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Jotari

How OP Should Lords Be?

  

99 members have voted

  1. 1. How Effective Should Lords Be in Combat

    • If they can't solo the game then I'm wasting my time (like Sigurd)
    • Lord's are prissy rich boys that need to be mollycoddled (like Roy).
    • Weak to start but grow with their character (like Leif?).
    • Leave it entirely up to luck with 50% growths in everything (like Eliwood).
    • Just stick em on the backside of a pair up (like Chrom).
      0
    • Give me a good average lord (like Marth).
    • I don't care as long as they can marry everyone.
    • I'd be cool with a stave bot or dancing lord.
    • "The next avatar should be the convoy and nothing else."


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Chrom was the perfect execution of a lord, as he expanded on the idea of FE12 Marf. Chrom was offensively competent, had tons of utility, and was never a liability. Access to dual effective weaponry, dual strike+, speed pair up where it mattered, great class set. He was a lot of things and never felt like a liability.

He's strong but not because he shit stomps everything a la Sigurd and RD Ike, but rather because he just had so much utility on top of being pretty good at fighting. Saying he just goes in the back of a pair up completely undersells him.

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Chrom was the perfect execution of a lord, as he expanded on the idea of FE12 Marf. Chrom was offensively competent, had tons of utility, and was never a liability. Access to dual effective weaponry, dual strike+, speed pair up where it mattered, great class set. He was a lot of things and never felt like a liability.

He's strong but not because he shit stomps everything a la Sigurd and RD Ike, but rather because he just had so much utility on top of being pretty good at fighting. Saying he just goes in the back of a pair up completely undersells him.

Yeah, you're probably right. But that poll option was more of a jab at how much Robin dominates the gameplay of Awakening and outshines Chrim rather heavily.

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Chrom was the perfect execution of a lord, as he expanded on the idea of FE12 Marf. Chrom was offensively competent, had tons of utility, and was never a liability. Access to dual effective weaponry, dual strike+, speed pair up where it mattered, great class set. He was a lot of things and never felt like a liability.

He's strong but not because he shit stomps everything a la Sigurd and RD Ike, but rather because he just had so much utility on top of being pretty good at fighting. Saying he just goes in the back of a pair up completely undersells him.

This is basically what I want in a lord. Someone useful and competent but not broken. Ideally, we'd have characters that have high utility like Kamui but balanced strength with the rest of your army. Hector is a good standard for overall strength; an effective unit but not invincible.

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Statistically, I like a 20/20 lord to be about as good as one of your starting cavaliers, maybe a little better, but always slightly weaker than a fully leveled Est character.

I prefer they promote around PoR Ike time, or your first out of three lords to promote in FE7.

I am pretty tired of swords though. Gimme a bow, a staff or a dancer/bard. I still wished Innes was a lord, and joined when Vanessa and Moulder did. Make Syrene join where Innes did just so the mercs still make sense. I'd rather nobody join on Syrene's chapter anyways.

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I mean, FE14 basically gave us a Dancer lord in Azura. I would like more magic lords, though, and another axe lord would be nice. Lyn is a nicely-done lord, same with Chrom. Not too good, not too bad, and just really overall a solid character. More mounted lords would also be interesting; Sigurd was the only one that I'm aware of.

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I mean, FE14 basically gave us a Dancer lord in Azura. I would like more magic lords, though, and another axe lord would be nice. Lyn is a nicely-done lord, same with Chrom. Not too good, not too bad, and just really overall a solid character. More mounted lords would also be interesting; Sigurd was the only one that I'm aware of.

Depends on how you define 'mounted'. Sigurd was a pre-promote, and Seliph, Eliwood, Eirika and Ephraim all promote to mounted lords. If you want someone who starts mounted, that'll edge more into 'we don't have one yet'. Though a pegasus Lord does sound interesting... what with the weakness to arrows and more efficient way to seize. I always loved playing Florina in FE7, and having a Lord able to do that...

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I mean, FE14 basically gave us a Dancer lord in Azura. I would like more magic lords, though, and another axe lord would be nice. Lyn is a nicely-done lord, same with Chrom. Not too good, not too bad, and just really overall a solid character. More mounted lords would also be interesting; Sigurd was the only one that I'm aware of.

Azura was plot relevant but I don't really see what lord traits she had. You don't get game over if she dies, she isn't forced in most chapters. In terms of gameplay I can't see anything that distinquishes her from any other dancing unit in the series.

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FE1 Marth Falchion isn't the same. Because Marth himself isn't an exceptionally powerful unit. FE2 Alm is good, but not broken. FE3, Same story. FE4? Sigurd is OP. FE5, Leif is not. FE6? Nope. Roy is similar to Marth in that regard. FE7 the lords are pretty competent, and they only continue to get better sans Micaiah, and none of them get gamebreaking weaopns. I'm not asking for them to be bad, I just hate the need to make uber weapons like this. The lord was already competent enough, so it's silly to give them weapons like that. Fates gets out of hand with the royals for instance, and it kind of sucks in that regard. Robin for instance in Awakening is essentially a lord as well and snaps the game in two. Roy's weapon is a least humbled by the fact that it has 20 uses.

Marth is the best unit in FE1. Alm is the best unit in FE2. Light Sword is broken in FE5. None of the holy weapon royals in FE14 would be really good units without the holy weapons.

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Depends on how you define 'mounted'. Sigurd was a pre-promote, and Seliph, Eliwood, Eirika and Ephraim all promote to mounted lords. If you want someone who starts mounted, that'll edge more into 'we don't have one yet'. Though a pegasus Lord does sound interesting... what with the weakness to arrows and more efficient way to seize. I always loved playing Florina in FE7, and having a Lord able to do that...

Yeah, Pega Pony Princess lord was more what I was thinking of, or maybe they could bring back Griffon Riders and have it be a unique mount.

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While I haven't played Lunatic in Awakening, there's something that feels really wrong when all I hear of the solution is to solo with just Chrom and Robin. I thought Fire Emblem was about working with your units together, NOT soak up all of the EXP to make an OP unit, dump that in the middle of a battlefield, and hope for the best. (Otherwise, I don't see the point in giving all of the non-lord units unique portraits, names and backstories.) Either Robin is, or the earlier Lunatic enemy units are, overpowered, maybe both. But something really needs to change here. While I'm only at Chapter 6 in Fates, the things I hear about the Royals doesn't sound so good.

Thinking about it now, Binding Blade and DS Shadow Dragon were good, because all of my units had something to contribute, it felt like a team effort, and brute-force your way through (if you don't have a good reason at least) is discouraged in general. Please, IS, no more stuff like Ryoma Emblem or Chrobin Emblem. I'm starting to think that this is at least one of the reason why I became bored, and just stopped playing my second Awakening run.

Edited by henrymidfields

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Marth is the best unit in FE1. Alm is the best unit in FE2. Light Sword is broken in FE5. None of the holy weapon royals in FE14 would be really good units without the holy weapons.

Except it's like saying "Ephraim is the best" because you're fighting awful enemies in the game in FE1. FE1 is just... Bad... And for a lot of it, the mounted units do the same thing as Marth, ORKO enemies. FE2? No. Peg.Knights are pretty solid, mages aren't bad, and even the villagers aren't too bad either, okay, maybe Robin is, but the other two are okay. Celica can be argued to be even better than Alm tbh. Light sword has 60 uses. And Ryoma would absolutely be good without his weapon. leo is like one of the only viable mages, Xander might be less special, but he'd still be good, and Camilla, Hinoka, Elise and Sakura don't even have special weapons. Takumi would still be a good unit. He has no bad stats. If being an archer is too much, make him a spear fighter. He'd still be fine. Corrin would be fine as well. Although nobility is probably more responsible for Corrin being good in a standard game. That said, the royals aren't even lords. Corrin is the lord of Fates.

The issue is that the lord shouldn't be able to carry the whole game. FE1 has this problem, and then it kinda goes away until Sigurd, and then it stays kind of gone until they decide that the lords needed to become more powerful for some reason. It's why I prefer say Chrom to Robin, as Chrom is a fine lord. Not broken, but powerful enough.

Edited by Augestein

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I'm a bit salty that all the really OP lords make Roy so much worse by comparison. He's not that bad at the end of the day, and his weaknesses add to the game play overall.

When the benchmark is Ike/Sigurd/Robin, however, I understand why people feel the way they do. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

Edited by ChibiToastExplosion

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I'm a bit salty that all the really OP lords make Roy so much worse by comparison. He's not that bad at the end of the day, and his weaknesses add to the game play overall.

When the benchmark is Ike/Sigurd/Robin, however, I understand why people feel the way they do. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

Honestly, Roy's biggest problem is that promotion time. Before then, he's actually alright. He's not your best unit, but he's passable. It's not until everyone starts promoting and Roy doesn't that he starts to get really bad.

It's why I'm fine with characters like Leif having things like Light Brand because it's clear that it's to stop him from being astronomical suck in the event that you get screwed from the RNG or as a form of life insurance if you play and don't hit reset every time someone dies.

I like characters like that because they can't carry things along.

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Honestly, Roy's biggest problem is that promotion time. Before then, he's actually alright. He's not your best unit, but he's passable. It's not until everyone starts promoting and Roy doesn't that he starts to get really bad.

Agreed.

Although for some reason Hector (and to a lesser extent Eliwood) gets a pass for doing pretty much the same thing.

Edited by ChibiToastExplosion

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To be honest, Sigurd felt OP only in the the two first chapters(Prologue, chapter 1); later in the game, he will be surpassed by the other units, altough he will still be useful. Or maybe, I was just unlucky with Sigurd.

Anyway, I would like a lord kinda like Eliwood or Hector: starts weak, but becomes strong later in the game, tough not enough to finish the game by himself(I'm looking at you, FE9!Ike).

Mainly because it gives me a feeling of satisfation to see how the lord became so strong thank to all the efforts I've put into him

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I think the game was almost trolling you by giving you a 20/20 Unit on the same chapter Roy promotes, and that's only if you don't get the Gaiden. If they actually had him promote before that Gaiden then he'd have four chapters (or is it five? Can't remember if you're able to save before Idoun) to play around with promoted which isn't all that bad compared to the other Game Boy Advanced Lords. I also think the fact that the other two Game Boy Advance games have multiple lords help their late promotion times seem less egregious since.

Edited by Jotari

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Agreed.

Although for some reason Hector (and to a lesser extent Eliwood) gets a pass for doing pretty much the same thing.

Because of the modes. Eliwood promoted when you get the first Heaven Seal actually isn't that bad off. Same goes for Hector. It's on their respective mode where they start to drag the team down because Cog of Destiny is SUCH a late chapter to promote comparatively. It's not Roy late, but it's pretty lousy. Roy should have promoted when he was appointed the general of the army. That would have been awesome. I think... That would have been chapter 16? That would have been great.

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While I haven't played Lunatic in Awakening, there's something that feels really wrong when all I hear of the solution is to solo with just Chrom and Robin. I thought Fire Emblem was about working with your units together, NOT soak up all of the EXP to make an OP unit, dump that in the middle of a battlefield, and hope for the best. (Otherwise, I don't see the point in giving all of the non-lord units unique portraits, names and backstories.) Either Robin is, or the earlier Lunatic enemy units are, overpowered, maybe both. But something really needs to change here. While I'm only at Chapter 6 in Fates, the things I hear about the Royals doesn't sound so good.

Thinking about it now, Binding Blade and DS Shadow Dragon were good, because all of my units had something to contribute, it felt like a team effort, and brute-force your way through (if you don't have a good reason at least) is discouraged in general. Please, IS, no more stuff like Ryoma Emblem or Chrobin Emblem. I'm starting to think that this is at least one of the reason why I became bored, and just stopped playing my second Awakening run.

One of the easiest ways to deal with a FE game is train up one unit that can single-handedly ORKO everything to exist plus a healer to keep them in top shape.

Quality over quantity is a very valid statement regarding the series.

Edit: this is why Seth Solo is considered the easiest way to beat FE8 ftr

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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Edit: this is why Seth Solo is considered the easiest way to beat FE8 ftr

Wait, so Seth can actually solo even when horse killer is actually a thing? Just how much steroids (base stats/growth) did Seth get? Me? I didn't use him at all in either of my two runs. My non-Seth 10-15 units did perfectly fine, plus I didn't know Oifey was even a thing back then.

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Wait, so Seth can actually solo even when horse killer is actually a thing? Just how much steroids (base stats/growth) did Seth get? Me? I didn't use him at all in either of my two runs. My non-Seth 10-15 units did perfectly fine, plus I didn't know Oifey was even a thing back then.

Seth is probably the best unit ever to grace FE due to a combination of factors. His growths are very good, despite being a early prepromote, meaning his stats will be able to keep up with his levels. Second, GBA had an avoid formula that was very generous, meaning he's probably going to dodge those Zanbatos anyway. And last, FE8 enemies sucked. They're so pathetically weak that even though Seth's stats were a bit below average for his level, he could hold his own throughout.

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I definitely want a Lord that starts kinda weak/average but grows to be a good unit. Their stats don't have to be above average, but they should get some good skill options. This is especially true in recent games where stats matter a lot less since you can effectively level forever.

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