axe and Steel Axe for Gonzo), Shin sits on forest and harasses Merc in the NW. Dieck ORKOs Pirate, Thany wounds Merc.

Turn 15) Dieck ORKOs Mage, Rutgarine and Thany advance in formation. Chad, Ashtol, Lilina clean up on Pirates, as does Fir. Shin, Roy, Alan take out that NW Merc. Nothing left but Boss and reinforcements, at this point.

Turn 16) Dietgarine advance towards Boss, Lilina and Fir clean up on Pirates.

Turn 17) Hand Axes pirates are bitches, retreat enough so they have to come on land to fight me. Rutger stands in Boss' Hand Axe range, to get him to switch to more favorable conditions.

Turn 18) Chad, Astol, Lilina, Fir: lather, rinse and repeat. Rutger doubles, criticaling once, Boss is at 10 HP. (Rutger crit counters him to death.)

Turn 19) Since the Pirate reinforcements are still coming, Roy holds off on seizing. No need to pass up free XP.

Turn 20) Retreat again, Hand Axe bitches.

Turn 21) Mop up.

Turn 22) Seize

--------------------------------------------

Appendix for Ch9:

Turn 2, Fir and Shin arrive in the Fog Northwest somewhere... south of the two forests by the castle it looks like...

Turn 12, Pirates on the Island Forts. North: Lv 11 Pirate Poison Axe/Antitoxin; Middle: Lv 10 Pirate Hand Axe; South: Lv 10 Pirate Steel Axe

Turn 13, "

Turn 14, "

Turn 15, "

Turn 16, "

Turn 17, "

Turn 18, "

Turn 19, "

Turn 20, "

--------------------------------------------

Current Unit Status:

Roy	   10.50  25 09 07 09 11 10 05 Alan C, Lance C
Alan	  13.16  31 14 08 10 08 09 00 Lance A, Roy C
Lance	 14.57  32 12 12 18 08 11 01 Alan A, Roy C
Dieck	 14.03  33 13 18 13 07 07 03 Clarine C, Rutger C
Clarine   13.55  21 05 09 15 16 05 09 Rutger B, Dieck C
Rutger	16.40  36 14 20 20 09 08 03 Clarine B, Dieck C
Lilina	12.03  23 12 08 09 11 04 12 Ashtol C
Thany	 11.56  25 08 12 19 13 07 07
Astol	 15.03  30 10 12 16 12 08 04 Lilina C
Chad	  15.56  29 11 09 19 12 07 00 Lugh C
Saul	  12.31  25 07 10 14 03 03 09
Sue	   06.55  20 07 12 10 07 07 00
Noah	  13.05  32 10 09 13 09 09 02
Fir	   08.40  30 12 16 17 10 06 04
Shin	  06.39  30 09 11 14 09 08 02
Marcus	05.57  35 09 14 13 11 10 09 
Ellen	 12.00  19 08 08 10 13 00 13
Lugh	  11.24  23 07 11 10 07 04 09 Chad C
Dorothy   07.81  21 07 08 07 05 04 03
Treck	 07.75  28 09 06 07 06 09 00
Zealot	01.60  Base
Wendy	 02.56  27 04 04 03 06 08 01
Barth	 09.33  35 10 06 05 02 14 01
Oujay	 06.36  27 08 11 11 07 04 00

Random thoughts:

I'm a little concerned at Astol's speed. A thief that doesn't hit 20 Speed isn't much of a thief. He's not out of the running yet, but he's closer than I'd like to see. There's always Chad, and potentially Cass though, so levelling Astol can't possibly hurt, even if he fails.

If Alan didn't have his supports, I'd definitely prefer to be using Noah. Then again, if Moses hadn't died he'd still be living.

I probably shouldn't have supported Lilina and Ashtol, on second thought, instead maybe opting for the bandits-with-hearts-of-gold triangle with Gonzo and Garret. Ah well, Ashtol is here now, and Lilina could do with the help (full Accuracy, and Crit, partial Avo). I may not even have ended up using Garret though, to be honest, except on that chapter with 18 units to chose from anyway, now that I think of it (as IIRC that's what I did last playthrough.)

Rutger has secured first Hero Crest. He is fucking MVP. Well, closely contending with Lance, in different aspects (Boss killer vs Mounted awesome).

Dieck finally got a few good levels after a slew of mediocre ones, where he'd been starting to worry me on Strength and Speed. I am most pleased.

I stand by my decision of Lilina > Lugh. Yes he's faster, yes he'd have more levels if I hadn't benched him, but no, he's not as powerful, their durabilities are comparable, and Lilina is cuter. (I'd argue that she has the edge on recruiting people, but Lugh gets Ray, or can Chad do that too? I can't recall...)

Sorry about not completely taking your advice on the Jeigans, Mekkah, by ditching Zealot on Ch 8, but I was just having trouble convincing myself to bring him. I brought Noah instead, because he's a Cav and has almost the same movement utility, meaning only his stats and weapon levels were inferior. Plus I needed to train him because I'm such a sap for Noah x Fir, and I'll probably take them both up to 20/-- then abandon them due to promotion item/final team slot shortages.

Then after that there've just been too many spots on the team I want to fill, and neither Jeigan really seemed to have a role in the gaiden nor in 9. They may make a triumphant and final return in Echidna chapter, because Klein and Tate are pains in the ass (particularly trying to save their fucking suicidal troops). We'll see when I get there.

Finally, when does Elphin start fortune telling, is it Chapter 12? I grow impatient to check my ranks and see if I've fucked up Combat or something irreparably, and then guess at which chapter to backtrack too. :S (I hope to avoid this, I really do.)

=================

Part 2:

So, one of the things I wanted to try was to plot character experience gain as a function of time. I won't lie to you, one of the main reasons for this was to see whether or not my "babying" of Lilina was excessive or detrimental to the team as a whole. When all was said and done I think it's safe to say that she probably took a little more than her share in 8x, but that was a small level anyway, with pitiful weak enemies, so even if Alan and Lance had gotten a piece of the pie there it would have been small pie indeed. As far as Chapter 9, she was hanging in the middle with the thieves, who weren't one-rounding the Pirates anyway, so having her pick off a few there was absolutely warranted, and somebody would have had to have done it anyway if it weren't her. Being underlevelled she made better use of it than anybody except maybe Fir, Sue, or Shin could have, but Fir was keeping busy herself, and Sue and Shin are Sacae, and DO NOT WANT. I guess Oujay or Lugh would be the other likely candidates, but I've just never been impressed with them. Maybe Roy, but he doesn't promote until forever, and that would keep him away from the throne, which needs seizing ASAP when the Pirates are gone. If anybody wants to reply to these assertions or has comments of their own, PM me, and we can take the rest of that discussion over to Mekkah's "Lilina is teh suck" thread (which I have a feeling he may have graciously created for me so that this thread wouldn't get invaded with it, what with my using and supporting her; if this is indeed the case, then I am very thankful for that, in addition to everything else he's suggested and helped with so far.)

Chapter	  0	  1	  2	  3	  4	  5	  6	  7	  8	  8x	 9
Roy		01.00  01.71  03.27  04.41  06.10  06.87  07.78  09.27  09.51  10.29  10.50
Marcus	 01.00  01.39  01.77  02.28  02.87  03.37  04.10  04.82  05.57  05.57  05.57
Alan	   01.00  02.85  04.15  05.69  06.61  07.37  09.81  11.04  12.66  12.66  13.16
Lance	  01.00  03.54  04.26  05.64  06.56  08.01  10.43  11.62  13.62  13.62  14.57
Wolt	   01.00  01.42  01.93  03.17  04.24  04.47  04.47  04.47  04.47  04.47  04.47
Bors	   01.00  01.24  01.35  01.57  02.31  02.88  02.88  02.88  02.88  02.88  02.88
Merlinus		  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00  01.00	
Ellen			 02.00  03.21  04.92  06.52  07.55  07.55  08.54  10.53  12.00  12.00
Dieck			 05.00  05.97  06.83  07.40  08.63  09.81  10.82  11.76  12.70  14.03
Thany			 01.00  02.74  03.48  04.65  06.17  08.38  08.99  08.99  09.81  11.56
Lot			   03.00  03.69  04.21  05.11  06.02  06.02  06.02  06.02  06.02  06.02
Ward			  02.00  02.64  02.85  04.45  05.92  05.92  05.92  05.92  05.92  05.92
Chad					 01.00  02.89  05.78  06.54  07.30  07.63  10.43  12.61  15.56
Lugh					 01.00  02.60  04.85  06.06  08.51  09.01  11.24  11.24  11.24
Rutger						  05.00  05.29  08.50  09.72  11.46  13.39  15.29  16.40
Clarine						 01.00  01.77  03.18  05.21  06.69  09.56  10.81  13.55
Saul										  05.00  07.14  08.03  10.35  10.35  12.31
Dorothy									   03.00  06.00  07.81  07.81  07.81  07.81
Sue										   01.00  04.08  04.08  04.08  04.08  06.55
Noah												 07.00  08.71  11.33  11.33  13.05
Treck												04.00  06.41  06.41  07.75  07.75
Zealot											   01.00  01.60  01.60  01.60  01.60
Astol													   10.00  12.03  12.62  15.03
Lilina													  01.00  04.11  07.85  12.03
Wendy													   01.00  02.56  02.56  02.56
Barth													   09.00  09.33  09.33  09.33
Oujay													   03.00  06.36  06.36  06.36
Fir																	   01.00  08.40
Shin																	  05.00  06.39

I also made a couple of charts to try to visualize this. They got ridiculously cluttered, even after dropping the shit characters. The following is probably the best I could do.

(Oops, Saul and Shin ended up the same color and symbol. Thankfully they're easy enough to tell apart by time and placement. Sorry about that folks.)

=================

Part 3:

I've put it off long enough, I really ought to make my final Saul vs Ellen decision, and they've each gotten even levels under their belt and enough where any major screwage or blessing should be apparent. I really can't take both of them as everyone and their brother wants a guiding ring (Lilina, Ray, Clarine, Saul AND Ellen is pushing it, way too far).

Current Stats (Raw):

Saul 12.31 25 07 10 14 03 03 09

Ellen 12.00 19 08 08 10 13 00 13

Battle Stats:

Saul has 25 HP, 7 Pow, 21 Accuracy, 14 AS, 31 Avoid, 3 Defense, 9 Resistance, 5 Crit, 3 Crit Evade

Ellen has 19 HP, 8 Pow, 22 Accuracy, 10 AS, 33 Avoid, 0 Defense, 13 Resistance, 4 Crit, 13 Crit Evade

Neither are supported yet. Saul has decisive HP, Speed, and Defense leads, lags in Resistance and Crit Evade. Magic is close enough that it's not worth considering (1 point of healing difference). Other offensive stats are worthless due to nonpromoted, but are at any rate neck-and-neck.

Of people I'm planning to use

Saul has slow ass supports with Cecilia and Igrene, as well as Ellen for Ice x Anime, or Ice x Ice, or Ice x Wind

IcexAnima = Attack +0.5, Defense +0.5, Accuracy +2.5, Avoid +5.0, Critical Evade +5.0

IcexIce = Defense +1.0, Accuracy +5.0, Avoid +5.0, Critical Evade +5.0

IcexWind = Attack +0.5, Defense +0.5, Accuracy +5.0, Avoid +2.5, Critical +2.5, Critical Evade +5.0

Ellen has any of her supports with Miredy, Zeis, Saul, Lugh, or Chad for Wind x Dark, Wind x Thunder, Wind x Ice, Wind x Fire, Wind x Thunder

WindxDark = Attack +0.5, Accuracy +5.0, Avoid +2.5, Critical +5.0, Critical Evade +5.0

WindxThunder = Attack +0.5, Defense +0.5, Accuracy +2.5, Avoid +2.5, Critical +5.0, Critical Evade +5.0

WindxFire = Attack +1.0, Accuracy +5.0, Avoid +2.5, Critical +5.0, Critical Evade +2.5

Feasibility: Zeiss, Miredy, and Chad have too much mobility, and--unlike say Clarine--want to use all of it as often as possible, and not just for emergencies. Also at this point, I've pretty much opted to ditch Lugh, as per usual. So Ellen's pretty much supportless.

For the sake of comparison though, let's assume she triangles up with Miredy and Zeiss, and somehow manages a B with both.

Supports add: Attack +2.0, Defense +1.0, Accuracy +15.0, Avoid +10, Critical +20, Critical Evade +20

Saul has 25 HP, 7 Pow, 21 Accuracy, 14 AS, 31 Avoid, 3 Defense, 9 Resistance, 5 Crit, 3 Crit Evade

Ellen has 19 HP, 8 Pow, 22 Accuracy, 10 AS, 33 Avoid, 0 Defense, 13 Resistance, 4 Crit, 13 Crit Evade

Ellen w/supports: 19 HP, 10 Pow, 37 Accuracy, 10 AS, 43 Avoid, 1 Defense, 14 Resistance, 24 Crit, 33 Crit Evade

Things look pretty good for her now, with a decisive lead in all things offense (except AS), and her 12 Avo, 5 Res ~offsets the 2 Def, 6 HP (considering Avo and Res to count at half strength to HP and Def, due to being less reliable and less common respectively) leaving her with a win in Crit Evade. Woo~.

But, let's suppose Saul picks up C Igrene, C Cecilia (this has similar turn requirements to Ellen's Bs), which are much more plausible supports, as they're all backliners, so will have similar movement patterns.

Supports Add: Attack +0.5, Defense +2.5, Accuracy +7.5, Avoid +10.0, Critical Evade +10.0

Saul w/supports : 25 HP, 7 Pow, 28 Accuracy, 14 AS, 41 Avoid, 5 Defense, 11 Resistance, 5 Crit, 13 Crit Evade

Ellen w/supports: 19 HP, 10 Pow, 37 Accuracy, 10 AS, 43 Avoid, 1 Defense, 14 Resistance, 24 Crit, 33 Crit Evade

Ellen w/o : 19 HP, 8 Pow, 22 Accuracy, 10 AS, 33 Avoid, 0 Defense, 13 Resistance, 4 Crit, 13 Crit Evade

Saul : 6 HP, 4 AS, 4 Defense

Ellen: 3 Pow, 9 Accuracy, 2 Avoid, 3 Resistance, 19 Crit, 20 Crit Evade.

Ellen's wins in Avoid and Resistance have become negligible, and her accuracy win is probably worthless as well. She keeps her Crit Evade win, though by a smaller margin.

So Ellen has 3 Pow, 19 Crit. Which would be great, if she were primarily an attacker. But she's not. And she'll have speed issues, where Saul won't.

This also does neglect the fact that many levels will happen between now and then, as the supporting characters don't exist yet. So Saul's HP, Def, and Speed leads will only continue to grow, similarly with Ellen's Luck and Pow leads.

Let's suppose 8 average levels are gained putting them at promotion level.

Saul 20.00 30 10 14 18 04 04 13

Ellen 20.00 23 12 10 12 19 00 18

Saul has 30 HP, 10 Pow, 30 Accuracy, 18 AS, 40 Avoid, 4 Defense, 13 Resistance, 7 Crit, 4 Crit Evade

Ellen has 23 HP, 12 Pow, 29 Accuracy, 12 AS, 43 Avoid, 0 Defense, 18 Resistance, 5 Crit, 19 Crit Evade

Saul w/Supports: 30 HP, 10 Pow, 37 Accuracy, 18 AS, 50 Avoid, 6 Defense, 15 Resistance, 7 Crit, 14 Crit Evade

Ellen w/Supports: 23 HP, 14 Pow, 44 Accuracy, 12 AS, 53 Avoid, 1 Defense, 19 Resistance, 25 Crit, 39 Crit Evade

Little has changed, really. An unsupported Saul vs a supported Ellen is now down by 13 Avoid, 6 Res, 35 Crit Evade--rather than 12, 5, and 30--but up by 7 HP, 6 AS, and 3 Def--compared to 6, 4, and 2.

A supported Saul is only down by 3 avo, 4 Res, 25 crit Evade. Supported Saul vs Unsupported Ellen is the clear victor 7HP, 7Avo, 6AS, 6Def, and only down by 3 Res, 5 Crit Evade plus Ellen has lost all of her offensive edge in the form of Crit and Pow.

Durability: Saul. Offense: Meh.

Or am I wrong? Barring someone pointing out a terrible flaw in my logic, I'm using Saul.

Chapter 10:

Tentative Team: Roy, Dieck, Clarine, Rutger, Lilina, Thany, Astol, Alan, Lance, Saul, Noah, Fir

Lilina loaded up on an Iron Axe and a Hand Axe to give to Gonzo ('cause doesn't he only start with Devil Axe? That plus his Skill equals ewww.)

Edit: Sorry, but you have posted more images than you are allowed to

Edited December 15, 2008 by Balcerzak

[Mekkah]

The summaries may be harder to read than the general paragraph summaries of before, so if you do read them and you don't like the change, tell me which you'd prefer to be seeing here in the future.

other chapters were more fun to read but it doesn't matter much

nice use of the arena in Ch7 btw. i'll be honest and say i couldn't be arsed to read the other chapter summaries in one sitting, so i'll just get some other advice going in the meanwhile.

I'm a little concerned at Astol's speed. A thief that doesn't hit 20 Speed isn't much of a thief. He's not out of the running yet, but he's closer than I'd like to see. There's always Chad, and potentially Cass though, so levelling Astol can't possibly hurt, even if he fails.

I don't think you need more Spd than the enemy to be able to steal in this game...not that there's a lot of dudes to steal from that have over 16 Spd anyway, and if there are it's not 10 enemies per chapter, in which case you can just use Chad.

If Alan didn't have his supports, I'd definitely prefer to be using Noah. Then again, if Moses hadn't died he'd still be living.

Yeah, that. His supports just rule too much.

I probably shouldn't have supported Lilina and Ashtol, on second thought, instead maybe opting for the bandits-with-hearts-of-gold triangle with Gonzo and Garret. Ah well, Ashtol is here now, and Lilina could do with the help (full Accuracy, and Crit, partial Avo). I may not even have ended up using Garret though, to be honest, except on that chapter with 18 units to chose from anyway, now that I think of it (as IIRC that's what I did last playthrough.)

I don't think there's a lot of time for that Garret/Lilina support to develop anyway. Accuracy isn't extremely wonderful for either unit, but I'm sure they'll like the Crit...

I stand by my decision of Lilina > Lugh

pft, real men risk their lives and funds rank to buy Hugh then watch him get one-rounded by everything.

(do what you like, you may as well continue with Lilina now that you put her a level _above_ Lugh...shame you babied him for his hardest part only to ditch him after that though)

Sorry about not completely taking your advice on the Jeigans, Mekkah, by ditching Zealot on Ch 8, but I was just having trouble convincing myself to bring him.

I'll admit I usually only bring Zealot in 8 and 9 because I have spots leftover (I haven't played this game ranked yet, I just happen to have random ideas that occasionally turn out good in addition to FE7 ranking experience). Please do bench him in favor of more EXP-rank friendly units.

Finally, when does Elphin start fortune telling, is it Chapter 12?

yeah.

I grow impatient to check my ranks and see if I've fucked up Combat or something irreparably, and then guess at which chapter to backtrack too. :S (I hope to avoid this, I really do.)

got savestates?

saul vs ellen

just pick one :P from what it looks like now, I'd take saul. 6 hp, 3 def and 4 AS are much better concrete wins than 10 cev, 2 avo, 1 mag, etc. wouldn't bother trying to support either.

For the Lilina thread, actually, I was thinking of two other particular threads that got derailed into Lugh vs Lilina vs the rest of the world, not this one.

[thunderstrife]

I always consider chronicling FE6 HM, and I've beaten it like 20 times or so, but then it occurs to me that the only hard part is 1-7, and from 8-Final it goes from even to NM to even easier than NM, so the whole thing seems really futile. Its just the Ch. 7 hurtle that you need to get over, that's the hardest part, then it's easy sailing.

[Balcerzak]

First, some replies, then Ch 10 and Ch 11 reports.

other chapters were more fun to read but it doesn't matter much

I thought as much. It has been noted, and I'm reverting styles.

nice use of the arena in Ch7 btw. i'll be honest and say i couldn't be arsed to read the other chapter summaries in one sitting, so i'll just get some other advice going in the meanwhile.

Thanks, I always try to make decent use of arenas, with dancers and rescue chains when possible, just part of my frugal nature I guess. As you'll see later on though, it simply wasn't feasible to get maximum use in Ch11, as there was just so much going on, though I did my best to try and come close.

I don't think you need more Spd than the enemy to be able to steal in this game...not that there's a lot of dudes to steal from that have over 16 Spd anyway, and if there are it's not 10 enemies per chapter, in which case you can just use Chad.

Is that so? In that case I'll stop worrying that much about it, as with a couple more levels Ashtol has confirmed that he's not going to make it.

pft, real men risk their lives and funds rank to buy Hugh then watch him get one-rounded by everything.

(do what you like, you may as well continue with Lilina now that you put her a level _above_ Lugh...shame you babied him for his hardest part only to ditch him after that though)

I'll have to try using Hugh one day, if for nothing else than to honor Canas, who I always enjoyed in 7. And yeah, maybe one day I'll actually stick with Lugh, but it's against my nature not to baby a cute unit if it's not too much trouble.

got savestates?

Absolutely. One at the beginning of each chapter, and an extra one for Ch 9, before I entered the villages in the NE section, 'cause I didn't quite remember which was which route. Also, I half have an idea of checking (after the PT is all over), whether the different routes have different turn requirements for tactics. We'll see if I stick with that, or abandon the thought.

just pick one :P from what it looks like now, I'd take saul. 6 hp, 3 def and 4 AS are much better concrete wins than 10 cev, 2 avo, 1 mag, etc. wouldn't bother trying to support either.

Good to hear this. I sort felt that before going through all the effort, but felt like trying to be thorough as practice for if/when I ever decide to debate against other people. And he very likely won't get the supports, but I do plan on using Cecilia and Igrene, for at least some of the time, so if it's not out of my way he will be camping out near them, and I could get pleasantly surprised.

For the Lilina thread, actually, I was thinking of two other particular threads that got derailed into Lugh vs Lilina vs the rest of the world, not this one.

Ah, I must have missed those, then.

I always consider chronicling FE6 HM, and I've beaten it like 20 times or so, but then it occurs to me that the only hard part is 1-7, and from 8-Final it goes from even to NM to even easier than NM, so the whole thing seems really futile. Its just the Ch. 7 hurtle that you need to get over, that's the hardest part, then it's easy sailing.

Chapter 7 was tricky, for the first few chapters, but surprisingly didn't seem to be as bad as I feared it was going to be. I honestly had more trouble with Chapter 11, though that came from not knowing when and where reinforcements were arriving, which royally fucked up my first go through. After I readjusted strategy, Ch 11 went fairly smoothly as well.

==============

Chapter 10:

Team: Roy, Dieck, Clarine, Rutger, Lilina, Thany, Astol, Alan, Lance, Saul, Noah, Fir

Lilina, Ashtol, Alan, and Lance are set up on the LHS; Fir, Noah, and Dietgarine take the middle; Thany and Roy head a little further right.

My strategy was probably a little aggressive, as I went pretty full force into the enemy territory, with Lilina sniping from over the ridge, Fir and Noah getting up in the enemies grills right off the bat. The enemy phase saw Noah getting positively swarmed, but he dodged enough and taking a few hits, while Lilina took a hit from a Merc, who circled around, but she wasn't doubled and she survived so all was well, and I planned out the counter attacks.

Ashtol did some thieving, center group cleaned up on enemies Rutger and Dieck both getting criticals (Rutger had decided to go ahead and break the 1 durability KE, Dieck was just lucky). I did make a crucial mistake here though. I fully expecting the AI to have the merc that had attacked Lilina (and I'd not killed) go for the unarmed Saul who was within range, but it went for full health Lilina. :o Then, sadly, she got ballistaed to death. :(

Since it had only got to turn 2, though, and I'd noted the order and moves properly, I easily replayed it to nearly the same spot, but had Lilina do things differently, she hid safely behind Ashtol and instead of killing the Halberd fighter (who ends up throwing himself on Ashtol's sword on the enemy phase anyway), had her attack the merc. I also altered how I dealt with the KE Merc, as Lance had been just shy of killing it, so I had Alan javelin him, so he wouldn't live and retreat to the southern forts for healing.

This time the enemy phase proceeds smoothly, and Lilina lives. Player phase sees the surviving enemies soundly mopped up, and Lance equips a sword, stands on the bridge in range of the Berserker, to bait the next group into advancing. Alan and Roy camp nearby to provide support, everyone else does too. :3 Thany flies in the general direction of the eastern village, now that Lilina killed the archer that was over there. (It had attacked her on enemy phase and she countered for exactly half health, and then she finished on player phase.)

I gave the Berserker's kill to Javelin Alan then have the others advance and pick off what they can. At or around this time Geese pops out of the village and comes around the north, so Roy goes and recruits him. Pirates start spawning on the western fort, and Fir--remembering the fun times she had slaughtering pirates spawning on island forts in the last chapter--decides to head over and provide an warm welcome for them when they make it ashore. Noah goes too, for moral support (and building up towards real support).

Next turn sees Lance and Alan go "deal with" the ballista menace (Alan full moves to support range, then Lance tosses javelins up the cliff and doubles it to death), the rest of the troops finish mopping up in the center. Thany visits village.

Because nothing much is happening now, let's fast forward to Gonzo's recruitment scene, always so touching. *wipes away a tear*

After this, Thany kills the Nosferatu Shaman, while Rutger advances, getting ready to earn his keep by managing the Boss next round. Meanwhile, Fir is enjoying her Pirate massacre up in the north.

Turn 11 sees Rutger attack the boss, using an Iron sword this time, as I estimated it should be enough for when enemy phase rolls around. (And it was, with a lucky crit. Gave 100XP for Rutger, and a good level. HP, Str, Luck, AND Def. Could hardly ask for better.)

On turn 12, even though Pirates were still flowing, it was time to seize. It was only one Pirate per turn, rather than three in Ch 9, so I figured no great loss.

Easy level was easy. :D!

However! When I loaded up a save to go through, double-check, and construct an entire reinforcements list, I saw that I missed a ton of Fighter reinforcements from the southern forts, so I decided to forgo Rutger's awesome level, and do some more training, as Gonzo could use the kills. Nothing really special happens, reinforcements are summarily slaughtered, Boss killed, and the throne was seized on turn 20. I've kept the other save file as backup in case Tactics is a more thorny issue than XP. Rutger still ended up gaining a point of strength when he did level, so it was not as big a loss as it could have been.

--------------------------------------------

Appendix Ch10:

Turn 4, Pirate Lv 11 Poison Axe/Antitoxin, on the western fort. Geese exits the village on the north side.

Turn 5, Pirate Lv 13 Hammer

Turn 6, Pirate Lv 12 Steel Axe, Gonzales (bottom castle).

Turn 7, Pirate Lv 11 Poison Axe/Antitoxin

Turn 8, Pirate Lv 13 Hammer

Turn 9, Pirate Lv 12 Steel Axe

Turn 10, Pirate Lv 11 Poison Axe/Antitoxin

Turn 11, Pirate Lv 13 Hammer

Turn 12, Pirate Lv 12 Steel Axe

Turn 13, on bottom forts Fighter Lv 12 Steel Axe, Fighter Lv 13 Steel Axe/Hand Axe

Turn 14, on bottom forts Fighter Lv 12 Steel Axe, Fighter Lv 13 Steel Axe/Hand Axe

Turn 15, on bottom forts Fighter Lv 12 Steel Axe, Fighter Lv 13 Steel Axe/Hand Axe

Turn 16, on bottom forts Fighter Lv 12 Steel Axe, Fighter Lv 13 Steel Axe/Hand Axe

Turn 17, on bottom forts Fighter Lv 12 Steel Axe, Fighter Lv 13 Steel Axe/Hand Axe

Turn 18, on bottom forts Fighter Lv 12 Steel Axe, Fighter Lv 13 Steel Axe/Hand Axe

--------------------------------------------

Chapter 11:

Team: Roy, Dieck, Clarine, Rutger, Lilina, Thany, Alan, Lance, Saul, Noah, Fir, Gonzales.

(Nothing to steal, so Ashtol gets the bench. Gonzo needs the training more, and proves vital to my strategy.)

As previously mentioned, I had one incredibly terrible first run, which was at least worthwhile in that it allowed me to troubleshoot my general strategies and map out the reinforcement arrive times. One of the villages was burned, which is unforgivable, so despite some characters having received better levels on this playthrough, it was an abortion: from my mishandling of the bandit situation, and even more so from the moment I fucked up Tate's arrival situation (Tate didn't budge from her arrival spot, even though all her units did, so I had to waste time navigating Thany up to her, while avoiding her troops, during the course of wasted time the Cav reinforcements appeared, unexpected, [the worst part of the entire mess IMO] and proceeded to try their best to fuck up Tate and Thany, forcing them to try and evade and outmaneuver the AI, and plummeting Combat rank). I also learned several valuable things about how the NPCed Klein and Tate's troops seem to work, as well, which was win (even though what I apparently observed in Tate's troops didn't hold, as in this run they turned around and tried to retreat to the west which would be in the direct path of the cav reinforcements and certain doom; instead of what they later did, which was beeline for the gap/exit just to the left of the boss temple which is also where Klein's troops go) as it meant I no longer had to try to rescue them all just to ensure their survival.

That said, I won't bore you with any more details from that abomination, and just describe the cleaner, more elegant approach that helped Ch 11 proceed much, much smoother.

First things first, is that I send Alan and Lance down the left hand side to the very bottom, making full use of their high mobility and A support to get there, kill the troops, get the villages, and still make it back in time for the party when the Cav reinforcements arrive in the NW.

The second main segment in my strategy involves a lot of Thany executing her godly flying utility, along with Lalum's refreshing to drop off a self-sufficient contingent of units in the walled-off arena section of the map. This group consists of Gonzo (dropped on turn one with Hand Axe equipped in range of the non-longbow archer; he missed one counter but hit on the other so it was worth it), Fir on turn 2, Saul on turn 3, and Lilina on turn 4. Turn 2 had Gonzo kill the archer with a 1 durability Iron Axe (that used to belong to Marcus), leaving him with Hand Axe again to deal with an oncoming Hand Axe Fighter.

The third major division of my force was Dietgarine, Roy, Lalum, and Noah, moving down along the middle and taking care of business. (I organized the Thany refreshes to occur so that Lalum could advance as much as she could each turn, as I need her to make as much progress as possible, so she can snag Echidna).

By the end of turn four Alan and Lance have cleared the bottom segment of enemies. Gonzo has killed the initial two archers, and a Fighter (swarms more are coming, as well as more archers). Fir Wo Dao's the Killer Bow Archer, just to be on the safe side, standing on a forest for more hax avoid than she really needs against axe users.

On turn five Lance and Alan visit the southernmost villages, Noah has been working on doing the central ones. Lalum dances for Clarine so that she can zip up to Klein recruiting range, when he and his forces spawn and move. (It seems apparent that Klein et. al.'s movement pattern is RNG dependent, as last time he was more shielded by his archers and harder to reach than this time, whereas this time he was left clear and open. Lucky!)

On turn six Klein is recruited and immediately heads straight due north (in order to attempt to intercept the northernmost bandit that is about to arrive, hoping to reach it before it can burn the village, which is what happened previously. :(). The arena area battalion defeats all enemies up there, save for one wounded fighter, and the map victory tones begin playing. (Oh how misleading those tones are. XP)

On turn 7 Noah moves, gets a dance from Lalum, and moves again to make it to the southern threatened village in time; he uses his remaining movement to head back to the center as far as possible while maintaining in the Steel Axe Brigand's range. Gonzales battles a Soldier in Arena for 620g. Thany shops buying Lightning x2, Heal x2. And Klein soaks the Brigand's attack on the enemy phase (saving the poor village from destruction at the, very reasonable, cost of some health).

Enemy phase sees Tate and co. appear, this time Tate approaches along with her troops, so Thany can talk to her and NPC them on player phase. Since nobody else can quite make it, Klein kills Brigand, wasting some funds (Silver Bow...). Gonzales fights a Dragon Rider for 630g.

On turn 9, Fir Wo Dao's one of the Fighters that appeared to try to arrest Echidna, Noah wounds another, Dieck wounds the third whom Roy then finishes. Lalum was just within range to walk up and recruit Echidna, thankfully. Gonzales fights a Dragon Rider for 790g. Klein stands on a forest and baits the shaman (the one lurking near the boss) into attacking him, so that the Klein and Tate forces can escape unmolested up that corridor where it seems they were heading.

By turn 10 Alan and Lance had made it back to the NW, and were ready and waiting with Horseslayer to fuck up those Cav reinforcements (camping in the space just south of the two-wide opening in the way to limit excessive enemy access). Alan OHKOs four of them, and the enemy phase ends with him at 1 HP (I was either very lucky, or very unlucky). Lance then took the Horseslayer from him, wounded the Killer Lance cav, and Alan escaped south to use a vulnerary (he will be chased by one of the Javelin Cavs, but it's okay). At this point, most of the NPC forces have run away safely, only like two left or somthing.

Gonzo has abandoned the arena and is heading to the center where he'll be needed for taking care of other reinforcements, (he wasn't winning as much money as I would like anyway, as the wagers were all piss poor, must come from having a capped strength stat. He also actually gets hit and takes damage, which is a decided no-no.) Fir has been heading back there to replace him, a position she'll maintain for the rest of the level. [Her battles include: Brigand 760g, Fighter 770g,

Pirate 790g, Myrmidon 830g (I was feeling lucky, and it paid off), Pirate 710g, Pirate 700g.] Tate gets some shopping done (2x Javelin, Iron Axe, 2x Killer Axe, Hand Axe). (Somewhere above I forgot to mention it, but Thany rescued her, carried her over to where Klein was, and he recruited her).

Lance switches to Javelins, as only Javelin bitch cavs are left, Alan does the same, but keeps burning vulneraries to stay alive. They eventually finish up, and head south to the main area. They won't get there when the other cav reinforcements arrive, but they will manage to arrive just in time to get some hits in on the final turn of the chapter.

Lilina, Gonzo, Echidna, and Thany set up and effective way to deal with the Bandits that start to stream from the caves. Enemy phase: North bandit exits cave, throws a Hand Axe at Lilina, misses, and gets hit for damage. South Bandit comes up and attacks Iron Axe Echidna (she took this from Gonzo, as she simply doesn't have the con for the Steel Axe she comes with), misses, and gets doubled.

Player phase: Devil Axe Gonzo 1HKOs the top bandit, Thany Javelin 1HKOs the bottom bandit. Lather, rinse, repeat.

On the turn when the the Southern reinforcements are due arrive, and I decide repositioning things is incredibly wise, Lilina has the option to support Gonzo, so moves to his north and does so. I place Rutger equipped with the fresh KE below the Boss (buffed with Barrier in case he manages against all odds to hit), with his supporters nearby and cheering him on. Since the reinforcements happen first, before the Boss attacks and Rutger crit counters, KOing, everything is just peachy.

Gonzales kills the Paladin, using two uses of Devil Axe (once on enemy phase when it moved up and attacked, and once on player phase). Tate manages to sneak in a few kills on wounded units. It takes a couple turns before everything is dealt with, and as mentioned Lance and Alan arrive just in time to take a kill each.

Turn 17 sees Roy seize to a perfect victory, netting the Hero Crest, Orion's Bolt, and Elysian Whip, as well as the satisfaction of a job very well done.

NB: I used more vulneraries (7) in this level alone than I do in most playthroughs (slight hyperbole). 3 on Alan when running around with Javelin cav following him, 2 on Saul, and 2 more on Alan as he and Lance are booking their way to the final battle. (These were probably a waste, but it never hurts to be careful, and anyway I've stolen a metric ton of them off of enemies already).

Chapter MVP: Thany, for her invaluable ferrying skills. I couldn't have done it without you. *salutes* You have absolutely redeemed yourself from fail, no questions asked.

Honorable Mention: Klein due to being mandatory for baiting the Brigand and saving the village, as well as baiting the shaman to secure the NPC retreat.

--------------------------------------------

Appendix Ch11:

Turn 5, Klein and co.

Turn 6, 2x Brigand Lv 14 Hand Axe/Steel Axe from north cave, Lv 15 Steel Axe from South

Turn 7, Tate and co.

Turn 8, Echidna arrives, surrounded by 3 Fighers (2x Lv 15 Hand Axe, Lvl 17 Hand Axe).

Turn 10, 7 cavs in the NW (4x Lv 15 Javelin/Iron Lance, Lv 19 Killer Lance, 2x Lv 14 Iron Lance)

Turn 12, 2x Brigands

Turn 13, 2x Brigands

Turn 14, Robarts Lv 1 Paladin Silver Lance, 4x Lv 15 Javelin/Iron Lance, 2x Lv 14 Iron Lance in the south [Do not arrive if boss is dead]. 2x Brigands

Turn 15, 2x Brigands

--------------------------------------------

Units' Vitals:

Roy	  12.45  27 09 08 11 13 10 05
Dieck	15.81  34 14 19 13 07 07 03
Clarine  16.23  22 05 10 18 19 06 09
Rutger   18.84  38 15 20 20 10 08 03
Lilina   16.01  26 16 08 11 13 04 12
Thany	15.02  27 10 15 20 14 08 09 
Alan	 16.15  33 15 09 12 09 09 00
Lance	17.14  35 13 13 20 09 13 02
Saul	 15.03  27 09 12 16 03 04 10
Noah	 15.41  34 11 09 14 09 09 02
Fir	  16.74  37 13 19 20 15 09 05
Gonzales 15.10  50 20 08 16 10 11 02
Astol	17.79  32 11 13 17 12 09 04
Geese	10.03  33 10 09 09 09 08 00
Lalum	02.63  15 01 02 12 10 02 04
Klein	01.30  33 16 16 13 13 10 08
Echidna  01.32  35 13 19 18 06 08 07
Tate	 09.04  28 09 13 15 07 08 08

Notes:

It's becoming more and more apparent that Clarine is going to be Magic and Resistance screwed. Her Speed, Luck, Def, and HP are superior, though, so it's tolerable.

I think I'm finding it hard to make full use of Dieck when he's attached at the hip to Rutger who is now getting overlevelled off of the phat Boss kills, but he's still gaining levels and is not in any danger of getting left behind, so I guess it's just that everybody else is finally catching up to him.

I really should kill more units with Roy, but he's a hassle, and usually booking it to the throne, and too busy to get sidetracked with fighting. Maybe next chapter.

--------------------------------------------

Ch 12:

Tentative Team:

Left wing: Ashtol, Dieck, Rutger, Roy, Clarine (restore staff), Lance, Alan, Lilina

Right Wing: Gonzales, Lalum, Chad, Echidna, Saul (unlock staff, sleep staff)

Gripe: Right Wing needs one more slot so I could send Lilina (and swap Chad/Ashtol) over there to fully grow supports. Sigh.

Pondering: I really would like to be using Fir and Noah still (they're moments away from a support level, they got it on the aborted run, because I hadn't ferried Fir up north), but I can't not use Lalum, I always field a dancer as soon as I get them. I could easily justify holding off on Echidna a bit longer, but if I'm using Lalum, I might as well use her too.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Balcerzak

[Mekkah]

Ch12's splitting up is ass, yeah.

I usually don't send underleveled people into the arena, since the EXP output tends to be good anyway, which means you get better overall EXP by letting lower leveled units kill the enemies with set levels while higher-ups do the arena work, but it seems this was more efficient tactics-wise anyway. Plus Fir generally does well in the arena.

If you find Rutger/Dieck too much of a hassle you can keep them apart if you wish...Rutger can always try to score a C with Fir somewhere if he misses a full Crt/Avo support.

Also, you should be able to read your ranks now, right?

[Balcerzak]

Ch12's splitting up is ass, yeah.

I usually don't send underleveled people into the arena, since the EXP output tends to be good anyway, which means you get better overall EXP by letting lower leveled units kill the enemies with set levels while higher-ups do the arena work, but it seems this was more efficient tactics-wise anyway. Plus Fir generally does well in the arena.

Okay, so it's not just me then. That's a small comfort.

You know, that's a very good point about levels and the arena. I think Fir was doing decently by that point, only a little behind the curve, and much better than Gonzo was anyway, but a lot of the other units hadn't made it there [to the arena] by that point. Then, when she was actually fighting in the arena she was just performing so well that I didn't think about pulling her out and sending in someone else, though again, there wouldn't have been a lot of other options of (available) people who were higher-up. Maybe Echidna, now that I think about it, she probably could have done it... I'll try to keep this in mind for the future, as I think in one of my other earlier playthroughs I had an underlevelled Miredy working an arena at some point, that should probably be better served going to someone else. Good call.

If you find Rutger/Dieck too much of a hassle you can keep them apart if you wish...Rutger can always try to score a C with Fir somewhere if he misses a full Crt/Avo support.

Also, you should be able to read your ranks now, right?

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is. While the chapter is going on, things seem to mostly be flowing well, it's only in the after the fact analysis where I'm like "Huh, Dieck hasn't been gaining a lot of levels recently, I wonder what's up?" I keep an eye on how things work in this next chapter. Maybe I'll give him the Dragon Killer, and have him finish the Boss this time. (Arcard does get replaced with a mamkute if I recall correctly.)

Actually, I was hoping so and looking forward to seeing, but it appears that it isn't the case yet (to my annoyance). Elphin must be waiting until we've fully cleansed the Western Isles before completely opening up to me, despite having "joined" with me already. Ah well, there's nothing I can really do about it. He better talk to me after this. If I have to go through the gaiden as well without guidance I'll be even more irate. Thankfully this should be a short chapter, so I'll likely finish it up and find out and report by tomorrow.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Balcerzak

[Shadow Mir]

Indeed Arcard leaves, then he gets replaced by Flaer, then Flaer getrs replaced by Aine the mamkute.

[Mekkah]

Are you sure you're looking in the right place for Elphin's stuff? Isn't it something like "Reading"?

Also, don't worry about your funds ranking when all you're doing is shooting a single Bandit with Klein's Silver Bow. It's not like it's 100G per use or something (but even if it were, that still isn't much at all).

For Ch12, you'll probably want to ferry Roy near the latter parts for recruiting Cath then shipping him straight back to the throne. Or maybe it would be worth trying not to recruit Cath but instead doing it at a point where Roy isn't needed in two places at once, though I'm not sure how wise that is.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Mekkah

[Balcerzak]

Yeah, I don't see a heading for Reading anywhere.

I usually do end up ferrying Roy back and forth, at least in prior runs. We'll see if it's more difficult or burdensome to achieve that this time around or not. Though that is a point. I always forget you can always try to recruit her in the future, if you fail to do so here.

[Mekkah]

I guess that since Reikken went "240 turns for up to Ch12", he probably starts saying the reading at either 12x or 13 then...