Warp in FE: good or bad idea?

[Espinosa]

Do you find the option of Warp gamebreaking and/or a good idea? I personally like when Warp has range limited by your staff range, but infinite range Warp kinda negates all the effort invested into designing maps that you probably end up skipping.

I guess it depends on the game for me. FE8 has Warp come very late where you might as well spam it for experience because you have more than enough uses + Hammerne for the rest of the short game. In FE6 you get it early and when you want to use it is of big importance as there are too many choices for Warp uses, not in the least owing to the route split after chapter 16x, and also because the enemy staves/siege tend to get out of hand. Besides planning, reaching the appropriate staff rank (plus magic for extra range which makes a difference in low-turning at times) also provides additional objectives for the player to be concerned with.

Also seems that games where Warp is gone, like PoR, RD or FE12!Lunatic leave you not minding its absence at all.

[BrightBow]

It provides useful strategical options as long as it is a highly limited resource. Skipping the whole map is of course a problem. But Fire Emblem is structured as a campaign, so you would want the resources that a map has to offer in order to be prepared for anything. Of course, once you've played the game already, you know exactly what you need and can cut corners. Maybe they should just make Lords explode when you warp them or something, in order to prevent skipping.

Edited March 23, 2013 by BrightBow

[Integrity]

Generally like 'em. Stuff like FE11's "you have infinite range warp all the time and then a 12 use hammerne pops up" was kinda cheesy, but I had no problems with the GBA Warp.

EDIT: And hell, I never used FE11's Warp because I never felt like I had to.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Integrity

[Thor Odinson]

If people want to warpskip, I say let them. The game provided them with a beat level button and it's within their right to use it. I do prefer the GBA edition, though, from a balance perspective, since it comes mid-to- late and is range-limited. FE11's is pretty crazy.

I personally don't like doing warpskipping since I like killing things more, but I will warpskip a map that irritates me (see FE6 Ilia 20x/21x). As long as warp isn't mandatory use to beat the game I'm all for its existence.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Thor Odinson

[Dragrath]

It's fine if it has limited rage(all staffs should) and you if you can't just buy them is mass or something... If you do that it adds a strategic option to the game thus let them at it

[Rehab]

I think it's a neat idea, in that I can roleplay in my head that using the HOLY SHIT I CAN WARP FOREVER version and beating the stage extra quick is choosing the least violent path, and that winning with it is like the equivalent of getting the bulk of an enemy force to surrender or eluding them, rather than killing them all. So, about as close to a setup like a pacifist or nonviolent option/run as FE usually lets itself get, at the cost of less experience for fighting units.

I think it's at least arguable, though, that some of the games just might not have realized how good they made warp, at the time. I still think it's a neat option to be able to effectively skip ingame violence, and it'd be nice if the games could recognize it when it happens, but I can also understand why they'd limit it or take it away. (like, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody reported warp's potential during testing and the guys in charge went "WHAT? LESS KILLING? NO SIR, I'M AFRAID THAT WON'T DO AT ALL")

Edited March 23, 2013 by Rehab

[Renall]

Limits on range are a necessity. You shouldn't be able to Warp anywhere you can't see, either; put interior stuff behind doors or under Fog of War so you can, at best, warp to the structure but not just plop some asshole right next to a throne.

They should also definitely be a limited resource and require a very high Staff rank. They're a map design nightmare without significant restrictions, but there's nothing otherwise wrong with them as a tactical option.

Warpskip is idiotic and needs to go, but it's not the player's fault that IS gave them infinite staff range.

[Espinosa]

Well, in SD planning which Warps to use where (in a maximum LTC run) and how to pass them around in trade chains takes some effort, but still, it's perplexing how much land you end up skipping entirely.

[Smiley Jim]

While I think that Warp is quite gamebreaking in any context, I will admit that the staff is a lot more balanced in the GBA games than it is in, say, Shadow Dragon or Thracia 776. If you are going to put in a staff that lets the player cheese large portions of the map, at the very least give it limited range(so a unit with 30 magic can only warp a unit up to 15 tiles away, for example), give it a high weapon level(this way, only earlygame staffbots and prepromote casters can use it realistically in an efficient PT), and make it appear late into the game. FE7 came the closest to this ideal, with FE8 not falling behind(FE6's warp staff is gotten midgame, so it doesn't QUITE fit the ideal idea of balance, but it's still a hell of a lot more balanced than FE11's Warp.)

What I'm saying here is that while I think that Warp is a very valid tactical option, there really needs to be hard limits on how it can be used in the game(and I don't mean self imposed rules made by the player, I mean actual limits on how much you can skip in the game.). And that's where FE11 really fucked up.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Garchomp

[Shadow Mir]

As far as Warp goes, I'm kinda undecided. Though I will say the GBA games handled Warp the best by far.

Maybe they should just make Lords explode when you warp them or something, in order to prevent skipping.

Seeing this comment makes me think about the penultimate chapter in Hector mode in FE7 and how if you warped someone in Kishuna's room, you get greeted by Berserker reinforcements that wouldn't show up otherwise in addition to the door opening.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Psych]

I actually liked FE4 warp the most, but then again it really only worked in FE4 if it kept those mechanics.

[Renall]

I actually liked FE4 warp the most, but then again it really only worked in FE4 if it kept those mechanics.

It was pretty much fine in FE4 because of the owned castle restriction, as well as the general turns issue with it: It can save them in the long run, but it doesn't generally allow for crazy slingshot shenanigans in the space of a few turns, like Leif spamming Rescue on Seliph (and Rescue had a range limit anyway). But as you said, it only really works in that context for FE4.

I suppose it was a bit exploitable for experience gains but it was balanced by the expense of repairing it, so no big deal.

[Snowy_One]

I hate it and wish it was gone. Warp makes it too easy to bypass parts of the map, even with the range-limit in place, and it's only uses aside from warp-skipping are too limited to make it worthwhile for anything besides warpskipping. Maybe if FE didn't have so many 'seize' type maps, but it does, making the only major use of warping to skip huge map chunks for LTC.

[deathinajar]

I have only ever used warp in the final level of SD to get Marth directly to the final boss. Other than that I don't mind it, makes the level more complex.

[Renall]

I hate it and wish it was gone. Warp makes it too easy to bypass parts of the map, even with the range-limit in place, and it's only uses aside from warp-skipping are too limited to make it worthwhile for anything besides warpskipping. Maybe if FE didn't have so many 'seize' type maps, but it does, making the only major use of warping to skip huge map chunks for LTC.

That's actually an interesting point; if there were fewer Seize/Boss/Arrive maps and more Defend maps, then all Warp really does is help you get items (Tahra chapter of FE5) or put a character in tremendous danger in hopes of getting at squishies or opening a new front (a theoretical FE9 where you have Warp for Rhys in that one Defend map). Problem is that Rescue slingshotting (Pega-Pony + Galeforce + Rescue is the Warp of FE13) is already insanely useful in Awakening which is mostly full of Rout maps, but Routs are at least not solely defined by getting at one enemy.

That idea I once had for capture zones would make Warp of marginal use too. You could get one guy to secure a cap zone, but if it requires 3 to take over then you either blow 3 Warp charges over 2-3 turns or you gotta make the other two get there the old-fashioned way.

Basically if Seize were Seize Area and required more than the Lord taking a throne in a single action, warpskipping becomes somewhat obsolete. If it's instead "room clear of enemies, 3 total allies in throne room, Lord on throne," you can't just warp in one king shitkicker and Marth-or-whoever and insta-win.

[CT075]

idk about the fe4 thing, you can do some insane things with warp if you have a single rescue (this include corple or whoever)

Edited March 25, 2013 by CT075

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

If the Warp is like SD, no

DD is a bit of a weird case because you can't 1 turn warp skip. Instead, you can simply warp Marth who will curbstomp the boss alone for a seize next turn.

Thats still chapter skipping so..... yeah

GBA maybe? IIRC the Sacred Stones version actually have a range limit. That + some ways to incorporate Kishuna's Magic Seal would be pretty awesome

[Renall]

A class that actively blocks staff use in a radius would be pretty cool. Maybe make that a feature of Dread Fighters or Summoners, so certain areas are strategically blocked off from Warp use unless the blocker is taken out. Don't make them also block tomes though because that's pretty lame.

[Ϲharlie]

My first inclination was to say "no, warpskipping is lame", but then I realized there was never a time I felt the need to use a warp staff outside of recruiting Xavier and just general putting around with stuff. I'm okay with warp because it gives people who would be inclined to use it the option without impeding on my enjoyment of the game.