Baldrick Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Not everything is a damned debate. This. I am still surprised how often the idea of efficiency is brought up in this discussion. The discussion is about Nino in HHM. I would think it would be clear there is no sort of efficiency goals being met at all. The moment you bring up trying to train Nino (other than for experience rank) efficiency is out the door. Efficiency is love, efficiency is life I think because it's so popular here, many people don't realise or disregard what's feasible when you don't care about turn count. It doesn't help that efficiency contexts tend to make for more interesting discussion. Otherwise, I have not played HHM in ages, but are there not a few knights to KO? If not, then the wyverns to pick-out near the end of the level are easily good targets for easy training. Otherwise, you can always pick out a shaman, monk, or mage to lure onto a fort. Waste the damage. Have them heal and let Nino generic enemy abuse for experience :D OH, and Nino is great for CoG actually since if you talk to Lloyd with (maybe linus too) with her he moves off the fort. He is already annoying to KO without having to deal with the extra evasion and defence. Wyverns are a good match up for her, and she can at least chip against most of the other units in Sonia's chapter. With careful farming of the reinforcements, she could get close to 50 kills in that chapter, enough to make her self-sufficient thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) What's your point? I'm just flat out telling the risks and rewards of attempting to train Nino on Cog. My point? HHM CoD stacks pretty much everything against her. Can't do much damage to anything that's promoted, and they leave her hurting in return. And this is after a level that has a very bad layout for trying to dedicate to a training ground. Beating the enemies within an inch of their lives with other characters and then finishing them off with Nino in Night of Farewells isn't as hard as you make it sound. Jaffar can do the former pretty easily with an iron sword. Part of it is because most of the enemies at that point are still unpromoted, and the wrath of your promoted units is likely to prove too much for anything that's not a wyvern or knight, the latter of which you won't be seeing much of from that point on, and it ain't like wyverns are all that common either after Nino joins... Otherwise, I have not played HHM in ages, but are there not a few knights to KO? If not, then the wyverns to pick-out near the end of the level are easily good targets for easy training. Otherwise, you can always pick out a shaman, monk, or mage to lure onto a fort. Waste the damage. Have them heal and let Nino generic enemy abuse for experience :D OH, and Nino is great for CoG actually since if you talk to Lloyd with (maybe linus too) with her he moves off the fort. He is already annoying to KO without having to deal with the extra evasion and defence. Nope. HHM CoD is a complete overhaul from CoD on other difficulties, as everyone and their grandpa is a mage. And the only wyverns in said level come with Vaida, who spawns near the beginning of said level. Also, you'd have to advance quite a bit to get to most of the forts on that level. Conceded on the point that Nino can talk with Lloyd (Linus will attack her), but I'd be VERY hesitant to bring her along just for that. Wyverns are a good match up for her, and she can at least chip against most of the other units in Sonia's chapter. With careful farming of the reinforcements, she could get close to 50 kills in that chapter, enough to make her self-sufficient thereafter. See above point about NoF's layout. Edited November 14, 2014 by Levant Caprice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Pardon me Levant, but the way you say that she isn't worth the training (by saying "And I don't see the payoff as nearly enough to justify busting my ass to raise her, like, at all.") implies that you haven't even bothered training her once. It really isn't as hard on NoF as you think. If I can do it on HNM, it should be doable on HHM as well (just have her blast stuff with elfire). Course, not sure that applies to Cog because I haven't played HHM. I am still surprised how often the idea of efficiency is brought up in this discussion. The discussion is about Nino in HHM. I would think it would be clear there is no sort of efficiency goals being met at all. The moment you bring up trying to train Nino (other than for experience rank) efficiency is out the door. You know, I have to agree with this point. I said previously that training Nino will kill tactics. The idea that other magic users are better is already on the table, people. Nobody is saying Nino is a good investment. Nobody is saying Pent isn't flat out better. Telling the risks and rewards of using Nino is not defending her ability, it's just telling what using her is like. Thank you so much for making that point clear. Although, the creator of this thread said that Nino is indeed a good investment, and is implying Pent isn't flat out better. It sucks that all of the anima mages in this game are mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Pardon me Levant, but the way you say that she isn't worth the training (by saying "And I don't see the payoff as nearly enough to justify busting my ass to raise her, like, at all.") implies that you haven't even bothered training her once. It really isn't as hard on NoF as you think. If I can do it on HNM, it should be doable on HHM as well (just have her blast stuff with elfire). Course, not sure that applies to Cog because I haven't played HHM. Actually, I have. And considering the trouble I had to go through to get her anywhere, I stand by my position. Also, lolelfire. You'd squander Nino's ONE good stat for 2 points of Mt (relative to Thunder)??? Edited November 14, 2014 by Levant Caprice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 My point? HHM CoD stacks pretty much everything against her. Can't do much damage to anything that's promoted, and they leave her hurting in return. And this is after a level that has a very bad layout for trying to dedicate to a training ground.momogeek2141 never suggested anything otherwise. You sound like you're trying to prove wrong someone who never tried to disagree with you in the first place. Part of it is because most of the enemies at that point are still unpromoted, and the wrath of your promoted units is likely to prove too much for anything that's not a wyvern or knight, the latter of which you won't be seeing much of from that point on, and it ain't like wyverns are all that common either after Nino joins...It is pretty unlikely that every unit on your team will be OHKOing all the enemies in NoF with any weapon. FE7 enemies aren't that weak. Is training Nino "worth it?" That is subjective. Is it "efficient?" Almost definitely not. It just is what it is, and for the last page or so that's all anyone's been trying to say. This isn't a tier list, and for the record, I have used Nino in HHM (S rank, even) and feeding her kills for a couple maps wasn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) momogeek2141 never suggested anything otherwise. You sound like you're trying to prove wrong someone who never tried to disagree with you in the first place. It is pretty unlikely that every unit on your team will be OHKOing all the enemies in NoF with any weapon. FE7 enemies aren't that weak. Is training Nino "worth it?" That is subjective. Is it "efficient?" Almost definitely not. It just is what it is, and for the last page or so that's all anyone's been trying to say. This isn't a tier list, and for the record, I have used Nino in HHM (S rank, even) and feeding her kills for a couple maps wasn't that hard. I guess I misunderstood him... Well, we don't have enemy stats to work with, but agreed. Thing is, given that even in lategame, you still have unpromoted units outnumbering promoted units, for the most part... Conceded. BTW, I have used Nino in my one HHM playthrough, though that was years ago. Edited November 14, 2014 by Levant Caprice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Great. We all understand each other. Nino's a good unit (statwise). Everyone agrees on that fact. The only difference is that some people are willing to put up with the work into her, and others don't. Personally, I feel that Nino's one of the weaker Ests. I raised her multiple times, she turned out good, but she didn't stand out. Heck, all GBA Ests are like that. Sophia is crap, Zeiss is only good on HM, where he's hard to train, and Ewan's too slow. Really, IMO, the best Est is the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Great. We all understand each other. Nino's a good unit (statwise). Everyone agrees on that fact. The only difference is that some people are willing to put up with the work into her, and others don't. Personally, I feel that Nino's one of the weaker Ests. I raised her multiple times, she turned out good, but she didn't stand out. Heck, all GBA Ests are like that. Sophia is crap, Zeiss is only good on HM, where he's hard to train, and Ewan's too slow. Really, IMO, the best Est is the original. Hmm. Doesn't L'Arachel count? I was under the impression that she did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 See above point about NoF's layout. If most of the enemies are unpromoted, you could afford to deploy some unpromoted units as well. Or use a slow unit/heavy weapon/Rescue to stop a promoted unit from doubling. Hmm. Doesn't L'Arachel count? I was under the impression that she did... Archetypes are bullshit. That is to say, depending on what qualities of a unit you are interested in, you can define archetypes in many different ways. If you find her to be an Est, L'Arachel certainly counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 all GBA Ests are like that. Sophia is crap I really don't think Sophia even counts as an Est. Her growth rates in stats that aren't resistance or magic are completely awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 L arachel is okay. Her only problem is that she is a healer but not a fighter. She's pretty good otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I use Nino because if she can become better than Erk or Pent, even if it's the same result, I will use her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 L arachel is okay. Her only problem is that she is a healer but not a fighter. She's pretty good otherwise. Her problem is that she joins at level 3, as a healer. Not that she is a healer alone. Is nino and her level pile that she brings to Srank games a necessity? I havent sranked so im not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Pretty sure it's not. Even Genealogy's strict EXP rank gives you more than 35 levels grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Is nino and her level pile that she brings to Srank games a necessity? I havent sranked so im not sureShe's no more a "necessity" than anyone else who starts at a similar level. Generally you'll want to level everyone up to ~10, but you can get away with not using someone like Nino at all if you're good enough at distributing experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I think you are completely right. Nino really is an amazing unit who is really easy to train as long as you aren't careless with her. I forgot to bring a fire tome to battle before dawn and she was stuck with her elfire tome and she still was pretty much fine. And to compare her to pent. The only reason I would ever use pent is because of his weapon ranks and con. That's all he has going for him besides slightlyrics over average base stats. And Nino does have a lot of room to grow. I got her to lv 2 promoted in Sonias chapter and by that point she is better than any other magic user in the army. Supports aren't a problem because support grinding.definitely my favoritemail of the blazing sword magic users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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