Chloe Neo Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 But what about Henry? Does that 10 extra hit from Hit+20 over Anathema make that much of a difference? Seeing as most dark mages hit rate sucks it wouldn't make that much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Seeing as most dark mages hit rate sucks it wouldn't make that much of a difference. No, I mean as a father for Gerome to give him berserker with a +hit skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Neo Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 It might make a bit of difference then seeing as berserkers haven't got that much skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fengaridotdll Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I see your mention of the Knight/General design and raise you Berserkers. They look absolutely [EFF!]ing HIDEOUS. I like the Berserker design, even though the animations are kinda bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 2nd gen female: Noire. Like Gerome, no way for her to get everything she needs to capitalize on her Mag without Avatar. Wait, what? I would've guessed you'd say Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Flavia and Basillio can at least kill a General or two and maybe a Berserker(Flavia can double Berserkers with a Basillio Pair-up on Hard Mode) in their joining chapter, and Basillio can use Rally Strength. That seems a lot better than whatever Donnel hasn't been accomplishing. I am arguing on availability. When donnel is trained does he give suitable and long term utility. For many chapters he could be doing chip damage getting final kills and eventually getting good enough by mid late game to be killing more things than flavia or basillio. I am not looking at only LTC where donnel costs more turns than he saves. I am looking at pure amount of time for doing anything useful in any mode. In thaT case, character availability plays a huge part in being useful or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I am arguing on availability. When donnel is trained does he give suitable and long term utility. For many chapters he could be doing chip damage getting final kills and eventually getting good enough by mid late game to be killing more things than flavia or basillio. I am not looking at only LTC where donnel costs more turns than he saves. I am looking at pure amount of time for doing anything useful in any mode. In thaT case, character availability plays a huge part in being useful or not. This sounds not unlike a certain argument I read for PoR Rolf not being the worst character in the game... and I'm sure it's every bit as wrong now as it was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) useful means contributing to making a chapter easier, and training donnel requires softening tons of enemies just so he can finish off, and he soaks a lot of exp. even if you don't care at all about turns, you'll have a hard time training donnel, as he gets 40 exp from each generic kill and thus needs about 50 (?) kills spoonfed to get past bronze weapons. flavia and basilio come with solid bases and access to useful weapons at least, and how well they fare in comparison doesn't count since having an additional hammer or silver bow user or a quick sword!hero is nice anyways, even if only as a filler. it's better than bronze-lock. Edited January 10, 2015 by Gradivus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxmonste Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Wait, what? I would've guessed you'd say Nah. Why Nah? I don't see why she would be considered a bad unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Ricken sucks so much This is very true. Miriel can do his job better than he can. YOU HAD ONE JOB, RICKEN. I would say Virion. I've never been really good with archers in the series I've always kinda hated them. The only ones I've been able to use effectively are Rebecca from FE7 and Shinon from FE9 and 10. I actually like Donnel he almost gets a perfect level up every time I use him and once you get him to mercenary and hero he turns into a god. Plus he can pass on aptitude alot of the children characters to make them even more OP. Virion. Even in Lunatic+ where bow users are gods thanks to avoiding counter (IMO)... 5 Speed. And he never levels in Defense or Speed for me, which is more than a problem in Loony+. Outside of Lunatic+, where this isn't an issue, the problem is more with his class (and Wyvern and Mage aren't great reclasses for Virion IMO, plus you'd have to get him to level 10). HISSSSSSS!!! Get off my lawn!! I see what you guys mean but hes really not the worst even in Loony. Donnel is pretty bad. Omg. Thing is with him, he gives good things to babies. Like good classes and Aptitude for no-grind runs. Thats nice. As a unit, hes balls. Character Design? I wish Nowi's outfit wasnt the ug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fengaridotdll Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Character Design? I wish Nowi's outfit wasnt the ug. I think they were trying to capitalize on making you feel weird about marrying Nowi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Oh, and since others here are mentioning character design, I have one mention - Panne, Panne, PANNE. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Wait, what? I would've guessed you'd say Nah. Well she's the only one who needs the avatar to get both galeforce and a proc. Her hard support stats are pretty meh (+1 Str, +1 Mag, -1 Skl, wasting most of her fantastic manakete mod total on Def and Res) and she has no access to the best physical hard support classes and needs Henry to be a good hard magic support class with mods that suit a magical husband. Edited January 10, 2015 by Alastor15243 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Oh, and since others here are mentioning character design, I have one mention - Panne, Panne, PANNE. Ugh. Whoa. The Panini is amaze. Why you hate? I think they were trying to capitalize on making you feel weird about marrying Nowi Yeah maybe. Unless you have that shortie MU. (and are 12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Whoa. The Panini is amaze. Why you hate? I guess you don't realize that you're addressing someone who absolutely can't stand her. It's largely because of her personality. Edited January 10, 2015 by Levant Caprice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I guess you don't realize that you're addressing someone who absolutely can't stand her. It's largely because of her personality. Wow, bun hate. *backs away slowly* I thought we were talking about actual aesthetic design but whatevs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Wow, bun hate. *backs away slowly* I thought we were talking about actual aesthetic design but whatevs. That has quite a bit to do with it as well - her design just screams "eye cancer" to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singularity Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 how could people mention character design and no one said Sorcs yet they're p much the worst character design ever, the males are eye cancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 how could people mention character design and no one said Sorcs yet they're p much the worst character design ever, the males are eye cancer Male Sorcerer isn't that bad, it's Male Dark Mage that bugs me. That and Female Cavalier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 how could people mention character design and no one said Sorcs yet they're p much the worst character design ever, the males are eye cancer Take a look at the General class and compare it to the ones in past FE's. Its by far more horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) how could people mention character design and no one said Sorcs yet they're p much the worst character design ever, the males are eye cancer I'm not bothered by the male Sorcerer nearly as much as I am by the male Dark Mage. And Sniper in general. Take a look at the General class and compare it to the ones in past FE's. Its by far more horrendous. Same here, except replace "General" with "Berserker". Edited January 11, 2015 by Levant Caprice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fengaridotdll Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm not bothered by the male Sorcerer nearly as much as I am by the male Dark Mage. And Sniper in general. Same here, except replace "General" with "Berserker". Or replace it with "Great Knight". Love the class, despise the design My favorite class design in Awakening is the Swordmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 useful means contributing to making a chapter easier, and training donnel requires softening tons of enemies just so he can finish off, and he soaks a lot of exp. even if you don't care at all about turns, you'll have a hard time training donnel, as he gets 40 exp from each generic kill and thus needs about 50 (?) kills spoonfed to get past bronze weapons. flavia and basilio come with solid bases and access to useful weapons at least, and how well they fare in comparison doesn't count since having an additional hammer or silver bow user or a quick sword!hero is nice anyways, even if only as a filler. it's better than bronze-lock. Alright. These forums are part of a site called Serenes Forest. If you go to the tab that says Serenes Forest, you'll get the rest of the site, which has a lot of data. Like this. Scroll all the way down, and you'll see just how many hits it takes to get from E Lances to D - 15. Assuming Donnel is recruited, he should have at least 4 WEXP to his name (since he will not fully level on his first kill). That means he needs an additional 13 hits to go from E to D. Yes, Donnel has his issues, but 50 hits with a Bronze Lance isn't one of them. Flavia/Basilio, at least, can donate their weapons, and if absolutely necessary, reclass into another promoted class for better support bonuses. Not that you'd want a base support anything, but it's still a possibility (which a level 2 Donnel won't do as well at that point in the game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I was meaning getting past Bronze weapons altogether, which is becoming a lv. 10 villager, then reclassing to Merc, since Villager isn't longterm. I'm totally aware that WEXP isn't a 50 distance between Bronze and Iron. I guess assuming 50 kills is too high. to calculate how much kills fed it is in fact: Paralogue 1 recruitment req, 1 Thief, 1 Generic, Lv 2 2 kills. 8 levels necessary for reclass (which is 20*40 exp) 2 thief kills shave off a generic kill, so 19 villager kills. 2nd sealed to merc after 21 kills. merc from bronze to iron, 15 kills. then maybe an arms scroll to get access to stronger swords, namely KE and Steel, I guess, but I haven't got much experience with using donnel, aside from feeding him 2 kills for complete recruitment. 50 was much indeed, and it (actually significantly) drops to 30 (assuming that he'll have some not-too-bad stats after some time as a merc) kills, but most of them must still be spoonfed and also limit exp distribution to other units a lot. it can be helped with +7 additional atk using str tonic and forged bronze lance so his atk is at least double-digit. yeah, he isn't completely unsalvageable. but none of the awakening units actually is, and he's a huge pain to get going at all. Edited January 11, 2015 by Gradivus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Targaryen Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 useful means contributing to making a chapter easier, and training donnel requires softening tons of enemies just so he can finish off, and he soaks a lot of exp. even if you don't care at all about turns, you'll have a hard time training donnel, as he gets 40 exp from each generic kill and thus needs about 50 (?) kills spoonfed to get past bronze weapons. flavia and basilio come with solid bases and access to useful weapons at least, and how well they fare in comparison doesn't count since having an additional hammer or silver bow user or a quick sword!hero is nice anyways, even if only as a filler. it's better than bronze-lock. If we are to take this definition of usefulness, I must agree on every point. Also, it becomes more effort than it's worth to recruit him on higher difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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