Want to make a new tier list?

[Junkhead]

Hey, let's make a new tier list! シ


Da "rules"

- The following tier list applies within the context of an effeciency-type run.

What is "effeciency", you ask? Simply put, it's to carry out an action with minimum effort (think cost and time). For example, if someone like Haar can do wonders with only a Speedwings throughout the most important parts of the game, he's going to be better than someone like a maxed out Edward at 20/20/20 who will take a lot more effort to raise and will likely not pay off anywhere as much.

- Hard Mode

The best way to put something to the test is to throw at them the best jab the game can throw at you.

- Brisk pace

While "effeciency"-type runs may not necessarily be as quick as LTC runs (in matter of turns), that doesn't mean we'll stick around for the rout. If a given chapter can be completed in 1-turn, we'll take it.

- PEMN (Personal Experience Means Nothing シ)[/size]

okay, okay...! It may not mean nothing...in your experience. But for the sake of consistent and smooth-flowing arguements, we are to come to the agreement that we refer to averages whenever we are to talk about certain character's stats.



I don't really feel like adding in transfer characters, for no particular reason...

Am I forgetting anything?

[spoiler=Optimal resource distribution assumed; NOW WITH TRANSFERS]HEROES OF DAIEN

Haar
Jill (T - Str/Skill/Spd)

Top

Titania (N/T)
Jill
Sothe (N/T)
Ike (N/T)
Reyson
Rafiel

High

Oscar (T - Str/Skill/Spd)

Boyd (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Nolan

Leanne
Volug
Nephenee (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Marcia (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Mia (N/T)
Ulki (T - HP/Str)
Janaff
Ulki
Nailah
Oscar
Marcia
Tibarn (N/T)
Naesala (N/T)

Upper Mid

Micaiah
Tanith (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Gatrie (T - HP/Str/Skill/Spd/Def)
Tanith
Elincia (T- Mag/Skill/Spd)
Zihark (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Gatrie
Nephenee
Zihark
Soren (T - Mag/Skill/Spd/Res)
Boyd
Ranulf (T - Str)
Shinon (N/T)
Elincia
Ranulf
Mordecai (N/T)
Aran

Mid

Edward
Callil (T - HP/Str/Mag/Skillx2/Spdx2)
Heather
Giffca (T - Str)
Caineghis/Giffca
Skrimir
Laura
Kyza
Tauroneo
Callil
Kieran (T - HP/Str/Skill/Def)
Sigrun
Geoffrey (N/T)

Lower Mid

Lucia
Nealuchi
Muarim
Tormod (N/T)
Soren
Vika
Rolf (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Makalov (T - HP/Str/Skill/Spd/Def)
Brom (N/T)
Leonardo
Rolf
Nasir
Danved (T - HP/Str/Spd)
Makalov
Mist (somethingsomethingSpd)
Rhys (N/T)
Mist
Ilyana (N/T)
Renning
Ena
Gareth
Stefan (N/T)
Volke (N/T)
Lethe (N/T)

Low

Sanaki
Astrid (T - Str/Skill/Spd)
Danved
Astrid
Bastian
Lehran

[sMASH 4] (F)alco Tier

Meg
Fiona
Pelleas
Kurthnaga
Oliver

Yamcha Tier

Lyre
[/size]

I will go on modifying it when I realize things and/or when others make me change my mind.

Important Links:

Average Stats
FE10 HM Enemy Stats

Not-So-Important-Ones-But-Couldn't-Leave-Out

Hilarious Anecdotes

Edited September 29, 2015 by Soul~!

[Yojinbo]

Should probably make seperate tier lists for different parts or else we'll have endless discussion about how shitty DB and how OP GM are.

[Lord Raven]

I think we should stop having tier lists altogether because not only are they pointless, but we can never agree on the metric we want... which leads to endless and mindnumbing bickering and frustration. On top of that, you can't weigh utility vs combat as effectively, and you can't exactly "replace" one unit effectively with another. There's no next man up concept like in sports that we can debate over.

Edit: and most OPs are needlessly obtuse.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Radiant head]

After lurking the old tier list threads, I know I'll be staying away from this one.

[Snowy_One]

After lurking the old tier list threads, I know I'll be staying away from this one.

I'm confused as to why there needs to be a new tier-list at all when this seems like it will turn out the exact same way.

[Ownagepuffs]

Old tier list thread was 400+ pages of gold. I mean, you gotta give credit to years of debate packed into one thread.

[Florete]

Tier lists died because we got sick of debating tier list theory. I can't see them getting much attention again until the new game comes out, when one will inevitably pop up.

[ENS]

I'm on the Forum only from about four hours, and I'm absolutely sure this will end in blood.

[Ownagepuffs]

Tier lists died because we got sick of debating tier list theory. I can't see them getting much attention again until the new game comes out, when one will inevitably pop up.

Awakening didn't get an extensive one, so I don't see FE14 getting one either.

[Junkhead]

Should probably make seperate tier lists for different parts or else we'll have endless discussion about how shitty DB and how OP GM are.

Not to sound like I'm completely shutting down your idea, but I really don't find that....let's say, "necessary". Even if you were to get the better, more redeemable DBs up there in their own tier list, I don't think it'd make much of a difference. Sothe & Jill will still be at the top, Meg & Fiona will still be pretty awful......

I think we should stop having tier lists altogether because not only are they pointless, but we can never agree on the metric we want... which leads to endless and mindnumbing bickering and frustration. On top of that, you can't weigh utility vs combat as effectively, and you can't exactly "replace" one unit effectively with another. There's no next man up concept like in sports that we can debate over.

It doesn't need to have "a point". At least not in the way that you seem to refer to. It never really had much of a point other than being a sort of sport.

Old tier list thread was 400+ pages of gold. I mean, you gotta give credit to years of debate packed into one thread.

It was a great thread, and I tried to revived it. Problem is, I can't double-post.

I'm on the Forum only from about four hours, and I'm absolutely sure this will end in blood.

Not on my watch, lol.

Awakening didn't get an extensive one, so I don't see FE14 getting one either.

FE13 doesn't have much tactical depth to begin with...

[Florete]

Awakening didn't get an extensive one, so I don't see FE14 getting one either.

It did, actually. It lasted for almost 2,000 posts.

[Ownagepuffs]

It did, actually. It lasted for almost 2,000 posts.

By extensive, I meant relative to RD's tier thread (though that is an impressive turnout for FE13). Dat 400+ pages over the span of a few years is no joke. What was it about RD that made it last so long?

FE13 doesn't have much tactical depth to begin with...

This is legitimately insulting to people who are wracking their brains on consistent Lunatic+ clears. Edited March 15, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[dondon151]

By extensive, I meant relative to RD's tier thread (though that is an impressive turnout for FE13). Dat 400+ pages over the span of a few years is no joke. What was it about RD that made it last so long?

it happened at a time when the online fanbase was growing and the "metagame" was developing. the advent of LTC brought about discussions on tier list philosophy, which heralded the decline of tier lists.

This is legitimately insulting to people who are wracking their brains on consistent Lunatic+ clears.

finding a consistent FE13 lunatic+ clear is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. the mode is not designed that way.

[Florete]

By extensive, I meant relative to RD's tier thread (though that is an impressive turnout for FE13). Dat 400+ pages over the span of a few years is no joke. What was it about RD that made it last so long?

The RD tier list was up for some 4ish years before Awakening was even released. I believe it is also the only tier list on this forum that was never handed off to another editor and forced to have a new topic made for it.

RD is, in my opinion, not nearly as clear-cut when it comes to unit value as other FEs (not that others are so clean in the first place) due to the team-switching stuff. This caused opinions of value to change often, resulting in more discussion.

Ah, the days when Sothe was a mid-tier character.

[Ownagepuffs]

it happened at a time when the online fanbase was growing and the "metagame" was developing. the advent of LTC brought about discussions on tier list philosophy, which heralded the decline of tier lists.

finding a consistent FE13 lunatic+ clear is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. the mode is not designed that way.

Thank you for the explanation.

Also, L+ isn't designed for consistency but the early maps don't have as much variation in the skills. Counter, Pass and Pavise+/Aegis+ don't show up until C3 so you can have some pretty repeatable strategies early on.

The RD tier list was up for some 4ish years before Awakening was even released. I believe it is also the only tier list on this forum that was never handed off to another editor and forced to have a new topic made for it.RD is, in my opinion, not nearly as clear-cut when it comes to unit value as other FEs (not that others are so clean in the first place) due to the team-switching stuff. This caused opinions of value to change often, resulting in more discussion.Ah, the days when Sothe was a mid-tier character.

Cross team comparisons did make some placements difficult but they were interesting to read. The shittiest of the shit pile debates were the best.

[Moishe Oofnik]

I dont think sothe should be that high he is only god in part 1 in part 3 he starts decent but then becomes mediocre and in part 4 he is just bad

also include transfers and mia isnt thaat good to warrent high Ill get to this later

Nolan.>Mia

Part 1 has alot of bad units and nolan is godly and stays godly (unlike sothe)

Part 3 has many many better units then mia Titania, Haar , Oscar , Ike , Boyd to a degree mia doesnt contribute much or enough to warrent it self high tier also

Royalstomp>Being beroc for endgame

Edited March 15, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Lord Raven]

Cross team comparisons did make some placements difficult but they were interesting to read. The shittiest of the shit pile debates were the best.

Read the FE11 tier list. Early FE11 was all about Mage Caeda.

EDIT: Oh and there was a Normal Mode tier list to accompany Frey and Norne at some point. It was actually totally stupid, because half the arguments boiled down to "well you don't need much because these enemies are some terrible shit"

Edited March 15, 2015 by Lord Raven

[MacLovin]

this isn't going to end well at all.

I'm pretty sure fe10's thing boils down to the following:

-Do you have good bases and solid growths?

-Do you require constant use of disposable resources, and what makes you better at using them than the other units availible?

-Do you fly/have a 34+ 3rd tier spd cap?

-Availibility.

-How much bexp do you require to function in tip top shape

-If your name is Tormod, Lucia, Vika, or a cat laguz not named Mordecai/Ranulf.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Well, since you're talking about HM I kinda question about Haar being the best unit.

Sure he's the best in part 2 and in most chapters in part 3, but in lategame I totally go for JIll > Haar.

In 4-3 she can easily solo the map and double all the enemies unlike Haar.

In E-4 and 5 Jill has an advantage, because she can double all the tails and Ashera's auras.

Jill (with transfer boosts) is the most usable character of the liberation army.

She starts with eh bases, but becomes amazing.

With boosts she needs by far less effort than Haar to max out all her stats. And her caps are hardly worse than Haar's (35 strength, 38 skill, 36 defense + 35 speed).

In earlygame: Haar > Jill

In lategame: Jill > Haar

Jill is member of the "weakest" group so I defenitely give her more credits in total than I give Haar.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[dondon151]

uh haar is just as good as jill in 4-3 for all intents and purposes

the only reason why jill is considered "better" in part 4 maps is because she's assumed to get the boots in part 3, which saves a turn in 3-12 and allows her to 2-turn 3-13 (otherwise you'd have to use, like, a trained laguz stone volug).

[Florete]

I dont think sothe should be that high he is only god in part 1 in part 3 he starts decent but then becomes mediocre and in part 4 he is just bad

I agree, Sothe is God in part 1.

[MacLovin]

I'm pretty sure a sothe with adept+silver knife forges is along the lines of "meh" come p4.

but it has been forever since i played an fe10 hm run that far, lol.

[Mekkah]

An 1-range foot unit that can maybe ORKO with an Adept proc if using the most expensive of forge? Sign me up!

Come on, that makes him maybe the 21st person in a Top20. Sothe is very good in the first half of part 1 but his decline is real. There is no reason for him to be in his own tier.

[Moishe Oofnik]

As a man who played with transfer jill (Str HP speed def and skill capped)

Haar is still better only thing Jill is contributing more is endgame 34+ speed

Haar is just the best unit

He dominates part 2 he saves way more turns then Jill

and he only needs 1 speedwing to function as the best unit

Part 4-E

NO UNIT IS CONTRIBUTING MORE THEN IKE AND ROYALS AND TIBARN IS MVP

And the fact that haar can double things in 4-E that arent bosses/auras and double them with the brave axe anyway makes it pointless

Jill even with the transfers has some wierd transition phase until promo where Haar is always dominating transfer or not

Using a transfer on haar just make him have slightly better bases (I honestly dont remember) Making it kinda useless

Where as people like Calil get mad transfer bonuses that can actually Effect her usabillity

In HM Haar comes better then Jill promoted and only needs 1 speedwing to function perfectly throughout the game until 4-E

so Haar>Jill

Also for short

Sothes performance gurrentees high and top because he actually makes 1-3 and alot of the bridage chapters much much more playable and less of a chorse with his great bases

his performance dims in part 3 in the laguz invasion he isnt hurting alot without the beastfoe but he is still a decent unit in the other part 3 db chapters no if you trained nolan and doubled earth with zihark he isnt your frontliner anymore

in part 4 he is just in problem of a bad class (my sothe capped all stats 3 times because of how bad wisperer is) He isnt hurting anything he is stuck with the worst weapon type bane is awful (YOU ARE AT KILLING RANGE NOOOOOOOOOOO BANE ACTIVATED) baselerd is a weak SS rank compared to Urvan ETC.

Sothes performance shines in part 1 but he falls from the spotlight after the fail bridage starts to enter the bigleagues

in other news Nolan for higher then Mia in top because

Nolan becomes the best unit of the fail bridage

Mia is a footie with good combat but no where near the best nothing is really going for her she isnt titania or anything while Nolan starts very good and ends very good (He is one of the berocs I like bringing to endgame)

Mia for upper mid Nolan for Highest of High

The fact that mia doesnt stand out makes her not as good

Being and staying a great unit where alot of your units are shit is amazing

Being Decent and Staying decent while sorrunded in amazing units isnt great

Ill go on why lenne isnt good enough to be ranked about nolan

I think that her good (not haar lvl) contributions in part 2-E and being outclassed in her other playable chapters (why choose her when you got reyson or rafiel) dont really again quantify as above nolan WHO CONTRIBUTES MUCH MORE

You need to remember effeciency counts your playable chapters the reason why stefan isnt ranked highly while he is a statisticly very good trueblade is because he doesnt even exist for the game outclassed in endgame by royal stomp etc.

Include transfers they do matter especialy on the likes of ike

Edited March 15, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Yojinbo]

Availability is such a fucking mess in this game it's gonna be impossible to even reach a consensus on how ranking a unit in this game should be done in theory. Like, how the hell are you gonna compare units like Tormod and Lucia? They might as well be in two completely different games to all intents and purposes.

And then there's just units that make you wonder why the hell they are in the game to begin with. Like, wtf is Kyza in the game for.