The Lunatic Club [Fates]

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

From what i know about Ophelia basically it boils down to:

1. Corrin Avatar support her give her a really big tankiness and damage upgrade and stats needed to stroll through the game

2. Odin have a really fucking dumb skillset that make him THE best Sorcerer in Gen 1 on Casual play, The only Vantage on Nohr outside of Corrin is really good. From what i remember the only unit who can have Vantage in Nohr is.... Leo who doesn't come with easy Ophium access and early alvailability. To wit Leo need to reclass into SM and then get Vantage, then pass it into Forrest. Forrest ES also isn't as WTF as Ophelia i guess?

I don't know how Ophelia would deal against triple enfeeble though, but if Enfeeble and maybe freeze is taken off from the map, Ophelia being able to solo 28 isn't out of strecth of imagination considering that she had Calamity Gale to deal with the Ninjas, and the rest of the map should be in ORKO range

[joshcja]

From what i know about Ophelia basically it boils down to:

1. Corrin Avatar support her give her a really big tankiness and damage upgrade and stats needed to stroll through the game

2. Odin have a really fucking dumb skillset that make him THE best Sorcerer in Gen 1 on Casual play, The only Vantage on Nohr outside of Corrin is really good. From what i remember the only unit who can have Vantage in Nohr is.... Leo who doesn't come with easy Ophium access and early alvailability. To wit Leo need to reclass into SM and then get Vantage, then pass it into Forrest. Forrest ES also isn't as WTF as Ophelia i guess?

I don't know how Ophelia would deal against triple enfeeble though, but if Enfeeble and maybe freeze is taken off from the map, Ophelia being able to solo 28 isn't out of strecth of imagination considering that she had Calamity Gale to deal with the Ninjas, and the rest of the map should be in ORKO range

Her damage goes so high she only needs to dodge one enfeeble at a 50% hitrate to keep orkoing everyting on EP.

Shurikenbreaker does a pretty good of shitting on ninja's

The full numbers emblem solo build is like Ophelia@Corin or Elise, vantage/LoD/shurikenbreaker/faire or trample/Any other damage boost, +3/+4 magic statues (depending on parent) @ level 25 @+3 flibberdylibber (its manageable if you just let her solo the entire fucking game and get 101/201 paralouge dips or just take her late and dip dip dip on saved paralouges)

Basically the game caps out at 80ish damage required for orkoing on the mage side and Ophy can be pushed well over 100. (93-96 with this setup when holding Sorc!Corin and mag potted cause I wanted breaker and +4 steel is prohibitively expensive)

Edited April 5, 2016 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

How did you give Shurikenbreaker on her though lol

If you marry MU, its kinda hard. If you marry Felicia, then its possible i think, to get Shurikenbreaker by chapter 13-14 but Felicia wil hurt her defense i guess?

[Vapo]

Tips on Birthright Chapter 11 Lunatic/Classic no-grind? I'm fine for most of the map but at the end when the whole map rushes at me someone ends up dying. Relevant members of my team:

Corrin 13.58 Nohr Princess, secondary Cavalier +Spd -Lck

Silas 13.87 Cavalier

Mozu 13.21 Dread Fighter (yes I'm using Mozu in Lunatic/Classic no-grind. oh boy was getting her to be decent hard)

Oboro 13.18 Spear Fighter

Takumi 12.91 Archer

My non-combat people:

Sakura 10.30 Shrine Maiden

Azura 10.49 Songstress

And some pairup bots (Jakob, Rinkah, Kaze, Hinata, Kagero).

I'm not against sacrificing anyone not in those initial 7 or Jakob to keep an important member of my team alive. For the record, this is almost my full team for the long run, only adding Ryoma later on. Is it worth changing Corrin to Cavalier for the extra move that would help her deal with the enemies more easily? The main downside to taking her out of Nohr Princess is that she loses Dragonstones, which I'm finding very useful for tanking, but she might not necessarily need it that much as she has 12 defense + Supportive (-2 damage taken if C+ support partner) + Evasive Partner (-3 damage taken +15 avo if paired with Jakob) for a total of 17, against these enemies who mostly do 17 to 23 damage. Reina helps a bit but she's kind of an exp sinkhole, and Takumi being able to oneshot everything is kind of let down by his 11 defense. I do have a bunch of statboosters I haven't used yet which I might if I end up needing to for this chapter but I'm not fully sure who to use them on. Any tips?

[joshcja]

How did you give Shurikenbreaker on her though lol

If you marry MU, its kinda hard. If you marry Felicia, then its possible i think, to get Shurikenbreaker by chapter 13-14 but Felicia wil hurt her defense i guess?

For my sins I bought it when I was testing. She can get it from Soliel A+/Corin inheritance naturally though.

Forgive me x.x.

Edited April 5, 2016 by joshcja

[Inference]

LOL.

Yes, I know the last attack is gonna get guarded. Back to the drawing. But seriously, the thought of Ophy one-rounding the final boss is too funny.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Inference

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Yup

Odin's heroic blood is responsible for this level of massacre

For the record i'm pretty sure Odin, Leo, and Ophelia is the only one that is capable of ORKOing Takumi outside of Corrin

Edited April 6, 2016 by JSND

[joshcja]

Yup

Odin's heroic blood is responsible for this level of massacre

For the record i'm pretty sure Odin, Leo, and Ophelia is the only one that is capable of ORKOing Takumi outside of Corrin

Arthur holding zerk corin str potted with rally str+speed with str+2/trample/axefaire/elbow room and a brave axe hits 33x4 with some crackhead crit and luna just to rub it in.

Zerks sit in that god tier with their Sorc brethren. They can't 1-2 as well and lack natural vantage in conquest entirely but that 1-1 output is obscene and they have comparable bulk to the games generals.

If there was a combat tier list it would go like

Sorc & Zerk

B

o

t

t

o

m

l

e

s

s

C

a

n

y

o

n

Magik & Draco

Everything else

Edited April 6, 2016 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

For Magical attacker, i think you need Astra, and maybe LoD for the 20x4 ORKO with Astra proc

Astra is only from SM, and outside Corrin and cronies the only possible SM is Odin, Leo, and Ophelia. Does Nyx get SM too? I'm not sure

Only Odin and Leo can pass down Astra assuming the unit can hit the 20x4 benchmark without LoD

So yeah unless i miss something, ORKOing Takumi with Magical assault is pretty much locked into Leo & Retainers(Leo, Odin,, Ophelia, Forrest) group

For physical it should be wider if Arthur is able to do 33x4, and Arthur marrying Camilla or Beruka is the easiest to do it, and he had some chance to crit i guess?

Looking back Arthur is basically min maxing champ in this game lol

Edited April 6, 2016 by JSND

[Vapo]

stuff

Feel free to ignore this, I gave the chapter another shot while going offensive instead of semi-turtling and cleared it first try.

[joshcja]

For Magical attacker, i think you need Astra, and maybe LoD for the 20x4 ORKO with Astra proc

Astra is only from SM, and outside Corrin and cronies the only possible SM is Odin, Leo, and Ophelia. Does Nyx get SM too? I'm not sure

Only Odin and Leo can pass down Astra assuming the unit can hit the 20x4 benchmark without LoD

So yeah unless i miss something, ORKOing Takumi with Magical assault is pretty much locked into Leo & Retainers(Leo, Odin,, Ophelia, Forrest) group

For physical it should be wider if Arthur is able to do 33x4, and Arthur marrying Camilla or Beruka is the easiest to do it, and he had some chance to crit i guess?

Looking back Arthur is basically min maxing champ in this game lol

Benchmark for hitting the flat ohko with a brave is like 76 flat damage physically or 72 magically with S rank tomes (Edit, 77/73, SF database was wrong again)

So yeah any zerk with capped str and minimal booststack can body Takasshat. Sorc's have to work a bit harder, only Ophelia is pulling off the kill no proc with any degree of build flexibility (Leo and Odin can pull it off with full on stack off diviner!corin).

Zerks really make up for their lack of strong 1-2 with flat nuclear 1-1 damage. It's enough to compete with the full retard of vantage tomes.

Edited April 6, 2016 by joshcja

[Aggro Incarnate]

Don't we need 77 flat damage with a Brave Weapon because Takumi has Competitive which activates by being in Bold Stance with his replica? I guess tome users and sword users are neat to use in this context due to the additional benefit from the Weapon Triangle advantage as well.

S-rank Sniper Mozu is also in the interesting position of pulling it off with a Crescent Bow given the help of a Strength Rally due to being able to grab Life and Death and Spendthrift within her natural reclassing options. Sure she's not turn-wise effective overall in the game, but she can be used as last resort in the Endgame if you have happened to have raised her and your Corrin, magic users and berserkers don't work.

31(Sniper Mozu Max STR)+2(Strength Tonic)+3(Bow S-rank)+4(Rally Strength)+8(Crescent Bow Base Might)+4(Quick Draw)+5(Bowfaire)+10(Life and Death)+10(Spendthrift)-26(Takumi Def)-1(Competitive)=50

(Max-STR Merchant Mozu with A-rank in Bows works too, though then you need other means to patch up her SPD)

Bold Stance Takumi has 30 SPD, so SPD-Capped Sniper Mozu with a Speed Tonic gives her 36 SPD which is enough to double him.Takumi’s Dragonskin cuts damage in half, so the actual damage done per hit becomes 25

Hence damage done is 25*3=75, which is exactly enough to ORKO him.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[joshcja]

Don't we need 77 flat damage with a Brave Weapon because Takumi has Competitive? I guess tome users and sword users are neat to use in this context due to the additional benefit from the Weapon Triangle advantage as well.

S-rank Sniper Mozu is also in the interesting position of pulling it off with a Crescent Bow given the help of a Strength Rally due to being able to grab Life and Death and Spendthrift within her natural reclassing options. Sure she's not turn-wise effective overall in the game, but she can be used as last resort in the Endgame if you have happened to have raised her and your magic users and berserkers aren't as good.

31(Sniper Mozu Max STR)+2(Strength Tonic)+3(Bow S-rank)+4(Rally Strength)+8(Crescent Bow Base Might)+4(Quick Draw)+5(Bowfaire)+10(Life and Death)+10(Spendthrift)-26(Takumi Def)-1(Competitive)=50

(Max-STR Merchant Mozu with A-rank in Bows works too, though then you need other means to patch up her SPD)

Bold Stance Takumi has 30 SPD, so SPD-Capped Sniper Mozu with a Speed Tonic gives her 36 SPD which is enough to double him.Takumi’s Dragonskin cuts damage in half, so the actual damage done per hit becomes 25

Hence damage done is 25*3=75, which is exactly enough to ORKO him.

Competitive When user is the lead unit and their Level is lower than their support unit’s Level, Critical rate +10, damage +3 and damage received -1

If memory serves his clone is the exact same level so no?

Mozu is underrated as fuck, Doesnt pulled her late in the conquest draft and she's actually putting in work last I looked. It's pretty cool to know she can bop the games less good archer to assert dominance lol.

Edited April 6, 2016 by joshcja

[Aggro Incarnate]

Competitive When user is the lead unit and their Level is lower than their support unit’s Level, Critical rate +10, damage +3 and damage received -1

If memory serves his clone is the exact same level so no?

It works if supported by a same or higher-level unit. Funny how the devs did not let his personal skill go to waste even until the last moment...

https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/WVW69jFge2UrKnUndA

We should have a list of builds that can ORKO him lol

Edited April 6, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[joshcja]

It works if supported by a same or higher-level unit. Funny how the devs did not let his personal skill go to waste even until the last moment...

https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/WVW69jFge2UrKnUndA

We should have a list of builds that can ORKO him lol

Woops, yeah will add that +1 to benchmarks.

I'm too used to just throwing zerk/sorc at em for big big overkill x.x

And yeah a list of orko takumi/ryoma builds/setups sorted by nogrind practicality would be nice.

Edited April 6, 2016 by joshcja

[Inference]

Forgot to mention that Niles is bae. Almost everything that went right in my first and latest Lunatic run is thanks to him in some fashion. From asserting dominance in his recruitment chapter to making an absolute joke out of Chapters 22, 24, and 25, then making sweet love to Effie for Nina to help him run an easy 1-turn Pass/Rescue chain to the final boss. He even captured the rally-every-good-stat bot from Ch. 23 who then became a linchpin in my lategame strategies.

I can't overstate how much utility Niles brings to the table in my runs. There's no reason not to use him.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Inference

[-Cynthia-]

Woops, yeah will add that +1 to benchmarks.

I'm too used to just throwing zerk/sorc at em for big big overkill x.x

And yeah a list of orko takumi/ryoma builds/setups sorted by nogrind practicality would be nice.

Dread Fighter/Samurai Talent Corrin is probably the most practical, all you need is Aggressor and Life and Death pretty much. Dread Fighter Corrin is also really good for completing chapters efficiently and stuff which is nice.

[joshcja]

Dread Fighter/Samurai Talent Corrin is probably the most practical, all you need is Aggressor and Life and Death pretty much. Dread Fighter Corrin is also really good for completing chapters efficiently and stuff which is nice.

Yes, overpowered DLC and an ass talent forced into 1-1 range to hit growths and caps, is more practical than 14k very late game on a free early unit where you need to swap from one very good in game class to...another very good in game class, when the game drops 20k on you in a place where there is literally nothing else worth buying.

PS: Tried +str ninja Corin, was incredibly underwhelmed, this setup feels like it flat needs dread fighter to function outside of like, good early dwyer. +Mag ninja seems legit for draft I guess, just swap back to noble after lock touch and spam levin/Dst+ and tomes with early 1-2 being an alright bonus.

Edited April 6, 2016 by joshcja

[-Cynthia-]

Yes, overpowered DLC and an ass talent forced into 1-1 range to hit growths and caps, is more practical than 14k very late game on a free early unit where you need to swap from one very good in game class to...another very good in game class, when the game drops 20k on you in a place where there is literally nothing else worth buying.

PS: Tried +str ninja Corin, was incredibly underwhelmed, this setup feels like it flat needs dread fighter to function outside of like, good early dwyer. +Mag ninja seems legit for draft I guess, just swap back to noble after lock touch and spam levin/Dst+ and tomes with early 1-2 being an alright bonus.

Could you enlighten me as to who/what you're actually talking about here?

The sorcs also need to go Master of Arms to get Life and Death and they generally have significantly less Str/weapon ranks for it. I'm skeptical of Zerker Arthur's hit rates here(base 55 hit weapon at WTN seems sketchy), not getting into Arthur's overall viability as a unit.

I don't see how Dread Fighter being "overpowered" makes it less practical, which I thought was the point. Not everyone has the DLC though, but for those that bought at least one other path it's fair game.

[joshcja]

Could you enlighten me as to who/what you're actually talking about here?

Literally any zerk with trample+Axefaire holding zerk corin (Pick an A rank any A rank) will flat orko on player phase. Just slap on a pot and the free rally rainbow MoA and call it a day. 2-3 seals max + a brave axe is like 12-14k.

The sorcs also need to go Master of Arms to get Life and Death and they generally have significantly less Str/weapon ranks for it. I'm skeptical of Zerker Arthur's hit rates here(base 55 hit weapon at WTN seems sketchy), not getting into Arthur's overall viability as a unit.

Wow good thing every sorc that matters has inherent access to vantage AND LoD along with off-stat Str growths and in leo's case base sword rank, that said LoD vantage is the same cost on any build... sorces just pay you dividends by eating entire maps instead of.... just killing Takumi.

Also the solution to axe hitrates is... Arthur (or Beruka, or Percy). Big big skill and Srank axes > 55 hit.

I don't see how Dread Fighter being "overpowered" makes it less practical, which I thought was the point. Not everyone has the DLC though, but for those that bought at least one other path it's fair game.

Aggressor slapped onto anything is strong, DF slapped onto anyone early is strong. It's like saying "wow I die if I don't breath".

I mean the weapon DLC would cost less than 2 versioning for DF. Shall we talk about how grinding a +7 lightning in the weapons DLC lets Nyx ORKO Takumi with no reclassing and her only expense is buying aptitude from my castle, I mean obviously this makes her the most efficient possible option.

Edited April 7, 2016 by joshcja

[-Cynthia-]

Also the solution to axe hitrates is... Arthur (or Beruka, or Percy). Big big skill and Srank axes > 55 hit.

Hard to say how well this works without knowing how Fates RNG actually works, though I suppose a somewhat unreliable clear is better than nothing.

I mean the weapon DLC would cost less than 2 versioning for DF. Shall we talk about how grinding a +7 lightning in the weapons DLC lets Nyx ORKO Takumi with no reclassing and her only expense is buying aptitude from my castle, I mean obviously this makes her the most efficient possible option.

Considering you said 'nogrind practicality', this wouldn't make a whole lot of sense as it involves grinding, DF doesn't. If you'd rather not involve DLC stuff fine, but a lot of players do have path bonuses available.

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

pretty sure he was being sarcastic about the +7 lightning. the deal with dread fighter is it's kind of broken as fuck and not worth discussing, since aggressor's going to let pretty much anyone one-round takumi.

arthur's hitrates are reliable enough, although i guess if axes are that bad we should stop using camilla for anything since she's less accurate than a trained hero of justice is

[avengerfive]

The biggest problems with the DLC classes imo is the fact they have high bases and can be used as soon as chapter 7. It lets you steamroll early game.

I haven't tried them, but they both seem pretty good. Both have consistent 1-2 range. Dark Flier is a 8 move flying unit.

Only skills that stand out to me are Aggressor, Rally Move, and Galeforce.

Edit: Yea Speed +2 is also pretty good in this game. Unlike Awakening.

Edited April 7, 2016 by avengerfive

[joshcja]

Hard to say how well this works without knowing how Fates RNG actually works, though I suppose a somewhat unreliable clear is better than nothing.

It's pretty reliable...you have a shot at a PP kill if you just hit 3 mid 80-low 90 hits in complete safety cause dual gaurd and boss first strikes zerks cause he has a crit chance...that still will not actually kill if it procs cause it's a fucking zerk, giving you 3 more swings.

Considering you said 'nogrind practicality', this wouldn't make a whole lot of sense as it involves grinding, DF doesn't. If you'd rather not involve DLC stuff fine, but a lot of players do have path bonuses available.

It was sarcasm v.v

The point was the moment you touch DLC the game just gives up and dies, nothing matters anymore, the most ass possible units are unstoppable gods with no in game expenditure.

Also aptitude was a shot at the shit covered vanilla that is SM MU + DF MU combining the most overdone boring and flat out boring builds into one, all consuming boring and inefficient build.

@ Avenger: You forgot speed +2 for that sick no support Ryoma quad

Edited April 7, 2016 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

really arthur hitrate is masked by his gamble, Remove gamble and all is gucci