Kibayashi doesn't want to claim credit for FE Fates' story

[Kirokan]

so just what is so 'bad' about the Fates story anyway?

Just a few flaws here and there, there were a couple of other threads talking about it.

My bad Kirokan, I meant a translation of the tweet, not the story of the Fates. I am trying to spoil myself as little as possible about the story.

VincentASM did make the meaning of the tweet clear enough though.

Thanks to both of you!

Ah, okay! Sorry about that, hopefully you saved yourself from any spoilers. : )

The main complaint about the Nohr story is that Kamui let's peope like Gunz and McBeth run all over him during most of it, just following orders and without rebelling when he's overruled

like when he wanted to spare rebels but Gunz ordered them to be executed... and that specific scenario actually happens several times. Although, he returns to Nohr under heavy suspicions, so I don't think it's that odd. Although I guess it's a very different attitude from the usual protagonists who would be much more active and decisive.

The Hoshido invasion also only actually starts near the ending, with most of the story focusing just on Nohr's internal problems and Hoshido backed rebellions.

Meanwhile, Nohr Kamui himself is this traditional idealistic protagonist that attempts that attempts to minimize casualties and such. So, he's not even a "darker" character either in spite of his unorthodox choice compared to other FE protagonists.

Indeed, these are the main complaints, along with a few missing things to explain some other characters in there that never really gets touched upon.

perhaps Nohr's story will appear better after localization?

Hmm, I wouldn't be surprised if the English localisation tweaked a few things.

It's already hard to match up Awakening's English and Japanese scripts even though the basic story is the same. Besides, most people seemed to like the English Awakening script, so I'd wager they'll do a similar amount of rewriting with Fates.

Plus, the localisers have a subtle history of changing things, usually for the better. Like changing the way...

[spoiler=Tellius saga spoilers]the Black Knight survived to appear in Radiant Dawn.

Or how the Blood Pact works. Although both versions of the Blood Pact are equally confusing for me : P

I think that while they can make tweaks to fix things like that, I am not sure if they can really change the overall story, unless they tweak so many little things that the overall story changes, you know? But then you wonder if changing the original meaning of the game is the aim of the localization in the first place...

It may make it better explained (which would be welcomed), but won't save the fundamental flaws that have been pointed out.

Of course, I cannot emphasize enough how it is purely a matter of opinion. You may like the story!

[Sky Soldier]

Hmm, I wouldn't be surprised if the English localisation tweaked a few things.

It's already hard to match up Awakening's English and Japanese scripts even though the basic story is the same. Besides, most people seemed to like the English Awakening script, so I'd wager they'll do a similar amount of rewriting with Fates.

Plus, the localisers have a subtle history of changing things, usually for the better.

This.

The Nohr story is not bad. It's just different from what we thought it was going to be. The main issue that Thane and others pointed out is that it is hard to sympathize with the actions of the main character throughout the Nohr path, particularly why he doesn't rebel against Garon, Macbeth/Iago and Ganz as often as people think he should. There are many reasons why he doesn't, but they are not emphasized enough in the Japanese version where (culturally) the fact that they are his superiors is enough to delay an outright rebellion until

Ryouma's death and the close proximity to the throne of Hoshido

completely opens the floodgates. These reasons can be brought out more (and I expect, will be brought out more) in the localization.

For instance,

the fact that Kamui and the siblings are pretty much in an emotionally abusive relationship with Garon (as has been stated elsewhere, it draws eerie parallels with the common situation of "well, why don't you abused people just help yourself stop getting abused?"). Or, they could play up the typical Nuremberg dilemma of either following orders that you know are wrong or getting you or your family killed. Finally, what I really hope that they do is [spoiler=PRETTY BIG SPOILERS HERE!!]put an increased emphasis on Anankos/Hydra (back) in. It is one thing to disobey your father and king. It is quite another to disobey your country's god who could presumably do crazy things to your heart and soul. I also hope they do this since it would also explain why possessed Takumi suddenly shows up at the end to be the final boss. "If you disobey me, you suffer the curse of Anankos!" "Well, screw you, Daddy! Take that! Ahah! See, there wasn't a curse after-" *Kamui shot dead*

Edited July 4, 2015 by Sky Soldier

[VincentASM]

Wait, how'd it go in the original versions?

Which bit?

I'll explain both ^^

In the Japanese version, during the last fight in Path of Radiance, the Black Knight's Warp Powder malfunctioned, so his armour and spirit were there, but not his body. Hence why he was weaker in the battle and why he survived the collapsing castle.

This vaguely makes sense since the Warp Powder is still experimental, but some people thought it was a cop out.

Of course, in the English version, they didn't explain anything, beyond the Black Knight "letting Ike win". Which is one of those rare cases when the real explanation sucks and you're better off using your imagination XD

For the Blood Pact, I kinda forgot how it goes... In the Japanese version, even though Naesala managed to retrieve Kilvas's Blood Pact in the end, the Blood Pact's effect over Kilvas isn't really gone, since the original Kilvas pact-maker died beyond the scope of the pact.

It's suggested that the pact won't kill any Kilvas citizens anymore, but somebody could still abuse the pact potentially. I think IS were either paving way for a future conflict involving Kilvas or just didn't know how to tie together loose ends.

In the English version, it's simply a happy ending for Kilvas.

Oh and I'm not 100% sure, but I think Micaiah inherits the Daein Blood Pact mark after Pelleas dies in the Japanese version and not in the English version. I know it's in the Japanese version though.

Actually, I'll look up the script again...

[Loki Laufeyson]

perhaps Nohr's story will appear better after localization?

I hope so, and i think the issue with Nohr's story could have been solved with dialogue trees, but it looks like IS wasnt ready for that?

Just so you guys know, what he's talking about is really common procedure when it comes to writing scripts in any form of media. Rarely (if ever), the head writer deserves full credit for what ends up in the finished product. I'm pretty sure this is what he means in his Twitter, that the script went through so many drafts and rewrites by the IS staff that they deserve credit for the story as well. At no point he seems to be disowning the story.

To name some examples, the DVD commentaries of The Simpsons reveal that in some episodes, about 5% of the finished product really belongs to the credited writer.

Arr. The team of Game of Thrones has the same thing going on when the author of the series is involved. He was in on the show's writing team but even his episodes get put under the knife.

[NeonZ]

I think they could actually change some of the "Kamui orders to spare people, but is overuled" scenes. Most are basically dialogue only or just show the beginning, so they could change the dialogue in a way that makes it seem like Kamui actually gets them to stop afterwards, rather than just resigning himself.That could make him seem much more proactive and his actions more effective in changing Nohr, which seem to be the main complaint about his character in the Nohr route.

Edited July 4, 2015 by NeonZ

[The DanMan]

Well, this is interesting. Do I want to think that he's subtly disowning the story? Yes.

In actuality does he probably mean anything like that? Nope.

Yes, I know that after a bunch of past crap we're iratible, but seriously? Couldn't we have waited for somebody to verify that "translation" before jumping all over things?

[Seifus]

Yes, I know that after a bunch of past crap we're iratible, but seriously? Couldn't we have waited for somebody to verify that "translation" before jumping all over things?

If there's something that I have learned in my travels on the internet is take everything with a grain of salt until its veracity is verified.

[Kirokan]

Even though Vincent already summarized it and such, here is the full translation to avoid any possible confusion:

"Fire Emblem Fates is now ranked number one best-seller on Amazon[co.jp]. However, there may be a slight misunderstanding. Though I wrote about 500 pages between all three versions, it was just a draft. Since the final scenario was [the result of being] passed through various staff members, I just want to let it be known that they too [had a role in this]."

[Loki Laufeyson]

Even though Vincent already summarized it and such, here is the full translation to avoid any possible confusion:

"Fire Emblem Fates is now ranked number one best-seller on Amazon[co.jp]. However, there may be a slight misunderstanding. Though I wrote about 500 pages between all three versions, it was just a draft. Since the final scenario was [the result of being] passed through various staff members, I just want to let it be known that they too [had a role in this]."

Cheers! Thanks for that, Kirokan.

[Titamon]

Even though Vincent already summarized it and such, here is the full translation to avoid any possible confusion:

"Fire Emblem Fates is now ranked number one best-seller on Amazon[co.jp]. However, there may be a slight misunderstanding. Though I wrote about 500 pages between all three versions, it was just a draft. Since the final scenario was [the result of being] passed through various staff members, I just want to let it be known that they too [had a role in this]."

Well that wasn't as bad as I thought it was. XD

[Tribute]

Man, I need to hang out around places during the japanese only period more often.

mistranslations sure make for good drama

[Mighty Kamina]

Wooow, so many people jumped the gun on this. It's like everybody wants to think the worst possible outcome is always the truth.

[nordopolica]

The story wasn't that bad y'all.... I liked it, though there are parts that were iffy. Just that I think people were expecting too much of it and that was its downfall. Regardless the game is so far a success so I don't see why you would want to "disown" it. I think the story hate is overblown, to be honest, but that's just me.

[Anacybele]

500 pages? Wow. I can see why IS made some alterations, how were they going to fit all of that in even three different paths of a 3DS game? If the alterations made the story worse though, that still rather sucks...

[Ledah*]

Lol people should be ashamed to spread misinformation like that

[goodperson707]

^ but it was on the internet, it must have been true!

Sigh....

[ErrantDShepherd]

Of all the forum drama of the past few weeks... Nice to see something that's just amusingly easily solved through translation. XD

Now about the quality of the story itself...much as I appreciate the insight/information some people have provided about the story so far, I am honestly going to reserve my judgement on the story for now until I have experienced it myself in some form.

...as we can see from this thread first impressions/second hand translations should always be taken with a grain of salt. ;p

[Kanethedragon]

Well this is interesting. Imo though I feel like Fates' story had much better potential that didn't get used. If the drafts were actually better I wouldn't be surprised for not wanting to take most of the credit for an altered work of yours. Anyways, regardless, it is what it is. At the very least the story is better than Awakening's to some degree, and this isn't the first time where something headlined by one person is changed by another. Of most recent memory for me of a similar situation was with Aldnoah Zero, and that show just ended up becoming an atrocity by the end of S2. Things were good while Urobuchi helmed the first 3 eps and they still weren't too bad after he left for S1, even early S2, despite being questionable in some decisions, was still relatively good until the end where the entire anime just became one huge joke. Thankfully that didn't happen here with Fates, but as far as it seems, I feel like some of it's quality was likely lost from the drafts, which is a shame imo.

[Faye]

Jeez, who is trying to turn Serenes into Tumblr.com for goodness sake? People SERIOUSLY need to check their goddamn facts instead of flipping out and creating drama and bad feelings for no good reason.

[BlueL]

This is off topic but didn't sticker star had a good idea from start and then Myamotto stated it would just be a "GC port" so they had to alter everything with "unique" gimmicks and in early development, he also encouraged the developers to keep the story to a "minimum" kinda like how IS took some of Kibayashis foundation but made it into something that they would find suitable for FE standards just wondering.

Sticker Star doesn't exist, there could never be such a bad Paper Mario game.

Some info got out which folks misinterpreted as the director saying Ufotable was going to creat a single movie instead of a series of films. Heaven's Feel is a long storyline so people started thinking it would end up like the Deen film for Unlimited Blade Works but recent information makes it sounds like this wont be the case because the director said he couldnt do the story justice that way. He even talked about doing a six hour film apprently but that was just an idea. Its too early for anything to be set in stone but the salt levels are rising already.

I'd watch a 6 hour Fate/ Stay Night movie in one sitting if it was anything like UBW . Especially those last 2 episodes...

They were expecting Tactics Ogre LUCT.

Now doubt they'll ends up disappointed.

I'm waiting to play the game (and seeing the same people tearing the story now explain us in details why the Japanese version was perfect and why all the characters sucks compared to the original) to get my own opinion about it, but it's sad that we start completely tearing it apart where it's out for less than three weeks.

I may remember wrongly, but even with Awakening we waited a litle longer before completely denigrating it.

I've been avoiding spoiler threads so my opinion might be off, but from the comments I've seen in spoiler free threads I have been disappointed by the rampant complaining about the game. I'm sure it has it's flaws but I'd love to hear people say what they liked about it instead of long rants on what they didn't like.

[SapphireFalconWing]

Sticker Star doesn't exist, there could never be such a bad Paper Mario game.

I'd watch a 6 hour Fate/ Stay Night movie in one sitting if it was anything like UBW . Especially those last 2 episodes...

I've been avoiding spoiler threads so my opinion might be off, but from the comments I've seen in spoiler free threads I have been disappointed by the rampant complaining about the game. I'm sure it has it's flaws but I'd love to hear people say what they liked about it instead of long rants on what they didn't like.

like it or not it does

[xaszatm]

This is off topic but didn't sticker star had a good idea from start and then Myamotto stated it would just be a "GC port" so they had to alter everything with "unique" gimmicks and in early development, he also encouraged the developers to keep the story to a "minimum" kinda like how IS took some of Kibayashis foundation but made it into something that they would find suitable for FE standards just wondering.

Not entirely. Miyamoto did say he felt like Sticker Star was turning into Thousand Year Door 2, but the group behind it actually decided to do a Club Nintendo poll on it with the choice being to keep the style or change it entirely. Less then 1% wanted the old version. THAT is what led to Sticker Star. So yeah, Club Nintendo is very much to blame for that one.

[BlueL]

Deleted

Edited July 6, 2015 by BlueL

[Jave]

Not entirely. Miyamoto did say he felt like Sticker Star was turning into Thousand Year Door 2, but the group behind it actually decided to do a Club Nintendo poll on it with the choice being to keep the style or change it entirely. Less then 1% wanted the old version. THAT is what led to Sticker Star. So yeah, Club Nintendo is very much to blame for that one.

That's not entirely true either. The reason Sticker Star had little to no story was because, in the Club Nintendo surveys for Super Paper Mario, the biggest complain was that the game was too talky.

[shadowofchaos]

Can a mod like... edit it to have like a label that the topic title isn't or something?

It feels like some of the posts on page 4 or 5 were just from reading the topic title and not reading the entirety of the original thread starter which has corrections.