Let's Talk FE15

[Jotari]

Pretty sure that's more Stat Deflation. :P

And is there any hint from IntSys as to what they number Fates internally? Because that would be something worth noting, but it'll still likely be FE15 as the next game to everyone else. And on that, does anyone think that difficulty would be raised in the next title?

Apparently internal data in New Mystery or Awakening suggests IS consider Achaneia saga as a full entry (or so I heard) so we'd inconsistent with whatever they believe regardless.

[TheInternetExplorer]

Avatar: Not going anywhere atm, the SI is too strong. I'm hoping for a downplayed role in the story though, less main and more support. Something like Mark in FE7 and Robin in the Plegia arc.

Marriage: Also staying, waifu/husbando too strong. I don't mind it personally, just wish the supports were better written.

Kids: Pls no, it's just more characters in an already large and badly written cast

Gameplay: 9/10, just one thing left #makemagicgreatagain

[Esme]

They should reward low turn counts with hardcore pornography.

Of good-looking men

Agreed.

[Dandy Druid]

Story-wise, I'd prefer something more revolutionary-esque, something akin to Gen 2 of FE4 or Part 1 in FE10. Sort of like a rags to riches type story. And maybe, the more your army gains momentum and gets more money, your weaponry and armor quality increases. So instead of just customizing one character, you customize the main the motif/color scheme of the entire army. This would have to call for a smaller cast of characters though (around 30, or the amount of one generation of characters in FE4). And as you gain more power, it may affect how well your allies are able to handle it. Some may get cockier, and some even corrupted, which adds an ironic twist to the plot, causing you to have to eliminate a former ally if they got corrupted. Of course, there should be away around this too, if support is high enough.

Anyways this is just something I think may be interesting for the series though.

I'm OK with a customization, but maybe a personality test should be taken to give your character a certain personality type which can affect what decisions they make or how they react to certain events/people. As long as the main character isn't a Mary Sue, that's alright. No cop outs for them, our choices should impact the story more.

I'm fine with supports and base camp conversations together, anything to add more depth to the characters would be refreshing. I don't mind the marriage aspect, but I think it should be saved for the ending like GBA games. It doesn't make much sense to me for characters to be getting married during the middle of a war. And no children characters for a change, unless they're going to do it like FE4.

[Thane]

You know what Tellius did that should've been expanded upon further, besides the obvious base conversations?

Armies.

There was actually a feeling that things were happening around you and that there were a lot of people involved. We've gone from that to all the main characters casually walking up to key defensive positions of a country, without any minor characters or even redshirts to accompany them.

The devil is in the detail. The world feels far more alive if there's some kind of implied activity outside of what you get to see yourself. Throw in some focus on strategy, supplies, morale etc. and you've suddenly added at least some resemblance of realism already, provided you don't go fullblown anime with the numbers.

It's not the most important thing I want to see, but really, this should be a part of the series without having to specifically ask for it.

[Jotari]

You know what Tellius did that should've been expanded upon further, besides the obvious base conversations?

Armies.

There was actually a feeling that things were happening around you and that there were a lot of people involved. We've gone from that to all the main characters casually walking up to key defensive positions of a country, without any minor characters or even redshirts to accompany them.

The devil is in the detail. The world feels far more alive if there's some kind of implied activity outside of what you get to see yourself. Throw in some focus on strategy, supplies, morale etc. and you've suddenly added at least some resemblance of realism already, provided you don't go fullblown anime with the numbers.

It's not the most important thing I want to see, but really, this should be a part of the series without having to specifically ask for it.

I concur. Both of the Telluis games were great at giving the feeling that this was just the vanguard and that there were tonnes more soldiers just off screen going at it. And it was accomplished so easily but just having some generics accompany you every now and then along with the occasional fmv.

[Radiant head]

i thought conquest was attempting to do that, but yeah.

[Thane]

i thought conquest was attempting to do that, but yeah.

Do or do not, there is no try.

It was Conquest I had in mind when I wrote "walking up to key defensive positions", since the invasion of Hoshido is effectively portrayed as a stroll from one point to the next, much like the rest of the game. Without going into too much detail, one of my many complaints of the writing of Fates is how there's no sense of progression, it's just a string of events happening to the cast as they go from point A to point B without any padding, non plot related conversations or worldbuilding that would give some weight to the events which are transpiring.

Don't get me wrong, having a clear goal is beneficial to the plot as a whole, but you need to actually make the journey itself eventful and feel worth it. That's what I ask for in Fire Emblem 15.

[Radiant head]

yeah the last thing i want to do is defend conquest, but i just meant there's a non-binary difference between conquest's attempt at a military campaign and the kind of standard fantasy adventure that birthright and awakening are.

[saisymbolic]

I honestly just wrote off the party in CQ as the vanguard force. Granted, as much as I love the game, they could have done way better in portraying military formations and strategical and tactical plans.

[Jotari]

I got a slight sense of it in Conquest since Iago and Garon were hanging around implying there were other Nohr forces somewhere but Revelations and especially Birthright hit very hard with the whole walking into the capital. Okay, no, they 'sneak' into the capital in Birthright. That actively discourages you from imagining there's any sort of army or conflict going on. Corrin basically assassinated Xander and Garon to end the war.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

Another thing Tellius was great at that relates to armies: it's clear how well each kingdom/empire is doing in whichever war is going on, where the off-screen battles are happening, and where the borders and defences are. For example, in Path of Radiance, one Daein General points out that ever since they took the capital, "Each town displays less and less resistance- now they literally throw wide the gates at the first sight of our approach! [...] I worry that my troops may become sloppy and lose their edge." From this and the town in this very chapter, you know what's going on in what's left of yet-to-be conquered Crimea.
In Radiant Dawn, the Laguz alliance knows which fortresses it needs to take to enter Begnion, and you know the main Begnion army is on its way.

In Conquest, Ryouma shows up out of the blue in the middle of Nohr (despite that very same area of Nohr requiring a large campaign to get to in Birthright and the Hoshidan forces supposedly aren't any better off in Conquest) to try to get Corrin back and somehow is able to get back to Hoshido despite the fact that his army's presence in Nohr should have raised all kinds of alarms. The borders and where the armies are fighting is extremely unclear. Plus, Nohr was invading, and, as far as I could tell, wins the fight in chapter 6. Why does it then pretty much completely fall back? If the battle was a stalemate, then it would make sense for both armies to fall back and regroup. But whichever army you choose wins the fight, but both armies fall back, which makes sense in Birthright as the Hoshidans are on the defence, but the Nohrians are the attackers, and they have the momentum if you side with them.

Edited December 28, 2016 by vanguard333

[Sentinel07]

Yeah, this all seems to be something Fire Emblem has moved away from in recent games.

In the majority of games before and especially in Path of Radiance, there were always many cogs at work. Heck, even in Shadow Dragon and it's light story, there are many things going on that you're not involved in and you really get a sense for how things are going.

But both Awakening and Fates have traded those in for character-focused drama instead, and now they have very little happen that doesn't involve your protagonist. Fates is the worst of the two, putting every single tiny thing around Corrin's existence.

[Tolvir]

I want multiplayer refined more. Fates was a step in the right direction in terms of pvp and competitive play, but it also left glaring issues that need to be addressed in 15. It needs to be more balanced. The pvp and the actual gsme's balance can be separated too, limited mode was an example of it.

If these skills return in 15, they need to be banned in online matches. Lethality (it's too rng and causes a one shot kill at random. It takes any level of strategy out of s fight, and with lethality builds being so popular, it needs to be taken out.), Warp (if the ability is changed to where you can teleport to an ally and take no action afterwards, that would be better. But as it stands it just adds to much.) Galeforce, and any ability like Nohrian trust that allows use of pair upped allies abilities.

These skills are too overpowered for an online match.

Forge weapons should also be banned. If they are forged, then they are reduced to their basic form. This allows for a more equal footing among players that have ways to grind and those that don't. To make it more equal to any royal weapons (things like the Yato, or the Fujin Yumi.) all royal weapons are either reduced in effectiveness, or eliminated from PvP all together.

There should also be a max level. Set it above 20, so maybe 30-40.

I think with these changes PvP could become a lot more balanced and enjoyable. Fates did a good job of making an online system, it just needs a lot of work.

I also think some kind of co op multiplayer would be fun. Some kind of system that lets you team up with someone else, choose 5 units each, and try to survive as log as you can against endless waves or have to clear really large maps with ridiculous amounts of enemies.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Tolvir

[Etrurian emperor]

Another thing Tellius was great at that relates to armies: it's clear how well each kingdom/empire is doing in whichever war is going on, where the off-screen battles are happening, and where the borders and defences are. For example, in Path of Radiance, one Daein General points out that ever since they took the capital, "Each town displays less and less resistance- now they literally throw wide the gates at the first sight of our approach! [...] I worry that my troops may become sloppy and lose their edge." From this and the town in this very chapter, you know what's going on in what's left of yet-to-be conquered Crimea.

In Radiant Dawn, the Laguz alliance knows which fortresses it needs to take to enter Begnion, and you know the main Begnion army is on its way.

In Conquest, Ryouma shows up out of the blue in the middle of Nohr (despite that very same area of Nohr requiring a large campaign to get to in Birthright and the Hoshidan forces supposedly aren't any better off in Conquest) to try to get Corrin back and somehow is able to get back to Hoshido despite the fact that his army's presence in Nohr should have raised all kinds of alarms. The borders and where the armies are fighting is extremely unclear. Plus, Nohr was invading, and, as far as I could tell, wins the fight in chapter 6. Why does it then pretty much completely fall back? If the battle was a stalemate, then it would make sense for both armies to fall back and regroup. But whichever army you choose wins the fight, but both armies fall back, which makes sense in Birthright as the Hoshidans are on the defence, but the Nohrians are the attackers, and they have the momentum if you side with them.

I agree with the general sentiment but some of your examples might have some justification in the story.

It could have been explained better but it seems like Hoshido is invading or at least raiding into eastern Nohr. Corrin encounters them holding a Nohrian fortress on the way to the harbor, fights Takumi invading the harbor and when once he's back into Nohr Ryoma and his army are at the eastern estate.

It also might make some sense for Nohr to leave after chapter 6 in Conquest because they came to get Corrin back and if Corrin chose Nohr then the mission was a success.

[vanguard333]

You make some good points, and I can understand a desperate counterattack into Nohr if it was better explained, and my point was that it wasn't (but thanks for reminding me about chapter 10), but really it makes the events of chapter 6 make even less sense: Nohr wins the battle in chapter 6, yet falls back and essentially allows Hoshido to launch a desperate counterattack deep in Nohrian territory, despite invading Nohr being presented as a difficult challenge in Birthright. If it were the case that Nohr had used its momentum in invading Hoshido, then Hoshido launched a desperate high-risk counter into unprotected Nohrian territory that forces Nohrian forces to fall back, giving Hoshido's main army breathing room, then it would make a lot more sense in my opinion (and would convey a lot more of what's happening in the background). But instead, Nohr wins, retreats, allows Hoshidan forces into its borders, and waits almost inexplicably until chapter 16 to invade Hoshido.

EDIT: Furthermore, it doesn't seem like Hoshido is launching a desperate counterattack, as they would gain nothing from that as Nohr retreated. Instead their just... invading; it seems, when they are the ones on the defensive.

Plus, Nohr's mission in chapter 6 was not to get Corrin back; Xander clearly states that King Garon says its time to invade Hoshido. The Nohrian royals are even surprised to see Corrin there at all. Even if that was their mission, it would make sense for a small group (in this case all the royals) to escort Corrin back to Nohr while the rest of the army either holds position or continues to move into Hoshido (they do have the momentum after all), but it seems like the entire army decides to fall back even though they won.

Edited January 9, 2017 by vanguard333

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

First off gameplay-wise needs to stay. Tweak a little bit of it though. Stat nerfs from daggers need to go away after one turn no matter how big, unless stated otherwise. Take bows out of the weapon triangle, and use a better magic system. I would like either awakenings system or the magic trinity light>dark>anima>light. Next constitution should be added to weapons without durability, and max constitution is class related similar to movement. Weapons with durability is fine too, just use the classic system.

Supports: I think certain supports shouldn't be unlockable until other supports are completed. Example: Charlotte must achieve A rank with Xander or Leo before she can support most other units. This means that she will grow as a character because the flirty nature will be finished in one of those supports. In supports unlocked after that she talks about how she is good friends with Xander, and she doesn't go flirt crazy. This is good for character development instead of re-establishing her over and over again. This can go many layers too, example: Peri's supports, Peri must achieve B with Laslow, Xander, or Odin to unlock Selena and Benny supports, after achieving B with Selena or Benny she unlocks the rest of her supports where she tries to become a better person and does something unique in each support.

Story: No split release, but choices like CQ Shura would be great. Don't be afraid to force characters into certain chapters during early game. Example: Azura needs to talk to Takumi for recruitment, but we won't know that on the first playthrough. So Azura is forced into the chapter so she can talk to Takumi.

[Sentinel07]

First off gameplay-wise needs to stay. Tweak a little bit of it though. Stat nerfs from daggers need to go away after one turn no matter how big, unless stated otherwise. Take bows out of the weapon triangle, and use a better magic system. I would like either awakenings system or the magic trinity light>dark>anima>light. Next constitution should be added to weapons without durability, and max constitution is class related similar to movement. Weapons with durability is fine too, just use the classic system.

Supports: I think certain supports shouldn't be unlockable until other supports are completed. Example: Charlotte must achieve A rank with Xander or Leo before she can support most other units. This means that she will grow as a character because the flirty nature will be finished in one of those supports. In supports unlocked after that she talks about how she is good friends with Xander, and she doesn't go flirt crazy. This is good for character development instead of re-establishing her over and over again. This can go many layers too, example: Peri's supports, Peri must achieve B with Laslow, Xander, or Odin to unlock Selena and Benny supports, after achieving B with Selena or Benny she unlocks the rest of her supports where she tries to become a better person and does something unique in each support.

Story: No split release, but choices like CQ Shura would be great. Don't be afraid to force characters into certain chapters during early game. Example: Azura needs to talk to Takumi for recruitment, but we won't know that on the first playthrough. So Azura is forced into the chapter so she can talk to Takumi.

Okay, I love that support idea. That is brilliant!

[Ryo]

Okay, I love that support idea. That is brilliant!

It's good on paper but gameplay-wise it wouldn't be very convenient if one wants to build supports with the locked characters first. Take Charlotte for example, there's no reason why she cannot support Benny from the get-go. Not to mention it would take a while for her to reach A-rank with Leo or Xander.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Ryo

[solrocknroll]

It's good on paper but gameplay-wise it wouldn't be very convenient if one wants to build supports with the locked characters first. Take Charlotte for example, there's no reason why she cannot support Benny from the get-go. Not to mention it would take a while for her to reach A-rank with Leo or Xander.

The supports idea is pretty terrible ngl.

What if you want to use a character but not those catalysts? That character is locked out of all their other supports for no teasons.

It's also needlessly tedious, because grtting to A in this game isn't a super easy process. Leo and Charlotte don't even care about need each other for Pair-Up purposes, so that's inconvenient.

I think most supports now are fine, people just expect too much from basic conversations. And when the game tries to go into other topics like food, people complain. Learning a character's favorite food means more than having them pointlessly develop forever.

[NekoKnight]

Yeah, I can't really agree with locking supports until other characters get them first. It's too restrictive to make players use and support characters in a specific sequence just to make a continuous character arc. There isn't really a way to preserve significant character growth for supports so they should instead focus on more multifaceted characters. Rather than a character talking about their quirk and deconstructing it, have them talk to different people about different things, or at least not commit to immediate change in their character.

Although it wasn't a perfect system, Path of Radiance at least had the interesting idea of tying supports to plot progress by requiring a certain about of chapter to beat for each support.

[Jedi]

We need to have characters with limited support sets so there is actually some stronger support writing in general. Supports were much stronger when the writers didn't have to write for almost every little combination.

[MCProductions]

We need to have characters with limited support sets so there is actually some stronger support writing in general. Supports were much stronger when the writers didn't have to write for almost every little combination.

I'd disagree, limited supports make it easier to see the quality ones, but there's still plenty of gold in Awakening/Fates' supports, there's just a lot of shit to dig thru first. Honestly tho, I'm okay with limited supports so long as they don't bring back the stupid 5 convo per playthrough limit, that was so dumb.

[qwernst]

All the minor things I did not like in Awakening were improved on in Fates. Story was worse in Fates though.

[NekoKnight]

I'd disagree, limited supports make it easier to see the quality ones, but there's still plenty of gold in Awakening/Fates' supports, there's just a lot of shit to dig thru first. Honestly tho, I'm okay with limited supports so long as they don't bring back the stupid 5 convo per playthrough limit, that was so dumb.

This is a pretty significant point, though. I once made an attempt to collect every bit of world building in Fates. Several hours of reading supports later, I had completely given up as most of the supports were merely excuses for two people to talk and eventually shack up with each other. I'll read a novel's worth of good writing but I won't read a novel to find the 20 pages that aren't shit.