Tears of the Kingdom First Impressions

[Jotari]

59 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I wouldn't know; I've only played Oracle of Seasons. If that is the case, then, with Tears of the Kingdom and Majora's Mask are the only two Zelda games with internally consistent time travel mechanics.

Even Majora's Mask they play a little loose with it in that we get to see all the happy endings during the credits even though none of them happen at once. And Link's activities at the bank either need to either work uniquely outside of time, or it needs to make temporal sense...in which case Link is commiting major bank fraud as the rupees his stamp claims to posses were never deposited after time travel.

7 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

One thing that's a bit disappointing is that the filler regions from BOTW mostly remain filler regions rather than being filled with new towns, quests and dungeons. For example there's very little point in going to the Hebra ice region or the Gerudo Highlands. 

And I feel that a much bigger issue than Breath of the Wild. As Breath of the Wild those areas still have the exploration aspect. There's still not a huge amount to do in them, but finding them is something new. Now they're very much just there to fill out the map. Even Akkala, which feels a lot less like a filler region, has this problem.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

50 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Even Majora's Mask they play a little loose with it in that we get to see all the happy endings during the credits even though none of them happen at once. And Link's activities at the bank either need to either work uniquely outside of time, or it needs to make temporal sense...in which case Link is committing major bank fraud as the rupees his stamp claims to posses were never deposited after time travel.

I think the implication in the golden ending is that the goddess of time essentially combined all the loops at the end, making it that everything Link did matter. Maybe that would also solve the bank fraud issue. Otherwise, it would be best that Link never return to Termina.

 

57 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

One thing that's a bit disappointing is that the filler regions from BOTW mostly remain filler regions rather than being filled with new towns, quests and dungeons. For example there's very little point in going to the Hebra ice region or the Gerudo Highlands. 

To me, the Hebra ice region felt a lot less like filler this time because there's a stable, a geoglyph, a Great Fairy and a maze in it. But yeah, it was disappointing that the Gerudo Highlands is just the area between the Rito and the Gerudo again. I'd say it's especially disappointing here, at least from my perspective, because I used the Gerudo Highlands in my Breath of the Wild playthrough as the way to get from the Gerudo Desert to the Rito location (I completed the Divine Beasts in this order: Zora, Gerudo, Rito and Goron). Since I went Rito -> Goron -> Zora -> Gerudo this time around, there was no reason to visit the Gerudo Highlands except for the one geoglyph.

 

I finally completed all 152 shrines, so I can give my complete thoughts on the shrines and the reward:

The reward:

Spoiler

It's really cool, though I'm having trouble deciding if it should've been in this game or in Breath of the Wild.

Specifically, it's armour that makes Link look like the ancient hero that first defeated Calamity Ganon. On the one hand, wearing the armour results in a very cool reveal that the ancient hero was visibly part-Zonai. On the other hand, wearing the armour of the ancient hero feels like something I would want to do for fighting Calamity Ganon, not for fighting Ganondorf. I can't help but wonder if some sort of, "Armour of King Rauru" or something like that would be more fitting.

The shrines (no real spoilers; this spoiler tag is just to keep this from becoming long):

Spoiler

I will say that, overall, the shrines in Tears of the Kingdom are better than the shrines in Breath of the Wild. I didn't dislike the sheer number of shrines in Breath of the Wild as much as many others did, but it did get tiresome finding and completing all 120 shrines.

For Tears of the Kingdom and its 152 shrines, I found it overall less tiresome, and I'm not entirely sure why that is. It should be more tedious since they follow the same basic formula and there are 32 more of them, but it isn't.

That said, there is one type of shrine I did find tiresome. Now, Eventide Island in Breath of the Wild was a fun and finely-crafted experience; taking away Link's items and forcing the player to scavenge, improvise and get creative. However, part of its appeal was that it was Breath of the Wild at its best; not one item on the island felt too good to ever actually use, and the lack of armour encouraged stealth and other tactics. Also, it was only done once. A large subset of shrines in Tears of the Kingdom take what Eventide Island did and run it into the ground. Some of these encourage utilizing the environment and provided Zonai devices, and those ones are good. But a lot of them are nothing more than stealth missions that often fail at being stealth missions. These shrines definitely became tedious.

 

[Jotari]

49 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I think the implication in the golden ending is that the goddess of time essentially combined all the loops at the end, making it that everything Link did matter. Maybe that would also solve the bank fraud issue. Otherwise, it would be best that Link never return to Termina.

 

To me, the Hebra ice region felt a lot less like filler this time because there's a stable, a geoglyph, a Great Fairy and a maze in it. But yeah, it was disappointing that the Gerudo Highlands is just the area between the Rito and the Gerudo again. I'd say it's especially disappointing here, at least from my perspective, because I used the Gerudo Highlands in my Breath of the Wild playthrough as the way to get from the Gerudo Desert to the Rito location (I completed the Divine Beasts in this order: Zora, Gerudo, Rito and Goron). Since I went Rito -> Goron -> Zora -> Gerudo this time around, there was no reason to visit the Gerudo Highlands except for the one geoglyph.

 

I finally completed all 152 shrines, so I can give my complete thoughts on the shrines and the reward:

The reward:

  Hide contents

It's really cool, though I'm having trouble deciding if it should've been in this game or in Breath of the Wild.

Specifically, it's armour that makes Link look like the ancient hero that first defeated Calamity Ganon. On the one hand, wearing the armour results in a very cool reveal that the ancient hero was visibly part-Zonai. On the other hand, wearing the armour of the ancient hero feels like something I would want to do for fighting Calamity Ganon, not for fighting Ganondorf. I can't help but wonder if some sort of, "Armour of King Rauru" or something like that would be more fitting.

The shrines (no real spoilers; this spoiler tag is just to keep this from becoming long):

  Hide contents

I will say that, overall, the shrines in Tears of the Kingdom are better than the shrines in Breath of the Wild. I didn't dislike the sheer number of shrines in Breath of the Wild as much as many others did, but it did get tiresome finding and completing all 120 shrines.

For Tears of the Kingdom and its 152 shrines, I found it overall less tiresome, and I'm not entirely sure why that is. It should be more tedious since they follow the same basic formula and there are 32 more of them, but it isn't.

That said, there is one type of shrine I did find tiresome. Now, Eventide Island in Breath of the Wild was a fun and finely-crafted experience; taking away Link's items and forcing the player to scavenge, improvise and get creative. However, part of its appeal was that it was Breath of the Wild at its best; not one item on the island felt too good to ever actually use, and the lack of armour encouraged stealth and other tactics. Also, it was only done once. A large subset of shrines in Tears of the Kingdom take what Eventide Island did and run it into the ground. Some of these encourage utilizing the environment and provided Zonai devices, and those ones are good. But a lot of them are nothing more than stealth missions that often fail at being stealth missions. These shrines definitely became tedious.

 

I've always thought it would have been really fun if the credits was a playable post game for Majora's Mask. Basically you get to explore the carnival of time and see the results of your efforts, with certain events like Anju's wedding or the concert in the Milk Bar happening at certain times. Only, it's still in continuity with that loop. So you can challenge yourself to complete as much of the game as you can in a single loop to try and get the most happy endings possible.

[vanguard333]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I've always thought it would have been really fun if the credits was a playable post game for Majora's Mask. Basically you get to explore the carnival of time and see the results of your efforts, with certain events like Anju's wedding or the concert in the Milk Bar happening at certain times. Only, it's still in continuity with that loop. So you can challenge yourself to complete as much of the game as you can in a single loop to try and get the most happy endings possible.

I like the ending of Majora's Mask as is, but that is a neat idea.

By the way, what do you think of TotK's shrines compared to the ones in Breath of the Wild?

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I like the ending of Majora's Mask as is, but that is a neat idea.

By the way, what do you think of TotK's shrines compared to the ones in Breath of the Wild?

I agree on the no weapons point. Even more than it just being repetitive, there is a much better feeling of utilizing your surroundings when exploring an island than an enclosed area with items just left out for you. And considering you always get two weapons (or one weapon and fuse material if your smart) right at the entrance, it comes across less like utilizing stealth or gathering resources and more like "defeat these enemies on hard mode". Though I will note that Breath of the Wild also did reuse the mechanic in its Master Sword DLC quests, so I'm not surprised they've leaned into it even further.

In terms of shrines overall, I think Zonai devices are the key to them feeling less repetitive. In Breath of the Wild a shrine could only be about combat, magnesis, stasis, bombs or the ice one. Occasionally you'd get one some obtuse puzzle, I vaguely remember one with stars, but most are just working off the same set of abilities you have at the start of the game. Zonai devices, in addition to the early game abilities, means there's just a lot more solutions you to problems. The solutions are almost always pretty obvious as the devices are there to be used, but nonetheless there are a lot of them and they work in their own fun ways. So broadly I'm in favour of the new shrines. Though from a overall game design I would try and reduce their number. I think having too many teleportation points kind of devalues the size of the world and the same piece of heart/stamina reward is a bit stale. Especially when the towers already let you get around so quickly and you can place three teleportation medallions of your own.

[vanguard333]

27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I agree on the no weapons point. Even more than it just being repetitive, there is a much better feeling of utilizing your surroundings when exploring an island than an enclosed area with items just left out for you. And considering you always get two weapons (or one weapon and fuse material if your smart) right at the entrance, it comes across less like utilizing stealth or gathering resources and more like "defeat these enemies on hard mode". Though I will note that Breath of the Wild also did reuse the mechanic in its Master Sword DLC quests, so I'm not surprised they've leaned into it even further.

In terms of shrines overall, I think Zonai devices are the key to them feeling less repetitive. In Breath of the Wild a shrine could only be about combat, magnesis, stasis, bombs or the ice one. Occasionally you'd get one some obtuse puzzle, I vaguely remember one with stars, but most are just working off the same set of abilities you have at the start of the game. Zonai devices, in addition to the early game abilities, means there's just a lot more solutions you to problems. The solutions are almost always pretty obvious as the devices are there to be used, but nonetheless there are a lot of them and they work in their own fun ways. So broadly I'm in favour of the new shrines. Though from a overall game design I would try and reduce their number. I think having too many teleportation points kind of devalues the size of the world and the same piece of heart/stamina reward is a bit stale. Especially when the towers already let you get around so quickly and you can place three teleportation medallions of your own.

Yeah; it was definitely much better on an island that in enclosed areas. Incidentally, I never played the Master Sword DLC quests for Breath of the Wild, or any of the Breath of the Wild DLC; I never bought the DLC and, with the Wii U eshop now closed, I can't.

Yeah; the Zonai devices are probably the reason. The zonai devices offer a greater variety in what the puzzles available. Incidentally, only once in Tears of the Kingdom did I solve a shrine puzzle using an unintended method: the very last shrine I did, which involved using ultrahand to combine metal spheres so they roll down a ramp a specific way and hit the target. The first two puzzles I completed as intended, but the very last puzzle was so flimsy that, even though I was sure I had the correct way to arrange the three spheres, they still didn't hit the target. So, I just fused the largest sphere to a two-handed sword and threw it at the target, and it worked!

Yeah, 152 shrines is a bit much and makes some of the teleportation points redundant and unneeded. That said, while I could be wrong about the numbers, I think the number of shrines on the surface is the same as in Breath of the Wild: 120 shrines on the surface, and 32 shrines in the sky, so the number of shrines is only larger because of the sky.

How close are you to completing the shrines?

[Jotari]

33 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Yeah; it was definitely much better on an island that in enclosed areas. Incidentally, I never played the Master Sword DLC quests for Breath of the Wild, or any of the Breath of the Wild DLC; I never bought the DLC and, with the Wii U eshop now closed, I can't.

Yeah; the Zonai devices are probably the reason. The zonai devices offer a greater variety in what the puzzles available. Incidentally, only once in Tears of the Kingdom did I solve a shrine puzzle using an unintended method: the very last shrine I did, which involved using ultrahand to combine metal spheres so they roll down a ramp a specific way and hit the target. The first two puzzles I completed as intended, but the very last puzzle was so flimsy that, even though I was sure I had the correct way to arrange the three spheres, they still didn't hit the target. So, I just fused the largest sphere to a two-handed sword and threw it at the target, and it worked!

Yeah, 152 shrines is a bit much and makes some of the teleportation points redundant and unneeded. That said, while I could be wrong about the numbers, I think the number of shrines on the surface is the same as in Breath of the Wild: 120 shrines on the surface, and 32 shrines in the sky, so the number of shrines is only larger because of the sky.

I think I've solved at least portions u intentionally. I recall one where you're meant to shoot down a metal ball from the rope it'd attached to and I just didn't realize that's what you were meant to be doing until the final part of the shrine. I think for the same puzzle I build a monstrous contraption from every available material to reach a high up chest when you're simply meant to shoot it down.

33 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

How close are you to completing the shrines?

Oh I doubt I'm anywhere close to finishing. I have a full stamina meter and one row of hearts. I think there are 20 hearts per row which means I'm eighty shrines short! Though I do have some uncashed in orbs and there might be another heart container before Ganondorf. You might also not be able to get the maximum amount. Still I'd say I have well over 50 shrines left. Though I have explored almost all of the abyss I reckon.

[vanguard333]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh I doubt I'm anywhere close to finishing. I have a full stamina meter and one row of hearts. I think there are 20 hearts per row which means I'm eighty shrines short! Though I do have some uncashed in orbs and there might be another heart container before Ganondorf. You might also not be able to get the maximum amount. Still I'd say I have well over 50 shrines left. Though I have explored almost all of the abyss I reckon.

There are 20 hearts per row. However, this game, like Breath of the Wild, has it that you can't achieve the maximum for both hearts and stamina. In addition to the shrines, there is one sidequest that offers a choice of either a heart container or a stamina wheel. Including that and all the heart containers obtained from main story bosses, the maximum health & stamina the player can have is 38 hearts and two extra stamina wheels or 40 hearts and 1-&-2/3 extra stamina wheels.

In total, there are 152 shrines in the game.

Exploring the depths helps a ton with finding shrines, as each lightroot in the depths corresponds to a shrine on the surface; it helped me a lot with finding the last few shrines that I was missing.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Exploring the depths helps a ton with finding shrines, as each lightroot in the depths corresponds to a shrine on the surface; it helped me a lot with finding the last few shrines that I was missing.

Oh, that knowledge does help. I've also been a bit behind on shrine completions as I only got the ability to target them with the sensor a few days ago. I thought it was a puzzling they removed that feature until I was trying to get the electric equipment for the main quest and the researcher dude told me it's be easier if I could sense chests. Only then did I go back to Robbie and unlock it along with Hero mode and the warp medallions (which I had already obtained from the Yiga) all at once. Hero Mode in particular I was really missing as it helps a tonne in figuring out which sky islands I've already checked out.

 

Side note, this game has data transfer as I mentioned already. Yet it seems they've only used it for the singular purpose of importing horses. I would have liked a lot of it it imported all the pictures you've already registered for the compendium. Photographing every enemy, weapon and food ingredient in the game was fun in Breath of the Wild, but I don't find much value in doing it all over again for the exact same items.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

Another thing I thought of giving my completed thoughts on, now that I've explored them all: the sky islands.

Overall, they are a ton of fun to explore. I'm probably biased because I find sky islands a really cool fantasy concept, so actually being able to explore a set of them seamlessly is really cool and they make great use of the zonai devices and the skydiving mechanic. That said, there is one thing I would've liked to see more of with them.

I don't want more sky islands, but I want them to have more context. The Great Sky Island was part of old Hyrule that was lifted into the sky, the flower-shaped islands were made to record bits of the history of the founding of Hyrule, the skydiving challenge islands were a coming-of-age trial for young Zonai, and there's one sky island that's an old Zonai forge... and I've just exhausted the list of sky islands that have any context or history behind them whatsoever.

The Sky Islands were probably the game's best opportunity for letting the player uncover knowledge of the lost Zonai civilization, which was already lost around the time Rauru and Sonia founded Hyrule. The skydiving challenge islands are fun, but the fact that they shed a bit of light on Zonai society makes them even better than they would've been if they were just three minigames.

 

On 6/18/2023 at 10:57 PM, Jotari said:

Side note, this game has data transfer as I mentioned already. Yet it seems they've only used it for the singular purpose of importing horses. I would have liked a lot of it it imported all the pictures you've already registered for the compendium. Photographing every enemy, weapon and food ingredient in the game was fun in Breath of the Wild, but I don't find much value in doing it all over again for the exact same items.

I've heard that, if the player has completed the Champion's Ballad DLC on Switch, the group photo will be in Link and Zelda's house in Tears of the Kingdom.

Importing pictures for the compendium would've been neat.

Edited July 4, 2023 by vanguard333

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

I've heard that, if the player has completed the Champion's Ballad DLC on Switch, the group photo will be in Link and Zelda's house in Tears of the Kingdom.

I didn't do it, and I think its still in my house this time around.

[Jotari]

I've just beaten the Spirit Temple and I'm pretty dissapointed it wasn't a real dungeon. I think there's a lot they could have done in terms of puzzles by utilizing the Zonai Devices in anew way. Overall most of the dungeons have been underwhelming. By far the one I liked the most was the Gerudo one as the classic light mirror puzzles were a lot more involved than he simple "go to these five spots" if the other dungeons. My least favorite has been the Goron one l, though maybe that's because I just played it poorly, choosing to beeline for he switches via climbing instead of using the railway carts. But the open space and multiple floors with railway tracks transitioning it there made things confusing and didn't exactly encourage me to do anything but simply follow the mini map and climb/ascend to my destinations.

[vanguard333]

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I've just beaten the Spirit Temple and I'm pretty disappointed it wasn't a real dungeon. I think there's a lot they could have done in terms of puzzles by utilizing the Zonai Devices in anew way. Overall most of the dungeons have been underwhelming. By far the one I liked the most was the Gerudo one as the classic light mirror puzzles were a lot more involved than he simple "go to these five spots" if the other dungeons. My least favorite has been the Goron one l, though maybe that's because I just played it poorly, choosing to beeline for he switches via climbing instead of using the railway carts. But the open space and multiple floors with railway tracks transitioning it there made things confusing and didn't exactly encourage me to do anything but simply follow the mini map and climb/ascend to my destinations.

Yeah; the Spirit Temple was really anticlimactic. The Spirit Temple approach is fantastic, and I was really looking forward to the dungeon itself, only for the dungeon to just be a boss arena. I was picturing a combination of ancient ruins and modern factory; that the explanation for the secret stone room being inaccessible would be an elaborate security system that has to be deactivated at 4 or 5 points, etc.

The Gerudo dungeon definitely had the best puzzles, with the Goron dungeon being a close second for me (but I actually used the railway carts). However, my overall favourite dungeon would have to be the Rito dungeon, if only because of how much it makes use of the air and gliding and how unique it is.

 

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I didn't do it, and I think its still in my house this time around.

Ah; thanks.

Speaking of houses, I like the customizable dream home overlooking Tarrey Town as a concept, and it is by no means bad in execution, but I wish there were more types of connecting rooms and more than one room type that has a door. I basically just use the house I built for storing extra weapons and shields.

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Yeah; the Spirit Temple was really anticlimactic. The Spirit Temple approach is fantastic, and I was really looking forward to the dungeon itself, only for the dungeon to just be a boss arena. I was picturing a combination of ancient ruins and modern factory; that the explanation for the secret stone room being inaccessible would be an elaborate security system that has to be deactivated at 4 or 5 points, etc.

The Gerudo dungeon definitely had the best puzzles, with the Goron dungeon being a close second for me (but I actually used the railway carts). However, my overall favourite dungeon would have to be the Rito dungeon, if only because of how much it makes use of the air and gliding and how unique it is.

I would unhesitatingly rate them Gerudo->Rito->Zora->Goron. Though I think placing Rito ahead of Zora might come down to it being the first one I played and this the freshest. The Zora Temple might be better if I look at it in a vacuum. Rito temple definitely had an epic approach to the dungeon if that counts though.

Really hoping Ganondorf isn't a repeat of the Spirit Temple and that we get something functioning as Ganon's Castle.

Oh yeah, I guess Hyrule Castle is technically a dungeon too, fulfilling the loose criteria of having a unique map and a boss. Eh, it works for what it is and they were always going to be restrained by having to use the same layout as Breath of the Wild, but I think a bit more effort could have been put into it. Ideally in terms of game design they should be having you utilize all four sage powers at once by this point.

[vanguard333]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:16 PM, Jotari said:

I would unhesitatingly rate them Gerudo->Rito->Zora->Goron. Though I think placing Rito ahead of Zora might come down to it being the first one I played and this the freshest. The Zora Temple might be better if I look at it in a vacuum. Rito temple definitely had an epic approach to the dungeon if that counts though.

Really hoping Ganondorf isn't a repeat of the Spirit Temple and that we get something functioning as Ganon's Castle.

Oh yeah, I guess Hyrule Castle is technically a dungeon too, fulfilling the loose criteria of having a unique map and a boss. Eh, it works for what it is and they were always going to be restrained by having to use the same layout as Breath of the Wild, but I think a bit more effort could have been put into it. Ideally in terms of game design they should be having you utilize all four sage powers at once by this point.

Interesting order. Mine would probably be Rito -> Gerudo -> Goron -> Zora, excluding dungeon approaches (though it is hard to not include the dungeon approaches in the comparison since the Gerudo dungeon approach is technically within the dungeon itself).

Yeah; I'm hoping so as well. I suspect, however, that it will be more like a linear gauntlet. I'll be finding out soon since I've completed all the other main story content; I just want to hunt enough monster parts to upgrade certain armour pieces first.

I would say Hyrule Castle counts more than it did in Breath of the Wild, since this time around, a certain character forces the player to explore the whole thing this time around. I like the open structure of the castle, but, in Breath of the Wild at least, that was mitigated by the fact that there wasn't much reason to explore the entire dungeon; I just found the quickest route directly to the throne room and fought Calamity Ganon.

I agree that the game should've been willing to assume that the player has the sage abilities at that point.

 

EDIT: Yesterday, I fought all four King Gleeoks (three in the sky, and one in the Depths), which was a lot of fun and meant that I had done almost everything in the game (I have by no means 100% the game; not even close; I just mean that I've done every bit of story content, every dungeon, all the sky islands, a lot of the Depths, etc.), so, today, I decided to fight Ganondorf and complete the game. Here are my thoughts on the final boss approach, final boss fight, and ending:

Spoiler

I was correct in thinking that the final boss approach would be just a linear gauntlet of enemies. So, basically, Ganon's Tower from Ocarina of Time if it was just the staircase. But, it is a good linear gauntlet of enemies. There's a Lynel fight, and there's even an optional rematch with Phantom Ganon (sadly as a Gloom Hands rather than a repeat of the proper Phantom Ganon fight from Hyrule Castle, but I still fought it anyway). It is a lot of fun. One cool thing that happens about halfway through the gauntlet is that you lose the sage powers.

After the enemy gauntlet is the hallways from the beginning of the game, which is neat. You can clear the rubble that covered the last set of murals to reveal murals showing the Imprisoning War and Zelda becoming the Light Dragon, which is cool. Another neat touch is that, at the bottom of the chasm that Ganondorf created at the beginning of the game, there's a torch that's clearly supposed to be the one that Zelda was carrying.

The final monster army fight before fighting Ganondorf is okay; it isn't anything spectacular outside of the arrival of the sages, but it's not bad.

Before the fight, Ganondorf reveals that one of his motives is that he believes that a peace-loving world is a weak, cowardly one, and he wishes to create a world where people have to fight and get stronger to survive. It's not Wind Waker Ganondorf, but it's interesting, and it ties in with his arrogance and his belief that he is the strongest.

The Ganondorf fight is fantastic. I thought I would be disappointed that he rehydrates before the fight, but then I remembered that Phantom Ganon is essentially a mummified-Ganondorf fight. The first phase is really neat; it's a bit easy if you're good at flurry rushes, but that's part of the point: this is Ganondorf testing Link by fighting him with only the power he had before obtaining the secret stone. The challenge ramps up significantly once he unleashes his power as the Demon King.

The Demon King phases are a ton of fun; initially, Ganondorf unleashes five copies of himself to help him against Link while the sages arrive one-by-one. Once the sages arrive, you only really need to focus on the real Ganondorf, but Ganondorf is by no means weak. One thing that stands out is that he can dodge a flurry rush, and he can unleash a flurry rush. He also combines his weapon attacks with gloom, and some of his attacks can not only break heart containers; they can erase heart containers entirely. I would perhaps have liked to see more magic from him, but I like how well the gloom magic is integrated into the rest of his arsenal. One thing I find really cool is that the game recreates Dead Man's Volley in a way that I did not expect: the best opportunity to do a flurry rush against Ganondorf that he won't dodge is by perfect-dodging one of Ganondorf's flurry rushes, so it's a Dead Man's Volley of flurry rushes instead of spell attacks.

The Master Sword is not necessary for fighting Ganondorf, but it is indestructible during the Ganondorf fight and does a lot of damage, which is a great incentive for using it against Ganondorf.

The final phase is Ganondorf swallowing a secret stone and becoming the Demon Dragon in a bid to kill Link and flying into the sky, and the Light Dragon showing up to help Link. The cutscene leading into this is spectacular, but part of me worried that this would be a repeat of the Dark Beast Ganon fight: all spectacle against a large and immobile enemy that can't hit Link. The fight is definitely meant mainly as a spectacle, but it is better than the Dark Beast Ganon in every way. In fact, this fight is almost exactly what I wanted from Calamity Ganon in Breath of the Wild; in BotW, I wanted a fight above Hyrule Castle against Calamity Ganon's flying boar head form that made use of the paraglider and was like a more challenging version of clearing Malice off of Naydra. This fight is a lot like what I was picturing, and in many ways even better than that.

How the fight works is that you ride the Light Dragon as it flies above the Demon Dragon, then dive down and strike the Demon Dragon's weak points. There are two main things that differentiate it from Dark Beast Ganon: the first is that the volley of gloom breath attacks that the Demon Dragon unleashes can actually hit Link if the player hasn't practiced diving and doesn't have the glide set, and the second is that the weakpoints are harder to hit with a bow and even the most powerful bows in the game won't do much damage to the weakpoints, so the actual strategy is for Link to carefully dive down to where the weakpoints are (anywhere else on the Demon Dragon inflicts a lot of gloom) and destroy them at melee range using the Master Sword. The spectacle is easily the best part of the fight, but the fight is actually fun.

Now for the ending: diving to save Zelda is a really cool moment; this time, Link will catch her. That said, when Zelda wakes up after they reach the ground, it would've been fitting to see Zelda at least hug Link. Spirit Tracks Zelda hugged Link when she got her human body back and Link caught her as she was falling through the air; why not here?

Zelda returning to human form was inevitable, but I think even @Jotari will be fine with it since the game heavily implies that her human form is restored through a variation of recall done by Rauru and Sonia's spirits, channeled through Link's arm. The weirder decision for me was that Link's arm gets restored at the same time as Zelda's human form. I get it; it's a fitting way to get rid of the arm's abilities, and I will admit that part of me did spent the start of Tears of the Kingdom wondering what happened to the Shiekah Slate (while the rest of me knew it was removed because the slate was based on the Wii U and this is a Switch game). But that could've been explained by the arm losing its powers, and I think Rauru's arm remaining would've been a fitting reminder of what the kingdom just went through. That said, perhaps the arm being restored would've been more fitting if the game had established something along the lines of Link being at risk of his body eventually rejecting the arm or something like that.

Since I did everything required for it, I got the true ending, which again happens after the credits. This one is Link, Zelda and the sages bidding a heartfelt farewell to Mineru. It's a sad scene, but it's also heartwarming in that Mineru says that she knows that Hyrule is being left in safe hands.

Overall, it's a fantastic ending. I was recently reminded of a game that I felt would've been a masterpiece if not for one thing done during the ending that nearly ruined it for me (that game being Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana), so I'm really glad to see Tears of the Kingdom's final boss fight and ending stick the landing on pretty much every level.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by vanguard333

[Etrurian emperor]

My headcanon is that the villagers of Hatano secretly hate Link. There seems to be some village wide conspiracy aimed against Link. The majority of villagers pretend not to know Link and insist he's just some passing traveler despite knowing fully well Link lives in their little villages. They might even have abused the law to deprive him of his house and transfer ownership to Zelda. Jokes on them though because rather then Link having to sleep under a bridge Zelda seems to have offered to share the house with him.

In general there's a weird trend of characters thinking Link needs direction to places he's already been to, or just flat out not recognizing him. I was prepared to be a bit annoyed about the Zora's not recognizing him despite it being stated last game that Link grew up with the Zora's, and that the villagers have clear memories of him. Luckily Zora's domain avoids the trend because the innkeeper gets very giddy about a visit from her ''Linny'' which was pretty cute. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

My headcanon is that the villagers of Hatano secretly hate Link. There seems to be some village wide conspiracy aimed against Link. The majority of villagers pretend not to know Link and insist he's just some passing traveler despite knowing fully well Link lives in their little villages. They might even have abused the law to deprive him of his house and transfer ownership to Zelda. Jokes on them though because rather then Link having to sleep under a bridge Zelda seems to have offered to share the house with him.

In general there's a weird trend of characters thinking Link needs direction to places he's already been to, or just flat out not recognizing him. I was prepared to be a bit annoyed about the Zora's not recognizing him despite it being stated last game that Link grew up with the Zora's, and that the villagers have clear memories of him. Luckily Zora's domain avoids the trend because the innkeeper gets very giddy about a visit from her ''Linny'' which was pretty cute. 

Related to this, I'm scratching my head and wondering if Calamity Ganon I'd meant to be in any way related to Demon King Ganondorf... like obviously they're the same entity, right? Ganondorf is the human form Ganon is the monster form, we've always known that...only...they really aren't talking like that's the case in game. Ganondorf makes no reference to Breath of the Wild and none of the other characters make a connection either.l, though Zelda at least dislikes Ganondorf's name. Even the terminology for their corrupting darkness is different, Malice and Gloom. The only connection that seems to exist is the Yiga, though it's not outside the realm of possibility that they moved onto Demon King Ganondorf after Calamity Ganon was destroyed. I don't think they have any direct connection to the villain in either case, they're just obsessive fanboys.

Also, where are the Divine Beasts?

Edited June 26, 2023 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

48 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Related to this, I'm scratching my head and wondering if Calamity Ganon I'd meant to be in any way related to Demon King Ganondorf... like obviously they're the same entity, right? Ganondorf is the human form Ganon is the monster form, we've always known that...only...they really aren't talking like that's the case in game. Ganondorf makes no reference to Breath of the Wild and none of the other characters make a connection either. l, though Zelda at least dislikes Ganondorf's name. Even the terminology for their corrupting darkness is different, Malice and Gloom. The only connection that seems to exist is the Yiga, though it's not outside the realm of possibility that they moved onto Demon King Ganondorf after Calamity Ganon was destroyed. I don't think they have any direct connection to the villain in either case, they're just obsessive fanboys.

I think the idea, from the image of all the gloom leaking out of Ganondorf before the seal breaks, that Calamity Ganon was essentially Ganondorf's malice congealed and made manifest. If that was the case, then it makes sense that Ganondorf knows nothing about the Calamity, as it was essentially the result of his power leaking out of the seal.

There are a few references to Calamity Ganon in TOTK besides the Yiga Clan; at the school in Hateno Village, Link can teach a class about the calamity, and there's another reference that is made if the player completes all 152 shrines:

Spoiler

At the Temple of Time on the Great Sky Island, the player will be rewarded with an armour called the "Ancient Hero Aspect", which makes Link's appearance that of the Ancient Hero that first fought Calamity Ganon. In doing so, the armour also reveals that the Ancient Hero was visibly part-Zonai, part-Hylian.

There's also another reference that is made in the very last phase of Ganondorf's boss fight:

Spoiler

When Ganondorf swallows the secret stone and transforms into the Demon Dragon, his dragon form emerges from below Hyrule Castle and spirals around it the exact same way Calamity Ganon did at the start of BOTW, and the Demon Dragon is initially covered in gloom in a way that makes it look almost exactly the same as Calamity Ganon.

 

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

In general there's a weird trend of characters thinking Link needs direction to places he's already been to, or just flat out not recognizing him.

I imagine part of that might've been the dev team being unable to think of a better reason to have the character give directions in case the player hasn't played BOTW.

[Jotari]

While I played the final boss battle I had an epiphany. That it makes perfect sense Ganondorf could make a fake Zelda. As he has a sacred stone and it's basically the exact same power as the sages use for their projections....but then I remembered that the fake Zelda was there before he got the sacred stone and that said sacred stone actually has nothing directly to do with Zelda XD So what seemed perfect makes me dislike the memory with the fake Zelda even more. That being said, I think we can pretty easily state that Phantom Ganon in this game is made in the same way that the sages use their projections.

[Zanarkin]

32 minutes ago, Jotari said:

While I played the final boss battle I had an epiphany. That it makes perfect sense Ganondorf could make a fake Zelda. As he has a sacred stone and it's basically the exact same power as the sages use for their projections....but then I remembered that the fake Zelda was there before he got the sacred stone and that said sacred stone actually has nothing directly to do with Zelda XD So what seemed perfect makes me dislike the memory with the fake Zelda even more. That being said, I think we can pretty easily state that Phantom Ganon in this game is made in the same way that the sages use their projections.

The stones only amplify the user's power. It is perfectly possible for Ganondorf to be able to produce a zelda image. We don't know the abilities of this old Zelda image when compared with the powered up zelda. The only time we see it in action, Ganondorf was close by. He might have teleported in or something, but there is little indication for this. So distance could be impacted. Also, the old fake zelda didn't turn into phantom ganon. The new Zelda does. It could still explain how Zelda happens to be everywhere. Ganondorf makes a phantom ganons that make a zelda all over the place.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Zanarkin said:

The stones only amplify the user's power. It is perfectly possible for Ganondorf to be able to produce a zelda image. We don't know the abilities of this old Zelda image when compared with the powered up zelda. The only time we see it in action, Ganondorf was close by. He might have teleported in or something, but there is little indication for this. So distance could be impacted. Also, the old fake zelda didn't turn into phantom ganon. The new Zelda does. It could still explain how Zelda happens to be everywhere. Ganondorf makes a phantom ganons that make a zelda all over the place.

They certainly say they enhance natural power, yet, at the same time, summoning a projection doesn't seem to be a natural power any of the sages have.

[Zanarkin]

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

They certainly say they enhance natural power, yet, at the same time, summoning a projection doesn't seem to be a natural power any of the sages have.

That is a good point. That said, the fake zelda doesn't necessarily have any issues with being a power pre-sacred stone.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I think the idea, from the image of all the gloom leaking out of Ganondorf before the seal breaks, that Calamity Ganon was essentially Ganondorf's malice congealed and made manifest. If that was the case, then it makes sense that Ganondorf knows nothing about the Calamity, as it was essentially the result of his power leaking out of the seal.

There are a few references to Calamity Ganon in TOTK besides the Yiga Clan; at the school in Hateno Village, Link can teach a class about the calamity, and there's another reference that is made if the player completes all 152 shrines:

  Reveal hidden contents

At the Temple of Time on the Great Sky Island, the player will be rewarded with an armour called the "Ancient Hero Aspect", which makes Link's appearance that of the Ancient Hero that first fought Calamity Ganon. In doing so, the armour also reveals that the Ancient Hero was visibly part-Zonai, part-Hylian.

There's also another reference that is made in the very last phase of Ganondorf's boss fight:

  Reveal hidden contents

When Ganondorf swallows the secret stone and transforms into the Demon Dragon, his dragon form emerges from below Hyrule Castle and spirals around it the exact same way Calamity Ganon did at the start of BOTW, and the Demon Dragon is initially covered in gloom in a way that makes it look almost exactly the same as Calamity Ganon.

 

I imagine part of that might've been the dev team being unable to think of a better reason to have the character give directions in case the player hasn't played BOTW.

Oh yeah, the Calamity happened, my point wasn't that references to it are non existent, it's that the game never actually ties those events to Ganondorf, except by way of the Yiga worshiping both. It even goes so far as to mention the Calamity in Ganondorf's profile, but only that it, pretty much by accident, led to his return by weakening his seal.

3 hours ago, Zanarkin said:

That is a good point. That said, the fake zelda doesn't necessarily have any issues with being a power pre-sacred stone.

Well sure, Ganondorf can have any random power the writers want to give him, both pre and post getting the stone, but I would have preferred no fake Zelda before the stone.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Oh yeah, the Calamity happened, my point wasn't that references to it are non existent, it's that the game never actually ties those events to Ganondorf, except by way of the Yiga worshiping both. It even goes so far as to mention the Calamity in Ganondorf's profile, but only that it, pretty much by accident, led to his return by weakening his seal.

Well sure, Ganondorf can have any random power the writers want to give him, both pre and post getting the stone, but I would have preferred no fake Zelda before the stone.

Oh, I see. I agree that it could’ve been tied in better.

My interpretation was that Phantom Ganon is the one with illusion powers, not Ganondorf, mainly because this is a very strange version of Phantom Ganon. Most versions of Phantom Ganon are just mindless puppets of Ganondorf’s will; this one however, while completely loyal to Ganondorf, seems to have a personality and mind of its own. It talks to characters, it recognizes Link as a potential threat while Ganondorf is dismissive of Link, it sabotages the various regions of Hyrule despite that going against Ganondorf’s desire to win through overwhelming might; in short, its behaviour is more like that of a loyal servant with their own thoughts and ideas. If Phantom Ganon really is its own being, then it would make sense for it to have its own powers.

 

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

While I played the final boss battle I had an epiphany.

You have played the final boss battle? Cool; I played it a few days ago and typed up my thoughts on it earlier in this forum. What did you think of the final boss battle and the ending of the game?

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Oh, I see. I agree that it could’ve been tied in better.

My interpretation was that Phantom Ganon is the one with illusion powers, not Ganondorf, mainly because this is a very strange version of Phantom Ganon. Most versions of Phantom Ganon are just mindless puppets of Ganondorf’s will; this one however, while completely loyal to Ganondorf, seems to have a personality and mind of its own. It talks to characters, it recognizes Link as a potential threat while Ganondorf is dismissive of Link, it sabotages the various regions of Hyrule despite that going against Ganondorf’s desire to win through overwhelming might; in short, its behaviour is more like that of a loyal servant with their own thoughts and ideas. If Phantom Ganon really is its own being, then it would make sense for it to have its own powers.

If Ganondorf didn't show up to give a big speech after the Phantom Ganon boss battle I might agree with you, but from the way I see it, Phantom Ganon is just an extension of Ganondorf.

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

You have played the final boss battle? Cool; I played it a few days ago and typed up my thoughts on it earlier in this forum. What did you think of the final boss battle and the ending of the game?

Not surprised there wasn't a real final dungeon, but still a bit dissapointed. Ganondorf himself was pretty basic, felt pretty much just like fighting a Phantom Ganon, only you need to rely more on shield bashing than flurry rushing. I think someone said something about boss damage being poorly scaled compared to regular enemies and it's very much true. The normal moblins and lizalfos before him felt more threatening. The final phase was cool as a set piece, but felt too basic in terms of gameplay.

 

Spoiler

You're right I'm fine with Zelda being restored, but in regards to Link's arm, the obvious best thing to would be to take away Rauru's arm and not restore his own so Link becomes a lefty again!

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Jotari