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Thane

The Obligatory "I have not played Gaiden" Thread

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Hello everyone.

As you are now likely aware, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia will be released to the 3DS on May 19 2017. It's a game "inspired" by/a remake of Fire Emblem Gaiden, or Fire Emblem 2, which was only released in Japan in 1992. This is a thread for people who have not played it or even maybe seen a walkthrough of it to either ask question or read up on my quick little guide that'll show you how Fire Emblem Gaiden differs greatly from other games in the series and what we might expect from this upcoming release. 

In Gaiden, you actually control two armies at the same time for a large portion of the game. One of them is Alm's, a villager living with his grandfather in a small village and the one you saw him training with in the trailer, and the other is his childhood friend Celica's, who specializes in magic. 

What separates Gaiden from many other games in the series - though some of its features have made its way into other titles as well - is a world map where you can fight enemies and actually be chased by them as well and explorable mini dungeons. In these dungeons you can also find shrines at which your units can promote to other classes, meaning you don't use items to trigger this in this game. 

Gaiden also featured a different spell and item system. The items did not break, much like in Fates, and all classes had a weak, standard weapon but could equip more advanced weapons for increased damage, or choose to wield shields or magic rings instead - all units had one item slot, and this offered a sense of customization. As for the magic, spellcasters sacrificed HP in exchange for casting spells which units learned at different levels, and they could be different offensive attacks or more utility based like summoning uncontrollable ethereal soldiers to fight alongside you.

It's difficult to say which of these elements will be making a return, but they've already confirmed exploration, so I think it's safe to say more elements will return. Remember that the sorcerer we see in the trailer doesn't actually wield a tome of any kind when casting his thunder spell, so that might mean we see a return of the spell system. 

Of course, this game will also feature a lot of things that weren't there before, such as animated cutscenes.

 

Edited by Thane

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The remake will have something that the original didn't have, and that's animated cutscenes.

I think the shrine thing will be in there.  However, soldier summon is something that past FE games had, though the summons were controllable (and slightly broken in the right hands).

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I tried Gaiden. I really did. But I couldn't do it. It's too dated for me. Hyped for the remake. So far it looks like it will be a better remake than Marth's games were.

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Just now, eclipse said:

The remake will have something that the original didn't have, and that's animated cutscenes.

I think the shrine thing will be in there.  However, soldier summon is something that past FE games had, though the summons were controllable (and slightly broken in the right hands).

I should add that, thanks!

Oh wow, I don't even remember that, aside from Izuka summoning Feral Ones. I'll fix that!

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Just now, Thane said:

I should add that, thanks!

Oh wow, I don't even remember that, aside from Izuka summoning Feral Ones. I'll fix that!

To be exact, FE8 had Summoners, and they could pull off some seriously insane strategies with their summons.  FE9 had Tanith's Reinforce, which summoned two NPC pegasus units that could be directed like other NPCs.

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The way they showed the Dungeons in the Trailer really reminded me of Naraku in SMT4 randomly saying. 

I've played and beaten Gaiden once, but that was a fair bit ago.

Edited by Jedi

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Haha, I was wondering when a thread like this would be made.

Honestly, I didn't play the original Gaiden 'cause other then a few things, it didn't look that interesting to me. Well that, and I never got the time to play it (being at the hospital and all). So I'm really happy I finally get a chance to play Gaiden! I wonder what changed and what was kept that wasn't in trailer (or might be in the next trailer).

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A couple things I saw in the trailer:

The knight "tinked" Alm and still did 1 damage, like in Gaiden.

There's a close-range archer after that. Archers in Gaiden, when equipped, had 1-5 range. Enemy phase for archers, feelsgoodman.

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13 minutes ago, Jedi said:

The way they showed the Dungeons in the Trailer really reminded me of Naraku in SMT4 randomly saying. 

I've played and beaten Gaiden once, but that was a fair bit ago.

Well, they were exposed to Atlus for awhile, so it might have rubbed off on them.

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5 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

A couple things I saw in the trailer:

The knight "tinked" Alm and still did 1 damage, like in Gaiden.

I noticed that too, but I didn't want to jump to any conclusions or complicate things in the OP; don't want to keep it cluttered for people who don't know anything about the game.

 

6 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

There's a close-range archer after that. Archers in Gaiden, when equipped, had 1-5 range. Enemy phase for archers, feelsgoodman.

Huh, I missed that one; how did they fight back in melee? In the 3DS version, I mean, did they use a special animation?

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1 minute ago, Aiddon said:

Well, they were exposed to Atlus for awhile, so it might have rubbed off on them.

Yeah, IS probably saw over the development of TMS which also had SMT like dungeons, and were like "wait we could use this for Gaiden"

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3 minutes ago, Thane said:

Huh, I missed that one; how did they fight back in melee? In the 3DS version, I mean, did they use a special animation?

In the trailer? The archer took a shot first (missing) and then the thief (edit: or is that merc lol, I haven't played 13 in ages and never played 14) playable character counterattacked with a melee sword.

Edited by Tryhard

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1 minute ago, Tryhard said:

In the trailer? The archer took a shot first (missing) and then the thief playable character counterattacked with a melee sword.

Dang, must've hyped at Serenes at that time, then. That's awesome though! 

I wonder how faithful this adaption will be. I'm really hoping we'll avoid a surprise reveal about there being children involved like in Fates, but I'm thinking the criticism towards such elements has reached them. At least, that's the impression I got with this title; I could be horribly wrong.

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1 minute ago, Thane said:

I wonder how faithful this adaption will be. I'm really hoping we'll avoid a surprise reveal about there being children involved like in Fates, but I'm thinking the criticism towards such elements has reached them. At least, that's the impression I got with this title; I could be horribly wrong.

How would that even fit in the game's plot? Unless they're reworking to be a different story from the original, they would have to come up with something even stupider than the deep realms for kids to fit in. Or take the easy way with time travel. Either way, they have to be really stupid to put it in the game without reworking the story, which on it's own would inspire an outcry against the game. So I think we're safe from that happening.

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I played the 3DS Virtual Console version relatively recently, so it should be interesting to see what changes and gets expanded upon. I personally hope mechanics such as marriage/children are not forced in, though. xD

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Gaiden was a labour of antipathy even 13 years ago when I first played it. Now, it's virtually unplayable. I have far less patience for that level of outdatedness in mechanics, UI, etc., than I did back then.

I have become that which I once detested: the "casual" who likes the new Fire Emblems because I don't have time to constantly restart levels because I lost that one shitty character that I just recruited.

Let's just say I'm excited to play a version of this game that doesn't make my head hurt.

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I played Gaiden once and could never be bothered to get past the second chapter. I really like how Snipers can attack from anywhere to point blank to five tiles away in it, and the presence of dungeons is pretty neat. I really hope it fixes some of Gaiden's more glaring flaws (i.e. atrocious map design, reusing the same few maps throughout, absolutely no playable axe units in the entire game, etc.) without feeling too different from the original.

Edited by Crystalized Silver

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I always wanted to play it but I found it confusing with the invisible arrow. I'm happy for the remake and hopefully the summoner class makes a return, I really liked it in FE8.

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I play games for their stories, so... did the original Gaiden have a good plot, or will they have to make some adjustments? The little bit revealed in the trailer seemed kinda generic RPG material, but a lot of great games have started with a simple introduction like that.

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15 minutes ago, RedRob said:

How would that even fit in the game's plot? Unless they're reworking to be a different story from the original, they would have to come up with something even stupider than the deep realms for kids to fit in. Or take the easy way with time travel. Either way, they have to be really stupid to put it in the game without reworking the story, which on it's own would inspire an outcry against the game. So I think we're safe from that happening.

The sad part is, they don't need to come up with something dumber than the Deep Realms. It's such an awful handwave that it would work just as well for Alm as it did for Corrin.

Edited by BrightBow

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3 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

I play games for their stories, so... did the original Gaiden have a good plot, or will they have to make some adjustments? The little bit revealed in the trailer seemed kinda generic RPG material, but a lot of great games have started with a simple introduction like that.

Being completely honest, because I do like Gaiden a lot, it has almost no story because it's a NES game (a bunch of text simply won't fit, lol) made by like four people. They'll have some free creative reign I think.

Edited by Tryhard

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4 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

I play games for their stories, so... did the original Gaiden have a good plot, or will they have to make some adjustments? The little bit revealed in the trailer seemed kinda generic RPG material, but a lot of great games have started with a simple introduction like that.

It's okayish, though it gets a little weird at parts.  They might try to rewrite/retcon certain things, which I would be perfectly fine with!

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If the story is pretty bland, does that mean the characters are pretty blank too? Is this a case where a Support system would beneficial?

Anyway, I'm pretty excited. The section where you see a character moving freely is interesting: I didn't know that was a feature of Gaiden!

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I'm curious to see how people will react to its format, since it's different. Although, the walk around and talk to people isn't so different from Fates, so not all the mechanics are completely foreign.

It's hard to find a decent playthrough and it's difficult to watch in the first place, so if anyone has any recommendations send them to me.

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