Origins of Mila and Duma (unmarked Endgame spoilers)

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

My point being if there were other dragons going to another continent, what makes you sure Naga would be a bigot and not give them a Falchion if they were Earth Dragons. Also there's no evidence at all that Naga expected Medeus to turn against humanity.

I already mentioned how Duma being a Divine Dragons makes less sense and the Valentian Falchion explanation in Echoes didn't need to exist. Again there's no reason why Naga would not give a Falchion just because they were Earth Dragons.

Actually there is a reason. A very simple one.

Because they were not from her Tribe. Why would Naga have anything to do with giving an Earth Dragon a weapon from her fang if the Earth and Divine Dragons had no involvement with each other in such a level until the war hit them? It makes no sense for Naga to give an Earth Dragon a weapon forged from her fang unless she really knew that dragon personally. And them being a Divine Dragon would actually make far more sense in that matter than if they were an Earth Dragon. And in fact, after a fiasco with the Earth Dragons later on, Naga would in fact be LESS willing to give an Earth Dragon her fang. 

I'm not saying that Naga didn't trust Medeus. But the fact that had Falchion be ready to be given to humans means that she was ready for any possibility of Medeus possibly going rogue or other dragons causing harm. The Falchion was meant for humans as an insurance. And Medeus did go rogue in the end. Its a good thing that he couldn't actually break the seal.

6 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

And yes, it is true that Divine Dragons are associated with Light and Divine power, they represent Sky and Heaven/Light just as Earth Dragons represent Earth and Hell/Shadow.

And then we have the orbs, that have the Star, Life, Light, Dark, and Earth that were said to be made with the Shield of Seals, so very likely they were Divine Dragon origins, and that would just mean that Divine Dragons could in fact use abilities beyond light.

14 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I wouldn't exactly that a better explanation.

I said maybe the writers could eventually give a better explanation or just disprove me. I never said my idea was better.

7 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Kaga describes Naga and their feelings towards Jugdral and Forsetti very well, all of which depict Naga as healthy and in their prime. That picture again shows Naga as young and healthy. If Kaga intended something like that, he'd show or describe it in his vivid interviews.

The picture shows Naga appearing as a young woman. Also, look at her clothes. She's covered almost everywhere except for her face. Appearing "young" doesn't mean that her life was not crippled or that her power had waned. Appearances can always be deceiving. 

Also, again, there was never any mention about Naga's condition. All that was talked about was Naga's powers being great (doesn't mean that it can't be inferred as that even if they were weaker) and how she stood in the case of involvement with Loptyr and the war. Even if Naga was weakened, her power can still be immense that she can defeat others. Its only if Naga lost or such that would have explained that. No one even made a full confirmation on how or why Naga died when she's still as you say, young. Giving her life to seal Tiki only strengthens my point that she was weakened greatly to begin with, as otherwise, Naga would never have died. 

15 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Forsetti's descriptions also state he was out of the ordinary and a worthy match for Naga, as does all the descriptions of their feud in the game.

Also based off Naga, its likely Forseti was older then her.

Its confirmed in the interview that Forseti is younger than Naga and Loptyr. Also, if he's younger, of course that would only make more sense for him to hold Naga's power in high regard. He might not even know the difference if she was weakened or not, just know how vast her power was.

In fact, again, Naga never partook the battle with Loptyr physically. It was just their vessels battling, and Naga's will wasn't planted into her tome as strongly as Loptyr's was, because its stated that she disliked interfering in the human world. So while Loptyr was in full possession of Galle, Naga wasn't completely controlling Heim, though her will likely did hold a strong influence in him.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just pointing out, but the reason Naga gave Duma a Falchion was so that in the event he and Mila degenerated, the locals of whatever place they traveled to would have the means to strike them out, because for all Naga could know, Duma and Mila could be on the other side of the planet, far away for timely intervention (of course, Duma and Mila only ended up going to the continent next-door, but it doesn't diminish Naga's concern). As it is, it doesn't matter what tribe Duma and Mila would be, because Naga's reason to give them a Falchion is only because they're dragons at all, regardless of tribe.

So Duma and Mila could've been Fire, could've Ice... heck, could've been just Flying/Wyvern tribe, and they'd still have gotten the sword.

[Salamud]

Look, we should just go with more than just Earth Dragons being able to become corrupted into demonic versions. If we're including Elibe then we have the case of Idoun being transformed from a demon dragon. 

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just pointing out, but the reason Naga gave Duma a Falchion was so that in the event he and Mila degenerated, the locals of whatever place they traveled to would have the means to strike them out, because for all Naga could know, Duma and Mila could be on the other side of the planet, far away for timely intervention (of course, Duma and Mila only ended up going to the continent next-door, but it doesn't diminish Naga's concern). As it is, it doesn't matter what tribe Duma and Mila would be, because Naga's reason to give them a Falchion is only because they're dragons at all, regardless of tribe.

So Duma and Mila could've been Fire, could've Ice... heck, could've been just Flying/Wyvern tribe, and they'd still have gotten the sword.

While that could be a potential good reason, here's why that doesn't make as much sense. Those aren't Naga's tribe. They are of a different tribe. Even if it was to safeguard humanity, how would Naga have known that there were going to be a Fire/Ice/Mage/Wyvern/Earth Dragon going to another continent in exile? And even then, why would she just give a fang to them? The matters of other tribes belongs to those tribes. Naga only got involved in the war with the Earth Dragons because they were causing havoc for the humans.

But this took place before the Earth Dragons went on a rampage. It seems weird for Naga to just butt into the matters of another Dragon Tribe, and give them something like her own fang. 

3 minutes ago, Salamud said:

Look, we should just go with more than just Earth Dragons being able to become corrupted into demonic versions. If we're including Elibe then we have the case of Idoun being transformed from a demon dragon. 

And Duma being a Divine Dragon means we have a Divine Dragon having an extreme look on humanity that got him a dark worshipper. 

Now I'm thinking about the idea that Duma and Mila weren't siblings, but lovers, and are from the Divine and Earth Dragon tribe respectively. Then we'd have a case where Mila is an Earth dragon that loves humans, and Duma a Divine dragon that is harsh towards humans. But more importantly, two rival tribes that end up essentially bitter enemies to have a case where they can love one another. XP

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

While that could be a potential good reason, here's why that doesn't make as much sense. Those aren't Naga's tribe. They are of a different tribe. Even if it was to safeguard humanity, how would Naga have known that there were going to be a Fire/Ice/Mage/Wyvern/Earth Dragon going to another continent in exile? And even then, why would she just give a fang to them? The matters of other tribes belongs to those tribes. Naga only got involved in the war with the Earth Dragons because they were causing havoc for the humans.

But this took place before the Earth Dragons went on a rampage. It seems weird for Naga to just butt into the matters of another Dragon Tribe, and give them something like her own fang. 

Well, keep in mind Duma was exiled during the Dragons' Golden Age. It's not stated there were inter-tribal hostilities or animosity, or that dragons were or not united in a single body of government. Either way, the Divines were still top of the hierarchy (if we take the in-game mechanic that Divine Dragons deal effective damage to every other tribe to a Wattsonian analysis). And why should Naga not be concerned? Is Naga not allowed to be concerned for the locals of whatever place Duma and Mila end up traveling to? It is not stated Naga had few care for other tribes. After all, instead of killing off the mindless Earth Dragons, she chose to seal them up instead. Though it's debatable if that's a better fate or not. Keep in mind Naga created the first Falchion after exiling Duma, so she already knew, because she herself had already decided on exiling Duma.

Either way, it matters little, as it's stated Duma and Mila are Divines, anyway. But the concern here is that being Divines was not the condition for being given a Falchion.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, keep in mind Duma was exiled during the Dragons' Golden Age. It's not stated there were inter-tribal hostilities or animosity, or that dragons were or not united in a single body of government. Either way, the Divines were still top of the hierarchy (if we take the in-game mechanic that Divine Dragons deal effective damage to every other tribe to a Wattsonian analysis). And why should Naga not be concerned? Is Naga not allowed to be concerned for the locals of whatever place Duma and Mila end up traveling to? It is not stated Naga had few care for other tribes. After all, instead of killing off the mindless Earth Dragons, she chose to seal them up instead. Though it's debatable if that's a better fate or not. Keep in mind Naga created the first Falchion after exiling Duma, so she already knew, because she herself had already decided on exiling Duma.

The Divine Dragons were the strongest race, but they weren't technically the ruler of all dragons, as each tribe still functioned as its own society, thus why we saw that Earth Dragons had their own hierarchy. Its not uncommon for there to be some conflict, but issues with tribes tend to stay with that tribe unless the other tribes are forced to get involved. For Duma and Mila to be exiled from another tribe, but getting Naga's fang would require Naga to get involved with their issue for some reason, which would be tough to really reason with. 

Naga can be concerned, but to go as far as to hand them her fang still wouldn't make sense unless she had some trust in them. Remember that the Valentian Falchion is said to only work for those bound through Duma's bloodline, thus the Rigelian royal family, which is why Alm can wield it. If these were dragons she didn't even know, or by all means seemed like they would harm the humans, she'd likely have done something else. 

But by them being Divine Dragons, Naga knew Duma and Mila more, even on a personal level given by how Duma and Naga have been said to argue for centuries, so Naga would trust Duma enough to give him her fang cause she'd know that he had a decent heart, but was simply misguided. So then she was sure that Duma would link the bloodline with her fang and thus a human could eventually have the potential to stop them. 

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

The Divine Dragons were the strongest race, but they weren't technically the ruler of all dragons, as each tribe still functioned as its own society, thus why we saw that Earth Dragons had their own hierarchy. Its not uncommon for there to be some conflict, but issues with tribes tend to stay with that tribe unless the other tribes are forced to get involved. For Duma and Mila to be exiled from another tribe, but getting Naga's fang would require Naga to get involved with their issue for some reason, which would be tough to really reason with. 

Naga can be concerned, but to go as far as to hand them her fang still wouldn't make sense unless she had some trust in them. Remember that the Valentian Falchion is said to only work for those bound through Duma's bloodline, thus the Rigelian royal family, which is why Alm can wield it. If these were dragons she didn't even know, or by all means seemed like they would harm the humans, she'd likely have done something else. 

But by them being Divine Dragons, Naga knew Duma and Mila more, even on a personal level given by how Duma and Naga have been said to argue for centuries, so Naga would trust Duma enough to give him her fang cause she'd know that he had a decent heart, but was simply misguided. So then she was sure that Duma would link the bloodline with her fang and thus a human could eventually have the potential to stop them. 

That's the thing. We don't know enough of the Golden Age. Maybe the tribes were really just minding their own business. Maybe they worked like, for example, the 50 states of the USA, who can do stuff on their own without caring for another state, but in others have to refer to Washington DC's word (don't vouch me much here on this, not exactly well versed on how the American political structure works). Either way, it was Duma who approached Naga; first to debate, then argue, then they actually fought each other. So by that point, it would matter little what tribe Duma was.

Keep in mind the Falchion was not for Duma and Mila's benefit, it was for whoever lived where the dragons would move into. The whole bloodline thing was something Duma himself did, not what Naga intended. Naga probably didn't place a restriction so anyone could use it to fight a degenerated Duma and/or Mila. But since Duma and Mila had turned Valentia into a full-blown FOR SCIENCE experiment, stuff like tying the Falchion to bloodline was already decisions made by them, not Naga.

Not being of the same tribe doesn't exclude inter-tribal friendships. So Naga knowing and trusting Duma is not a situation that requires them to be of the same tribe. But well, it's moot debating that point, we know they were of the same tribe.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

That's the thing. We don't know enough of the Golden Age. Maybe the tribes were really just minding their own business. Maybe they worked like, for example, the 50 states of the USA, who can do stuff on their own without caring for another state, but in others have to refer to Washington DC's word (don't vouch me much here on this, not exactly well versed on how the American political structure works). Either way, it was Duma who approached Naga; first to debate, then argue, then they actually fought each other. So by that point, it would matter little what tribe Duma was.

Keep in mind the Falchion was not for Duma and Mila's benefit, it was for whoever lived where the dragons would move into. The whole bloodline thing was something Duma himself did, not what Naga intended. Naga probably didn't place a restriction so anyone could use it to fight a degenerated Duma and/or Mila. But since Duma and Mila had turned Valentia into a full-blown FOR SCIENCE experiment, stuff like tying the Falchion to bloodline was already decisions made by them, not Naga.

Not being of the same tribe doesn't exclude inter-tribal friendships. So Naga knowing and trusting Duma is not a situation that requires them to be of the same tribe. But well, it's moot debating that point, we know they were of the same tribe.

I'll give you that. We really didn't learn all we could about the Golden Age, the same with the Elibe series' Scouring. Its unlikely we'll have a game actually revolve around it. Maybe some DLC that has it, but never an entire story. However, given the way the tribes worked, and the fact that they had royalty among them, or at the very least the Divine and Earth Dragon did, its unlikely that they would meet each other so often. Duma would have to have had a high position to approach Naga, but to be exiled would mean he couldn't have been too high perhaps. 

But that's where things begin to be stranger. In both Awakening and Shadow Dragon, its mentioned that Falchion is always tied to their bloodline. However, that would mean the Archanean Falchion was also tied to the bloodlines. That would indicate that Naga knew of how blood pacts and such worked. 

That's a good point. Its already confirmed at this point that the concept of Duma and Mila being possibly true gods is retconned to them being dragons, and more specifically Divine Dragons. And just like that, the divide of the fanbase has commenced, with people that played Gaiden calling Echoes as a huge retcon, and newer fans retaliating. 

Its like people are born to argue. So much for the hope that Echoes could help bridge the gap. It seems like we'll just seek for more ways to divide ourselves. 

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I'll give you that. We really didn't learn all we could about the Golden Age, the same with the Elibe series' Scouring. Its unlikely we'll have a game actually revolve around it. Maybe some DLC that has it, but never an entire story. However, given the way the tribes worked, and the fact that they had royalty among them, or at the very least the Divine and Earth Dragon did, its unlikely that they would meet each other so often. Duma would have to have had a high position to approach Naga, but to be exiled would mean he couldn't have been too high perhaps. 

But that's where things begin to be stranger. In both Awakening and Shadow Dragon, its mentioned that Falchion is always tied to their bloodline. However, that would mean the Archanean Falchion was also tied to the bloodlines. That would indicate that Naga knew of how blood pacts and such worked. 

That's a good point. Its already confirmed at this point that the concept of Duma and Mila being possibly true gods is retconned to them being dragons, and more specifically Divine Dragons. And just like that, the divide of the fanbase has commenced, with people that played Gaiden calling Echoes as a huge retcon, and newer fans retaliating. 

Its like people are born to argue. So much for the hope that Echoes could help bridge the gap. It seems like we'll just seek for more ways to divide ourselves. 

Yeah, it's a shame. Although I would bring up that even if the tribes had leaders of their own, they could have the same function in Dragon society as, say, a State Governor has. And would still have to refer to a higher authority (for a State Governor, it's the President; for a Dragon King, it would be a... High King? King of Kings? Yeah, the lack of information would strike again...)

Actually, there is a big gap of time between the second Falchion's creation, and Anri obtaining it. In fact, Naga had already died long before Anri's time. So unless Naga had the forsight of tying the second Falchion to a bloodline that wouldn't use the sword until centuries later, then it shows, alongside the first Falchion, that Naga at first didn't had in mind the whole bloodlines thing. She was just creating swords to fight dragons without a restriction, which makes sense, since restricting use would be detrimental to the purpose Naga created them. In fact, it seems the only time she ever did the blood magic thing was with Heim. Best I understand from readung up.

Yeah, that's also a shame. Our history is so full of that. But if it's any consolation, the opposite is also true, so I wouldn't consider our whole situation as completely hopeless.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, it's a shame. Although I would bring up that even if the tribes had leaders of their own, they could have the same function in Dragon society as, say, a State Governor has. And would still have to refer to a higher authority (for a State Governor, it's the President; for a Dragon King, it would be a... High King? King of Kings? Yeah, the lack of information would strike again...)

Middle ages, bro. XD

Keep the times at least similar here in mind. 

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Actually, there is a big gap of time between the second Falchion's creation, and Anri obtaining it. In fact, Naga had already died long before Anri's time. So unless Naga had the forsight of tying the second Falchion to a bloodline that wouldn't use the words until centuries later, then it shows, alongside the first Falchion, that Naga at first didn't had in mind the whole bloodlines thing. She was just creating swords to fight dragons without a restriction, which makes sense, since restricting use would be detrimental to the purpose Naga created them. In fact, it seems the only time she ever did the blood magic thing was with Heim. Best I understand from readung up.

That's actually what I've been wondering about as well. Shadow Dragon claims that Marth is the only one left of Anri's bloodline to wield the Falchion. But here's the thing. Marth isn't a DIRECT descendent of Anri. He's descended from Anri's BROTHER. Anri loved Artemis and died childless because he couldn't have her, due to the circumstances of their positions. So I'm wondering exactly when and HOW Marth's bloodline got tied down. 

Nowadays, I've noticed that the bloodline elements from Genealogy is getting placed into multiple cases. 

We're missing so many facts and information here. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Middle ages, bro. XD

Keep the times at least similar here in mind. 

That's actually what I've been wondering about as well. Shadow Dragon claims that Marth is the only one left of Anri's bloodline to wield the Falchion. But here's the thing. Marth isn't a DIRECT descendent of Anri. He's descended from Anri's BROTHER. Anri loved Artemis and died childless because he couldn't have her, due to the circumstances of their positions. So I'm wondering exactly when and HOW Marth's bloodline got tied down. 

Nowadays, I've noticed that the bloodline elements from Genealogy is getting placed into multiple cases. 

We're missing so many facts and information here. 

Well, I'd say that being a work of fiction, the writers aren't above putting something like a modern system in place. But then again, even back then, there had to be a hierarchy to follow, and structures and systems in place. The system isn't exactly new.

Well, considering the whole thing involved magic, it's hard to say. Maybe it could apply retroactively, or to the bloodline in general. Or maybe Anri's brother was involved in the whole blood binding, or a separate one was done for him. It's hard to say, we lack info on that. One thing though, in that case, is that it's definitely different from the Jugdrali bloodlines, as shown with King Shaggal being Hezul's direct descendant, but not having holy blood since only Hezul's youngest daughter, who married into Nodion's family, was the only one who gained holy blood of Hezul's children. Or Dain and Nova, being siblings, their descendants can only use one lance, not both. Yeah.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, I'd say that being a work of fiction, the writers aren't above putting something like a modern system in place. But then again, even back then, there had to be a hierarchy to follow, and structures and systems in place. The system isn't exactly new.

Well, considering the whole thing involved magic, it's hard to say. Maybe it could apply retroactively, or to the bloodline in general. Or maybe Anri's brother was involved in the whole blood binding, or a separate one was done for him. It's hard to say, we lack info on that. One thing though, in that case, is that it's definitely different from the Jugdrali bloodlines, as shown with King Shaggal being Hezul's direct descendant, but not having holy blood since only Hezul's youngest daughter, who married into Nodion's family, was the only one who gained holy blood of Hezul's children. Or Dain and Nova, being siblings, their descendants can only use one lance, not both. Yeah.

True. Potentially it could have functioned in a similar manner to how you say. 

Yes and no. Cause as we've seen it, Lucina mentioned that Falchion does function with the bloodline, but is just picky on its wielder, as you could be of the bloodline, but still not be able to wield it. Lucina tried to give her younger sibling that chance to see, but its shown at first that nothing was done, but then its revealed that they do have the power to wield Falchion. I think the way the blood pacts worked functioned differently with Falchion than the other cases. 

Also, if both Anri and his brother got the pact, then it would make sense, but from what we know, only Anri went through the journey to retrieve Falchion. Unless the blood pact magically affects EVERYONE related to them. 

Well, guess we can expect more remakes to come our way eventually. 

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

True. Potentially it could have functioned in a similar manner to how you say. 

Yes and no. Cause as we've seen it, Lucina mentioned that Falchion does function with the bloodline, but is just picky on its wielder, as you could be of the bloodline, but still not be able to wield it. Lucina tried to give her younger sibling that chance to see, but its shown at first that nothing was done, but then its revealed that they do have the power to wield Falchion. I think the way the blood pacts worked functioned differently with Falchion than the other cases. 

Also, if both Anri and his brother got the pact, then it would make sense, but from what we know, only Anri went through the journey to retrieve Falchion. Unless the blood pact magically affects EVERYONE related to them. 

Well, guess we can expect more remakes to come our way eventually. 

Well, keep in mind that the Archanean Falchion went through a new blood binding pact with the First Exalt. So that already states rules will be different (or not, but it seems some things were changed) compared to how it was before the First Exalt.

Well, is it stated Anri made his journey alone? I could probably go check, but just in case he wasn't alone, perhaps there is a plausible chance his brother went with him or something... but yeah, making it so it applies to relatives already alive and not directly descendant of the recipient could be a possiblity. Since magic and all that.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, keep in mind that the Archanean Falchion went through a new blood binding pact with the First Exalt. So that already states rules will be different compared to how it was before the First Exalt.

Yes, 1000 years after Shadow Dragon, Marth's descendent ended up forging a new pact with the new Naga, taking a spiritual form, and defeat Grima. 

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, is it stated Anri made his journey alone? I could probably go check, but just in case he wasn't alone, perhaps there is a plausible chance his brother went with him or something... but yeah, making it so it applies to relatives already alive and not directly descendant of the recipient could be a possiblity. Since magic and all that.

That would be interesting. Everything is starting to be tied to bloodlines now, so it wouldn't surprise me at this point. Also, yes, I believe it was stated, especially in New Mystery of the Emblem that Anri made the journey alone. How he forged a blood pact, its unknown. Maybe with Nagi? 

[RJWalker]

Anri didn't forge any blood pact. He met Gotoh at the Ice Dragon Shrine but no mention of any blood pact is made, not even in the remakes.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Yes, 1000 years after Shadow Dragon, Marth's descendent ended up forging a new pact with the new Naga, taking a spiritual form, and defeat Grima. 

That would be interesting. Everything is starting to be tied to bloodlines now, so it wouldn't surprise me at this point. Also, yes, I believe it was stated, especially in New Mystery of the Emblem that Anri made the journey alone. How he forged a blood pact, its unknown. Maybe with Nagi? 

Yeah, I checked, and it is stated in Ch11. Anyway, I'm not sure it would be Nagi. Even discounting that she didn't exist when the lore was first created. Maybe it was Gotoh. I would not doubt he could have the power; he is quite powerful, even without his dragonstone. So it could be possible he was the one who binded the Falchion to Anri's bloodline. It's not really stated that blood binding is only restricted to the dragon who does it. Or maybe since the Falchion is not just some object, but an actual body part of Naga (a fang), then it was possible, or something. Ah, it's all conjecture, unfortunately.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Ranger Jack Walker said:

Anri didn't forge any blood pact. He met Gotoh at the Ice Dragon Shrine but no mention of any blood pact is made, not even in the remakes.

Yes, I am very aware of that. But remember that it was mentioned in Shadow Dragon that only of Anri's bloodline for some reason can wield Falchion, and Marth, despite being an indirect descendent, can wield it. And now with Echoes, Falchion is wielded by Duma's bloodline through the Rigelian royal line.

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, I checked, and it is stated in Ch11. Anyway, I'm not sure it would be Nagi. Even discounting that she didn't exist when the lore was first created. Maybe it was Gotoh. I would not doubt he could have the power; he is quite powerful, even without his dragonstone. So it could be possible he was the one who binded the Falchion to Anri's bloodline. It's not really stated that blood binding is only restricted to the dragon who does it. Or maybe since the Falchion is not just some object, but an actual body part of Naga (a fang), then it was possible, or something. Ah, it's all conjecture, unfortunately.

So much confusion. So little answer.

[RJWalker]

Anri's strength of will alone was enough to wield Falchion. He did not forge any blood pact. Marth doesn't even have a brand of any sort. Marth can wield it because he's basically the 'Chosen One', not by any blood pact. We're not going to get any explanation for it. That's just how it is. Even after Kaga made the Jugdral games were made and the concept of brands was introduced, Kaga never alluded to Anri or Marth having any sort of brand nor did IS add that in the remakes even though they could have.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

Anri's strength of will alone was enough to wield Falchion. He did not forge any blood pact. Marth doesn't even have a brand of any sort. Marth can wield it because he's basically the 'Chosen One', not by any blood pact. We're not going to get any explanation for it. That's just how it is. Even after Kaga made the Jugdral games were made and the concept of brands was introduced, Kaga never alluded to Anri or Marth having any sort of brand nor did IS add that in the remakes even though they could have.

I am aware of that. In fact, I think there was no blood pact originally. But what Malledus says seems strange to me:

“You are Anri’s last male descendant, the only one who can wield Falchion. You must find the blade that was taken, and put an end to Doluna and its misguided Manakete rulers.”

Its like he's saying that no one BUT Marth can wield it, and the game even goes to show that only Marth can use it. Its only by Awakening's time that its mentioned that now its for real that only of the Exalted Bloodline can wield it.

[Acacia Sgt]

17 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

Anri's strength of will alone was enough to wield Falchion. He did not forge any blood pact. Marth doesn't even have a brand of any sort. Marth can wield it because he's basically the 'Chosen One', not by any blood pact. We're not going to get any explanation for it. That's just how it is. Even after Kaga made the Jugdral games were made and the concept of brands was introduced, Kaga never alluded to Anri or Marth having any sort of brand nor did IS add that in the remakes even though they could have.

13 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I am aware of that. In fact, I think there was no blood pact originally. But what Malledus says seems strange to me:

“You are Anri’s last male descendant, the only one who can wield Falchion. You must find the blade that was taken, and put an end to Doluna and its misguided Manakete rulers.”

Its like he's saying that no one BUT Marth can wield it, and the game even goes to show that only Marth can use it. Its only by Awakening's time that its mentioned that now its for real that only of the Exalted Bloodline can wield it.

For the record, localization added the "male" bit, but there's no doubt that the Falchion was tied to Anri's bloodline, even back then before the remakes and stuff. Heck, Marth's father was wielding it when Gra backstabbed him, since he brought it with him with the intent to fight Medeus himself. Unless you tell me he did something to deserve weilding it, then it stands more reason it is due to bloodline that he could wield it.

[Emperor Hardin]

7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Actually there is a reason. A very simple one.

Because they were not from her Tribe. Why would Naga have anything to do with giving an Earth Dragon a weapon from her fang if the Earth and Divine Dragons had no involvement with each other in such a level until the war hit them? It makes no sense for Naga to give an Earth Dragon a weapon forged from her fang unless she really knew that dragon personally. And them being a Divine Dragon would actually make far more sense in that matter than if they were an Earth Dragon. And in fact, after a fiasco with the Earth Dragons later on, Naga would in fact be LESS willing to give an Earth Dragon her fang. 

I'm not saying that Naga didn't trust Medeus. But the fact that had Falchion be ready to be given to humans means that she was ready for any possibility of Medeus possibly going rogue or other dragons causing harm. The Falchion was meant for humans as an insurance. And Medeus did go rogue in the end. Its a good thing that he couldn't actually break the seal.

And then we have the orbs, that have the Star, Life, Light, Dark, and Earth that were said to be made with the Shield of Seals, so very likely they were Divine Dragon origins, and that would just mean that Divine Dragons could in fact use abilities beyond light.

I said maybe the writers could eventually give a better explanation or just disprove me. I never said my idea was better.

The picture shows Naga appearing as a young woman. Also, look at her clothes. She's covered almost everywhere except for her face. Appearing "young" doesn't mean that her life was not crippled or that her power had waned. Appearances can always be deceiving. 

Also, again, there was never any mention about Naga's condition. All that was talked about was Naga's powers being great (doesn't mean that it can't be inferred as that even if they were weaker) and how she stood in the case of involvement with Loptyr and the war. Even if Naga was weakened, her power can still be immense that she can defeat others. Its only if Naga lost or such that would have explained that. No one even made a full confirmation on how or why Naga died when she's still as you say, young. Giving her life to seal Tiki only strengthens my point that she was weakened greatly to begin with, as otherwise, Naga would never have died. 

Its confirmed in the interview that Forseti is younger than Naga and Loptyr. Also, if he's younger, of course that would only make more sense for him to hold Naga's power in high regard. He might not even know the difference if she was weakened or not, just know how vast her power was.

In fact, again, Naga never partook the battle with Loptyr physically. It was just their vessels battling, and Naga's will wasn't planted into her tome as strongly as Loptyr's was, because its stated that she disliked interfering in the human world. So while Loptyr was in full possession of Galle, Naga wasn't completely controlling Heim, though her will likely did hold a strong influence in him.

So you're saying Naga would do nothing and let the humans of Valentia be killed solely out of selfish bigoted pride? Thats quite a claim.

The Falchion was made to protect from Feral Dragons not Medeus. Again, Naga knowing Medeus would go rogue is completely contradictory to the established story.

Citation needed about them being solely of Divine dragon origin. All thats said is the few remaining ones were guarding them. Again, there's zero proof whatsoever they have powers outside of light and sky.

Fire Emblem knows how to draw sickly people, if they wanted Naga to appear weak or ill, it'd be apparent. Kaga is quite descriptive of Naga in the miracle of Darna, there's zero indication Naga was weak and such a thing would be a blatant retcon.

She was weakened afterwards because she had just fought Loptyr after traveling to Jugdral.

Forsetti specifically describes the Naga tome as their only hope, Naga included. There's zero indication that Naga put less power into the tome then Loptous. Kaga described Loptyr as transfering his will just like Naga's tome, Naga's tome, Forseti's, and Loptyr's tome are all exactly the same.

Again, why are you so insistent on downplaying Loptyr and demeaning Jugdral by constantly claiming Loptyr was not Naga's equal?

[RJWalker]

I don't even know where this idea that Naga was weakened came from. It has zero basis in fact.

[omegaxis1]

42 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

So you're saying Naga would do nothing and let the humans of Valentia be killed solely out of selfish bigoted pride? Thats quite a claim.

Would she have KNOWN that they were exiled if she didn't know them or if they were in a different clan? Different clans have their own rules and other clans can't exactly come in and say that that can't happen. If Earth Dragons banished them, that's their business. Naga would not just hand over Falchion to Duma cause of that. If anything, she'd have taken another measure if she learned them being a potential harm. She wouldn't go up to them and say, "Hey, I don't really know you, but take this sacred weapon forged from my fang. It'll help the humans take you down if the need ever arises." 

And before you say they could have known each other, I wanna ask, exactly why and how, if they were from different tribes? 

42 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The Falchion was made to protect from Feral Dragons not Medeus. Again, Naga knowing Medeus would go rogue is completely contradictory to the established story.

I'm just throwing a possible theory here. For all we know, Naga could suspect the chances of Medeus going rogue. He's an Earth Dragon, and the Divine Dragons just sealed his entire tribe away. You're saying that Naga would not even consider the possibility that Medeus would hold a grudge? Its his family and possibly friends that were banished away in a prison. 

But this is just a theory. We don't even know the original Naga was, nor have we ever seen the original Naga completely. Maybe she did have full trust in Medeus and didn't suspect him of anything, and made Falchion for Archanea only for insurance if Medeus wasn't enough to guard the seal.

42 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Citation needed about them being solely of Divine dragon origin. All thats said is the few remaining ones were guarding them. Again, there's zero proof whatsoever they have powers outside of light and sky.

The very fact that they go into the Shield of Seals, made by Naga herself, that combines the energy of the orbs to function as a seal should in itself be evidence to it. And I started looking through some dialogue, and it was being said that the orbs were made alongside the shield, which only adds more that it was the Divine Dragons that made them. In fact, this would also add to the fact that the Divine Dragons went near extinct, if they expended their own power to forge those orbs. 

Also, just as you claim they aren't Divine Dragon origin, you can't prove it yourself. However, with Echoes now retconning gods to dragons, confirming Duma and Mila into Divine Dragons, and them possessing dark and earth powers and the like, my side of the argument is just strengthened at this point and at this point, and pretty much confirming the Divine Dragons are most certainly NOT limited to just light elemental powers. 

That's the canon now. It was theorized before, its confirmed now. 

42 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Fire Emblem knows how to draw sickly people, if they wanted Naga to appear weak or ill, it'd be apparent. Kaga is quite descriptive of Naga in the miracle of Darna, there's zero indication Naga was weak and such a thing would be a blatant retcon.

Its not whether she was strong or weak. Its whether she was weakENED that's the question. If she lost, there would have been mention that Naga was not as strong as before, but she won, so of course they would not delve, but in fact, the very fact that Naga died after sealing Tiki just adds to the fact that she was weakened. 

42 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

She was weakened afterwards because she had just fought Loptyr after traveling to Jugdral.

Again, Naga never directly FOUGHT Loptyr. She used Heim to do it, rather than actually fighting Loptyr's vessel herself. 

Also, you're saying that it took just Loptyr alone to weaken her so badly that it crippled her and the war did nothing? That's a bold claim if anything. 

42 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Forsetti specifically describes the Naga tome as their only hope, Naga included. There's zero indication that Naga put less power into the tome then Loptous. Kaga described Loptyr as transfering his will just like Naga's tome, Naga's tome, Forseti's, and Loptyr's tome are all exactly the same.

Again, why are you so insistent on downplaying Loptyr and demeaning Jugdral by constantly claiming Loptyr was not Naga's equal?

"Loputousu, Narga and Holsety held different positions compared to the other dragons. Loputousu’s plan was obvious – “to use Bishop Galle to wreak vengeance on the humans”, which is why he formed a blood pact with Galle. The holy dark tome Loputousu contained Loputousu’s overpowering hatred and resentment towards humans, and was able to control the human who broke its seal (namely Bishop Galle’s descendants, those who inherited large amounts of the original pact-former’s blood). So it was, a human who possessed Loputousu’s strength and will was born. (The final boss of Genealogy of the Holy War was his victim.) In resistance, Narga gave the holy light tome, which he transferred his own will and power into, to Saint Heim. For Narga, who had always disliked interfering with the human world, this was a very worrying decision."

^ That's a mention about the question in the interview regarding Naga's role in the matter with Loptyr and the Holy Weapons. 

Also, think about this clearly. Loptyr completely possesses the person and uses them as a host, turning them evil and such. Naga's will is in the tome, but by no means would she ever control the person. But if her will was implanted into her tome so strongly as Loptyr's, her will WOULD control the human. So the fact that Heim and his descendents don't get possessed by Naga's will is because Naga's desire to not control them made her tome containing her powers and will to be less than how much Loptyr put in, which was everything. 

As for why I insist on this argument that you do not want to accept and I could very well be wrong in, its because like I said before, its my theory that I base around using logic and information. Why do you want to deny it so badly that Naga and Loptyr may not be equals at all? 

Just now, Ranger Jack Walker said:

I don't even know where this idea that Naga was weakened came from. It has zero basis in fact.

It came from me. Using the logic of the wars that happened, the circumstances, the time of death, and so on, its a theory that, while not airtight, holds plenty of water. 

[RJWalker]

No, it would hold water if it was ever suggested that Naga was affected negatively by the battles. There is literally nothing in the game to suggest that Naga was weakened or crippled or whatever.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

No, it would hold water if it was ever suggested that Naga was affected negatively by the battles. There is literally nothing in the game to suggest that Naga was weakened or crippled or whatever.

The very proof is what Xane said regarding Naga's death. After sealing Tiki away, Naga just dies? Why? 

Naga couldn't have died to just seal away her daughter in slumber. Tiki was merely an infant. Naga's power at that point was far stronger than Tiki's, even if Tiki had potential to surpass Naga later on in life. So how could Naga had just died? 

Suicide? That's crazy talk. Naga had no reason to just kill herself. 

Exhaustion from Loptyr? You expect to believe that Naga exhausted herself facing a SINGLE Earth Dragon, not even directly, but rather through a magic tome that contained her power and will, but she was unscathed by an entire WAR against the ENTIRE Earth Dragon Tribe? 

Follow the logic here. The war HAD to have taken its toll on Naga. It makes absolutely no sense for Naga to die at the age of merely 5000 years.