To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Thracia 776]

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, ping said:

Definitely seems like something a modern FE game would do (although I don't know about the differing physical weapons). Maybe it can still be blamed on storage capacity on the SNES cartridges.

They went ahead and gave us four variants of Knight, four unpromoted mono-weapon cavs plus unique promotions, and still retained the typical two-weapon Cavalier + Paladin. Threw in Bard when Mage would functionally make no difference for Lewyn, three Wyvern classes in a one-promotion game, and has that Forrest oddity.

I don't think it was storage.😝 Or it was, yet they wasted their limited capacity on arguably sillier things.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They went ahead and gave us four variants of Knight, four unpromoted mono-weapon cavs plus unique promotions, and still retained the typical two-weapon Cavalier + Paladin. Threw in Bard when Mage would functionally make no difference for Lewyn, three Wyvern classes in a one-promotion game, and has that Forrest oddity.

I don't think it was storage.😝 Or it was, yet they wasted their limited capacity on arguably sillier things.

Don't forget distinct female versions of most of those classes too. Which I don't think the previous game had for knights and cavalry (though they did for mages). And this is in a game with a relatively small pool of available units compared to other games.

Edited April 17 by Jotari

[Revier]

Yeah, they actually went out of their way to make sprites for lady archers, lady swordfighters, even lady paladins, on top of the "traditionally feminine" classes(wizards, clerics and pegasi). Quite impressive honestly.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Revier said:

Yeah, they actually went out of their way to make sprites for lady archers, lady swordfighters, even lady paladins, on top of the "traditionally feminine" classes(wizards, clerics and pegasi). Quite impressive honestly.

The female paladins (and princess) even get an extra weapon type.

Edited April 17 by Jotari

[ping]

FE4 Chapter 10: Light and Darkness

Perlucos (turn 0)

Spoiler

As I was discussing in the last update, I went back to last chapter's last save to trim down Julia's inventory a bit more. Specifically, she sells Silence (which will go to Ced), the Skill Ring, and the Miracle Band (both still at the Pawnbroker by the end of the update).

Now, back to the regular broadcast...

__

...which was once a vibrant and wealthy hub of commerce for all of Jugdral. Now, though, only a dying land choked by the Empire and Loptyrian Order lies before Seliph.

At Chronos Castle, the seemingly mad rule of Queen Hilda has condemned countless citizens to savage, merciless deaths. And in the Rados region, Bishop Morrigan, under the command of Archbishop Manfroy, conducts child hunt after child hunt. Wealth. Liberty. Hope Even life itself... All crumbled through the people's fingers.

As the evil cult plies its sacrificial rituals and pile the bodies of their victims ever higher, Seliph knows he cannot leave Miletos be. Greeted by raucous cheers from the people, the liberation army routed the Empire's men in a fierce battle, freeing the city of Perlucos. The hope of Miletos had slowly been rotting away in the Empire's hands, but at long last, the arrival of Seliph and his liberation army breathes new life into the nation's future.

Well, Seliph promised Julia to go shopping in Miletos in their convo last chapter, so I can't say that the Miletos Distric just fell out of the skies to feature in this chapter. But it's really a bit of a downgrade, as far as the setting goes: The second half of the game started in Isaach, whose war against Grannvale was constantly a background factor for Sigurd's story, then continued to the Thracian peninsula, where Quan, Ethlyn, and their killer made their home. And now we come to Miletos, where Sigurd would like to buy an icecream sundae for Julia.

Now, this chapter isn't just about freeing Miletos, it's also the triumphant return to Chalphy (so to speak, Seliph himself was never here, after all). But I'm wondering if the border region of Verdane and Grannvale would've made for a better stage for this: Splice together the maps of the prologue and Ch.1 and cut off the part west of Marpha, which is to say Nordion and Verdane Castle. Genoa could be the home castle, with the order of objectives being Marpha (optional) -> Evans -> Jungby -> Chalphy.

This would allow plenty of characters to visit emotionally charged locations: Marpha is where Seliph's parents first met, and for Bridget and Aideen's children, visiting their mothers' home would be a Big Deal, as well. I wouldn't add Nordion to the map, but Ares and Raquesis's kids could have some dialogue talking about being close to home, too. Taking a quick peek at the endgame's map, you'd have to reshuffle enemies a little bit (seems that André jr. will arrive from the direction of Jungby, which would make less sense if Seliph had already captured it), but I think it could work quite well.

But back to what actually happens...:

: "Heh... I wonder what it must be like to be as terrified of our sacrifices to the dark lord as the peasants must be."
: "I've seen it myself. Knowing their children are doomed to the stake nigh drives them mad with grief... Particularly the mothers..."
: "Hmhmhm... Magnificent. Let them learn now the true meaning of despair. Let their will to live erode and crumble. Let them become little more than ragdolls. Let them become the ideal slaves for the rise of the Loptyr Empire."
: "Also, it seems we've captured far too many children. This castle simply doesn't have the room for them all. How shall I handle this?"
: "Send them to Belhalla at once. I will groom them personally, I think. Friends, family... it matters not. By the end they will despise each other, ready to kill their own in power's name. Only the fittest will survive, and these fittest will become the ideal citizens of Loptyr's new world."
: "But Lord Julius... What of your father? What of Emperor Arvis? The emperor refuses to allow any child hunts under his watch."
: "My father? Heh... My father is not worth fretting over, Ishtar. I will persuade him easily..."

Way to take a stand, Ishtar.

I get it, she's probably dead as a doornail if Julius at any point decides that he doesn't love her anymore, and she presumably knows that, but she seems distinctly unfazed by the prospect of more dead children than the castle can hold.

: "He did, did he? ...You know, Ishtar, I daresay the prince has quite the love for you. Hell, I'm already hearing the wedding bells ring!"
: "I... I don't-"
: "Open your ears, Ishtar! Freege is by far the most esteemed of Grannvale's noble houses, and I, like the Emperor himself, am of House Velthomer. There is nobody in this land who could ever be worthier to the prince's hand than you!"
: "A-as you say..."
: "Now, then! We have more pressing matters ahead. Those rebels, murderers of my dear husband and son, are coming our way, Ishtar! Now [sic] only that, they dared to steal Alster from us! Never has history given Freege a more dire enemy than Seliph, his father and all of his kin! I shall await them here at Chronos, that I may give them the welcome they deserve. You run along to Miletos. After all, those brats won't arrange their own journey to Belhalla!"
: "Yes, mother..."

This part does a somewhat better job at making Ishtar look moderately sympathetic - not just because Hilda's callousness, but also because Ishtar's (short) lines have more of a "I have to get out of here" quality to them. With a bit of goodwill, one could assume that she's just holding herself together when her not-explicitly-abusive-but-holy-red-flags-batman boyfriend is present.

: "A small few children escaped our hold amidst the cover of confusion from our deployment. What are your orders?"
: "Excuse me?! How dare anyone under my command be so incompetent... No matter. Kill them all. Teach them all a lesson. Relay this command to General Riddell at Rados. He is to put them all down at once."

Of course, it helps Ishtar that basically everybody looks like the lesser even when compared to a woman who doesn't just go along with the child hunts, but is furious when some babies aren't stabbed, nagadamnit.

: "But... But if we get..."
: "Don't cry! It... It'll all be fine! Don't ya know? The crusaders are coming! They'll save us all. I know it!"
: "Sniff... I guess you're right. The crusaders'll come... They will... They will..."

: "Ah, General Riddell. We've got orders for you from Queen Hilda. She wants you to move out at once."
: "Excellent. It's high time that we had work which better befits knights. I am absolutely fed up with hunting children! I swear, if I have to hunt even one more child..."
: "Oh, what a pity that is. You see, we've a handful of escaped brats who are all in sore need of an execution."
: "Oh, for the love of..."
: "What's this? Are you, a loyal imperial general, dissatisfied with your orders? Do I smell a filthy traitor to the trust of His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Arvis?"
: "...No sir. I could... I could never consider betraying his majesty... Very well. I suppose I have no choice..."

__

Funny dialogue, I have to admit.

: "Heh... The shock stripped you of your memory all those years ago, did it? Perfect. Now, come!"
: "N-no! Take your hands off me!"
: "Heh heh... You cannot resist fate, my dear. Now, cease your struggle and come along..."
: "No! Ahh... Lord Seliph... Help... me..."

Funny dialogue, I have to admit. If Kaga hadn't been a coward, he would've had Manfroy kaga Arion like this in the previous chapter, too.

: "We've got another problem, too. It's Julia... She's gone. I've searched high and low, but she's nowhere in sight."
: "No! Oh, no... How could this be..."
: " I can't believe it, but that's how it is... My guess is the enemy seized her. But why... Why would they only target Julia? This doesn't make any sense..."
: "Gah... Hold on, Julia, wherever you are... No matter what happens, we'll find you!"

I'm loathe to say this, but Deirdre's abduction was much more well-written. For Deirdre, there was at least some set-up - it's established that Manfroy is looking for her, and Deirdre's feeling of dread (which Julia shares) comes back in dramatic irony when her acting on it (running after Sigurd because she felt impeding doom if they came apart) allows Manfroy to kidnap her without anybody's notice. Julia's abduction... just happens.

But that's it for the update, as far as the story is concerned. The map honestly seems very straightforward - we start at 3 o'clock and move clockwise through Chronos, Rados, and Miletos to Chalphy. A few villages have to be rescued along the way (the red dots on the water are pirates/brigands, and so are the two separate dots near Rados), as well as six children just north of Chronos.

____

These children are, I assume, only threatened by Riddell and his knights. Depending on how quickly they move up the road, they might arrive very quickly though.

The group as a whole is comparable to the Grannvalian reinforcements on the previous map, which is to say a group of promoted cavs with a variety of Silver Weapons (and three Mage Knights with Elthunder). Riddell himself is quite dangerous, too - no holy blood like the previous John Constipatius, but he has both the Pursuit and the Critical skill. Not somebody you'd want to attack in melee.

__

The group closest to use mostly consists of Dark Mages, with varying tomes. Marked red are two Hel wielders, which are obviously extremely dangerous unless they move last. Purple are two (otherwise unarmed) Sleep users, and yellow are two long-ranged Fenrir users.

Guarding Chronos is Queen Hilda, who is pretty straightforwardly very strong. 50 Atk hitting Res two-shots most of our team, and she has Pursuit with a still respectable (considering she uses a fire spell) 17 AS. The Queen class also has Charm as an innate skill, although Hilda doesn't seem to really apply that aura to anybody.

Morrigan is about what you'd expect from a Dark Bishop. Fairly tanky. Weighed down by their tomes. The three castle guards all use Hel, so you'll need a healer nearby to approach Morrigan, but since the guards don't move while their boss is alive, you should be fine if you take that precaution.

On to the arena, which, as a little curiosity, also features a Queen using Bolganone. Here's the full line-up:

(1) Hasmann - Lv.13 Wind Mage
	39 HP | 2 Def | 8 Res
	[Elwind] - 24 Atk | 98 Hit | 20 Avo | 10 AS

(2) Grants - Lv.16 Paladin
	56 HP | 13 Def | 6 Res
	[Steel Sword] - 23 Atk | 106 Hit | 20 Avo | 10 AS

(2R) Closroi - Lv.16 Arch Knight
	56 HP | 12 Def
	[Silver Bow] - 32 Atk | 94 Hit | 8 Avo | 4 AS

(3) Roland - Lv.19 Hero - Skill: Pursuit
	59 HP | 12 Def | 4 Res
	[Silver Blade] - 37 Atk | 94 Hit | 22 Avo | 11 AS
	[Wind Sword]   - 18 Atk (vs. Res)

(4) Massigli - Lv.22 Dark Mage
	62 HP | 9 Def | 16 Res
	[Jormungand] - 36 Atk | 118 Hit | 4 Avo | 2 AS

(5) Riva - Lv.25 Great Knight
	65 HP | 17 Def | 5 Res
	[Silver Axe] - 41 Atk | 98 Hit | -8 Avo | -4 AS

(5R) - Gloria - Lv.25 Sniper - Skill: Pursuit
	65 HP | 14 Def
	[Silver Bow] - 37 Atk | 108 Hit | 22 Avo | 11 AS

(6) Nothe - Lv.28 Dark Bishop - Item: Shield Ring - Skill: Pursuit
	68 HP | 12+5 Def | 20 Res
	[Jormungand] - 43 Atk | 126 Hit | 12 Avo | 6 AS

(7) Indra - Lv.30 Queen - Item: Speed Ring - Skill: Charm
	65 HP | 19 Def | 21 Res
	[Bolganone] - 41 Atk | 108 Hit | 28 Avo | 14 AS

Note: fireemblemwiki.org lists Adept as skills for both (1) Hasmann and (3) Roland. I never saw it proc on either of them, and opponents in the arena generally only have skills innate to their class, so I believe the wiki to be mistaken, but I can't disprove it ingame.

Pursuit on (6) Nothe and Charm on (7) Indra are class skills, but the latter doesn't improve Indra's hit/avo.

The wiki mistakenly lists a Silver *Sword* as Roland's melee weapon: https://i.imgur.com/Rfp7B6K.png

---

And here everybody who went through the arena right away - which is almost everybody. The only ones missing, with the expectation that they might get enough money for a full Paragon run down the line, are Dermott, Oifey, and Hannibal. Well, and Sharlow and Leylia, for obvious reasons, although I hope that Sharlow will be able to promote during this chapter.

	  Lv.	  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res  Funds  XP    Arn
Seliph	  28.78   67  25   7  22  21  28  22  16  44720  +300  [*]
Leif	  26.47	  60  27   8  26  27  16  25  11  18572  +168  [*]
Finn	  30	  51  24   1  18  22  24  21   4  50000  +91   [*]
Nanna	  29.18	  57  24   7  22  21  23  24   8  37680  +128  [*]

Ares	  28.22	  71  24   9  21  21  18  23  13  40300  +316  [*]
Fee	  29.84	  55  19  17  24  29  15  20  24  27417  +260  [*]
Altena	  25.76	  63  27   3  22  22  10  27   2  40860  +400  [*]
Arthur	  28.86   67   6  23  22  22  26  11  11  43520  +296  [*]

Shanan	  27.06	  60  23   0  30  26  12  20   6  39880  +356  [*]
Lester	  25.88	  53  22   3  17  19  24  18   4  30563  +392  [*]
Ulster	  25.48	  62  27   7  27  24  11  22   4  20500  +408  [*]
Larcei	  27.88   66  27   1  30  30  19  22   6  33570  +328  [*]

Patty	  28.10	  60  21  15  20  27  24  17   9  20493  +320  [*]
Johalvier 28.74   58  26   0  18  21   7  24   8  24315  +134  [*]
Faval	  25.59	  62  17  15  20  27  28  13   5  35423  +408  [*]
Ced	  27.09	  52   5  26  22  30  27  14  27  22600  +356  [*]

Tinni	  22.97	  55   4  23  24  27  24   7  15  12753  +438  [*] - Paragon
Lana	  30	  58  12  24  24  23  29  12  11  8226   +27   [*]

Last item on the menu: The Rescue staff finally makes its appearance. Leaf is the very obvious recipient for it. And as I see the Flame Sword in his inventory - right, I need to swap that over to Oifey or Ares. And for Seliph, there's the Wind Sword finally on sale, after I managed to un-acquire it in the first generation.

  

9 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, it's not like this is the one game series where you can do basic math with the stats displayed and actually get a result you can use for anything lol

...Seriously FE is so cool for that.

Spoiler

 

I wasn't sure in which direction to go, so I went with both.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They went ahead and gave us four variants of Knight, four unpromoted mono-weapon cavs plus unique promotions, and still retained the typical two-weapon Cavalier + Paladin. Threw in Bard when Mage would functionally make no difference for Lewyn, three Wyvern classes in a one-promotion game, and has that Forrest oddity.

I don't think it was storage.😝 Or it was, yet they wasted their limited capacity on arguably sillier things.

That's fair. Dangit, Lewyn's need to be ~special~ cost us an Axe Mage class!

[Saint Rubenio]

9 minutes ago, ping said:

I wasn't sure in which direction to go, so I went with both.

Even still. Beats most RPGs, where they tell you your guy's strength is 47, your weapon's power is 81, the enemy's defense is 19 and then you deal 472 damage one turn and 521 the next and God knows why the fuck anything happens.

18 minutes ago, ping said:

There it is again. It's even funnier the 8th time!

21 minutes ago, ping said:

Of course, it helps Ishtar that basically everybody looks like the lesser even when compared to a woman who doesn't just go along with the child hunts, but is furious when some babies aren't stabbed, nagadamnit.

Hilda's great. She's not sympathetic, she's not possessed, she's not sexy... She's as horribly, unabashedly, generically evil as every ugly recolored man ever, and she's about as physically unattractive as anime women are allowed to be. And, you know what? That's neat.

22 minutes ago, ping said:

: "Ah, General Riddell. We've got orders for you from Queen Hilda. She wants you to move out at once."

I feel like I should know who this is but I can't put my finger on it right n...

...Wait, Morrigan? Why Morrigan...?

23 minutes ago, ping said:

: "Excellent. It's high time that we had work which better befits knights. I am absolutely fed up with hunting children! I swear, if I have to hunt even one more child..."
: "Oh, what a pity that is. You see, we've a handful of escaped brats who are all in sore need of an execution."
: "Oh, for the love of..."

I do love how John Constipatius the VII has a worse reaction to the childhunts than Very Sympathetic Silver-Haired Camus.

24 minutes ago, ping said:

: "Heh... The shock stripped you of your memory all those years ago, did it? Perfect. Now, come!"
: "N-no! Take your hands off me!"
: "Heh heh... You cannot resist fate, my dear. Now, cease your struggle and come along..."
: "No! Ahh... Lord Seliph... Help... me..."

Funny dialogue, I have to admit. If Kaga hadn't been a coward, he would've had Manfroy kaga Arion like this in the previous chapter, too.

Manfroy just has clairvoyance. He can just divine where the silver maidens he needs are at any given moment.

26 minutes ago, ping said:

I'm loathe to say this, but Deirdre's abduction was much more well-written. For Deirdre, there was at least some set-up - it's established that Manfroy is looking for her, and Deirdre's feeling of dread (which Julia shares) comes back in dramatic irony when her acting on it (running after Sigurd because she felt impeding doom if they came apart) allows Manfroy to kidnap her without anybody's notice. Julia's abduction... just happens.

Gen 2: Where you find yourself missing even the worst gen 1 plot points!

25 minutes ago, ping said:

Morrigan is about what you'd expect from a Dark Bishop. Fairly tanky. Weighed down by their tomes. The three castle guards all use Hel, so you'll need a healer nearby to approach Morrigan, but since the guards don't move while their boss is alive, you should be fine if you take that precaution.

...Oh, right. I forgot...

[ping]

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Even still. Beats most RPGs, where they tell you your guy's strength is 47, your weapon's power is 81, the enemy's defense is 19 and then you deal 472 damage one turn and 521 the next and God knows why the fuck anything happens.

Oh, I agree. But just saying "Oh, I agree." is boring.

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hilda's great. She's not sympathetic, she's not possessed, she's not sexy... She's as horribly, unabashedly, generically evil as every ugly recolored man ever, and she's about as physically unattractive as anime women are allowed to be. And, you know what? That's neat.

One thing that's remarkable about Hilda is that she looks like she's about 50 years old. I think she's the only woman in the game who is allowed to be and look middle-aged? Rahna is probably 40-50 years old, but has a generic "somewhere between 25 and 40" portrait. Other than that, there's only two of the generic village women - the one with the headscarf looks about as old as Hilda, and then there's the one portrait that's actually old.

12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I feel like I should know who this is but I can't put my finger on it right n...

...Wait, Morrigan? Why Morrigan...?

It wasn't necessary for me to make the obvious joke, but I was quite delighted when this Morrigan even talked in a way that absolutely could've been DA:O!Morrigan. Like, child mass murder is (probably) a step too far even for her, but she'd totally present an unpleasant order with a similar faux-polite schadenfreude.

 

[Revier]

1 hour ago, ping said:

This part does a somewhat better job at making Ishtar look moderately sympathetic - not just because Hilda's callousness, but also because Ishtar's (short) lines have more of a "I have to get out of here" quality to them. With a bit of goodwill, one could assume that she's just holding herself together when her not-explicitly-abusive-but-holy-red-flags-batman boyfriend is present.

She's supposed to be sympathetic? I don't get that at all, what I get is an impression of a lady who sticks to a terrible man for the sake of love, and is willing to do terrible things to keep said love, but knows deep down that those things are terrible and is ashamed for it. So basically, a self centered villain with some shades of grey applied in all the wrong places.

1 hour ago, ping said:

: "Heh... The shock stripped you of your memory all those years ago, did it? Perfect. Now, come!"
: "N-no! Take your hands off me!"
: "Heh heh... You cannot resist fate, my dear. Now, cease your struggle and come along..."
: "No! Ahh... Lord Seliph... Help... me..."

The plot point so nice, we had to use it twice!

1 hour ago, ping said:

: " I can't believe it, but that's how it is... My guess is the enemy seized her. But why... Why would they only target Julia? This doesn't make any sense..."

You know your writing is bad when the smart guy/Gary Stu goes, "Why is this happening? I have no idea!" There's no admission of failure more complete than this, lol.

Still, this and the final chapter are miles above the dull slogfest that was the Thracian arc, at least in their gameplay.

Edited April 17 by Revier

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, ping said:

: "Open your ears, Ishtar! Freege is by far the most esteemed of Grannvale's noble houses, and I, like the Emperor himself, am of House Velthomer. There is nobody in this land who could ever be worthier to the prince's hand than you!"

Hilda's exact genealogical relationship to Arvis is never explained.

However, I would like to headcanon that she's one of the bastards (and thus, half-sibling to Arvis) that Victor purportedly sired and showered favoritism on.

It wouldn't make Hilda sympathetic, she is likely by nature a terrible person, but it could add to her vileness. She was living the decadent life of a princess -until Arvis suddenly ruined it all. Ostracized, Hilda came to think being poor SUCKS, and ruthlessly dedicated her life to regaining wealth and status.

Notes in the Treasure art book say Arvis sent his non-Azelle bastard siblings into exile or servitude. I could imagine that being a duke's bastard didn't exclude one from all of high society, just the most public social circles. A few secondary cliques off to the side would still accept Hilda, and somebody would take her in until she wedded. There, she waited for her best possible bankroll/title-giver, and caught no finer a marlin than the heir to Freege.

...But the problem here is the timeline and Ishtar's & Ishtore's ages. Realistically, I don't see Blume wedding a bastard -until Lombard & Leptor agree that Arvis will become Regent after Azmur's coming death. Once that pact happened, a woman of House Velthomer, even a bastard whom Arvis probably would hate, saw their value on the wife market soar by 50000%. It's only then that Blume sidelines considerations of any other woman and selects Hilda. Are Ishtar and Ishtore old enough to work within these constraints?

-Although, really, I'd take just about any explanation. A perfectly legitimate cadet branch of House Velthomer would do fine too.😅

Edited April 17 by Interdimensional Observer

[BrightBow]

1 hour ago, ping said:

Way to take a stand, Ishtar.

I get it, she's probably dead as a doornail if Julius at any point decides that he doesn't love her anymore, and she presumably knows that, but she seems distinctly unfazed by the prospect of more dead children than the castle can hold.

To be fair to her, if you talk 4 times to someone of the opposite gender, you are legally obligated to marry them and treat whatever heinous acts they commit as harmless quirky behavior.
 

1 hour ago, ping said:

: "Heh... The shock stripped you of your memory all those years ago, did it? Perfect. Now, come!"

Kaga did it first.

Although here the point of the amnesia seems more to be about keeping the resurrection of Lopto from overtaking the story until now.
 

1 hour ago, ping said:

I'm loathe to say this, but Deirdre's abduction was much more well-written. For Deirdre, there was at least some set-up - it's established that Manfroy is looking for her, and Deirdre's feeling of dread (which Julia shares) comes back in dramatic irony when her acting on it (running after Sigurd because she felt impeding doom if they came apart) allows Manfroy to kidnap her without anybody's notice. Julia's abduction... just happens.

Doesn't exactly help that Julia is way more powerful than Deidre. I mean, Deidre cannot even change classes even if she does get to level 20. Julia is in a whole different league. It feels absurd that he can just take her without any meaningful resistance.

But the worst part is that unlike Deidre, Manfroy doesn't actually need Julia for anything. He already has his dark god. If he can kidnap her, then he can also just kill her.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hilda's great. She's not sympathetic, she's not possessed, she's not sexy... She's as horribly, unabashedly, generically evil as every ugly recolored man ever, and she's about as physically unattractive as anime women are allowed to be. And, you know what? That's neat.

Hmm...Should I confess to thinking this collection of pixels is hot or not?

3 hours ago, ping said:

Oh, I agree. But just saying "Oh, I agree." is boring.

One thing that's remarkable about Hilda is that she looks like she's about 50 years old. I think she's the only woman in the game who is allowed to be and look middle-aged? Rahna is probably 40-50 years old, but has a generic "somewhere between 25 and 40" portrait. Other than that, there's only two of the generic village women - the one with the headscarf looks about as old as Hilda, and then there's the one portrait that's actually old.

She's probably a few years shy of fifty if you think about it. Assuming Bloom's marriage was a result of Chapter 5 and not something that happened earlier, Ishtar is at most 17, possibly younger. And assuming Hilda was a hot young bride of about 22 when she was an eligible bachelorette, that would but her in her late 30s now. Well maybe an extra year for Gen 2 having taken place in to put her in her early 40s. Unless she was older when she married because she was putting herself through Sorceress School first or something.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hilda's exact genealogical relationship to Arvis is never explained.

However, I would like to headcanon that she's one of the bastards (and thus, half-sibling to Arvis) that Victor purportedly sired and showered favoritism on.

It wouldn't make Hilda sympathetic, she is likely by nature a terrible person, but it could add to her vileness. She was living the decadent life of a princess -until Arvis suddenly ruined it all. Ostracized, Hilda came to think being poor SUCKS, and ruthlessly dedicated her life to regaining wealth and status.

Notes in the Treasure art book say Arvis sent his non-Azelle bastard siblings into exile or servitude. I could imagine that being a duke's bastard didn't exclude one from all of high society, just the most public social circles. A few secondary cliques off to the side would still accept Hilda, and somebody would take her in until she wedded. There, she waited for her best possible bankroll/title-giver, and caught no finer a marlin than the heir to Freege.

...But the problem here is the timeline and Ishtar's & Ishtore's ages. Realistically, I don't see Blume wedding a bastard -until Lombard & Leptor agree that Arvis will become Regent after Azmur's coming death. Once that pact happened, a woman of House Velthomer, even a bastard whom Arvis probably would hate, saw their value on the wife market soar by 50000%. It's only then that Blume sidelines considerations of any other woman and selects Hilda. Are Ishtar and Ishtore old enough to work within these constraints?

-Although, really, I'd take just about any explanation. A perfectly legitimate cadet branch of House Velthomer would do fine too.😅

I think perfectly legitimate cadet family is the Occam's razor answer. She says her family is from Velthomer, like the royal family. That kind of suggests it's not the royal family. And you'd think she's either be bragging about a close family connection to Alvis or denying it completely if she were a bastard. Instead she's bragging about a loose geographical connection.

I personally headcanon one of her parents are Thracian. Since for some bizarre reason they accidentally gave her Dainn holy blood in the final chapter.

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

Doesn't exactly help that Julia is way more powerful than Deidre. I mean, Deidre cannot even change classes even if she does get to level 20. Julia is in a whole different league. It feels absurd that he can just take her without any meaningful resistance.

But the worst part is that unlike Deidre, Manfroy doesn't actually need Julia for anything. He already has his dark god. If he can kidnap her, then he can also just kill her.

Hmm. How could this be fixed? I say we leave her in this chapter as normal until you seize Miletos. Throughout the chapter she's given lines suggesting she's starting to remember her past (maybe she can have a battle quote with Hilda, since those two have probably met before, even if neither might realize st first). And it all comes rushing back when she see's Julius on the battlefield. Unlike the brother she knew, but a haunting reminder of the way he looked the last time she saw him. She then leaves Miletos on her own volition because she simply has to speak to Alvis, whom she here's is at Chalphy. She has to appeal to daddy to put an end to this and stop Julius. And then things play out the same way. We get out dramatic scene and Julia falls into Manfroy's lap because he just happens to get lucky. This shifts it from Manfroy just being super naturally capable (until he isn't) to Julia being an idiot. But I think it's okay for her to take the idiot ball for this one to make the plot happen. Because even if abandoning the army to speak to Alvis is misguided and foolish, it could still be brave and a strong character beat for her, taking things into her own hands. And let's face it, Julia needs a moment like that because she is a bit fat nothing as far as characterization goes. She exists for the gameplay situation she provides for the final chapter first and foremost.

And this way we only lose her for one chapter instead of two.

Edited April 17 by Jotari

[Saint Rubenio]

17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Hmm...Should I confess to thinking this collection of pixels is hot or not?

I can see the appeal.

Edited April 17 by Saint Rubenio

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I can see the appeal.

Oh! What! Oh no, I was, eh, talking about her, uh, Volcannon. I mean Bolganone. Yeah, that's one hot book.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 hours ago, ping said:

: "Open your ears, Ishtar! Freege is by far the most esteemed of Grannvale's noble houses, and I, like the Emperor himself, am of House Velthomer. There is nobody in this land who could ever be worthier to the prince's hand than you!"

Yay, more incest. I mean, not surprising. And at least it's the clearly evil folks pushing for it.

Interesting to think that Arthur and Tinne - if fathered by Azelle - can basically be "double cousins" with Ishtar and Ishtore. Obviously, Blume and Tailtiu were siblings, while Azelle and Hilda are both Velthomers.

8 hours ago, ping said:

Now, this chapter isn't just about freeing Miletos, it's also the triumphant return to Chalphy (so to speak, Seliph himself was never here, after all). But I'm wondering if the border region of Verdane and Grannvale would've made for a better stage for this: Splice together the maps of the prologue and Ch.1 and cut off the part west of Marpha, which is to say Nordion and Verdane Castle. Genoa could be the home castle, with the order of objectives being Marpha (optional) -> Evans -> Jungby -> Chalphy.

This would allow plenty of characters to visit emotionally charged locations: Marpha is where Seliph's parents first met, and for Bridget and Aideen's children, visiting their mothers' home would be a Big Deal, as well. I wouldn't add Nordion to the map, but Ares and Raquesis's kids could have some dialogue talking about being close to home, too. Taking a quick peek at the endgame's map, you'd have to reshuffle enemies a little bit (seems that André jr. will arrive from the direction of Jungby, which would make less sense if Seliph had already captured it), but I think it could work quite well.

That'd be a cool way to do it. Honestly, they could leave Scorpio and the Beigenritter in charge of Castle Jungby. Would be more interesting than... uh... whoever's in charge of the southwest castle in Miletos. Let Hilda run Evans, and give Marpha to a Loptyrman, and we're golden.

I mean, it's kinda nice to see Miletos... but it's also the portion of the continent with the least lore. Who was running the place before Grannvale? What is their culture like? What are the people from there even called? Is there literally a single named "Miletosian" whom we can identify?

8 hours ago, ping said:

: " I can't believe it, but that's how it is... My guess is the enemy seized her. But why... Why would they only target Julia? This doesn't make any sense..."

...Lewyn. My man. Are you really pretending not to know? Or are you holding the idiot ball right now?

- You know Julia has Major Naga blood, giving her access to the Book of Naga.

- You know Julius has Major Loptyr blood, giving him access to the Book of Loptyr.

- You know that Naga is the biggest threat to Loptyr's resurrection.

Gee, I wonder why the Lopt Cult would have an interest in taking Julia in particular?

8 hours ago, ping said:

(3) Roland - Lv.19 Hero - Skill: Pursuit
	59 HP | 12 Def | 4 Res
	[Silver Blade] - 37 Atk | 94 Hit | 22 Avo | 11 AS
	[Wind Sword]   - 18 Atk (vs. Res)

Holy shit, a Hero named Roland? Kaga did Elibe first!

8 hours ago, ping said:

Purple are two (otherwise unarmed) Sleep users, and yellow are two long-ranged Fenrir users.

The Res stat: "my time has come".

8 hours ago, ping said:

The Queen class also has Charm as an innate skill, although Hilda doesn't seem to really apply that aura to anybody.

I do wonder if "Queen" was ever envisioned as a promotion to "Princess"? It would make sense name-wise, while also explaining its Charm skill - which Lachesis, the only playable Princess, possessed as a personal skill.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Manfroy just has clairvoyance. He can just divine where the silver maidens he needs are at any given moment.

A power Jarod seems to have inherited as well.

8 hours ago, ping said:

That's fair. Dangit, Lewyn's need to be ~special~ cost us an Axe Mage class!

Now I love to imagine Axe Lewyn "crab-walking", FE4 Brigand-style.

7 hours ago, Revier said:

The plot point so nice, we had to use it twice!

It's like poetry, it rhymes.

6 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Doesn't exactly help that Julia is way more powerful than Deidre. I mean, Deidre cannot even change classes even if she does get to level 20. Julia is in a whole different league. It feels absurd that he can just take her without any meaningful resistance.

Would've been hilarious if Kaga had let Deirdre promote into Master Knight at level 20. The kind of absurd boost that nobody except the most obsessed players would encounter. ...And then force your new best unit to stay in the castle at the start of chapter 3. ...And then kidnap her five minutes later.

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

She then leaves Miletos on her own volition because she simply has to speak to Alvis, whom she here's is at Chalphy. She has to appeal to daddy to put an end to this and stop Julius. And then things play out the same way. We get out dramatic scene and Julia falls into Manfroy's lap because he just happens to get lucky. This shifts it from Manfroy just being super naturally capable (until he isn't) to Julia being an idiot.

Yeah, that could work fine. Maybe have Julia leave overnight - assuming Seliph amd co are taking some time to rest before their assault on Chalphy. Without telling anyone, because they'd try to stop her. Then Manfroy could take advantage of her carelessness.

Also, would be nice if Manfroy canonically had a Berserk Staff. Or maybe a sort of "Super-Berserk", that doesn't wear off, and prevents her from attacking her new "allies". If nothing else, provide a mechanical explanation for Manfroy's brainwashing powers. Finally, it'd make him a more threatening boss, while also providing added value to a Restore or Silence user.

[Jotari]

57 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I mean, it's kinda nice to see Miletos... but it's also the portion of the continent with the least lore. Who was running the place before Grannvale? What is their culture like? What are the people from there even called? Is there literally a single named "Miletosian" whom we can identify?

We're actually okay on the culture front for Miletos. In fact, far better than some of the nations. We know it's a rich mercantile nation with exotic trading stuff and that it was a bunch of mostly independent city states (I think Kaga's notes say that somewhere, though I might be making it up) before the empire took over. And we know it was the site of child hunts in the original Lopt empire with massive sacrifices there and it's enduring this horror again.We even get a tidbit that Quan and Ethlyn visited there once. What we do lack for Miletos is representation (seriously no black trans women at all) and a role in the wider world. Fire Emblem nations get their characterization through three main methods. The characters from there and what aspects of the society they represent. The role they play on the war and the types of classes they usually deeply. Miletos has none of that. We have loads (okay more like a few, but far more than most countries) of small details about it's culture and history, but none of those central three. Not only are there no characters from there, but they have no agency in the conflict and don't even get enough of a face to have generic enemies or NPCs to give flavor. I contrast to Gra, which also has pathetically small representation being just Sheena and Jiol (and Mr Captain). We feel like there should be more characters from there, but, even though there's not, we still have a good grasp of how Gra feels about things and it's motivation for doing things. Even though we see zero suffering Gra commoners, I feel like that countries misery is more palpable than Miletos just because we can understand it better, have Sheena to act as a vehicle for it and actual soldier troops to identify with that work better than the child hunts, ground we've already covered in the Leinster arc.

57 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Holy shit, a Hero named Roland? Kaga did Elibe first!

I do wonder if "Queen" was ever envisioned as a promotion to "Princess"? It would make sense name-wise, while also explaining its Charm skill - which Lachesis, the only playable Princess, possessed as a personal skill.

On the subject of random arena enemies and the Queen class, Indra, the Queen you fight here is also fought at the start of the previous chapter where s(he?) was a social knight. How's that for a class change! Outside of the final chapter this is the only time you fight and arena enemy with the same name. The final chapter arena enemies also retain their classes. Which makes me think someone fucked up and accidentally used the same arena name twice for two different enemies.

I do wonder where she's Queen of thou? Maybe she's actually Travant's wife!

57 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, that could work fine. Maybe have Julia leave overnight - assuming Seliph amd co are taking some time to rest before their assault on Chalphy. Without telling anyone, because they'd try to stop her. Then Manfroy could take advantage of her carelessness.

Overnight! Are you insane!....that would require making a night palette!

[Revier]

I'm honestly not bothered by Miletos not getting represented much. It's clearly a buffer state between Thracia and the empire's core, it's not really meant to be significant to the plot or the world. As a stepping stone towards the empire, though, it makes for a climactic site of battle, especially when it's capped by the hero's home at its very end.

Edited April 18 by Revier

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also, would be nice if Manfroy canonically had a Berserk Staff. Or maybe a sort of "Super-Berserk", that doesn't wear off, and prevents her from attacking her new "allies". If nothing else, provide a mechanical explanation for Manfroy's brainwashing powers.

Genealogy does have an unused item in its data called the "Charm Staff".💞 The Charm Staff wasn't programmed to do anything however, it's an incomplete item. In both the Final Fantasy and Shin Megami Tensei franchises, Charm does precisely what you describe- render allies uncontrollable and turn them against their allies.

Although, maybe the Charm Staff is how Manfroy got a wife, and what it was supposed to do was make you insta-lovers with whomever you cast it on the first time (or bring them up to 499 LP with you if you're already married and have your memories intact).

 

34 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Indra, the Queen you fight here is also fought at the start of the previous chapter where s(he?) was a social knight.

Indra is the name of a Hindu storm god, once very prominent in the pantheon (the King of the Gods even) -but that was easily 2000 years ago at least and he has long since fallen by the wayside (blame Shiva, Vishnu, and Devi). Indira Gandhi was India's first and so far only female prime minister (so sorta a "queen", particularly when you consider her father and son were also prime minister; no relation to Mahatma Gandhi just to clarify).

Edited April 18 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

We're actually okay on the culture front for Miletos. In fact, far better than some of the nations. We know it's a rich mercantile nation with exotic trading stuff and that it was a bunch of mostly independent city states (I think Kaga's notes say that somewhere, though I might be making it up) before the empire took over. And we know it was the site of child hunts in the original Lopt empire with massive sacrifices there and it's enduring this horror again.We even get a tidbit that Quan and Ethlyn visited there once. What we do lack for Miletos is representation (seriously no black trans women at all) and a role in the wider world. Fire Emblem nations get their characterization through three main methods. The characters from there and what aspects of the society they represent. The role they play on the war and the types of classes they usually deeply. Miletos has none of that. We have loads (okay more like a few, but far more than most countries) of small details about it's culture and history, but none of those central three. Not only are there no characters from there, but they have no agency in the conflict and don't even get enough of a face to have generic enemies or NPCs to give flavor. I contrast to Gra, which also has pathetically small representation being just Sheena and Jiol (and Mr Captain). We feel like there should be more characters from there, but, even though there's not, we still have a good grasp of how Gra feels about things and it's motivation for doing things. Even though we see zero suffering Gra commoners, I feel like that countries misery is more palpable than Miletos just because we can understand it better, have Sheena to act as a vehicle for it and actual soldier troops to identify with that work better than the child hunts, ground we've already covered in the Leinster arc.

Oh, also to add to this is that we just sort of appear in Miletos with no continuity between castles. Which probably hurts it a bit. The only other time this happens is with Silesse and the generation skip, both of which are choreographed a lot more than an optional conversation about shopping and an off screen battle in the map intro. We don't even know how Seliph got there since there's an ocean in the way. Did he have ships? Did he appropriate Travant's wyverns from occupied Thracia and parachute all his troops in?

EDIT: oh wait, it's connected to Thracia via land. I thought there was a coast all around you on the gameplay map...I still like the parachuting wyverns idea though.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Genealogy does have an unused item in its data called the "Charm Staff".💞 The Charm Staff wasn't programmed to do anything however, it's an incomplete item. In both the Final Fantasy and Shin Megami Tensei franchises, Charm does precisely what you describe- render allies uncontrollable and turn them against their allies.

Although, maybe the Charm Staff is how Manfroy got a wife, and what it was supposed to do was make you insta-lovers with whomever you cast it on the first time (or bring them up to 499 LP with you if you're already married and have your memories intact).

 

Indra is the name of a Hindu storm god, once very prominent in the pantheon (the King of the Gods even) -but that was easily 2000 years ago at least and he has long since fallen by the wayside (blame Shiva, Vishnu, and Devi). Indira Gandhi was India's first and so far only female prime minister (so sorta a "queen", particularly when you consider her father and son were also prime minister; no relation to Mahatma Gandhi just to clarify).

I said s(he) since I think social knight is a male only class while Queen, is unplayable, but surely a female exclusive.

Edited April 18 by Jotari

[ping]

10 hours ago, Revier said:

She's supposed to be sympathetic? I don't get that at all, what I get is an impression of a lady who sticks to a terrible man for the sake of love, and is willing to do terrible things to keep said love, but knows deep down that those things are terrible and is ashamed for it. So basically, a self centered villain with some shades of grey applied in all the wrong places.

I would say, so, yes. There's a village in Ch.7 where we're told that she and Ishtore are "fine youths", for example, and later, after Julius warps Ishtar out of Ch.8, Tinni tells Seliph, "Ishtar was like a sister to me. She was one of the few who treated me well..." With what we're given at this point, I think it's a valid interpretation that Ishtar fell in love with Julius without seeing the pedocidal side of him (or maybe they met before Loptyr took Julius over, but I'm pretty sure we don't actually know about that just yet)... and now that Julius is off his rocker, she's too terrified of him to ever do or say anything that might upset him. It wouldn't make her a good person - she's still helping along the child murding machine - but it would make her a tragic villain.

10 hours ago, Revier said:

The plot point so nice, we had to use it twice!

"Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce." - Karl Marx

10 hours ago, Revier said:

You know your writing is bad when the smart guy/Gary Stu goes, "Why is this happening? I have no idea!" There's no admission of failure more complete than this, lol.

I don't disagree with the overall point, but I don't think Lewyn is much of a Stu. He has special blood and bullshit powers, sure, but not beyond the degree of other characters with major holy blood. And while he's indeed gen 2's "smart guy", I think an important part of Sue/Stu-ness is that the narration assumes that everybody (both in-universe and the reader) loves the Stu, with the exception of the most irredeemable villain. And that's certainly not the case for Lewyn, who is a bad son, a bad husband, a bad father, a bad crown prince, and just an all-around bad person - and all quite deliberately written as such.

9 hours ago, BrightBow said:

To be fair to her, if you talk 4 times to someone of the opposite gender, you are legally obligated to marry them and treat whatever heinous acts they commit as harmless quirky behavior.

Can confirm. I was at the market early this morning and said hi to another regular customer. The police immediately appeared and brought us to the closest registry office.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

She's probably a few years shy of fifty if you think about it. Assuming Bloom's marriage was a result of Chapter 5 and not something that happened earlier, Ishtar is at most 17, possibly younger. And assuming Hilda was a hot young bride of about 22 when she was an eligible bachelorette, that would but her in her late 30s now. Well maybe an extra year for Gen 2 having taken place in to put her in her early 40s. Unless she was older when she married because she was putting herself through Sorceress School first or something.

Since "late 30s" is basically 70+ in anime age, I suppose I have to rescind my previous statement and say that Hilda looks really young for her age.

Jokes aside, those numbers do seem more realistic, but I'd say my point about Hilda being allowed to look middle-aged still stands.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think perfectly legitimate cadet family is the Occam's razor answer. She says her family is from Velthomer, like the royal family. That kind of suggests it's not the royal family. And you'd think she's either be bragging about a close family connection to Alvis or denying it completely if she were a bastard. Instead she's bragging about a loose geographical connection.

I personally headcanon one of her parents are Thracian. Since for some bizarre reason they accidentally gave her Dainn holy blood in the final chapter.

Yeah, I like the @Interdimensional Observer's head canon, but I agree that Hilda would make a bigger deal about being brothers with the Emperor unless she doesn't want to direct Ishtar's attention to her and Julius being cousins.

Just from her looks, I would've headcanoned Isaachian heritage for her. I'm sure there's black-haired characters explicitly stated to be from somewhere else, but that hair colour is still mostly associated with that country.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yay, more incest. I mean, not surprising. And at least it's the clearly evil folks pushing for it.

Interesting to think that Arthur and Tinne - if fathered by Azelle - can basically be "double cousins" with Ishtar and Ishtore. Obviously, Blume and Tailtiu were siblings, while Azelle and Hilda are both Velthomers.

All very much in line with the standards of European nobility. Gotta keep those bloodlines pure.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I mean, it's kinda nice to see Miletos... but it's also the portion of the continent with the least lore. Who was running the place before Grannvale? What is their culture like? What are the people from there even called? Is there literally a single named "Miletosian" whom we can identify?

Thing is, Miletos really is just on the Jugdral map for this one chapter. Outside of it, it appears in the Jugdral timeline (the first instance of child hunts) and as Seliph's shopping location. You could just move the "Sorrow of Miletos" to another location and have Seliph take another angle to flirt with Julia, and you could remove the island from the map without losing anything narratively.

And no, we don't know any character from Miletos.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The Res stat: "my time has come".

Fee stocks at an all-time high.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Now I love to imagine Axe Lewyn "crab-walking", FE4 Brigand-style.

Sylvia tried to teach him how to dance.

 

[Saint Rubenio]

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh! What! Oh no, I was, eh, talking about her, uh, Volcannon. I mean Bolganone. Yeah, that's one hot book.

Do not be ashamed.

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That'd be a cool way to do it. Honestly, they could leave Scorpio and the Beigenritter in charge of Castle Jungby. Would be more interesting than... uh... whoever's in charge of the southwest castle in Miletos. Let Hilda run Evans, and give Marpha to a Loptyrman, and we're golden.

I mean, it's kinda nice to see Miletos... but it's also the portion of the continent with the least lore. Who was running the place before Grannvale? What is their culture like? What are the people from there even called? Is there literally a single named "Miletosian" whom we can identify?

I won't lie, it kinda feels like a filler place. They needed land between Thracia and Arvis for build-up so they just threw Miletos in there.

6 hours ago, ping said:

Yeah, I like the @Interdimensional Observer's head canon, but I agree that Hilda would make a bigger deal about being brothers with the Emperor unless she doesn't want to direct Ishtar's attention to her and Julius being cousins.

Just from her looks, I would've headcanoned Isaachian heritage for her. I'm sure there's black-haired characters explicitly stated to be from somewhere else, but that hair colour is still mostly associated with that country.

It'd be neat if she was a Miletos royal and that's how she ended up being queen of the place lol

And thinking about it, the only character that comes to mind that's black-haired but isn't from Isaach is Asaello.

6 hours ago, ping said:

And no, we don't know any character from Miletos.

Even Carcino from Sacred Stones isn't this bad off. Even if it's really easy to forget Rennac is from there because he's far easier to associate to the Rausten gang.

Edited April 18 by Saint Rubenio

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, ping said:

Thing is, Miletos really is just on the Jugdral map for this one chapter. Outside of it, it appears in the Jugdral timeline (the first instance of child hunts) and as Seliph's shopping location. You could just move the "Sorrow of Miletos" to another location and have Seliph take another angle to flirt with Julia, and you could remove the island from the map without losing anything narratively.

And no, we don't know any character from Miletos.

 

I tried to mock up a Chapter 10 where Miletos doesn't exist. I wanted to start from Luthecia (the chapter where Coirpre/Sharlow is held) and end up in Edda, to have continuity between the  maps, but the distance is too far both vertically and horizontally to fit on a standard Genealogy sized map. I could just about fit a chapter in where they start at Melgen (Ishtore's castle) and reach Edda.

Zero attempt was made to actually design a map with functional gameplay. It was purely tossing geography together to make a coastline connecting the two spots (and without any care for palette either).  This would have Alvis be in Edda randomly instead of Chalphy and would then make you begin in Edda for the final chapter, which is also kind of random. There's definitely a full circle theme starting the final chapter at Chalphy. So, yeah, while I'd definitely love for their to be continuity between the chapters (the easetern part of Jugdral can't be connected to the central and western parts, if there was a little bit more care given to the Yied desert they could, but none of the ridges line up exactly), creating Miletos for that thematic refrain was probably the best decision.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I won't lie, it kinda feels like a filler place. They needed land between Thracia and Arvis for build-up so they just threw Miletos in there.

All of Gen 2 has this one consideration behind it- how does a ragtag group of Issachan rebels end up overthrowing one-and-a-half-decade-almighty Grannvale Empire?

Direct confrontation between the core Grannvalian armies and Seliph's group could've happened as early as Chapter 7. Edda is directly west of Darna, the Empire could've easily sent out Brian as Seliph was dealing with Ishtore and flanked the rebels.

However, if you've any liking for a notion of realism, that couldn't happen. And if you wanted Gen 2 to be longer than maybe three chapters (without writing a retreat into Seliph's story), you couldn't have it happen either. Helping Leif on the Thracian Peninsula keeps away from Grannvale, and limits Seliph to only fighting regional imperial occupation forces -even if they're led by one of the leading families in the Empire. Travant & Arion are another useful distraction.

It's only with Miletos, 5/6s into Gen 2, that Seliph begins strategically aiming for Grannvale itself, he isn't moving away from it as he did going into the Thracian Peninsula. His army is well-experienced by now. Even if it might not feel like it, because Gen 2 has to share a game with Gen 1, and those giant maps... might impose limits on the feeling of story development/progression?

[Revier]

I understand the purpose for the Thracian arc, and tbh, Seliph gathering forces by helping out fellow rebels in other parts of the continent is actually a fairly sensible and compelling cause. But that doesn't change that King Blume is a pretty dull villain, that the Thracian arc has little narrative weight to it, and that it has to constantly rely on contrivances to serve any sort of drama. 

[Jotari]

40 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

All of Gen 2 has this one consideration behind it- how does a ragtag group of Issachan rebels end up overthrowing one-and-a-half-decade-almighty Grannvale Empire?

Direct confrontation between the core Grannvalian armies and Seliph's group could've happened as early as Chapter 7. Edda is directly west of Darna, the Empire could've easily sent out Brian as Seliph was dealing with Ishtore and flanked the rebels.

However, if you've any liking for a notion of realism, that couldn't happen. And if you wanted Gen 2 to be longer than maybe three chapters (without writing a retreat into Seliph's story), you couldn't have it happen either. Helping Leif on the Thracian Peninsula keeps away from Grannvale, and limits Seliph to only fighting regional imperial occupation forces -even if they're led by one of the leading families in the Empire. Travant & Arion are another useful distraction.

It's only with Miletos, 5/6s into Gen 2, that Seliph begins strategically aiming for Grannvale itself, he isn't moving away from it as he did going into the Thracian Peninsula. His army is well-experienced by now. Even if it might not feel like it, because Gen 2 has to share a game with Gen 1, and those giant maps... might impose limits on the feeling of story development/progression?

I was feeling energetic, so in addition to the "What if Miletos didn't exist Chapter 10 map" I made above, I also made this "What if there were a Chapter 9.5"

This one has you start at Luthecia from Chapter 9 and end at Peruluke where Chapter 10 begins. And because that's the way the Geography works out, it features Melgen again, in the north, which the enemy could take offscreen while you're busy with the rest of Thracia. That would be a nice way of showing that the empire isn't passively waiting for you to just come to them and that they actually are attacking and trying to reclaim your previously conquered territories.

Unfrotunately in the wider scale of the world, to fit into one chapter, this does require much of Chapter 7 Yied Desert and Chapter 5 Yied Desert to overlap in non matching ways. But it wouldn't really change anything in chapter 5 if Yied's geography there was changed a bit. You never have any cause to visit the south eastern part of Chapter 5 anyway.

Of course, if Gen 2 were to be 1 chapter longer (and it probably shouldn't), then Gen 1 would have to be as well for the sake of cosmic balance. So, the question is, could you fit a chapter between Chapter 3 and 4 where you actively run from Reptor's troops? Well, no, actually. Silesse and Grannvale are actually really close together. In fact, the western coastline of Silesse should be just visible in Chapter 3, but it's not (but, surprisingly, a very tiny portion of the east coast of Agustria is present in the final map, it's amazing how perfectly imperfect the gameplay map of larger Jugdral is).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

Come to think of it - this would've been, essentially, the path that Quan and friends took to meet up with Sigurd, way back in the Prologue. I like the idea of Leif, in particular, taking the journey his mother and father once did.

My "out there" idea for a Jugdral remake would be - expand Thracia 776 so that defeating Blume, then Travant, and reuniting Leonster, is almost all under Leif's army. Seliph liberates Isaach, but largely skips over Thracia to free Miletos instead. And maybe Verdane, if he has a spare afternoon. Then they reunite at Chalphy (hm, Edda might make more geographic sense), and take on the remaining Imperial forces as one.

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

 

Yeah, see? A clear shot from Melgen to Peruluke, with just one castle in the way. Seliph could still beat up Blume at Ulster, to throw Leif a bone and all.

By the way, loving your custom maps. One of my favorite aspects of FE4 is everything melding together like this. I'm literally playing upon the world map!

19 hours ago, ping said:

Sylvia tried to teach him how to dance.

Lewyn celebrates killimg his uncles with an old-fashioned crab rave.

19 hours ago, ping said:

Fee stocks at an all-time high.

Bragi holy blood with a reason to exist, all of a sudden.

21 hours ago, Jotari said:

What we do lack for Miletos is representation (seriously no black trans women at all) and a role in the wider world.

Hear me out - the fact that we don't see anyone from Miletos means they could actually be black. And, there's more men than women in Gen II, so why not a black woman? And and, IS has definitely been more willing to include LGBT characters in their games, so a black trans woman from Miletos... farfetch'd, but not impossible.

...Make her a War Mage with Elthunder named Laverne. Laverne Shox.

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

still like the parachuting wyverns idea though.

Seliph's entire army class-changes to Wyvern Rider for the trip, then dismounts as soon as they catch a whiff of ballistae.

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

said s(he) since I think social knight is a male only class while Queen, is unplayable, but surely a female exclusive.

Wait, never mind what I said before. Turns out, we had a trans icon hidden in the Arena this whole time! Kaga, you magnificent dastard.

21 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Genealogy does have an unused item in its data called the "Charm Staff".💞 The Charm Staff wasn't programmed to do anything however, it's an incomplete item. In both the Final Fantasy and Shin Megami Tensei franchises, Charm does precisely what you describe- render allies uncontrollable and turn them against their allies.

Huh, I had assumed that the Staff would have an effect similar to the same-named skill. Granting it to one of your allies. Except, the staff is チャーム (Chaamu), while the skill is カリスマ (Karisuma). So, "Charm" versus "Charisma". Not the same, really.

It has 1-10 range, so perhaps it was a status staff that could control enemies? Then again, it's A-rank, while the other status staves were B-rank. And other staves (Physic, Restore, Fortify, Rescue) also had 1-10 range. So, who's to say, after all?