Still no shields? Oh, and there's monsters.

[dragonlordsd]

So, I know japan is a country that never actually invented shields (which is kind of weird if you think about it. I mean, even the aztecs had shields), but I just find it incredibly amusing that no one bothers to carry a shield around. Seriously, could really help against all those arrows.

Oh, and there's monsters again. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet. Thoughts?

[Jedi]

So, I know japan is a country that never actually invented shields (which is kind of weird if you think about it. I mean, even the aztecs had shields), but I just find it incredibly amusing that no one bothers to carry a shield around. Seriously, could really help against all those arrows.

Oh, and there's monsters again. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet. Thoughts?

Someone was using a shield in the trailer. Not to mention there have been a number of people to use shields in the series, See all the Tellius games, Marth, Chrom etc.

Also monsters were done well in FE2 and FE8 not to mention TRS (unrelated but close enough) I doubt it will be like the Risen where we are given no explanation for their existence other then OOOOOH ENEMIES

[dragonlordsd]

I agree completely. I want FE 8 monsters, not risen!!! Risen are just palate swaps of existing units!!!

[Elieson]

Fili Shield

Delphi Shield

[Dragoncat]

I doubt it will be like the Risen where we are given no explanation for their existence other then OOOOOH ENEMIES

Pretty sure we were, actually. They're people that the grimleal raised from the dead I think.

[Jedi]

Pretty sure we were, actually. They're people that the grimleal raised from the dead I think.

Oh, I was discussing it on Skype and the group I was discussing it with couldn't for the life of them come up with a reason for their existence.

[IGdood]

The Japanese did have shields in the first few centuries but by the 1200s their weaponry took on a two-handed approach. The foot soldiers utilized the naginata polearm and the tachi sword. The samurai began as horse archers and so their shields were actually part of the shoulder armor which curiously enough, was also a characteristic of armor of nomadic steppe factions such as those of the Saka and Scythians.

They did have giant shields during sieges similar to that of the European pavise which archers used as cover, but that's about as close as they got. It seems that their priorities were mobility and fast attack, not to slug it out which seems to be more of a Western idea of warfare.

I would love for a support conversation between an Eastern and Western character arguing about shields. Even better if the Westerner brings up the myth of shields being dishonorable.

[dragonlordsd]

Huh, interesting. I know the chinese had shields, but I didn't think japan ever did.

Makes sense that they'd ditch them. After all, they never had to worry about longbows.

Or platemail.

Edited January 15, 2015 by dragonlordsd

[lancerusso]

They did have giant shields during sieges similar to that of the European pavise which archers used as cover, but that's about as close as they got. It seems that their priorities were mobility and fast attack, not to slug it out which seems to be more of a Western idea of warfare.

Quoted for truth. The relative rarity of useful metals on the Japanese Archipelago meant that iron was conserved to make only the most important of things- Swords, Spearheads, etc. Plate steel armour wasn't a thing because it would be too expensive where wood and laquered leather is adequate. There was an unique shield technology that the japanese had, though: The Horo. It's a billowing cloak of silk that actually stops arrows from penetrating it. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B_6BU7SYf8. The Pegasus knights in this game sorely need them.

Oh, and Dragonlordsd, the Japanese DID have longbows. Although matchlocks were brought into use in japan at a point where they could have imported better plate armour, so it never had a niche there.

Edited January 15, 2015 by lancerusso

[powerserg]

I love that real monsters are likely to make a return. We only saw one but Risen were not awakenings strong point. They were passible as a thing to grind but the previous games with monsters in the series all did it better.

Side Note: I would love a monster Tamer class or something that could turn into monsters collecting something from them when killing them. I think that would be a cool new class to throw in.

[IGdood]

Quoted for truth. The relative rarity of useful metals on the Japanese Archipelago meant that iron was conserved to make only the most important of things- Swords, Spearheads, etc. Plate steel armour wasn't a thing because it would be too expensive where wood and laquered leather is adequate. There was an unique shield technology that the japanese had, though: The Horo. It's a billowing cloak of silk that actually stops arrows from penetrating it. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B_6BU7SYf8. The Pegasus knights in this game sorely need them.

Oh, and Dragonlordsd, the Japanese DID have longbows. Although matchlocks were brought into use in japan at a point where they could have imported better plate armour, so it never had a niche there.

It's funny to see how quickly they transitioned to pike and shot. Bows still had a use to provide covering fire while the gunners reloaded but eventually it went to who had the most guns pointing at someone.

The horo is indeed pretty unique, though you should see some of the other things they wore on their backs to battle.

I love that real monsters are likely to make a return. We only saw one but Risen were not awakenings strong point. They were passible as a thing to grind but the previous games with monsters in the series all did it better.

Side Note: I would love a monster Tamer class or something that could turn into monsters collecting something from them when killing them. I think that would be a cool new class to throw in.

Youkai vs. Goblins? Perhaps Eastern monsters vs. Western monsters?

[Leif]

I would love Fire Emblem if, if it had a shield item that units could equip for an extra Avoid or Defense bonus. Tear Ring and Berwick Saga did that pretty well. Maybe units like knights, paladins, or other foot soldier units have the option of equipping shields.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Leif

[IGdood]

I could love Fire Emblem if, if it had a shield item that units could equip for an extra Avoid or Defense bonus. Tear Ring and Berwick Saga did that pretty well. Maybe units like knights, paladins, or other foot soldier units have the option of equipping shields.

That's a great idea! Perhaps it can be opened for further options to include items that passively give bonuses to nearby units. They can be worn by units that need to be protected because they're combat-poor.

[NoNameAtAll]

I love that real monsters are likely to make a return. We only saw one but Risen were not awakenings strong point. They were passible as a thing to grind but the previous games with monsters in the series all did it better.

Side Note: I would love a monster Tamer class or something that could turn into monsters collecting something from them when killing them. I think that would be a cool new class to throw in.

Actually, Gaiden and Sacred Stones /always/ used Revenants and Entombed as grinding scrubs. I agree on the Risen being palette swaps being lame. How unnerving would it have been if Risen were in the forms of the children characters' parents? Would've been a better use of the idea, similar to how the Deadlords in Thracia were. (If you either sucked or avoided 24x like the plague)

[powerserg]

Youkai vs. Goblins? Perhaps Eastern monsters vs. Western monsters?

Oh that would be really cool. I would love to see elements of that inside the game. The enemy of my enemy and all.

Actually, Gaiden and Sacred Stones /always/ used Revenants and Entombed as grinding scrubs. I agree on the Risen being palette swaps being lame. How unnerving would it have been if Risen were in the forms of the children characters' parents? Would've been a better use of the idea, similar to how the Deadlords in Thracia were. (If you either sucked or avoided 24x like the plague)

That would have been pretty awesome, or leading into the final chapter if that was a part of the plot. An extra bonus chapter for unlocking all kids where you then had to kill all the parents and could only use children units. That would be intense and show a reflection of how horrible the world they live in was for them.

[dragonlordsd]

Quick note, the japanese did not actually have true longbows. The Yumi they used were asymmetrical, and as a result relied on different muscles to actually draw and fire the bow. While this made it possible to use while on horseback, but severely undercut the effectiveness of the bow as well.

You know what would be really cool? Youkai vs. Grimm's fairy tale monsters. I think it'd be really cool if instead of just using the vanilla orc and goblin designs you see in just about every video game, they tried to find some uniquely European monsters, like the kind they had in Soul Sacrifice.

[NoNameAtAll]

Oh that would be really cool. I would love to see elements of that inside the game. The enemy of my enemy and all.

That would have been pretty awesome, or leading into the final chapter if that was a part of the plot. An extra bonus chapter for unlocking all kids where you then had to kill all the parents and could only use children units. That would be intense and show a reflection of how horrible the world they live in was for them.

Exactly. Again, Thracia did it with Eyvel (Very interesting in her case), Lifis, Dagdar, Sara, Galzus and Raydrik (He's always around regardless).

Mind you, they didn't do enough with that even then. One can theoretically have Tanya attack Deadlord Dagdar and there was no reaction or anything despite her father becoming a Deadlord.

But I'm rambling. The point stands. I'm glad there's actual monsters, but if they absolutely have to bring back Risen, why not go with that? Sounds lame, but it would show the enemy being a lot more sinister.

[powerserg]

You know what would be really cool? Youkai vs. Grimm's fairy tale monsters. I think it'd be really cool if instead of just using the vanilla orc and goblin designs you see in just about every video game, they tried to find some uniquely European monsters, like the kind they had in Soul Sacrifice.

I think that would be a really nice touch. If we get some SMT type monster design in the game. I'm not going to cry if Risen are a thing again but I'm not going to be excited ether.

[Shadow Knight]

I wouldn't mind a couple new weapon classes to shake things up like shields. But I doubt it, the weapon triangle is held in very high regard by the fanbase and as much as I want it shaken up a bit, I also don't want it to be ruined.

[powerserg]

I wouldn't mind a couple new weapon classes to shake things up like shields. But I doubt it, the weapon triangle is held in very high regard by the fanbase and as much as I want it shaken up a bit, I also don't want it to be ruined.

Maybe just throwing in a third Triangle could fix that?

[Jedi]

Maybe just throwing in a third Triangle could fix that?

We've had three triangles before, it wasn't anything special, then again it didn't relate to shields.

[powerserg]

We've had three triangles before, it wasn't anything special, then again it didn't relate to shields.

It did not, I'm simply suggesting it wasn't offensive so it might be worthy if they tries totally new weapon types with it.

[thecrimsonflash]

off topic but am I the only one who thinks that this should have been called to shield or not to shield

[Nackar]

I wouldn't mind a couple new weapon classes to shake things up like shields. But I doubt it, the weapon triangle is held in very high regard by the fanbase and as much as I want it shaken up a bit, I also don't want it to be ruined.

Yes, I get that. I would really like a few new weapon classes though - it's one of the things I most look forward to for each new FE game, and so far we've really only gotten knives or crossbows, and neither one interested me much.

[Magical CC]

Quick note, the japanese did not actually have true longbows. The Yumi they used were asymmetrical, and as a result relied on different muscles to actually draw and fire the bow. While this made it possible to use while on horseback, but severely undercut the effectiveness of the bow as well.

Nah. The force Yumi bow generates is almost as high as long bow's. They have the same effective range. While long bow does have better penetrate force due to heavier and tougher arrow, both are useless against platemail. None of the long bow test managed to penetrated plate armor even under perfect conditions. With lamellar armor being especially effective against arrow, Japanese needs no platemail. If anything, mass Yumi bow were used by infantry before they change to firearm. Yumi bow also shoots faster than long bow and requires less draw force from the archer.

Japanese also have their own version of plate armor which became a standard for samurai simply because the lamellar armor they were using is ineffective against firearm which became popular during 16th century.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Magical Amber