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Leonarth

Thabes Labyrinth - Stupidly Broken?

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Anyone who's beaten the game and has gotten to Act 6 probably knows about the Thabes Labyrinth. Just a question, has anyone who plays on Hard/Classic gotten to the end? I'm on the 8th floor (I think there's 10 total), but the enemy stats are so ridiculous that no one on my team can withstand more than a round or two of combat, and I just got screwed hard with 3 groups at once. There are 4 fire dragons and a shit ton of other enemy types. I know this is supposed to be the penultimate dungeon, with the whole point of it being stupidly hard, but this isn't even fair or funny at this point. We're talking enemies with stats being around 25-35 on average, meaning that anyone who wasn't subject to the Dread Fighter grinding cycle or someone who got stupidly lucky with their level-ups have 0 chance of surviving. I'm starting to think the best thing to do at this point is just run past everything in a perfect run and pray to whatever deity you believe in that you don't get stuck in combat.

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Floor 8 is when you're supposed to start dodging enemies entirely. Floors 6 or 7 if you want to be safe about it.

Although Floor 9 is a pretty tight fit, so you have to maneuver quite carefully to not get caught by every enemy in a single encounter... or get caught in general.

Yes, I've done this on Hard/Classic. I never touched Normal, for what it's worth.

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1 minute ago, Soledai said:

Floor 8 is when you're supposed to start dodging enemies entirely. Floors 6 or 7 if you want to be safe about it.

Yeah, I was starting to do that in the interest of time, made one mistake, and hour's worth of work down the drain. I think I'll beat it once and then ignore it in future runs.

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Yes, the entire thing is super unfair, and probably on purpose.

The 7th and 8th floors become pretty ridiculous. When I came out of endgame, my units were generally sitting at Tier 3 level 12 or so, but the entire dungeon took me about three runs (including a lot of resets), such that when I finally was able to beat it everyone was at level 17. And even then, I could only barely scrape through Floor 8 fights, while Floor 9 was basically impossible unless I get lucky and only bump into one set of enemies every time.

If you ever get caught on Floor 9, just turtle until you can retreat; the enemies all despawn.

By the way, there's an unavoidable fight on the 9th floor against like, 8 dragons, if you want to get to the Lion Wells behind them.

Then once you reach the final boss of the dungeon, unless your units are maxed out, expect to funnel upwards of four people to gang up on one enemy, especially Villagers and Dread Fighters. Also, I won't tell you what exactly goes on in said fight, but don't waste any of your Turnwheel uses prior to this, because depending on your luck with the reinforcement pattern, the situation can become unwinnable without deaths no matter who you bring, unless you grinded a lot.

The whole thing might just be to sell the Overclasses, honestly.

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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Thabes is ridiculously and stupidly unfair and broken.  I've had my fair share of frustrations with it, like not intending to run into an enemy where it's a horde of Terrors with 43 Attack.  You know something is wrong if Lukas' Defense isn't enough to fend off these monsters. xP

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I saw the stats from B6 and immediately evacuated to grind XD

After grinding, it's easy but that's to be expected.

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Thabes is basically an assassination on your team if you aren't prepared. This is the game's rude awakening heh towards players going in blind. I would max out some of my units if I were you. (I also think that overclass may make this labyrinth a breeze but those are just my thoughts.) 

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Thabes is 100% home-grown BS, yes. In a lot of ways, Thabes is some of the worst parts of FE BS difficulty--asshole reinforcements, stat inflation, and status effect spam--rolled into one, with a healthy topping of dungeon crawler BS (narrow corridors, awful run controls) too. It really wouldn't surprise me if Thabes was indeed meant to encourage the Overclasses.

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4 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

It really wouldn't surprise me if Thabes was indeed meant to encourage the Overclasses.

And the grinding DLC. There's little doubt in my mind that's why there's a sudden difficulty spike - hell, it'd argue it's not even a difficulty so much as it is deliberate stat inflation and purposefully not giving you Mila Statues. I mean you've got no DLC challenge maps to farm for, so it's only really for chapter six unless you need some extra help, but even then farming is already in the base game.

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I feel like thabes is like a nightmare for people who rush through the game. Whereas the last boss fight against Duma can be done without grinding. The same might not be true for Thabes. The jacked up stats basically become a curve to say that you need x amount of stats or x amount of forged gear. Either way you're going to have to grind something. That in of itself can be frustrating for most people and I get where they're coming from. I wouldn't say it's a design flaw persay but it's a much different way of thinking.

 

To me it's really not a big deal, i started actually taking my sweet time after mid chapter 3ish. Because i want to see the affects of villager fork and overclass dlc etc. 

That being said it definitely feels like a case of artificial difficulty, and grinding is sort of required for a decent experience.

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So I've recently beaten the dungeon and the Grima fight as well. I can say that grinding isn't 100% necessary to beat the Labyrinth, but it's much harder if you don't. I had gotten lucky with my Dread Fighter Kliff with an absurd 39 Skill and 41 Spd with 35 Def. It seems like the best way to tackle it is to skip the random encounters and grab any treasures you want on the way. Once you hit Grima, if you decide to try it, you need some absurd luck with your RNG to successfully beat it. I had Kliff dodging 51% hits left and right and getting crit after crit. Once Grima was down to about 70 or so HP then I sent in Alm on the next player phase, got him to crit with the Falchion and also get a follow-up attack. Kliff did the same, 5 HP left on Grima, had to Warp Celica to finish it and hope that she could finish it (Grima was considered a god, and Duma was specific about who could kill him) and the euphoria from her landing the killing blow was immense.

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*Enters labyrinth*

This isn't so bad.

*Gets to floor 5. Gets rekt by the Fire Dragon battle*

*Cries because there wasn't any save points*

*Cries harder because there were only two enemies left but Alm had to get killed by that Priestess*

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I don't think it's "literal BS" but it does get difficult. I pretty much waited to promote my units until they were level 20 and I did grind to level 12-20 on my third-tier classed characters, so it wasn't the worse thing in the world. Honestly, waiting to promote was the best decision I could've made lmao.

If you want a tank unit, just do the dreadfighter-villager loop on your mercenary characters. I maxed out HP, ATK, SKL, SPD and DEF on my Saber doing that lol. It certainly helps. Pretty much as long as you're prepared, it's not that bad. Do mind your characters with low HP and Def/Res though.

I'm playing on Hard/Classic and so far the only game over I've gotten was from a 4% crit on my Celica by a red dragon lol. In other words, bad luck.

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37 minutes ago, Leonarth said:

my Dread Fighter Kliff with an absurd 39 Skill and 41 Spd with 35 Def.

I mean, if you hit those benchmarks, that means you already grinded. On a 100% growth rate game and promoting ASAP, Kliff's still going to only have 26 Spd. You were way above the curve.

11 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

I don't think it's "literal BS" but it does get difficult. I pretty much waited to promote my units until they were level 20 and I did grind to level 12-20 on my third-tier classed characters, so it wasn't the worse thing in the world. Honestly, waiting to promote was the best decision I could've made lmao.

If you want a tank unit, just do the dreadfighter-villager loop on your mercenary characters. I maxed out HP, ATK, SKL, SPD and DEF on my Saber doing that lol. It certainly helps. Pretty much as long as you're prepared, it's not that bad. Do mind your characters with low HP and Def/Res though.

I'm playing on Hard/Classic and so far the only game over I've gotten was from a 4% crit on my Celica by a red dragon lol. In other words, bad luck.

For a regular team coming out of postgame, it's extremely unfair, but it becomes beatable once your endgame units reach about level 17 on a promote asap run.

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Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

For a regular team coming out of postgame, it's extremely unfair, but it becomes beatable once your endgame units reach about level 17 on a promote asap run.

Oh, I don't doubt that at all. Grinding is most definitely required for a normal playthrough.

Though might I ask, why do most people promote ASAP? I mean, I know you get those stat increases, but I feel like it'd be better just to wait anyways due to the potential of other stat gains/more stat gains. Or is it more for class abilities and movement increases? Or am I just weird lol.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the Cipher OCs have great overall growth rates to make grinding for them for use in the Thabes Labyrinth worthwhile.

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Do...people not remember there's a retreat option? Mind you there is one particular Fire Dragon on one of the lower floors (I'm not talking about the floor 5 one) that you can't retreat from but...yeah.

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54 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

Oh, I don't doubt that at all. Grinding is most definitely required for a normal playthrough.

Though might I ask, why do most people promote ASAP? I mean, I know you get those stat increases, but I feel like it'd be better just to wait anyways due to the potential of other stat gains/more stat gains. Or is it more for class abilities and movement increases? Or am I just weird lol.

Abilities and movement increases so the game is easier, and therefore progression is faster. You can't realistically hit 20/20 in most FE games, so there's no point most of the time.

43 minutes ago, NoNameAtAll said:

Do...people not remember there's a retreat option? Mind you there is one particular Fire Dragon on one of the lower floors (I'm not talking about the floor 5 one) that you can't retreat from but...yeah.

The fact that you need to retreat from a battle and can't fight it out just shows the level of stat inflation.

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It's a post-game dungeon, of course it's unfair. But it's not required of paid DLC at all, since you can just dread loop one of your 9 mercs from Celica's route to max stats. Maybe Fork Mae or another caster if you really need them capped.

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I pretty much ran past all the enemies I could - the first few floors had enemies that I considered a waste of my time because they barely gave exp, and the last few floors were just hard imo lol. Then I got to Baby Grima and screwed up and lost one of the lords. Rip. Back to grinding, I suppose...

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So i was on the 4th floor. Faye and Tatiana died so i used the Turnwheel.....and my game froze. I'm actually a bit salty right now.

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9 hours ago, Armagon said:

So i was on the 4th floor. Faye and Tatiana died so i used the Turnwheel.....and my game froze. I'm actually a bit salty right now.

The Turnwheel has crashed my game once, too. I'm not sure what causes it honestly. Obviously something to do with 3DS memory, but I'm not sure if there are triggers.

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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So is the Fire Dragon on Floor 5 required? And if it is, what happens if i leave the dungeon after beating it? Do unavoidable enemies respawn?

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Just now, Armagon said:

So is the Fire Dragon on Floor 5 required? And if it is, what happens if i leave the dungeon after beating it? Do unavoidable enemies respawn?

Yupp.

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Just now, Thane said:

Yupp.

I figured it was required. And also, does that mean i can't beat it, leave the dungeon to save, and come back, because it'll respawn? They thought of everything if that's true.

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