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Alphine

The Dark Prince/Princess Class

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So there's been some discussion on Kamui's class and such, so I'd like to state my opinions on the matter (please be mindful that this is my first post and I've only played Awakening, so I am not as familiar with previous generation concepts):

I do not believe that the class is directly tied to the manakete class. Kamui clearly does not appear to have the longevity ability that most (if not, all) manaketes in the series have. The transformation that Kamui goes through is different from other manaketes (or at least, from the versions in Awakening). Also, Kamui is clearly a different type of creature, given the new appearance that they have. Because I cannot read Japanese text, for anyone who is able to, would you mind elaborating on the translation of the status screen and such that may possibly give us an idea of what kind of stones will be usable in game (if there is any indication of this at all)? I feel as though it won't be dragonstones, exactly, given that Kamui is obviously not a manakete. Also, for those of whom it concerns, what drew you to the conclusion that Kamui was a manakete? The only similarity I saw was the use of stones and transformation (which doesn't even appear to be the same as in most games). Finally, anyone got an idea of what Kamui's custom class might be? Just want to know what thoughts you guys might have on it, given that I have literally none (since an activation skill seems a bit too early on to have in the game, so I've seen).

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The stone actually is a dragonstone (that's the literal translation) so that's why everyone just assumes Kamui is a manakete. Previously we had laguz in PoR/RD who were like manaketes and taguel but didn't need stones to transform. You could be right about them being different in this game/world though as I imagine Kamui is actually the age s/he appears to be and doesn't need to transform to fight. I could see them not calling it a manakete actually, even if they use dragonstones.

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The stone that is shown in Kamui's inventory is called dragonstone, exactly the same as others in the series.

The stone actually is a dragonstone (that's the literal translation) so that's why everyone just assumes Kamui is a manakete. Previously we had laguz in PoR/RD who were like manaketes and taguel but didn't need stones to transform. You could be right about them being different in this game/world though as I imagine Kamui is actually the age s/he appears to be and doesn't need to transform to fight. I could see them not calling it a manakete actually, even if they use dragonstones.

Well, I'm not entiely familiar with older game concepts (PoR/RD I'm somewhat familiar with, though), but there's no way Kamui is a manakete. I wonder if they'll just use different/forgable versions of the dragonstones this time? Regardless, I hope Kamui isn't the only one in the armies capable of transforming, and that there are different tribes in both respective countries.

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What do you mean there's no way Kamui is a manakete? He fits the description of a manakete without having the class(pointed ears, often red eyes, can use manakete exclusive dragonstones, a manakete is literally defined by the need to 'store' their dragon form in a stone). Unless you mean he is something exactly like a manakete under a different name, of course.

Edited by L95

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What do you mean there's no way Kamui is a manakete? He fits the description of a manakete without having the class(pointed ears, often red eyes, can use manakete exclusive dragonstones, a manakete is literally defined by the need to 'store' their dragon form in a stone). Unless you mean he is something exactly like a manakete under a different name, of course.

Honestly, it's mostly just the longevity that has me convinced s/he isn't. Maybe something leaning more towards the concept of a mix between manaketes and taguels, but not a full-blooded manakete given that s/he is clearly not 1500 years old at least, that's not what the developers are hinting at...

Edited by Alphonetic

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I wonder if there is any gameplay penalty for transforming into a dragon this time (like transformation gauge or something). Considering that both Kamui's weapons seem to have infinite durability (or at least that's what most people've been assuming so far), why do we even need the sword when we can transform into a freaking dragon all the time?

Hell, the gameplay image even suggested that whoever's doing that run used the stone more often than the sword.

Edited by Ryo

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I wonder if there is any gameplay penalty for transforming into a dragon this time (like transformation gauge or something). Considering that both Kamui's weapons seem to have infinite durability (or at least that's what most people's been assuming so far), why do we even need the sword when we can transform into a freaking dragon all the time?

If this is the case, a transformation gauge does sound like an interesting mechanic to work in the game, especially given how others commented that Kamui may not be entirely comfortable with the transformation, as well as her/his inability to maintain proper control of the dragon form.

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Honestly, it's mostly just the longevity that has me convinced s/he isn't. Maybe something leaning more towards the concept of a mix between manaketes and taguels, but not a full-blooded manakete given that s/he is clearly not 1500 years old at least, that's not what the developers are hinting at...

Manakete longevity has always been pretty inconsistent anyways, especially when half-manaketes are thrown in. They could probably get away with saying Kamui's half-manakete half-human, not sure why they'd throw in taguels.

Incidentally, the "taguel/manakete mix" is basically dragon laguz, used in FE9 and 10.

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I wonder if there is any gameplay penalty for transforming into a dragon this time (like transformation gauge or something). Considering that both Kamui's weapons seem to have infinite durability (or at least that's what most people've been assuming so far), why do we even need the sword when we can transform into a freaking dragon all the time?

Hell, the gameplay image even suggested that whoever's doing that run used the stone more often than the sword.

It'd be neat if using it too often leads to a "bad end" of sorts, but that's more of a story related consequence than gameplay.

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Kamui can be this world's version of a manakete. Elibe reinterpreted what manaketes looked like with Fae and her feather dragon transformation. This second example is more opinionated, but I think Myrrh looks different from Archanea manaketes.

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Nowhere has it been stated that If takes place in Marth's world, or any other past FE World. Any of us using past lore to limit what can happen in IF is silly.

And the aging is no issue. Morgan looks the same regardless of having a manakete mother.

Edited by Mayus

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Honestly, it's mostly just the longevity that has me convinced s/he isn't. Maybe something leaning more towards the concept of a mix between manaketes and taguels, but not a full-blooded manakete given that s/he is clearly not 1500 years old at least, that's not what the developers are hinting at...

When it comes to halflings, the devs do whatever they want, I think, Nils looks much younger than Ninian, despite them probably being only something like 5 years apart in age at the most. And Nah is only... 16 ish? And already looks older than Nils, and Nils is closer to 1000 years old(he's probably closer to something like 950).

Morgan shouldn't be looked at at all, in terms of apperance, as he/she doesn't have an custom portraits for manakete/taguel anywaay.

Kamui can be this world's version of a manakete. Elibe reinterpreted what manaketes looked like with Fae and her feather dragon transformation. This second example is more opinionated, but I think Myrrh looks different from Archanea manaketes.

Yes, that's what I think too...

...But both Myrrh and Fae were still called Manakete despite different universes, though in FE8 'manakete' is an insult for some reason. (my entire point is, really, multipule universes have manakete.)

(and myrrh is 1200, and she looks younger than Nowi, haha.)

Edited by L95

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Where are you getting this "Kamui is obviously not a manakete" viewpoint from!?

Like really?

As others said, Kamui being a manakete is all but confirmed at this point. Not sure how being able to use dragonstones, something that is explicitly used by Manaketes in the series makes Kamui "obviously" not a manakete. Not to mention, the pointed ears, Dragon statue in Hoshido and red eyes gives it away. Before you bring up how the other Hoshido siblings not having Kamui's abilities and features, please do know there is such thing as recessive

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If this is the case, a transformation gauge does sound like an interesting mechanic to work in the game, especially given how others commented that Kamui may not be entirely comfortable with the transformation, as well as her/his inability to maintain proper control of the dragon form.

It'd be neat if using it too often leads to a "bad end" of sorts, but that's more of a story related consequence than gameplay.

That does sound pretty neat. I doubt the dragonstone will be superior to the sword in every way without drawbacks, and these would both serve as nice reasons for not relying entirely on the transformation.

I really wonder how his strange powers will come into play in the story. it's most likely the reason he was kidnapped, after all.

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Nowhere has it been stated that If takes place in Marth's world, or any other past FE World. Any of us using past lore to limit what can happen in IF is silly.

And the aging is no issue. Morgan looks the same regardless of having a manakete mother.

Exactly. Besides, even in Elibe we have two half Manaketes (Ninian and Sophia) who appear to be teenagers.

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Manakete longevity has always been pretty inconsistent anyways, especially when half-manaketes are thrown in. They could probably get away with saying Kamui's half-manakete half-human, not sure why they'd throw in taguels.

Incidentally, the "taguel/manakete mix" is basically dragon laguz, used in FE9 and 10.

I was referring to mostly the lack of longevity that taguels have. The half-manakete idea seems to be the case in terms of how the biological siblings do not appear to have any features similar to it (as well as Kamui merely having pointed ears), but I still really doubt that s/he'll be directly tied to manaketes. Laguz, maybe, but not any of the western dragons we've seen, that's for sure (assuming most if not all previous Fire Emblem games have taken place in a fictional land based off of Europe).

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Nowhere has it been stated that If takes place in Marth's world, or any other past FE World. Any of us using past lore to limit what can happen in IF is silly.

And the aging is no issue. Morgan looks the same regardless of having a manakete mother.

This is true. However, since manaketes tend to be Western (or at least, I interpret them as such typically), I feel like this will just be a more Eastern version with a different name, yet similar powers. Also, Morgan was never given a specific timeline unlike the other children, supposedly meaning that s/he could literally pop up at any moment in the future and that version of her/him just happened to look the same as the others (given that those other Morgans did not exist since that one already does).

What traits does Kamui share with Laguz....?

Transformation as well as being of a potentially separate tribe from other shapeshifters. Laguz do tend to be based off of realistic animals, however (aside from dragon-laguz and the multiple giant bird laguz).

Where are you getting this "Kamui is obviously not a manakete" viewpoint from!?

Like really?

As others said, Kamui being a manakete is all but confirmed at this point. Not sure how being able to use dragonstones, something that is explicitly used by Manaketes in the series makes Kamui "obviously" not a manakete. Not to mention, the pointed ears, Dragon statue in Hoshido and red eyes gives it away. Before you bring up how the other Hoshido siblings not having Kamui's abilities and features, please do know there is such thing as recessive

Appearance wise, really. It's more of intuition; though, it's probably just me hoping that they don't do that (or at least don't base it entirely off of the mechanics for manaketes in Awakening, since a sword wielder and a dragon shapeshifter seems like a dangerously OP type of class concept). If Kamui does end up being a manakete, then I would hope they somehow limit her/his ability to transform.

Edited by Tangerine

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Transformation as well as being of a potentially separate tribe from other shapeshifters. Laguz do tend to be based off of realistic animals, however (aside from dragon-laguz and the multiple giant bird laguz).

So... a dragon is a realistic animal...?

Derp.

What do you mean about the transformation, specifically?

Edited by L95

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I see no confirmation that Kamui is NOT a manakete in any way. Plus, not only is Kamui's form Western-based, manaketes have had a variety of forms throughout FE, especially Fae, who looks the most different out of all the manaketes, Kamui included, so a difference in dragon form proves nothing.

Also, it wouldn't be too far-fetched for Kamui being able to wield both dragonstones and swords to NOT be overpowered, since he/she is the lord, and I theorise manaketes usually only get boosts in stats by dragonstones because they aren't wearing gear like the other classes, but rather their preferred outfits, which aren't as protective. Thus, Kamui may only get no stat boosts from using a dragonstone.

(By the way, please don't make consecutive posts. Use the edit button.)

Edited by DarkGold777

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This is true. However, since manaketes tend to be Western (or at least, I interpret them as such typically), I feel like this will just be a more Eastern version with a different name, yet similar powers. Also, Morgan was never given a specific timeline unlike the other children, supposedly meaning that s/he could literally pop up at any moment in the future and that version of her/him just happened to look the same as the others (given that those other Morgans did not exist since that one already does).

1. If by ''Western'' you mean ''not serpentine'', then I'll point out that the Ice Dragons, Mage Dragons, Naga, Medeus, and Loptyr were all shown to be or looked serpentine in the Kaga games.

2. Morgan's sibling support always has her siblings talk to her like they were close.

Edited by Mayus

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