VincentASM Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) Something that has been bugging me for a while, which etern reminded me of recently. Are we completely sure of the conditions to make Jill turn to the enemy side after talking to her father, Shiharam, in Chapter 20? As far as I know, if Jill doesn't have a A support with Mist or a B support with Lethe, she will become an enemy if she uses the Talk option (or you make her wait next to Shiharam and he initiates the talk instead). I also know that the conversation exists, but I don't know if anybody's triggered it in the English version. However, etern told me that they couldn't get the Talk option to show up and I don't remember it appearing either. I have a feeling this conversation might be mode dependent, but I'm not too sure. So, I was just wondering, is anybody near Chapter 20 and is able to make Jill go all the way up to Shiharam to see if she'll change sides? If so, can you tell me whereabouts in the game you are, what difficulty and whether you're planning to support Jill with Mist or Lethe? Currently I have a save at Chapter 15, I think on Easy mode (the one with the red file) and Jill has no supports. etern's already at Chapter 20 with the same conditions, so there's probably not much I can do, except maybe mess around with supports (I think I've only got time to get Lethe B though). Edited August 10, 2011 by VincentASM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have done the convo on hard mode before, I don't think Jill had support with anyone though... I'm currently on ch18, she has a B I think with Mist and a C with Lethe, I'll see what happens if she has a B or A and talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thanks, that would be great. Do you have any means of recording footage or taking images? Not that I don't trust you, but it would be useful for verification and reference purposes. Maybe also try making Jill wait and see if Shiharam will talk to her as well? I have a suspicion the conversation can only initiated in Hard mode or above, but since the English version took out Maniac, that just leaves one mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I don't really, I have a shitty Ipod camera, that's about it :< I'll try that as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 From what I remember, in Easy Mode, no matter if she has supports or not, she won't defect. I haven't played PoR in forever so I could be very wrong on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 O.o I JUST finished this chapter and forgot about this being possible. I had her fight him, but didn't see a talk option. I'm on normal mode. She has B Support with Mist, but according to what you said, that doesn't change anything. I didn't leave Shiraham alive for more than a turn after I started to attack him though, so I wouldn't know about that. Sorry I didn't read this right before playing through the chapter (I saved over it already). =/ I hope I helped a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Don't worry, that'll do fine thanks ^^ Now I've got data from Easy mode and partial data from Normal mode, which is more than I started with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 My Jill defected (left next to Shiharam and he initiated) on Hard Mode with a B Lethe and no Mist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 That's odd, when abouts did you play the chapter? I know the game definitely checks for a Jill x Lethe support, but I don't know what level. It's possible that it checks for A level support, but they forgot that an A support is impossible at that stage in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 But their A-support has them talking about Shihirams' dead. The developers had to knew that this support was unobtainable up to that chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Development can change often and isn't always easy to keep track of. That and you have many people working on different things. 2 months before FE7 hit shelves, a lot of CGs still hadn't been inserted and many support conversations were missing. So I wouldn't be surprised if some FE9 supports were changed towards the end. The fact that an official guidebook apparently states that a A support between Jill and Lethe is needed to stop Jill switching sides further suggests that some people in the development team thought it was possible. Edited August 11, 2011 by VincentASM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Jill/Mist A is possible but Jill/Lethe B is the most possible by that point. I remember Jill having a "Talk" convo with Shiraham one point where she didn't defect, IIRC it was Normal Mode and she had the aformentioned supports. It's been forever since I played PoR so I'm not sure if I'm even correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 That's odd, when abouts did you play the chapter? I know the game definitely checks for a Jill x Lethe support, but I don't know what level. It's possible that it checks for A level support, but they forgot that an A support is impossible at that stage in the game. Hmm, this was a few weeks ago. I remember it happening before as well, same supports with Jill initiating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinata Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) I tested this out a while ago on my hard file. Jill had an A support with Mist and no Lethe support, and there was definitely a Talk conversation between her and Shiharam. Regardless of who initiated it, Jill did not defect. This was a while ago but I remember it clearly since I was intentionally testing this out. Combine this with what Cynthia said, and we have that, at least on American hard mode, Jill will defect unless she has an A support (which of course has to be with Mist). Or maybe the game checks to see if Jill has at least 3 support points, which is why the game also checks for LethexJill. I'm pretty sure the conversation talked about how Jill would not return because she's met new friends in Ike's army, so it makes sense. Anyways, easy mode and normal mode are pretty the same besides some stat and EXP changes. If the talk convo does not show up at all in easy, it doesn't show up in normal. However, if Octavian is correct, then the convo will only show up in easy/normal mode if she has the required supports. In other words, if the convo will result in Jill defecting, the game won't let the convo happen at all in the easier difficulties. Edited August 14, 2011 by Kinata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGE Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) What I'm curious about is if the previous chapter -- chapter 19 --'s Jill information conversation thing, has something to do with her switching sides. Edit: And I do have a recorder, so, push come to shove, I'll record the talk. (I don't want to right away, though.) Edited August 27, 2011 by etern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 yeah that foreshadows that she might defect if she meets her father. thats all it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGE Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 But the question is, how do we get her to defect? =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGE Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) I just realized something. With hacks, isn't it possible to control Shiharam, even in an enemy state, to see if he can chat with Jill? Maybe he has to initiate the conversation, but is scripted not to or something? That could be something to check out, right? So in other words, force Shiharam to talk, instead of trying to get him to normally do it. Edited July 29, 2012 by etern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Controlling the enemy can throw in complications if the game doesn't expect you to control them and I'd rather stick to the intended limits of the game when testing something, unless there's good reason ^^ I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I think we concluded that Jill defects on Hard mode and above (i.e on Maniac mode as well, in the Japanese version), if she doesn't have an A support with Mist. If the conditions are met, the Talk option should appear for Jill and Shiharam can also trigger the conversation himself as well. Meanwhile, Jill could be prevented by defecting with an A support with Lethe as well, but this can't be obtained without cheating or hacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGE Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'll test that out one of these days, but I don't know how we'll I'll do. By that I mean, in my PoR, I have times where units get literally no stat increases on level ups, or simply really bad level ups. [For example, Brom getting only +1 magic on an level up] But I'll see what I can do, and if the talk option is there, I'll record it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I think Jill can defect on Normal Mode without any of those supports..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think Jill can defect on Normal Mode without any of those supports..... She can. I'm on Chapter 21 and playtested this, but I forgot about this topic. Jill had no supports and became an enemy unit after talking with Shiharam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGE Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You on normal mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I can confirm that on Normal Mode. I'll see if I have any save state from that chapter. ... No, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Sorry to necropost. I'm in Normal mode. No Jill support (I already met the requirement with Mist A support and probably Lethe B support but haven't activate any conversation yet.) Read all the info conversation at base. Jill didn't turn to be enemy in any situation No Talk option, just Attack and this conversation appeared. If Jill didn't initiate attack, just standing beside him, Shisharam didn't initiate anything, talk or attack. If I let Jill kill him, the conversation when he died and after that (Jill with Ike) didn't change. and the rest images when Ike attacks Shisharam. http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/se7enize-dotcom/Fire%20Emblem/ and the savestate and memory card save in dolphin emulator 64bit v. 3.0.1-801 http://www.mediafire.com/?yukdhhp9vzm19np http://www.mediafire.com/?2b3wqw9x47el1a6 http://www.mediafire.com/?cap9527sarau7f8 Edited December 30, 2012 by Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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