A Sardonic Look at Fire Emblem Fates

[Time the Crestfallen]

Different writers, but in her support with Ryouma she's incredibly distant as well to the point of rudeness.

Also, here's her quote when fighting against Sakura; not exactly filled with a lot of remorse.

[spoiler=Sakura vs. Azura]

• Sakura: Azura!
• Azura: Sakura... I'm surprised to see you here. When did you learn to fight?
• Sakura: After M-Mother died, I began training, so I could protect the ones I love. I won't let anyone get past me - not even you!
• Azura: I see. I always knew you would grow into a strong woman. I'm happy to see you like this, Sakura. Whatever happens, I'm proud of you.
• Sakura: Azura... *sniff... sniff... * My... sister...
• Azura: Don't cry, Sakura. This is a battlefield, and we are at war. Ready your weapon, dear Sister. Show me how strong you've become.
• Sakura: *sniff* OK! Let's b-begin!

I wouldn't say that first bit is out-of-character though. I can relate to Azura in regards to wanting to be left alone and if someone tries to interact with me after I've made it clear I want to be left alone, I will get very passive-aggressive very quickly. Besides, while I don't recall how rude she was (if at all), I don't think it was anything especially egregious.

[Lanko]

Different writers, but in her support with Ryouma she's incredibly distant as well to the point of rudeness.

Also, here's her quote when fighting against Sakura; not exactly filled with a lot of remorse.

[spoiler=Sakura vs. Azura]

• Sakura: Azura!
• Azura: Sakura... I'm surprised to see you here. When did you learn to fight?
• Sakura: After M-Mother died, I began training, so I could protect the ones I love. I won't let anyone get past me - not even you!
• Azura: I see. I always knew you would grow into a strong woman. I'm happy to see you like this, Sakura. Whatever happens, I'm proud of you.
• Sakura: Azura... *sniff... sniff... * My... sister...
• Azura: Don't cry, Sakura. This is a battlefield, and we are at war. Ready your weapon, dear Sister. Show me how strong you've become.
• Sakura: *sniff* OK! Let's b-begin!

Hm, I think Sakura was the only sibling I didn't attack with Azura then. And the funny thing is that for all the condescending talk, the chances of Sakura one shotting Azura are very high, unless yours got pretty blessed in HP/DEF or is in a class of a lot of those.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Lanko

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Thats pretty much a gameplay story segregation kind of thing though. Even funnier when you remember Sakura had WTA against Azura and Azura had specific weakness to Sakura weapon on all her class options

This kind of thing isn't exactly rare in this game, with Jakob vs Felicia being the most jarring example. Seriously the story desciption of Jakob and Felicia is so innacurate its really funny

Edited April 3, 2016 by JSND

[Augestein]

So I'm playing Conquest now, and I KNOW this isn't going to be a popular opinion... But... I think Azura should have died in every path that wasn't Revelations. I don't know how she would have died (on Conquest I do, have your characters arrive to see Azura get her blood smeared on the walls), but she should have never been permitted to exist in either path. It's absolute garbage that Azura has made almost 0 effort to convince Corrin so far about Valla. They freaking warp to Valla and the curse itself couldn't affect them there, and you know what she does!? Not tell anyone about it. Even worse, is that this plot revelation makes me even more annoyed with Revelations (that was the first one I played), because if she can warp through water, why in the world did she NOT do this earlier with Corrin? Was she just not feeling like it? Where did she get that crystal ball?

Man... What happened? The plot was okay from 1-14, but I can already see it cracking to pieces in the same vain as the crystal ball. At the very least, if Azura isn't going to be alive, then make her the big bad or something manipulating everyone else to do her bidding. Heck, you know who should have been the final boss with how poorly this story is thought out?

Annakos. Her family seems to know completely about the Outrealm gates, she's been in every game that has weapons that have infinite use--- giving her family an inspiration that could have promoted her to have learned how to master the art of making indestructible weapons (like Falchion). It's pretty much been tradition for her to be some sort of merchant since I think... Fire Emblem 6 with secret shops-- implying that she sells things, but doesn't wish to make herself particularly well known to people around for some reason (a strange thing when you think about why a merchant would do this). She knows how to have people be pulled into different as seen from Awakneing DLC, and even is quite the competent fighter herself. When Odin, Laslow and Selena were saying that they couldn't mention why they were fighting with Nohr, what they were saying is that they couldn't mention Anna because she's literally... Everywhere. Also, Anna is what permits them to continue to stay in that world or have the ability to leave because no one else can use the Outrealm gates.

Why would she do this? Money. Seeing as how Anna specializes in selling weapons, there's no reason for her to NOT to want two factions to keep fighting to buy her weapons. And in the world of Fates, her greed is especially bad as she's gouging the hell out of people in the world of Fates and your characters only seem to get a discount when they volunteer to help Anna and smuggle the weapons to Corrin for less money. The truth is, the mastermind of Fates is Anna. And the reason she's willing to destroy both worlds? It's not her natural world, so she just plain doesn't care about it. Also, Valla's curse is a mastered Blood Pact curse. After refining it for years, she's managed to actually make the Blood Pact no longer a chaotic killing machine that randomly kills people and instead specifically targets the breaker of the contract.

Anakos is just Grima from a different timeline that Anna used to give the Fates team a big bad to destroy and feel satisfied for defeating and not even bother to notice that Anakos is just a stammering fool. She was even arrogant enough to stick with her tradition of keeping "Anna" in the what she named. Anna actually manged to escape the Fates team unscathed. And even if she joins and helps them on their adventures, she still wins because she squeezed every bit of funds she could from the world and can pack her bags and go home.

Until I find something that stops me from thinking this, I'm sticking to it.

I mean... At least it's kind of humorous. Man, I'm really bored.

[Abvora]

So I'm playing Conquest now, and I KNOW this isn't going to be a popular opinion... But... I think Azura should have died in every path that wasn't Revelations. I don't know how she would have died (on Conquest I do, have your characters arrive to see Azura get her blood smeared on the walls), but she should have never been permitted to exist in either path. It's absolute garbage that Azura has made almost 0 effort to convince Corrin so far about Valla. They freaking warp to Valla and the curse itself couldn't affect them there, and you know what she does!? Not tell anyone about it. Even worse, is that this plot revelation makes me even more annoyed with Revelations (that was the first one I played), because if she can warp through water, why in the world did she NOT do this earlier with Corrin? Was she just not feeling like it? Where did she get that crystal ball?

Man... What happened? The plot was okay from 1-14, but I can already see it cracking to pieces in the same vain as the crystal ball. At the very least, if Azura isn't going to be alive, then make her the big bad or something manipulating everyone else to do her bidding. Heck, you know who should have been the final boss with how poorly this story is thought out?

Annakos. Her family seems to know completely about the Outrealm gates, she's been in every game that has weapons that have infinite use--- giving her family an inspiration that could have promoted her to have learned how to master the art of making indestructible weapons (like Falchion). It's pretty much been tradition for her to be some sort of merchant since I think... Fire Emblem 6 with secret shops-- implying that she sells things, but doesn't wish to make herself particularly well known to people around for some reason (a strange thing when you think about why a merchant would do this). She knows how to have people be pulled into different as seen from Awakneing DLC, and even is quite the competent fighter herself. When Odin, Laslow and Selena were saying that they couldn't mention why they were fighting with Nohr, what they were saying is that they couldn't mention Anna because she's literally... Everywhere. Also, Anna is what permits them to continue to stay in that world or have the ability to leave because no one else can use the Outrealm gates.

Why would she do this? Money. Seeing as how Anna specializes in selling weapons, there's no reason for her to NOT to want two factions to keep fighting to buy her weapons. And in the world of Fates, her greed is especially bad as she's gouging the hell out of people in the world of Fates and your characters only seem to get a discount when they volunteer to help Anna and smuggle the weapons to Corrin for less money. The truth is, the mastermind of Fates is Anna. And the reason she's willing to destroy both worlds? It's not her natural world, so she just plain doesn't care about it. Also, Valla's curse is a mastered Blood Pact curse. After refining it for years, she's managed to actually make the Blood Pact no longer a chaotic killing machine that randomly kills people and instead specifically targets the breaker of the contract.

Anakos is just Grima from a different timeline that Anna used to give the Fates team a big bad to destroy and feel satisfied for defeating and not even bother to notice that Anakos is just a stammering fool. She was even arrogant enough to stick with her tradition of keeping "Anna" in the what she named. Anna actually manged to escape the Fates team unscathed. And even if she joins and helps them on their adventures, she still wins because she squeezed every bit of funds she could from the world and can pack her bags and go home.

Until I find something that stops me from thinking this, I'm sticking to it.

I mean... At least it's kind of humorous. Man, I'm really bored.

She states she didn't know Corrin could warp through water like she could--it's apparently an ability

only Vallites can use, and she doesn't know he's Vallite.

So she's justified in that.

As for why she doesn't say anything about Valla while they're there? You could say it's because she thinks they're too deeply embroiled in the war against Hoshido to go split off and fight another one, especially when telling Corrin that he's playing into the real big bad's hands would probably make him feel even worse, and that is true...

...but the real reason is the plot doesn't want her to, so she doesn't. Same reason the plot doesn't want Corrin and the siblings realizing Garon is evil earlier even though they should, so they don't.

[Augestein]

She states she didn't know Corrin could warp through water like she could--it's apparently an ability

only Vallites can use, and she doesn't know he's Vallite.

So she's justified in that.

As for why she doesn't say anything about Valla while they're there? You could say it's because she thinks they're too deeply embroiled in the war against Hoshido to go split off and fight another one, especially when telling Corrin that he's playing into the real big bad's hands would probably make him feel even worse, and that is true...

...but the real reason is the plot doesn't want her to, so she doesn't. Same reason the plot doesn't want Corrin and the siblings realizing Garon is evil earlier even though they should, so they don't.

And that leads to a how does she know that Vallies can only use it? The only person she knew from Valla was her mother, and from what we've gotten for information from Azura about her mother is that she didn't want to go back-- and died because she mentioned Valla to Azura. Regardless, if she saw Gunter in Valla, she could have been like "hey Corrin, Gunter is still alive!" And then had him/her jump through the bottomless Canyon to save him because the theme of Fates seems to be "Corrin will believe anyone." It's still mind blowing how stupid that is executed.

It shouldn't. The whole game Corrin has been saying "I don't want us to fight Hosido." and it doesn't stop her from doing exactly that in Revelations. You know, not fighting Hoshido? Azura being around is just awful for the plot

Which completely compromises Azura's character and makes her undeniably one of the most horrid characters in the game. She doesn't try to do anything until someone absolutely hits rock bottom? Do you even care Azura? They could have at least had her say "I'm too scared to do it alone." I'd even sort of acknowledge that, but as it stands, she just doesn't say things because she doesn't feel like it. For instance, it takes Xander to pretty much lay out on the table that Azura and explain how Azura isn't actually truly Nohrian. Not Azura despite being in the game several chapters earlier. Elise isn't some juggernaut that'd pound Azura to pieces for saying "we actually aren't sisters." Even when Corrin is aware they might not be, he doesn't open his mouth either. It's almost inhuman how much people don't speak in this game.

[Leif]

So, I beat Revelation the other day. I will be writing an analysis soon, so there will be more room for discussion.

I also will do analyses on the story DLC like Before Awakening, Hidden Truths, etc. Fan service DLC, obviously, won't get any of my attention.

I have problems with how Revelation was handled....

Essentially, this route has BOTH the problems of Conquest and Birthright. It's the weakest plot, by far. Hidden Truths complicates matters even more.

-_-

Edited April 3, 2016 by Leif

[Lanko]

So, I beat Revelation the other day. I will be writing an analysis soon, so there will be more room for discussion.

I also will do analyses on the story DLC like Before Awakening, Hidden Truths, etc. Fan service DLC, obviously, won't get any of my attention.

I have problems with how Revelation was handled....

Essentially, this route has BOTH the problems of Conquest and Birthright. It's the weakest plot, by far. Hidden Truths complicates matters even more.

-_-

Well, shit, and I was looking forward to playing it. Getting BR this week.

[Thane]

So, I beat Revelation the other day. I will be writing an analysis soon, so there will be more room for discussion.

I also will do analyses on the story DLC like Before Awakening, Hidden Truths, etc. Fan service DLC, obviously, won't get any of my attention.

I have problems with how Revelation was handled....

Essentially, this route has BOTH the problems of Conquest and Birthright. It's the weakest plot, by far. Hidden Truths complicates matters even more.

-_-

Well hey, at least the game flat out says Birthright and Conquest are wrong, so who cares about the story problems in those paths, am I right?

[Leif]

Well, shit, and I was looking forward to playing it. Getting BR this week.

By all means play it. It has good gameplay as always; it just has a weak plot.

[BruceLee]

The more i read and post about Conquest's story the more confused i get as to how a professional company could write such a shitpile of a story. At least we still have the gameplay.....

[Sire]

One possible problem when writing stories is having too many writers involved.

Sure, one writer may create the foundation, but then that foundation is then used for other writers (Support Convo writers, Main Story writers, Unit Description writers, etc.) There may be too much variability, and because there are multiple people working on the same project, aspects may become streamlined and simplified. In theory, there should be an editor of sorts that checks everything to make sure everything flows smoothly and the story is consistent so there is no real "Out of Character" behavior.

Then, of course, we have to consider the localization aspects, as they not only translate the game, but may also change up the dialogue to make it more appealing to their local audiences (such as possibly changing cultural references, so on and so forth).

Another factor may be cultural differences, as I think Eastern cultures value group cohesion and obedience to the overall group instead of the more Western approach of being an individual and doing what one believes is right. While we can see Nohr!Corrin easily rebelling or wanting to take more action, the writers and their culture may not necessarily see it that way.

Alternatively, they just put gameplay first for Fates and maybe threw in some memorable characters while the overall story took a back seat even though they said they wanted to improve the story from Awakening. Again, being a broken record, the gameplay is amazing, the concept is amazing, but the execution of the story was rather poor.

[RJWalker]

Well hey, at least the game flat out says Birthright and Conquest are wrong, so who cares about the story problems in those paths, am I right?

How so?

[Abvora]

And that leads to a how does she know that Vallies can only use it? The only person she knew from Valla was her mother, and from what we've gotten for information from Azura about her mother is that she didn't want to go back-- and died because she mentioned Valla to Azura. Regardless, if she saw Gunter in Valla, she could have been like "hey Corrin, Gunter is still alive!" And then had him/her jump through the bottomless Canyon to save him because the theme of Fates seems to be "Corrin will believe anyone." It's still mind blowing how stupid that is executed.

It shouldn't. The whole game Corrin has been saying "I don't want us to fight Hosido." and it doesn't stop her from doing exactly that in Revelations. You know, not fighting Hoshido? Azura being around is just awful for the plot

Which completely compromises Azura's character and makes her undeniably one of the most horrid characters in the game. She doesn't try to do anything until someone absolutely hits rock bottom? Do you even care Azura? They could have at least had her say "I'm too scared to do it alone." I'd even sort of acknowledge that, but as it stands, she just doesn't say things because she doesn't feel like it. For instance, it takes Xander to pretty much lay out on the table that Azura and explain how Azura isn't actually truly Nohrian. Not Azura despite being in the game several chapters earlier. Elise isn't some juggernaut that'd pound Azura to pieces for saying "we actually aren't sisters." Even when Corrin is aware they might not be, he doesn't open his mouth either. It's almost inhuman how much people don't speak in this game.

I dunno, maybe Arete told her "only we can go to Valla through water because we're Vallite, if you want anyone else to get here you need to have them jump into the Bottomless Canyon"? Since, you know, Arete's the one she got the information on Valla from in the first place? Arete was born in Valla as royalty, so surely she'd have known about an ability like that, right?

You're assuming they have time to go gallivanting off to the Bottomless Canyon in the middle of a war, and that Garon wouldn't punish them severely for desertion (which it would essentially be considered, abandoning the front lines for something else) when they got back.

Exactly, she acts so out of character, so far removed from Support!Azura, Birthright!Azura, and Revelation!Azura, that judging her as "horrid" solely for that moment is a huge disservice. Birthright!Azura never says anything about Valla because they never go there and never have the chance to, and Revelation!Azura spills the beans as soon as she can. Conquest!Azura is forced by the writers to act out of character and keep silent so players can buy Revelation later, just like Xander and the Nohrian siblings are forced to refuse to acknowledge Garon is evil.

Heck, Story!Xander has a moment just as bad as Conquest Chapter 15, refusing to acknowledge that Garon is evil when he overhears him plotting to kill Corrin, and even threatening to kill Corrin if he's wrong about Garon, which goes completely against his established trait of loving his sibling dearly. Does that make him one of the worst characters in the game, laying aside the fact that Support!Xander, like Support!Azura, is a really fleshed-out and thoughtful character with established flaws and virtues? When a character is forced to suddenly act contrary to they were before, for the sake of the plot, you don't blame them for it, you blame the writers. And anyone who touches Conquest's plot sans Takumi is worse off for it.

[Thane]

How so?

Sorry man, can't find the quote; when I read the Japanese transcription of the DLC, Anankos said "if he/she chooses wrong..." and referred to Birthright and Conquest.

However, even in the English version he does say that the only way to save the world is to kill, well, himself, meaning that regardless of the supposed happy endings of Birthright and Conquest, the world is fucked.

[RJWalker]

Sorry man, can't find the quote; when I read the Japanese transcription of the DLC, Anankos said "if he/she chooses wrong..." and referred to Birthright and Conquest.

However, even in the English version he does say that the only way to save the world is to kill, well, himself, meaning that regardless of the supposed happy endings of Birthright and Conquest, the world is fucked.

Yeah, that sounds awful. But I expected this to be the case wtih Revelations being the true path.

[Leif]

Sorry man, can't find the quote; when I read the Japanese transcription of the DLC, Anankos said "if he/she chooses wrong..." and referred to Birthright and Conquest.

However, even in the English version he does say that the only way to save the world is to kill, well, himself, meaning that regardless of the supposed happy endings of Birthright and Conquest, the world is fucked.

Yeah, that sounds awful. But I expected this to be the case wtih Revelations being the true path.

This is why I don't like how the campaigns were handled. Revelation is the true path because the big bad is destroyed and everyone comes together and lives happily ever after. This cheapens everything that happened in Conquest and Birthright.

I hate having to keep bringing up Tactics Ogre, but none of the different routes were implied to be the "true" path. It was up to the player.

One possible problem when writing stories is having too many writers involved.

Sure, one writer may create the foundation, but then that foundation is then used for other writers (Support Convo writers, Main Story writers, Unit Description writers, etc.) There may be too much variability, and because there are multiple people working on the same project, aspects may become streamlined and simplified. In theory, there should be an editor of sorts that checks everything to make sure everything flows smoothly and the story is consistent so there is no real "Out of Character" behavior.

Then, of course, we have to consider the localization aspects, as they not only translate the game, but may also change up the dialogue to make it more appealing to their local audiences (such as possibly changing cultural references, so on and so forth).

Another factor may be cultural differences, as I think Eastern cultures value group cohesion and obedience to the overall group instead of the more Western approach of being an individual and doing what one believes is right. While we can see Nohr!Corrin easily rebelling or wanting to take more action, the writers and their culture may not necessarily see it that way.

Alternatively, they just put gameplay first for Fates and maybe threw in some memorable characters while the overall story took a back seat even though they said they wanted to improve the story from Awakening. Again, being a broken record, the gameplay is amazing, the concept is amazing, but the execution of the story was rather poor.

This is so true. Intelligent NEEDS to have a experienced writer (who actually wrote for video games) handle the next game. They have the gameplay, music, and graphics down pat. All they need is someone who can create a coherent plot with proper character arcs and world-building. What a thought!

[eclipse]

This is so true. Intelligent NEEDS to have a experienced writer (who actually wrote for video games) handle the next game. They have the gameplay, music, and graphics down pat. All they need is someone who can create a coherent plot with proper character arcs and world-building. What a thought!

Actually, no.

What I'd do is keep the story as minimal as Pokemon, since the vocal fandom's pretty ungrateful when it comes to story reception. If they don't like the story, but like the gameplay, then why waste money on the story? 'sides, even the best-written story has people who bitch about it.

[Locke087]

Actually, no.What I'd do is keep the story as minimal as Pokemon, since the vocal fandom's pretty ungrateful when it comes to story reception. If they don't like the story, but like the gameplay, then why waste money on the story? 'sides, even the best-written story has people who bitch about it.

Those who don't ever like the story have a beautiful thing called the start button.... Why take away the story from people who like and recognize when IS writes a good story (FE 7, 9, 4 imo). I really dislike that people keep asking IS to stop trying, that is horrible advice to give to any creator. It's like asking your friend who is a cook to stop trying to make different food because he has not been very successful in the past and just keep making Sandwhichs because he can't mess that up.

[eclipse]

Those who don't ever like the story have a beautiful thing called the start button.... Why take away the story from people who like and recognize when IS writes a good story (FE 7, 9, 4 imo). I really dislike that people keep asking IS to stop trying, that is horrible advice to give to any creator. It's like asking your friend who is a cook to stop trying to make different food because he has not been very successful in the past and just keep making Sandwhichs because he can't mess that up.

You missed the FE7 shitstorm. Probably for the best. There's detractors from 9 (never mind the sales numbers), and I personally don't care for 4.

What's the difference between me and 4 and the people complaining about Fates? I don't go into the SNES subforum and complain about everything I don't like about 4, snarky or otherwise.

[Namarid]

Actually, no.What I'd do is keep the story as minimal as Pokemon, since the vocal fandom's pretty ungrateful when it comes to story reception. If they don't like the story, but like the gameplay, then why waste money on the story? 'sides, even the best-written story has people who bitch about it.

I'm a little confused by what you mean by ungrateful here.

[Frelia]

So, I beat Revelation the other day. I will be writing an analysis soon, so there will be more room for discussion.

I also will do analyses on the story DLC like Before Awakening, Hidden Truths, etc. Fan service DLC, obviously, won't get any of my attention.

I have problems with how Revelation was handled....

Essentially, this route has BOTH the problems of Conquest and Birthright. It's the weakest plot, by far. Hidden Truths complicates matters even more.

-_-

That sounds good to me. I have so many issues with how all three routes are handled. The gameplay and music are good, but the story is a mess. I would like to see a better written story in the next game because IntSys has shown in other FEs that they can do better and a good story can make a game more enjoyable. Good gameplay and music is not always enough. I don't know if minimizing the next FE's story like Pokemon is a good idea. Pokemon has been moving up storywise since Gen III (Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald). Pokemon X & Y's story was minimized unlike Black & White's and Black 2/White 2's, but that didn't work out too well and a lot of people in the Pokemon community criticize it. FE's story doesn't need to be minimized it needs better writers. It really does.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Frelia

[Water Mage]

I'm a little confused by what you mean by ungrateful here.

I think she meant that no matter how well-written a story is, there will always be people complaing about the story because it didn't go the way the wanted it to go.

This is, sadly, a very common behavior this days...

[Namarid]

I think she meant that no matter how well-written a story is, there will always be people complaing about the story because it didn't go the way the wanted it to go.

This is, sadly, a very common behavior this days...

Oh,OK thanks for answering. Yes that is depressing and frankly quite annoying. Even if that's the case I don't think scaling back the story is the right move.

Unlike Pokémon, I see the story in a fire emblem game to be a big part of the game. It gives meaning to the battles that happen. If they devolve that into skirmishes with no meaning then I feel that I would get bored with the game very fast.

[saisymbolic]

Why does the internet always take criticism and immediately paint it into a hatred of something? Why does everything have to be black and white?

See what I did there?

People are going to complain about something, regardless of how well-written it is. Someone, somewhere, is going to look at a media, find fault in it and vent about it (quite possibly passionately and/or violently) on the internet because the internet offers anonymity that is not available in real life.

There will be people who are ignorant and have that black and white mentality of something. Then, there are other people who can look past that black and white and enter the grey and realize that, despite not being the zenith--that despite all the faults--they can still enjoy said media. Or they may not enjoy it but they realize that, in spite of the flaws, there is indeed some good left or some potential for some good.

Fates messed up, in several ways. I will comment on this. Was IS arrogant off the success of Awakening? Yes. I will also comment on that. Does that mean I want IS to take story completely out because they dropped the ball and then proceeded to pop it (which is honestly an exaggeration because there is worse)? No, because that would be stupid.

They messed up. Okay. People complain and rant about it. Okay. People see the vocal party and, for some reason, assume everyone thinks in a similar manner. Why?