My life is officially...

[Borz]

Balcerzak's thread may as well be renamed "Debate pointers" because Serious Discussion isn't purely about debates nor are there any additional "rules" posted in there. Serious Discussion is actually about the following:

Where is that quote from? Because it's not in the forum sticky. In the forum sticky, he says:

"This subforum exists for reasoned and logical discourse over some of the heavy, more "serious" topics of our times. That said, extended and mature discussion on almost any subject can conceivably fit in, provided it's well-presented and well-maintained."

According to this, Serious Discussion is only for discussions, so all your nonsense about this being the wrong place is not true. The person who is in the wrong place is the OP.

Even if it were not only for discussions, the rules still apply. Including:

- This subforum is no substitute for trained medical professionals. For any serious personal medical or psychological issues there are better places to get advice than from strangers on the internet. Get in touch with your primary care provider if you have one, or a relevant hotline (Suicide Prevention, Domestic Abuse, Substance Abuse, etc.) if you do not.

Coulda fooled me. I've never heard of anyone going into a thread about a tragedy and basically writing an entire essay on why her way of mourning was flawed.

Where did I say her "way of mourning" was flawed? I took issue with the things she and others in this thread have said about suicide.

You are also trivializing her emotions to a pretty considerable degree

By taking issue with what she said about suicide? Someone's trauma does not validate their statements.

and you are also stating that you don't care that you are acting as the villain or the bad guy which makes your post seem 10000x worse.

No. I don't care if I am perceived as the bad guy. There's a difference. Nobody here is a "bad guy" as far as I'm concerned.

Ah yes, but you see. We know your character just from your post.

You're a 14 year old who has no heart and thinks he's mentally superior to everyone and doesn't care about stomping on peoples tragedies because he has never experienced anything like this and thinks he has "knowledge" to.

So get the fuck out.

It's absolutely ridiculous how you can call me heartless based on a post where I talk about people's experience with suicidal thoughts.

I have never experienced someone close to me, physically or emotionally, committing suicide. I didn't talk about that, though, did I? I talked about suicidal thoughts, which I have experienced. It's just disheartening that you can see yourself as being in the right when you're presuming all these things about me simply because I made a post that didn't acknowledge the tragedy. I did not stomp on it.

[Nanami Touko]

My condolences, Ana. You're not my favorite person, but that doesn't mean you deserved this; no one does. I hope you can manage to find a way to come to terms with this, at least a little bit.

[Sentacotus]

I am going to be the horrible, evil person who commits forum social suicide by strongly, strongly disagreeing with something someone has said while they were going through a traumatic experience without coating it in heaps of sugar.

Fine fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion but it doesn't mean we have to agree with what you are saying.

You say not to make assumptions about your character yet you did the same exact thing about everyone else posting here assuming we are all just insenstive and ignorant of what people with suicidal thoughts or intentions are going through. Nevermind that some of us have had to deal with that first hand and had to seek out help. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. People react to stuff differently however, I think we can all agree that doing nothing but mulling over ones own depression and pain is not healthy for anyone in the long term.

And then you try to compare people with suicidal intentions to what people in concentration camps may or may not have been even thinking going through things like the holocaust. Not only is it wrong for us to say what may or may not have been going through the minds of those unfortunate enough to be in concentration camps its even more wrong for us to generalize everyone with suicidal thoughts or intents.

You say that serious disscussion is not a personal soapbox but on the same hand not every topic has to be about a political tirade or a debate about the morality of one's actions. Obviously this was a serious incident that one of the members of the community had to go through and they are just trying to reach out for support no matter how small.

Edited August 16, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Anacybele]

Borz, you had suicidal thoughts? Well, look you're alive, and you don't have those thoughts anymore, do you? This is exactly what I WAS SAYING. You have survived and got through that. It should make you a stronger person.

[Water Mage]

Ana, I forgot to mention it before, but I think you should seek your parents, mostly because they are also pain.

No parent should bury their children, so the pain they must feeling is unimaginable. I know people who had to see their children die and trust me, it was horrible.

Right now, your parents must think they are horrible parents, since one their children commited suicide.

This is something I witnessed personally.

However by having their other child help them, they will see that that is not the case, and it will you help as well Ana, after all, pain shared is pain halved.

Again, I'm sorry if I said something that offends you.

And try not let Borz get to you, while I think he's completely wrong for saying such things, I don't think he had malicious intentions.

Just focus on recovering for now okay?

I'll repeat, things will get better, trust me on that. It may sound cliché, but no matter what there always hope left, ALWAYS, so don't ever think your life is over.

Beyond this pain you find your happiness again, I'm sure of it.

Man, I must sound so corny right now...

Edited August 16, 2015 by Water Mage

[RidellCrimea]

If you're so eager to discuss about the matter and want your opinion to be heard, why not just make a separate thread? By posting here, you're only making the situation worse for the OP and receive negative feedbacks in return.

[Azz]

Ana, I forgot to mention it before, but I think you should seek your parents, mostly because they are also pain.

No parent should bury their children, so the pain they must feeling is unimaginable. I know people who had to see their children die and trust me, it was horrible.

Right now, your parents must think they are horrible parents, since one their children commited suicide.

This is something I witnessed personally.

However by having their other child help them, they will see that that is not the case, and it will you help as well Ana, after all, pain shared is pain halved.

Again, I'm sorry if I said something that offends you.

And try not let Borz get to you, while I think he's completely wrong for saying such things, I don't think he had malicious intentions.

Just focus on recovering for now okay?

I'll repeat, things will get better, trust me on that. It may sound cliché, but no matter what there always hope left, ALWAYS, so don't ever think your life is over.

Beyond this pain you find your happiness again, I'm sure of it.

Man, I must sound so corny right now...

You don't in the slightest.In fact what you said was very heart warming.

Any ways, I agree with Water Mage.While a professional would be someone to consider, right now I think you should go to your parents Ana and just be with them.To not only comfort yourself but them also.

[Lord Raven]

Where is that quote from? Because it's not in the forum sticky. In the forum sticky, he says:

The forum sticky are more guidelines than rules, and Balcerzak agreed with me when I said that.

Where did I say her "way of mourning" was flawed? I took issue with the things she and others in this thread have said about suicide.

This is how some people mourn and deal with suicide. This was also posted presumably not long after the incident.

By taking issue with what she said about suicide? Someone's trauma does not validate their statements.

I'm not asking you to validate her statements. I'm asking you to show sympathy instead of trying to prove her wrong. Right now you come off as a know-it-all 14 year old who is just trying to win a debate instead of make a point. You invoked Godwin's Law for Christ's sake.

No. I don't care if I am perceived as the bad guy. There's a difference. Nobody here is a "bad guy" as far as I'm concerned.

You missed my point. There's no "difference." I'm stating that this lack of care is what makes your post a lot worse, because it gives credence to the insensitivity of your point.

It's absolutely ridiculous how you can call me heartless based on a post where I talk about people's experience with suicidal thoughts.

I have never experienced someone close to me, physically or emotionally, committing suicide. I didn't talk about that, though, did I? I talked about suicidal thoughts, which I have experienced. It's just disheartening that you can see yourself as being in the right when you're presuming all these things about me simply because I made a post that didn't acknowledge the tragedy. I did not stomp on it.

While I believe Jedi's post is very extreme, it is more clear to me that you don't care that much. You seem to be aware why what you posted is not a good thing to post, you just don't seem to care. This thread's about someone reaching out for support, it's not supposed to be an anti-suicide commercial.

The key word here - in all honesty - is seem. I really don't know you at all, so I'm not one to make this claim that you are uncaring.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Irony]

My Condolences to you and your family, this must be devastating for you. I'm going to say- Don't bottle your feelings up. If you do so, it's going to make things worse for yourself. Talk to your family, neighbours and friends (so that you can comfort them and they can comfort you) , as well as seeking professional support (if you need to).

[Anacybele]

Ana, I forgot to mention it before, but I think you should seek your parents, mostly because they are also pain.

No parent should bury their children, so the pain they must feeling is unimaginable. I know people who had to see their children die and trust me, it was horrible.

Right now, your parents must think they are horrible parents, since one their children commited suicide.

This is something I witnessed personally.

However by having their other child help them, they will see that that is not the case, and it will you help as well Ana, after all, pain shared is pain halved.

Again, I'm sorry if I said something that offends you.

And try not let Borz get to you, while I think he's completely wrong for saying such things, I don't think he had malicious intentions.

Just focus on recovering for now okay?

I'll repeat, things will get better, trust me on that. It may sound cliché, but no matter what there always hope left, ALWAYS, so don't ever think your life is over.

Beyond this pain you find your happiness again, I'm sure of it.

Man, I must sound so corny right now...

Nooo, you're not being corny at all. This is an awesome post. Thanks so much. I've been with my parents, and I won't be leaving them anytime soon.

I just watched the movie Shark Tale. What great timing that was. If you guys have seen it, you might remember that Lenny's brother dies during the story. And Lenny was able to heal... I can too, then. And I feel better already.

[Water Mage]

Nooo, you're not being corny at all. This is an awesome post. Thanks so much. I've been with my parents, and I won't be leaving them anytime soon.

I just watched the movie Shark Tale. What great timing that was. If you guys have seen it, you might remember that Lenny's brother dies during the story. And Lenny was able to heal... I can too, then. And I feel better already.

Glad I could help Ana, and thanks for saying my words were heartwarming Azz01.

And if you don't mind, let this hopeless optimist give you one last piece of advice:

Live.

Live for him.

Live the life he couldn't live.

Live the life he believed he couldn't live.

Make him your strength.

Make his memory something that makes you stronger.

Make his memory something that will help you when things are tough.

Make his memory something that makes you smile when you are sad.

Simply put, make your memories of him something that will always put a smile on your face, not tears, and that the happiness that his life gave you outweights the sadness his death gave you.

That's the best way to honor his memory.

Show to him that the world is wonderful place, that no matter what happens, things can get better, even if you are a victim of a Nazi concentration camp, things will get better.

Show to him that your life is wonderful, and that he is one the reasons that your life is wonderful, and that his very existence is something that gave you hapiness.

That will give him peace, and when you meet again, and I'm sure you will, you have nothing but good things to share with him.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Water Mage

[Anacybele]

Hey, it's good to be optimistic. :)

So thanks a lot, that whole post is amazing and totally right.

[blah the Prussian]

Glad I could help Ana, and thanks for saying my words were heartwarming Azz01.

And if you don't mind, let this hopeless optimist give you one last piece of advice:

Live.

Live for him.

Live the life he couldn't live.

Live the life he believed he couldn't live.

Make him your strength.

Make his memory something that makes you stronger.

Make his memory something that will help you when things are tough.

Make his memory something that makes you smile when you are sad.

Simply put, make your memories of him something that will always put a smile on your face, not tears.

That's the best way to honor his memory.

Show to him that the world is wonderful place, that no matter what happens, things can get better, even if you are a victim of a Nazi concentration camp, things will get better.

Show to him that your life is wonderful, and that he is one the reasons that your life is wonderful, and that his very existence is something that gave you hapiness.

That will give him peace, and when you meet again, and I'm sure you will, you have nothing but good things to share with him.

While the sentiment here is nice, I can't agree. In my mind, the best way to honor your brother is to remember him like he was, the good and the bad. The thing is, it wont matter how you remember him, so long as you remember him as your brother.

[Water Mage]

While the sentiment here is nice, I can't agree. In my mind, the best way to honor your brother is to remember him like he was, the good and the bad. The thing is, it wont matter how you remember him, so long as you remember him as your brother.

That's exactly what I'm trying say, that she should remember both good and the bad memories, and remember that no matter what happened, even they fought, even if he annoyed her, the very fact that he was her brother made her happy.

[blah the Prussian]

That's exactly what I'm trying say, that she should remember both good and the bad memories, and remember that no matter what happened, even they fought, even if he annoyed her, the very fact that he was her brother made her happy.

Ah, sorry. Misunderstanding then.

[ClevelandSteve]

I'm so sorry, Ana. As someone who's lost close family before, I'll try to offer some advice. Not sure how much of this will be applicable, since every situation is different, and a lot of this is far easier said than done, but:

1. Remember: this was not your fault. Don't get caught up thinking about what you could've done differently, it will only make you feel worse. Like I said, much easier said than done. Hell, my dad was a 65-year-old man with very poor health habits who died of a heart attack, and I still frequently find myself thinking about how maybe I could've saved his life.

2. See a therapist as soon as possible. Don't hold off on this one, as having a professional to help you through this is absolutely essential. A large part of the reason I lost my financial aid and had to leave college in my freshman year was that I didn't know how to deal with the grief of losing my mother. I might've finished my education if I sought out one of the on-campus grief counselors instead of losing myself in dumb internet videos and ignoring my studies.

3. At the same time, talk with your family. You're all grieving, so being there for each other is important. Both times when one of my parents died, I spent a week at my sister's house (different houses, in different states, but same situation). This helped me sort of get my bearings (though in both cases not perfectly).

4. This is more of a warning than advice: once you're able to sleep again, you're probably going to have dreams about your brother. A lot. And waking up and realizing that they were just dreams and he's still gone will make you feel downright terrible. That's one of the places where having a support network of friends, family, and at least one professional psychologist is most important.

I think you're already handling this better than I did when either of my parents died. Just remember to stay on the right path. Hope my advice helps, even a little.

[Thor Odinson]

God, this is terrible to have happened. I wish the best to you and your family and my sincerest condolences.

[Anacybele]

I'm so sorry, Ana. As someone who's lost close family before, I'll try to offer some advice. Not sure how much of this will be applicable, since every situation is different, and a lot of this is far easier said than done, but:

1. Remember: this was not your fault. Don't get caught up thinking about what you could've done differently, it will only make you feel worse. Like I said, much easier said than done. Hell, my dad was a 65-year-old man with very poor health habits who died of a heart attack, and I still frequently find myself thinking about how maybe I could've saved his life.

2. See a therapist as soon as possible. Don't hold off on this one, as having a professional to help you through this is absolutely essential. A large part of the reason I lost my financial aid and had to leave college in my freshman year was that I didn't know how to deal with the grief of losing my mother. I might've finished my education if I sought out one of the on-campus grief counselors instead of losing myself in dumb internet videos and ignoring my studies.

3. At the same time, talk with your family. You're all grieving, so being there for each other is important. Both times when one of my parents died, I spent a week at my sister's house (different houses, in different states, but same situation). This helped me sort of get my bearings (though in both cases not perfectly).

4. This is more of a warning than advice: once you're able to sleep again, you're probably going to have dreams about your brother. A lot. And waking up and realizing that they were just dreams and he's still gone will make you feel downright terrible. That's one of the places where having a support network of friends, family, and at least one professional psychologist is most important.

I think you're already handling this better than I did when either of my parents died. Just remember to stay on the right path. Hope my advice helps, even a little.

Okay, now that I have my laptop again, I can make some longer replies.

Yeah, you're right about all of that, Steve. I know about the dreams, I had dreams about my grandma after she died, and waking up to find that she was still gone was indeed awful.

I'm sorry about your dad. If you told him that he should get healthier habits and stuff and you really tried to help him, well, that was all you could do, I suppose... I'm sorry about your mom too, it's awful to lose both parents too soon. And yeah, the family is staying together for now, we're not even going back to our house, we can't bear to step inside. I just want all my stuff and to go somewhere else... I don't care where, and neither do my parents.

Yeah, I'm seeking a support group, so I'm definitely going to look for professional help...if that counts.

God, this is terrible to have happened. I wish the best to you and your family and my sincerest condolences.

Thanks, Thor. You were always a cool dude to be around. Especially since you like Ryoma!

[Zerosabers]

Nobody should have to see something that horrible. All I can do is offer my condolences and highly suggest following the advice other people have given. It'll help you a lot.

[Blaze The Great]

Wow...words fail. I've never experienced something like this, though I did lose my cousin in a gun accident. I'm so sorry to hear this, and I hope that you are able to recover, however long that process may be. Just know, that my thoughts and prayers-and I'm sure the thoughts and prayers of many others-go out for you. Again, my condolences, that is terrible.

[FrostyFireMage]

I guess I'm unfairly lucky that I've never had anyone close to me commit suicide or die before their time, so I can't really imagine what you have gone through. I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you'll recover from this tragedy. Seek help from a professional and don't let this destroy your life.

Borz, what are you trying to accomplish here? Being a contrarian twat isn't making you look any smarter or 'realist'.

[Borz]

Borz, you had suicidal thoughts? Well, look you're alive, and you don't have those thoughts anymore, do you? This is exactly what I WAS SAYING. You have survived and got through that. It should make you a stronger person.

I actually still do have the thought of suicide and death in general in the back of my mind, and probably will for a very long time. My wording was misleading.

Fine fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion but it doesn't mean we have to agree with what you are saying.

Most of the replies directed at me were not simple disagreements, they were attacks on my character.

You say not to make assumptions about your character yet you did the same exact thing about everyone else posting here assuming we are all just insenstive and ignorant of what people with suicidal thoughts or intentions are going through

When? I re-read what I wrote, and I don't see any assumptions about the people in the thread. The closest I get to that point would be in the segment about "Talk to your loved ones about it!" and those were rhethorical questions at the hypothetical person saying that.

And then you try to compare people with suicidal intentions to what people in concentration camps may or may not have been even thinking going through things like the holocaust. Not only is it wrong for us to say what may or may not have been going through the minds of those unfortunate enough to be in concentration camps its even more wrong for us to generalize everyone with suicidal thoughts or intents.

Lots of people attempted and succeeded in committing suicide in concentration camps during the Holocaust. Why is my comparison illegitimate?

Why is it wrong to make educated guesses? Why is it wrong to use generalizations when you are speaking generally? And when did I generalize people with suicidal thoughts or intents? My argument was that people use generalized, pre-packaged responses when dealing with individuals with suicidal thoughts and intent, treat it like most people treat tech support, except we're dealing with something much more complex - people's lives.

You say that serious disscussion is not a personal soapbox but on the same hand not every topic has to be about a political tirade or a debate about the morality of one's actions. Obviously this was a serious incident that one of the members of the community had to go through and they are just trying to reach out for support no matter how small.

I did not say this, it was written in this subforum's...guidelines, apparently. This is not the place for this type of thing. While I understand Anacybele's judgment, it was incorrect.

If you're so eager to discuss about the matter and want your opinion to be heard, why not just make a separate thread? By posting here, you're only making the situation worse for the OP and receive negative feedbacks in return.

The negative feedback is something that I was aware I would receive, which is the reason behind my first semi-sarcastic statement in my original post. I was aware that people would throw vitriol at me, and that typically discourages me from posting. This time I decided to post anyway because I deemed this too important not to respond to. OP made a mistake in posting this topic here, and I was not disrespectful to her. I just did not acknowledge the tragedy in my post. I had no obligation to. You may think that makes me a bad person, and fine. Hate me. It saddens me that you feel this way, but feel free.

The forum sticky are more guidelines than rules, and Balcerzak agreed with me when I said that.

It says "RULES" right there. Twice.

This is how some people mourn and deal with suicide. This was also posted presumably not long after the incident.

I understand this. However, you answered my question very covertly and way too "open to interpretation"-y. What specifically are you talking about when you say "this"? And again, this was posted in the wrong place. It says rules right there. Even if you say they are only guidelines, how is my interpretation of them flawed?

I'm not asking you to validate her statements. I'm asking you to show sympathy instead of trying to prove her wrong. .

I have sympathy for her loss, but I am not under any obligation to show that sympathy. I have my reasons(if you really want to hear them, ask).

She put herself in a public forum, knowing people will be able to voice their opinions and make arguments against her's. Her agency did not disappear when she was traumatized. She is still responsible for her actions, just like I am.

Right now you come off as a know-it-all 14 year old who is just trying to win a debate

More on that in a bit.

instead of make a point.

I made my point just fine in the OP. Pre-packaged feel-good thought-terminating cliches are insulting to the intelligence of suicidal people. I suppose this is the generalization LordTaco was talking about, now that I've written it again. I won't rewrite that point for transparency's sake.

You invoked Godwin's Law for Christ's sake.

Ah, fantastic. I've wanted to talk about this with someone for a while now, so thank you.

Invoking Godwin's Law is not some sort of logical fallacy. For reference:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"

This is Godwin's Law. I know that:

there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

...but that's incredibly silly. Legitimate comparisons are legitimate comparisons. It does not matter to whom or what the comparison is made. The reason people make analogies involving Nazis so often is because:

1.The Nazis are universally seen as evil, so people make comparisons to the actions of the Nazis to make a moral appeal without establishing the objectivity of morality, and point out hypocrisy.

2. The Third Reich is universally seen as a horrible period in history, so people use the things that happened during it as an example of extreme suffering.

I think these are the two main reasons, but of course there are other, potentially illegitimate ones.

So yeah. My comparison is not illegitimate because it involves Nazis. In fact, in this situation the Nazis could be completely removed from the comparison. Let's replace the Nazi concentration camp with an Ustashen concentration camp. Nothing changes.

You missed my point. There's no "difference." I'm stating that this lack of care is what makes your post a lot worse, because it gives credence to the insensitivity of your point.

I did not miss your point, I made a counter-point, and yes, there is a difference between actually doing something bad and being viewed as doing something bad. Unless you believe in subjective morality or something along those lines, in which case you have no ground to stand on.

it is more clear to me that you don't care that much. You seem to be aware why what you posted is not a good thing to post, you just don't seem to care.

No, I think what I posted was a good thing to post because I've come to the conclusion that suicide is always an option, and sometimes the only answer. I don't care if people disagree that it was a good thing to post because in creating the topic Anacybele accepted that people may say things she does not like as long as they don't break the rules.

This thread's about someone reaching out for support, it's not supposed to be an anti-suicide commercial.

Suicide is NEVER the answer, people. Somewhere, there are people who care. All our neighbors are supporting us right now through this pain. Suicide only causes others pain. DON'T FUCKING DO IT.

How is this not an anti-suicide sentiment? Everything she wrote was not an anti-suicide sentiment, but I was not replying to everything she wrote. And again, she put this in Serious Discussion.

The key word here - in all honesty - is seem. I really don't know you at all, so I'm not one to make this claim that you are uncaring.

See, most of the people who replied to me talk about how what I wrote seems and consequently, how I seem. This is something I call "Death Sentence of the Author"(coined by Youtuber "Harmful Opinions"). It's when you invoke Death of the Author to make up an interpretation of what I said, then getting pissed at me for your interpretation, claiming what I wrote is wrong, typically "harmful". I've stated my intent already, and it was not to disrespect or "stomp" on OP's tragedies. Nowhere in my posts have I done so. Yet you still get angry at me, claiming I'm responsible for your interpretation of what I said and that your interpretation reflects on me somehow. You acknowledged this to some degree in your edit, but others have not.

Severian, I'm sorry for the extremely late reply. I had a lot to write.

I know you mentioned the possibility of someone who has no loved ones or people close to them, but in this case, don't you think that committing suicide regardless of the feelings of those around you can be construed as "self-centered" as well? I'm not necessarily opposed to suicide in every case, but I think it's OK for people to be self-centered to a certain degree. At the same time, it's natural that people have responsibilities for each other. I think the conflict between the individual's responsibility to the family and the family's responsibility to the individual isn't well articulated enough in your post for you to be so committed to your conclusions.

Yeah, I should have used the word selfish instead. I agree-people should put their needs first. This is a pretty complex thing, so I'll leave it at that.

What I don't agree with is that people have automatic positive obligations to their parents. It robs them of their liberty, because the choice to be born is not theirs. Parents, however, have a positive obligation to their children to fulfill their needs until they're self-sufficient, because they brought them into the world. They made a choice and have to take

responsibility for that choice. Bringing a child into the world while not being ready and certain you will be able to fulfill their needs is immoral...I'm getting sidetracked.

Also, finding rare exceptions to the rule (nazi concentration camp) is not really an effective way to deal with this issue. Ana did say "NEVER" but you seem to be acting like just because you thought of a tough case, you've completely demolished arguments against suicide.

If you haven't read the final part of my reply towards Raven, do so. You are using Death Sentence of the Author.

My intention was not to demolish arguments against suicide when I wrote that, my intention was to demolish the feel-good thought-terminating cliche "Suicide is never the answer!". This is pretty obvious because of this:

Would you say that to a person trapped in a Nazi concentration camp? If not, then you draw the line somewhere and the only debate you can have is where to draw it. Ergo, suicide can be the answer.

I acknowledged there is further debate to be had.

All professionals I've worked with for more a substantial period of time (more than one or 2 sessions of some kind with them) actually did talk about the environment around me, especially how I get along with family, friends, etc. They often encourage people to seek out support, but when I've seen others working with professionals in group settings, the professionals are typically cognizant of the fact that the environment may not be germane for the person they are dealing with, and they try to help change that.

That's a valid anecdote I suppose, but my personal experiences are far different, and I've had a considerable number of psychotherapists for a long enough time to come to my conclusion.

The objective way to prove my point would be to talk about the DSM, but that would take a while and I've been writing this post for hours. If you want me to do so, ask and I'll try.

Finally done. Took me 3 hours to write this.

Edit:

Borz, what are you trying to accomplish here? Being a contrarian twat isn't making you look any smarter or 'realist'.

I have already stated my intent in writing my original post and the posts after it. I am not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I think that is pretty obvious considering how much time I've spent on writing my posts. Using the word contrarian as a buzzword will get you nowhere.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Borz

[Integrity]

borz, please stop posting. other posters, please stop responding to borz. this is a one-strike offense.

EDIT: for the record, violating this will be met with suspensions, not warns.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Integrity

[deactivated]

Wow... I thought MY life was going horribly... Im so sorry for your loss... But, you know what they say, after a hurricane comes a rainbow. I hope your life get's better.

[Sunwoo]

Ana, I know you said that you're not a stranger to death in the family, but they're under two very different circumstances and I think the nature of this is going to make its effects longer-lasting. Just remember that it's okay to grieve. We all grieve in very different ways, and if it helps you to post here on SF and talk about it then that's what you should do. It's natural to feel a lot of emotions, sadness or anger or guilt or just surreal, sometimes in the span of seconds and I think you need to grieve in the way that helps you do so. Whatever helps.

All we can do is support you and your family, and to give you all the space you need. I also once again recommend speaking to a professional. We will all lend a ear if you want us to, but I do think that this is a situation that needs to be discussed with someone who is licensed and knows what they are doing.