Does the amount of fanservice bother you?

[Tryhard]

Wait, what? Your Hoshidan siblings aren't even related to Mikoto? Mother of all cop-outs...

What, you expected anything else? They don't have the balls to actually go through with real incest, so let's spin the "buuuuut you're not really related so it's okay~" stereotype.

To be honest though, for your Hoshidan "siblings" being related to Mikoto, I have no idea.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Tryhard

[Crysta]

I've seen worse.

lol@comparing it to a strip club in GTA

I might start getting creeped out if you can literally start groping characters and shit though.

[Solkia]

I see girls wearing shorts as short as panties with crop tops or tank tops, and nobody bats an eye at them for the most part.

It's extremely commonplace.

Is it commonplace on a battlefield? I like my wyvern rider ladies better with full armor.

I've given up on getting mad at the fanservice, it's here to stay and there's nothing I can do about it. I just want the challenge that was nowhere to be found in Awakening to come back like they said they were going to with Nohr.

[Lynsanity]

The same way that an "optional" intermission scene of Gustav and Zero fucking would take away from my immersion in The Grand Budapest Hotel.

It's there, and it's meant to be digested along with the rest of the game. Claiming that it's optional as some sort of catch-all defense is ridiculous.

Uh, how would that even work? Movies aren't a participatory medium. Video games are. When you play a video game, you create the playing experience. Obviously the developer does too, with what content they include, which parts of it are must-complete, etc. But the whole point of the "it's optional" argument is you're not getting fan-serviced unless that's the gameplay you seek out. It's not part of the main storyline. It's not canon. It's not happening in the middle of SRPG gameplay. It's not an auto-play reward for completing a mission. It's something you, the player, have to choose to interact with.

There's not a comparable feature in other media, so please don't pull some "you can just close your eyes for parts of a movie so they're optional!" BS. The format, the consumption, the intent of the creator are not the same at all. Movies and books are meant to be experienced linearly, and all parts of them are part of the vision. Games are often made more like platforms, with lots of different stuff to do, some less important than others, and that's been going on for like 20 years.

I wouldn't criticize, say, Final Fantasy X because Blitzball was in it. Blitzball was a dumb sidegame I didn't like, so I didn't play it, and in fact I had to look it up just now to even remember what it was called. No, I would criticize that game for annoying characters and stagnant gameplay, which are things you can't avoid if you want to progress through the main game and see what the developers most wanted to express. Skinship and so on is similarly not a big part of FE Fates.

if there was an *optional* mission where your squad committed genocide of the red-haired people in fe, how would you feel about that? pretty bad, right? (ignore how much int. sys. likes red hair on main characters for the moment.)

This is ridiculous and pretty much Godwin's law. Nothing in this game remotely approaches how bad making light of genocide would be. Find a more fitting analogy, like say a beach volleyball minigame, and suddenly this issue seems a bit less severe.

[goodperson707]

^ i would say nice post but my mind is now stuck on Fire emblem beach volleyball, it is glorious, the magic and stones being allowed was a mistake however.

[xcel]

Is it commonplace on a battlefield? I like my wyvern rider ladies better with full armor.

Like Minerva, ready to wreck some faces.

[BlueL]

I guess you're right that IF the gameplay and story are amazing, and themselves merit an excellent game, I can pretty much pretend the other stuff doesn't exist and happily go through my day.

But, I don't have a lot of faith in that, if Awakening is anything to judge by. Awakening had a weak plot, characters went from the good to the very bland/one-dimensional, and the maps were nothing to write home about (obviously these are all my opinion, and I guess you could easily disagree). And it seems as though Fates is focussing on these extra features (many of which I dislike) over the tactics part of the game, which is a shame. Although maybe the story is good, I don't know, I've been pretty much avoiding story spoilers.

Honestly, even if the gameplay and story are just solid, I can ignore the other stuff. Like I said in my post, this content is something you have to go out of your way to access and provides limited, time consuming benefits that can be better spent on the other parts of the game. But I'll admit ignoring the unwanted My Castle features will be easier the better the game is.

Awakening's plot and maps were the worst of any I've played in the series.

I disagree on the characters but I don't really feel like getting into that debate right now because I get very passionate about that. I'll just say that yes there were a lot of characters less well-rounded than past games, but there were also a number of enjoyable characters too. Some people (not referring to you in particular) seem to selectively ignore their non-locker room supports. I understand the criticisms of Awakening characters, and some like Kellam deserve it, but others like Noire get their flaws exaggerated.

You should have more faith because they specifically went out and hired a manga writer because they recognized how bad the story was. Reading the Iwata Asks article assured me the story will at minimum be on par with a good FE story's game. You should read it if you haven't.

Nohr's maps have more varied objectives so at least that game should have improved map designs.

I can't comment on characters as I'm avoiding story spoilers myself and consider character knowledge beyond the bios for revealed characters spoilers.

[NekoKnight]

What, you expected anything else? They don't have the balls to actually go through with real incest, so let's spin the "buuuuut you're not really related so it's okay~" stereotype.

To be honest though, for your Hoshidan "siblings" being related to Mikoto, I have no idea.

I heard that Kamui and his other siblings have different fathers but I thought they still shared a mother (Mikoto), ie half siblings. If they don't share any parentage, then not only did the promotional materials lie but some of the characters did too.

What kind of dialogue will you have with Ryoma? "Yeaaaah, sorry for lying about me being your real brother, leading you to betray your other family but.... now that we got that out of the way, wanna fuck?"

This is a pretty clear cut example of how fan-service (making the Hoshidan siblings not blood related so you can marry them) can fuck over the story.

Edited June 25, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Tribute]

I'm fan, so why would I be mad about them servicing me

[senketsu]

I'm on the fence about the skinship thing but, nobody in most places out side of japan are not used to it, it is a cultural thing(yes it actually happens irl). But I probably won't mind like the rest of it.

[senketsu]

I'm really looking forward to the games(might be because I'm a die hard fan of the series). I may even follow it to hell and back. So happy the series didn't die like it was planning to.

[S_Cero]

Face rubbing and the stripping bothers the fuck out of me. These features would be a deal breaker for me if this was any franchise other than Fire Emblem. With the other fanservicey stuff, I just give an exasperated sigh and move on.

[Wyvern_Lord]

Not bothered by fan service at all, i find it rather funny actually.

[slightly off topic] I see a lot of people complaining that the fan service takes away from the drama of the story which i find rather silly. Comedy or fan service or a quirky tone change can add or alleviate tension in a story, give it more humanity or create a memorable character.

If every story was told 100% straight it would be rather boring.

[Camilla]

I'm really glad that the "no" option has more votes by far.

[BrightBow]

I'm really glad that the "no" option has more votes by far.

Except that this observation is meaningless if you phrase the question so that the people who actually like the feature are grouped together with those who don't care either way.

[Camilla]

Except that this observation is meaningless if you phrase the question so that the people who actually like the feature are grouped together with those who don't care either way.

You don't have to "like" something for it not to bother you, so I would say that the observation is pretty meaningful.

People who don't care are obviously not "bothered" by the features.

[Nanima]

I can tolerate most kinds of fanservice. Sure Camilla made me roll my eyes a little at the way she is presented in the game. it's very clear what her purpose in this game is.

I won't indulge in some of the things they offer me here, but I can live with them.

The only reason I voted yes, was because of the incest.

They went out of their way to have Kamui not being related to the Hoshidans, for the express purpose of making them viable marriage candidates. This ruins the entire point of the Hoshidan campaign and the supposed 'Birthright'

I accepted the Nohr S ranks even if I find them personally unappealing, but the entire Hoshido thing bothers me to no end.

[Topazd]

Why is it so unacceptable to desire a narrative that takes itself at least somewhat seriously? There's a profound difference between well handled sexual themes that feel appropriate within the context of the setting and blatant fanservice that conflicts with the themes of the game. There's a time, place and an audience for everything and fanservice to this large of an extent would be better off somewhere else.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Topazd

[Wyvern_Lord]

Why is it so unacceptable to desire a narrative that takes itself at least somewhat seriously? There's a profound difference between well handled sexual themes that feel appropriate within the context of the setting and blatant fanservice that conflicts with the themes of the game. There's a time, place and an audience for everything and fanservice to this large of an extent would be better off somewhere else.

You can have a serious story and still have lighter elements to it. I don't actually know enough about the story of this game but previous fire emblem games Had somewhat weak stories that took themselves far too seriously.

[Camilla]

Why is it so unacceptable to desire a narrative that takes itself at least somewhat seriously? There's a profound difference between well handled sexual themes that feel appropriate within the context of the setting and blatant fanservice that conflicts with the themes of the game. There's a time, place and an audience for everything and fanservice to this large of an extent would be better off somewhere else.

Just because there is fanservice doesn't mean that the narrative isn't taken seriously. There are plenty of deep and complex stories that are loaded with fanservice as well. Game of Thrones and certain KEY visual novels are some great examples.

I think that it's great that Fire Emblem is becoming more versatile with features that can appeal to all different sorts of crowds.

[Shengar]

The fanservice in itself is not the troubling aspect - I can understand it existing in games such as Hyperdimension Neptunia, the problem with its inclusion in Fire Emblem in particular is that it vaporizes any semblance of a consistent tone. Games like HN and Disgaea have consistent tones - lighthearted and jokey, and so the fanservice in those games don't feel out of place (though I still personally struggle to play the HN game I bought on a sale whim despite this). The interviews with the Fates guys indicate that they want to make this game's story meaningful. What a joke. The decision to include so much fanservice (which include the likes of a pandering lesbian Tharja), along the other horrible choices IS have made (in particular, the decision to split the game at the store, rather than at the player's choice) butchers any possibility of this game having a quality story. Wasn't that the initial hope when this game was announced?

Enjoy the fanservice if you want, but there's no denying that until IS just up and make the straight hentai game they seem to really want, its a significant detraction. Focus on either a "heavy, meaningful story" (ex Fe 4, 5, 9. 10, etc), or a non serious "rub everyone's tits and strip them to their underwear anime" (ex HN, Senran Kagura, etc). Trying to combine the two, like Fates is doing, is laughable.

I agree pretty much jarring inconsistency that IS want to make with this game, but this part is absolute hyperbole, unnecessary, and detract your post from your own argument. It denied people who do enjoy interaction between characters in itself and implied they enjoying it for sexual gratification. You said it yourself:

Please try not to take criticisms of a game personally, it's not intended as such.

It's hard to not take a game criticism personally when one get accused of something that they not do, even when that is not the actual intention.

[BrightBow]

You don't have to "like" something for it not to bother you, so I would say that the observation is pretty meaningful.

People who don't care are obviously not "bothered" by the features.

Oh, I agree with that. If we actually assume that this poll is representative, it would mean that for almost a third of the crowd, the enjoyment of the game is significantly impacted. That's far more then I would have expected, especially coming from a forum full of otakus like us.

Edited June 25, 2015 by BrightBow

[Shengar]

I'm bothered with how the presentation of the fanservice affect the unit cloth design like Camilla. Awakening have stupid design like Nowi but she is a side character and never featured in cutscene. It is more bothersome to me since Camilla exerts an aura of real authority which is real shame due to how I can't take her seriously because of her clothes. Things like incest or underage marriage (please, just please don't use pedophile since that is one hell of a strong word) while I don't agree with them personally, those never really bothers me as long as it is not shoved into my face and not the central thing in the game. But the prospect of the gameplay side like map design, more tinkered difficulty, balanced pair up and stat growth really offsets those fanservice aspect that I hardly think of them at the moment.

[Irysa]

You can have a serious story and still have lighter elements to it. I don't actually know enough about the story of this game but previous fire emblem games Had somewhat weak stories that took themselves far too seriously.

You cannot have a geninue story if the characters within that story lack basic human qualities and agency. Fanservice of this nature reduces those aspects, because it becomes blatantly apparent that all the characters exist for the player. Their ultimate role and purpose is to satisfy aesthetic preferences, and everything else is secondary. Obviously, many fictional works (especially games) do this to a degree, but much of the immersive qualities of any form of media exist in spite of that, not because of it. Awakening was also fairly obvious about it, with much of it's premise being to make sure that "there's something for everyone!" when it comes to character personalities, but Fates is going to new lows in this regard.

As BrightBow has so eloquently put it before, these characters are pretty much just "pets" or "playthings" for the player to enjoy as they please. They find the ones they think are funny, cute, sexy, or whatever, endearing in various manners, and then one sidedly get to do with them as they like, even going so far as groping them for reactions, and this extends to pretty much the whole playable cast. And the most frustrating part is that you're rigged to succeed in this respect, since the game is full of blatant hero worship. Characters love and respect the player and his or her Avatar because that's the main thing they exist to do.This is not wrong on principle, because these characters are just data, and they don't have rights or sentience. But it makes it very difficult, if not impossible for many people, to take to heart their concerns and actions as human beings, fictional or not. Say what you will about the general quality of writing earlier in the series, but whilst it was far from being peak literature, we were moving steadily towards characters each having their own identity and purposes, their own stories and themes. Gag characters existed, but were in a tiny minority of a large cast.

I came to admire and respect characters in earlier titles beacuse of their attitudes to life, their personalities, and their actions within the context of the narrative. I don't feel drawn towards these exaggerated caricatures that are so easily summed up in an image and description that people already know who they want to fuck and fondle before they even play the damn game, because they don't come off as humans. There is no room within a game for both subservient hero worship/pandering and believable characters with agency. And I'm not sorry that I want to experience media that strives for the latter.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Irysa

[Fuzzlekins]

As a person who reads a lot of eroge for the plot (I'm actually serious here), I'm not at all bothered in the slightest. If it's possible to tell a decently written and and engaging story in a game with (hilariously terrible) ero scenes like in F/SN, then I think Fates' fanservice is perfectly fine. I'm not saying it's free from criticism, but for me personally I'm perfectly content with how this game is.