Want to make a new tier list?

[Snowy_One]

Tier lists died because we got sick of debating tier list theory. I can't see them getting much attention again until the new game comes out, when one will inevitably pop up.

Wait, they're finally... dead? Like, seriously? No one's really talking about them anymore except for when the new games come out? Wow...

[Mekkah]

You don't have to sound so excited.

[CT075]

lol @ people saying haar is still > jill

[Florete]

Wait, they're finally... dead? Like, seriously? No one's really talking about them anymore except for when the new games come out? Wow...

Where have you been to not notice that tier list discussion hasn't exactly been the big thing as of late?

[Mekkah]

lol @ people saying haar is still > jill

lol @ people saying jill is > haar ? I can understand arguments either way and there's a good reason Haar will be rated higher by most people. It's not until 3-12 that Jill is a self-sustaining combat unit the way Haar is.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Jill overall contributes less then Haar

Haar has a much much better start and terrific performances in anything but endgame (y u no use royals)

its really hard to compare parts because FE:RD is messy at it is anyway

[Snowy_One]

Where have you been to not notice that tier list discussion hasn't exactly been the big thing as of late?

Avoiding them entirely in the hopes that they'll either die or I'll forget that they existed? Heck, in the Tellus games alone it feels like, 70% of the time, it's about trying to knock Mia down on the tier list or arguing a favorite up (usually Zihark, Stefan, or Eddy in my experience).

Edited March 15, 2015 by Snowy_One

[-Cynthia-]

Avoiding them entirely in the hopes that they'll either die or I'll forget that they existed? Heck, in the Tellus games alone it feels like, 70% of the time, it's about trying to knock Mia down on the tier list or arguing a favorite up (usually Zihark, Stefan, or Eddy in my experience).

I'll agree that 70% of Tellius tier discussion seems to be about Mia for some reason lol.

[Snowy_One]

I'll agree that 70% of Tellius tier discussion seems to be about Mia for some reason lol.

IMO it's because the Swordmasters are the most malliable of the classes in terms of ranking and fairly numerous compared to other classes and Mia has the unfortunate position of being the 'knot' that the entire tier list hinges on. In PoR she sits on the knot of efficiency vs. effort vs. raw power and in RD she sits on the knot of how the various chapters stack up against each other. You won't see many debates of Ilyana vs. Soren or Leonardo vs. Shinon, but Mia vs. Zihark vs. Eddy? Whoooo boy! An entire tier-list philosophy can hinge on the outcome of that!

[Eselred]

It's been a while since I played this game (hoping to get to it again soon), but from what I remember...

Top Tier:

Ike

Haar

Jill

Royals

High/Mid Tier:

Rest of the PoR people

Low Tier:

Fail Brigade

Bottom Tier:

Micaiah

I know it's overly simplified, and I'm missing some people, but honestly, character availability in this game is such an absolute mess because of the story jumping back and forth. You just kind of use whatever the best units are available to clear a chapter, then dump them all on the bench at end game for Ike + Royals + scraps.

Strange game...still love it though. It'd be my favorite Fire Emblem game by far if the Dawn Brigade didn't exist, or at least was a minor part of the game.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Eselred

[Junkhead]

Updated with the new Upper, Mid & Lower Mid. シ

EDIT: Important stuff; Thought of a way to dig out Kyza & Sigrun from their awful spots at Low/Lower Mid. I don't think they're that bad, sincerely. They start out rather bad, but they definitely have potential (that doesn't cost a ton).

Edited March 16, 2015 by The Red Queen

[Snowy_One]

Maybe we should ask the experienced RD tier debaters to stay away? If they're even interested at all? You know, let this list develop on its own instead of having one of the big fish come in and push their weight around?

[Junkhead]

Sorry, I don't mean to not hear people's opinion. I'm actually rather willing to adress most people's points (the ones that I don't, probably answered by others), but I wanted to reserve that for a later post. I think absolutely everyone should be welcomed. This isn't a flamewar, it can be a healthy arguement sport. Don't agree with my point? Fine, I won't insult you for it...

[Lord Raven]

I'll agree that 70% of Tellius tier discussion seems to be about Mia for some reason lol.

because she's OP with a sonic sword

[Florete]

Maybe we should ask the experienced RD tier debaters to stay away? If they're even interested at all? You know, let this list develop on its own instead of having one of the big fish come in and push their weight around?

I like how you take every chance you can get to take a shot at the "experienced tier debaters."

[Snowy_One]

Taking a shot? What? How is that taking a pot-shot? I'm just saying that we should keep our distance so this doesn't turn out to be the same thing as the old one. Let new ideas, notions, and arguments flow and all that.

[Moishe Oofnik]

ranking Mia that high is stupid can someone show me how can she save turns

Killing units is the same as overkilling them

Early draft of a Top and haar tier list

N=NonTransfer T=Transfer

God Tier:

(T) Ike

(N/T) Haar

(T)Jill

Top Tier:

(N/T)Titania

(N)Jill

(N)Ike

Reyson

Rafiel

(N/T)Sothe

Edited March 16, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[dondon151]

what snowy claims to be "new ideas" are just old ideas that are snowy-approved

FE10 is fairly close to being solved in terms of finding the fastest strategies with high reliability. the only future remaining in a tier list would involve endless bickering over philosophy and intractable cross-party comparisons. we had a taste of that back in 2010 and no one seemed to like it.

[Snowy_One]

what snowy claims to be "new ideas" are just old ideas that are snowy-approved

FE10 is fairly close to being solved in terms of finding the fastest strategies with high reliability. the only future remaining in a tier list would involve endless bickering over philosophy and intractable cross-party comparisons. we had a taste of that back in 2010 and no one seemed to like it.

...

What?

Why on earth would I 'approve' a list with

While "effeciency"-type runs may not necessarily be as quick as LTC runs (in matter of turns), that doesn't mean we'll stick around for the route. If a given chapter can be completed in 1-turn, we'll take it.

when I've historically spoken out against the use of turncounts as a measure for tier lists? Seriously. Besides, you guys like to think I'd argue Mia up at any cost. Don't you think

ranking Mia that high is stupid can someone show me how can she save turns

would rile me up if so? Seriously dondon. Supporting this list goes against me in every way, both real and projected. I just want to see what they come up with on their own without input from the vets.

[Radiant head]

Are anyone besides "the vets" invested in this?

Edited March 16, 2015 by Radiant head

[Florete]

Are anyone besides "the vets" invested in this?

Looking at my and dondon's apathy, I don't think "the vets" are invested in this much in the first place.

[Junkhead]

It takes guts to answer to all of this at once シ

I dont think sothe should be that high he is only god in part 1 in part 3 he starts decent but then becomes mediocre and in part 4 he is just bad

You said so yourself: He's god in Part 1. Sarcasm, aside (well, sort of), he's that high because of just how valuable he is to the team in Part 1. He has literally been the key factor to beating all the chapters he was in (barring 1-9 & 1-E, where he was rather secondary), he's irreplacable. As usual, his Late/Endgame performance is overrated- he's been helping out a lot more earlier in the game for that to matter (when strong fliers like Haar and Jill are bound to take over from there, anyway).

also include transfers and mia isnt thaat good to warrent high Ill get to this later

Naw, no transfers.

Nolan>Mia

Yep, done. I'm actually reconsidering Mia's position...I still think she's High tier, just not that amazing.

Part 1 has alot of bad units and nolan is godly and stays godly (unlike sothe)

While Nolan is still raising himself throughout Part 1 (because that's what most 1rst tier units are doing at that point), Sothe is carrying most of Part 1 on his back. Nolan's only real contribution are in 1-1 to 1-4, and even then, he's not fundamental like Sothe. I put him up that high because his shining moments should come in Part 3 & 4. Now that I think of it, he's sort of the opposite of Sothe, no?

Part 3 has many many better units then mia Titania, Haar , Oscar , Ike , Boyd to a degree mia doesnt contribute much or enough to warrent it self high tier also

Yeah, they're all better, barring Boyd. And that's why I put the others over her (barring Oscar, for now), I'm re-considering her position.

Well, since you're talking about HM I kinda question about Haar being the best unit.

Sure he's the best in part 2 and in most chapters in part 3, but in lategame I totally go for JIll > Haar.

In 4-3 she can easily solo the map and double all the enemies unlike Haar.
In E-4 and 5 Jill has an advantage, because she can double all the tails and Ashera's auras.

Jill (with transfer boosts) is the most usable character of the liberation army.
She starts with eh bases, but becomes amazing.
With boosts she needs by far less effort than Haar to max out all her stats. And her caps are hardly worse than Haar's (35 strength, 38 skill, 36 defense + 35 speed).

In earlygame: Haar > Jill
In lategame: Jill > Haar

Jill is member of the "weakest" group so I defenitely give her more credits in total than I give Haar.

Haar saves 4-turns of hell in 2-E alone and then proceeds to be a staple unit in Part 3, being the only flier with actual 2-range and amazing durability and stuff. Jill's only real "advantage" is being better in Endgame, which is like 10% of the game. Late/Endgame performances are overrated, when they only make so little of the game. And even then, Haar's Endgame performance is actually pretty good:

4-E-1: A max Spd Haar (pretty easy, by then) doubles everything but 2 Snipers (28 AS, the fastest there), he has Hammer and/or Brave Axe access (+ Stun) to ensure KO's on enemies he doesn't cleanly 1RKO. Things like low Res is also a problem shared by Ike, but that's why we aim to take out pesky Sleep staff users on Turn 1.
4-E-2: Doesn't matter. Ike 1RKO's BK and it's over.
4-E-3: Neither are making any (if any) significant contribution, unless you were to include killing a Dragon out of the way (Wyvernslayer users/Royals are taking out Dheginsea on Turn 1)
4-E-4: Caineghis/Giffca beat Lehran. Much like last chapter, you may have to take out one or two little balls out of the way and both Jill & Haar can do it (Haar with a Brave Axe). 1-turn.
4-E-5: Probably the only real part Jill has an advantage, if only because she can double Auras with Nasir's aid.


Of course, being a member of the weaker group is not something to handwave. We are giving her big credit for that, it's just that Haar does what he does quite longer, thoughout the whole of Part 3. Jill's only being amazing in her only three Part 3 chapters and in Part 4 where she might as well tie Haar for what it matters.

Come on, that makes him maybe the 21st person in a Top20. Sothe is very good in the first half of part 1 but his decline is real. There is no reason for him to be in his own tier.

okay, maybe I did exaggerate by giving him his very own tier. If I were to put him lower, the best I'd see myself doing is deleting his own tier and still putting him over Jill, lol. I just think he's THAT important for Part 1, while Jill is mostly raising herself in Part 1 (and even half of Part 3).

in other news Nolan for higher then Mia in top because

Nolan becomes the best unit of the fail bridage

Mia is a footie with good combat but no where near the best nothing is really going for her she isnt titania or anything while Nolan starts very good and ends very good (He is one of the berocs I like bringing to endgame)

Mia for upper mid Nolan for Highest of High

The fact that mia doesnt stand out makes her not as good

Being and staying a great unit where alot of your units are shit is amazing

Being Decent and Staying decent while sorrunded in amazing units isnt great

Ill go on why lenne isnt good enough to be ranked about nolan

I think that her good (not haar lvl) contributions in part 2-E and being outclassed in her other playable chapters (why choose her when you got reyson or rafiel) dont really again quantify as above nolan WHO CONTRIBUTES MUCH MORE

You need to remember effeciency counts your playable chapters the reason why stefan isnt ranked highly while he is a statisticly very good trueblade is because he doesnt even exist for the game outclassed in endgame by royal stomp etc.

Include transfers they do matter especialy on the likes of ike

Jill's the best among the DB, lol. And to answer your question, about Mia:

Mia's pretty great at what she does. What does she do? She kills. While many of your characters are having trouble doubling, she's pretty much entitled to Adept (excellent base Spd at doubles everything in Part 3 = great activation rate), a great support-partner in Ike (both get Atk/Avo) and she performs insanely well with a +Crit. forge. Well, what can you make out of this? Ike is better, yeah. That's why he's above her. But basically, she's just great in combat, which makes me re-considering her spot above Oscar...

Availability is such a fucking mess in this game it's gonna be impossible to even reach a consensus on how ranking a unit in this game should be done in theory. Like, how the hell are you gonna compare units like Tormod and Lucia? They might as well be in two completely different games to all intents and purposes.

And then there's just units that make you wonder why the hell they are in the game to begin with. Like, wtf is Kyza in the game for.

See what I did there, it's really not that hard. Even if a character were to have horrendous availability like the likes of someone like Tormod or Nailah, their contributions are pretty neat, meaning they aren't Bottom tier just because of that.

I'm also willing to argue that Kyza is not as bad as people ought him to be on the last tier list.

It's been a while since I played this game (hoping to get to it again soon), but from what I remember...

Top Tier:
Ike
Haar
Jill
Royals

High/Mid Tier:
Rest of the PoR people

Low Tier:
Fail Brigade

Bottom Tier:
Micaiah

I know it's overly simplified, and I'm missing some people, but honestly, character availability in this game is such an absolute mess because of the story jumping back and forth. You just kind of use whatever the best units are available to clear a chapter, then dump them all on the bench at end game for Ike + Royals + scraps.

Strange game...still love it though. It'd be my favorite Fire Emblem game by far if the Dawn Brigade didn't exist, or at least was a minor part of the game.

FE10 is an amazing game. シ

ranking Mia that high is stupid can someone show me how can she save turns

big whoop

How did effeciency tier list work, again? Is my criteria alright? A few characters don't exactly save turns, but their mere pressence can make a significant difference in the case of turn-count (secondary characters in 3-P & 3-1).

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Low Tier:

Fail Brigade

The term "Fail Brigade" still pisses me off since some units have actually better growths than the GM's.

Their only problem is that the enemies are higher levels than in Elincia's and Ike's group.

Growthwise:

Edward > Mia

Nolan > Boyd

The DB is just victim of the unbalanced difficulty in FE10.

[Yojinbo]

Guys, here's the real FE10 Tier list!

These dudes make the whole game a breeze:

Jill, Zihark, Volug, Haar, Ike, Titania, Shinon, Mia, Janaff, Ulki, Herons

These dudes are super useful but only for a limited amount of time:

Sothe, Elincia, Black Knight, Tauroneo, Oscar, Gatrie, Tormod, Muarim, Laguz Royals, Skrimir, Giffca

These dudes are kinda useful for some time:

Ilyana, Nolan, Laura, Geoffrey, Boyd, Tanith, Ranulf, Mordecai, Nealuchi, Ena, Nasir, Gareth

These dudes can kinda contribute in a few chapters but they don't actually matter:

Marcia, Kieran, Makalov, Edward, Leo, Brom, Calill, Danved, Nephenee, Heather, Mist, Soren, Rolf, Rhys, Sigrun, Vika, Lethe,

These dudes aren't actually in the game:

Lucia, Bastian, Volke, Sanaki, Oliver, Stefan, Kyza, Pelleas, Kurthnaga, Lehran, Renning

These dudes are worthless:

Micaiah, Aran, Astrid, Fiona, Meg, Lyre

Not ordered within tiers because who the hell cares.

[Irysa]

Lol you rated Skrimir above Tanith. What the fuck. Tibarn and Naesala are debatable, although I don't want to get into a pissing contest about that, but how is Skrimir better than Tanith?

Mic also staffbots so she's by default better than worthless.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Irysa