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Who is Better? Unit Vs.

Who is Statiscally better?  

90 members have voted

  1. 1. FE6

  2. 2. FE7

  3. 3. FE8

  4. 4. Bonus



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17 minutes ago, Gelsey Bell said:

Natasha has a lower staff rank, which is the main thing that matters. Maybe Moulder has less luck, but who cares. Luck is basically a throwaway stat to begin with. GBA crits are ridiculously unlikely, and if your healer is getting hit by something you didn't intend for them to, much less crit, you need a better strategy

Which would matter if this was FE6, but since it ain't, I remain unimpressed. Also, I disagree on luck being a throwaway stat. And I don't care that getting critted is unlikely - I care that it's a potential failure condition.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Why does it matter if it's FE6. Staff rank is important in every game.

Luck is 100% throwaway. Stefan is the best Swordmaster in PoR and he starts with like 1 luck.

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3 minutes ago, Gelsey Bell said:

Why does it matter if it's FE6. Staff rank is important in every game.

Luck is 100% throwaway. Stefan is the best Swordmaster in PoR and he starts with like 1 luck.

I don't see it mattering much when weapon rank doesn't rise at a snail's pace.

lmao no. Go play Radiant Dawn, where boosted crit enemies are common, then we'll talk.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't see it mattering much when weapon rank doesn't rise at a snail's pace.

lmao no. Go play Radiant Dawn, where boosted crit enemies are common, then we'll talk.

Did you seriously just try arguing Stefan isn't the best SM in PoR because RD has a lot of boosted crit enemies? You do know those are two different games, right?

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7 hours ago, Katie said:

Did you seriously just try arguing Stefan isn't the best SM in PoR because RD has a lot of boosted crit enemies? You do know those are two different games, right?

My point was directed squarely at the "luck is 100% throwaway" part of that post (for the record, it's generally harder to make up for low crit evade than, say, low hit rates). Also, I don't bother using Stefan, but that's neither here nor there.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Clarine Vs Cecilia: I voted Cecilia because she doesn't use up a Guiding Ring, and Clarine's exp gain tends to be worse than say, Saul, since she is often spending her turns rescue-dropping other units instead of healing. Saul's better Staff Rank and magic growth means that he's more deserving of the sole Guiding Ring you have before Chapter 14. Speaking of magic growth, 20/1 Clarine on average has less magic than base Cecilia. The glacial pace of leveling up staff rank in FE6 means that Clarine probably only ties with Cecilia in rank at this point. Cecilia just takes no resources to be a decent staffbot.

Sain Vs Lowen: Sain, although without Lyn Mode the difference becomes negligible due to Lowen's level lead by the time Sain even shows up.

Moulder Vs Natasha: Moulder. He joins earlier with a higher base level and higher staff rank and higher base magic. 

Artur Vs Lute: Artur. He has better attack speed for pretty much forever due to Lute's low Con, and he essentially has an extra chapter of availability over her as well, leading to him being higher leveled and thus closer to promotion, which means he's closer to Warp. Slayer is actually totally irrelevant, the staff rank from Bishop is much more notable. This level lead can be well seen in draft settings, where Artur can reasonably promote and start working on Staff Rank by Chapter 9, while Lute doesn't reach promotion until Chapter 11 most of the time. 

Edited by Carmine Sword

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

our definition of "tank" and mine must be night and day, because by my standards, "tank" doesn't befit him.

I meant he has more defense. I guess I should have said he's more tanky or has more defense, sorry.

 

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Tbf lower stave rank in FE8 doesn't matter as much as in 6 since stave level rises quickly in 8 so Moulder's higher stave level isn't a big advantage for him.
Moulder and Natasha can heal and restore in the beginning, and that counts for me.

Edit: I even overrated Moulder's average stats. His HP is only slightly better than Natasha's but therefore his res is garbage. Seriously his only good points are that he joins three levels earlier which doesn't really matter much and a much higher con. Natasha fufills the classical role of a healer is much more which is appreciated in earlygame.

If Cecilia would start with stave level B (which I honestly expect from a prepromoted unit), things would turn out differently.

Sain vs. Lowen: depends on the mode

Edited by はたの 秦 こころ

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On 2017-06-25 at 10:05 PM, Gelsey Bell said:

Why does it matter if it's FE6. Staff rank is important in every game.

Luck is 100% throwaway. Stefan is the best Swordmaster in PoR and he starts with like 1 luck.

He starts with 5 luck. It's Moulder who starts with 1. Also, he's the best swordmaster because he starts with hilariously high non-luck stats; the others won't catch up to him until the game is almost over. If Moulder had that kind of stat advantage on Natasha he'd be better too.


I don't do LTC-type playthroughs of FE8 so I don't think the difference in staff rank between Natasha and Moulder has come up for me ever. That leaves luck as by far the most meaningful difference between them. I find it tactically useful to sometimes put my healer in range of a single hit and I can count on Natasha to do that and live. I've twice had Moulder die to crits when doing the same thing.

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Clarine/Cecilia: I voted Clarine. She dodges like crazy which is good for a utility unit. Her main flaw is her lack of magic, but she does have the best survivability (sp? is this a word?) amongst your utility units. FE6's maps can tend to be big, so having a mounted healer is nice. Cecilia is also a nice unit, but she becomes available on a desert chapter and she's mounted... Plus I find a combo team with Clarine + Lugh/Lilina/Hugh to be better fit than for my strategies. She's not bad though.

Lowen/Sain: I'm kind of regretting my decision for voting for Sain, as FE7 isn't that difficult. I guess on Hector Hard Mode Lowen becomes more viable as a unit though. He is one of those characters that have more use when the difficulty is harder IMO.

Moulder/Natasha: Moulder comes earlier and with a better staff rank, so I voted for him. I like Natasha more, but if you're doing a no-grinding run, fork Natasha's Mend over to him because he'll most likely be ahead of Natasha in levels by that point.

Artur/Lute: They're both great, but I voted for Lute because she potentially gets a horse.

On 6/25/2017 at 9:48 PM, Gelsey Bell said:

Natasha has a lower staff rank, which is the main thing that matters. Maybe Moulder has less luck, but who cares. Luck is basically a throwaway stat to begin with. GBA crits are ridiculously unlikely, and if your healer is getting hit by something you didn't intend for them to, much less crit, you need a better strategy

Somewhere in the distance, Mangs felt a disturbance in the FE fandom...

Edited by Dandy Druid

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Probably going to repeat a lot of what has already been said, but whatever:

Clarine vs Cecilia: Clarine has better availability and generally better stats when promoted.

Sain vs Lowen: I'd say Lowen, but if we're assuming Lyn mode is played first Sain is better I think. Lowen's bases and earlier joining time make him a lot easier to train up, and he's not that much worse then Sain when trained up (most of the time).

Moulder vs Natashja: Moulder has more bulk, which makes him a bit easier to use. Slayer means he can still kill monsters just fine as well.

Arthur vs Lute: Not to sure about this one since I haven't played SS in a while, but I generally prefer Lute.

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Clarine- availability, especially since FE6's early game is when you most need healers due to not having all the pre-premotes/good units yet.

Sain- STR > SPD in FE7, because unlike FE6 you don't really have any risk of not hitting the doubling threshold.

Moulder- I really don't know where support for natasha is coming from, never heard of using her being  more worthwhile in my life.

Arthur- Arthur's main advantage over Lute is that Lute is effectively the second slowest unit in the game after Gilliam due to eating Con penalty from nearly anything. Lute will hit magic cap with either of her promotion, so Slayer doesn't really mean anything (monster's can't take 2 cap elfires any easier than a bishop lol)

 They are essentially interchangble on NM but on HM Lute's speed actually causes a problem, especially if you go Ephriam route. (they are equal again around post C17 and Creature Campaign) Also free staff ranks.

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FE6: Going to go with Cecilia since it's a toss up and they're about the same but Cecilia has Anima rank unlike Clarine and also doesn't eat a Guiding Ring. I'd say use Clarine up until Cecilia and then bench her?

FE7: Sain if Lyn Mode is being done, because he has the choice to use Wallace's Knight's Crest to promote into a Paladin, effectively becoming a second Marcus. Lowen is better if no Lyn Mode is done because availability and Lowen will usually be better than Kent/Sain in their join chapter.

FE8: Moulder, I guess, slight chapter lead and he will have a level lead. Natasha can get Valkyrie which is nice I guess but Moulder's earlier join time makes him a bit better.

Bonus: Artur is better because he starts out better and can promote to Bishop

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Clarine. She's around longer, has better stats. I don't LTC, or do ranked necessarily, so I don't care about the Guiding Ring she swallows. Even if I did, I still can't imagine keeping Cecilia around. 

Sain. I always play Lyn mode. Even when I use Lowen for fun, he's always worse off than Sain. Still like using him though, not trying to hate on him.

Moulder. To be honest, I don't usually take this game that seriously, so Moulder's con means I can make him a Sage and watch him go to town with tomes too heavy for everyone else. I think even if I did take it seriously, his availability over Natasha would be enough anyway. If she had a real base mag stat, I might feel differently. 

Lute. Artur is probably better to be honest, but like I said, I just want max damage and crazy stats in this game, and Lute edges him out just barely. This one was more difficult, because honestly I use both pretty much every time. 

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On 6/26/2017 at 1:05 AM, Future Girl said:

Why does it matter if it's FE6. Staff rank is important in every game.

FE6 sets all WEx to 1, including staves. In FE7 and 8, mend is worth 3 WEx, so staff rank training rate triples as soon as you hit D. This also means that FE6 staff ranks are much more difficult to grind. It's not uncommon to have promoted Lugh/Ray just barely hitting D rank staff by the end of the game.

 

FE6: Cecilia. Clarine is a huge liability on ch14. We only get one promoted magic unit for that chapter. I'd rather give that guiding ring to Lugh or Saul first. Plus, Cecilia comes with C in staves, solid magic base, and B in anima magic. This gives her good staffbot utility with immediate access to aircalibur to take out the odd wyvern.

 

FE7: Sain, no matter which way you put it. Lowen ends up being unable to double a lot of key enemies, and barely dents anything with his pitiful offense growths. Defenses are useless because you either send in Lowen alone, or the enemy skirts around Lowen and hits a squishier target. The former is a silly strategy, and the latter means that defenses will only matter on player phase, while solid offenses apply to both player and enemy phases.

 

FE8: Neither. I'll use them if I have to, but guiding rings are so abundant in the game that Lute and Artur make better healers. Both have very high offensive capabilities. Lute can sustain herself better, while Artur makes the better staff bot with his magic growths. Plus we get the self-centered princess of Rausten, who ends up as one of the most broken units in the game if trained. If I had to pick one or the other, I'd say Moulder. His promotion to sage gives him C in anima magic, giving him immediate access to Elfire. His con also allows him to wield Fimbulvetr (and Aura, but that's obtained really late in the game) without much trouble.

 

Lute or Artur: Lute. She has better sustain with her solid dodge chances. You don't need to babysit her as much as Artur.

 

FE8 slayer is a little bit redundant because of the power and abundance of the sacred twins. They ORKO every monster in the game, including cyclops and draco zombies.

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Clarine/Cecilia: She has better availability, a broken support in the form of Rutger, and better stats. You could make the argument to relegate Cecilia to staffbot status, but that's about all she's good for. 

Lowen/Sain: This is personal preference for me. Sain hits stupidly hard, but I really don't care for his stat spread. He never gets quite enough speed to double much until near the end of the game nor does he get enough defense to justify using him as a front-line unit. His support with Kent patches these deficiencies up a bit, however. Lowen might be a worse unit from a purely statistical standpoint due to his low skill and speed, but I like having a tanky paladin that can support with units that can snipe from a distance like Rebecca. 

Moulder/Natasha: 'Tasha's a better bishop whereas Moulder's high CON lends more credence to him being a sage. I prefer my magic users to hit hard though, and Moulder's magic growth doesn't really allow that even when using higher-level tomes. He's a remarkable healer, though. Natasha beats out Moulder in both magic and resistance as well as luck. Additionally, her support options are less shallow than Moulder's - she's compatible with great units like Seth and Joshua.

Artur/Lute: Lute has access to better mobility as MK or higher magic overall as sage, the former of which being something that Artur can't ever hope to have. I've had Arty cap magic as Bishop which is more useful on CC and you already have perfectly serviceable sages in the forms of Moulder, Saleh, and perhaps Lute.

 

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Clarine vs Cecillia = Clarine. Useful and early, from beginning to the end.

Lowen vs Sain = Sain. Gameplay-wise, they are equally useful. However, story-Wise, Sain is one of the best of Cavalier of the series.

Moulder vs Natasha = Natasha. Joshua ; plain and simple. Although; L'Arachel is better than both of them.

Artur vs Lute = Lute. Similar to Lowen vs Sain, both of them can be useful and powerful units, because the monster units. However, Lute is better than Artur, because she has a better selection of promotion classes and Anima magic is stronger than Light magic, despite of the Slayer skill. Also, screw Ewan.

 

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1 hour ago, Xanaxian said:

Moulder/Natasha: 'Tasha's a better bishop whereas Moulder's high CON lends more credence to him being a sage. I prefer my magic users to hit hard though, and Moulder's magic growth doesn't really allow that even when using higher-level tomes. He's a remarkable healer, though. Natasha beats out Moulder in both magic and resistance as well as luck. Additionally, her support options are less shallow than Moulder's - she's compatible with great units like Seth and Joshua.

Speaking of, I never really found Moulder's high Con to mean much when outside of the long range magic, tomes of C rank and higher just aren't worth using - Elfire and Divine are both rather overpriced and not as strong as I'd expect for the price tag.

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Speaking of, I never really found Moulder's high Con to mean much when outside of the long range magic, tomes of C rank and higher just aren't worth using - Elfire and Divine are both rather overpriced and not as strong as I'd expect for the price tag.

I mean, I guess Moulder's got physical resilience going for him, but I definitely agree with you there. Plus his Con makes it difficult for anyone not mounted to rescue him.

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Speaking of, I never really found Moulder's high Con to mean much when outside of the long range magic, tomes of C rank and higher just aren't worth using - Elfire and Divine are both rather overpriced and not as strong as I'd expect for the price tag.

I mean, I guess Moulder's got physical resilience going for him, but I definitely agree with you there. Plus his Con makes it difficult for anyone not mounted to rescue him.

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1 hour ago, Xanaxian said:

I mean, I guess Moulder's got physical resilience going for him, but I definitely agree with you there. Plus his Con makes it difficult for anyone not mounted to rescue him.

I wouldn't even say he has that going for him - frankly, his durability edge is marginal at best, and it's undone by his Luck, which isn't much better than that of Knoll.

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On 11/11/2017 at 2:11 PM, Xanaxian said:

Clarine/Cecilia: She has better availability, a broken support in the form of Rutger, and better stats. You could make the argument to relegate Cecilia to staffbot status, but that's about all she's good for.

The only stats Clarine's beating Cecilia out in are Skl, Spd, and Lck. And even then, with the sole exception of her Spd, that's only if you promote her at Lvl 20, which isn't realistically happening.

On 11/11/2017 at 2:11 PM, Xanaxian said:

Lowen/Sain: This is personal preference for me. Sain hits stupidly hard, but I really don't care for his stat spread. He never gets quite enough speed to double much until near the end of the game nor does he get enough defense to justify using him as a front-line unit.

An early promoted Sain is comparable to a base Marcus, though.

On 11/11/2017 at 2:11 PM, Xanaxian said:

Moulder/Natasha: 'Tasha's a better bishop whereas Moulder's high CON lends more credence to him being a sage. I prefer my magic users to hit hard though, and Moulder's magic growth doesn't really allow that even when using higher-level tomes.

A 40% growth rate in Mag is hardly bad.

On 11/11/2017 at 2:11 PM, Xanaxian said:

Artur/Lute: Lute has access to better mobility as MK or higher magic overall as sage, the former of which being something that Artur can't ever hope to have. I've had Arty cap magic as Bishop which is more useful on CC and you already have perfectly serviceable sages in the forms of Moulder, Saleh, and perhaps Lute.

On the other hand, Artur can access C staves just as soon as he promotes whereas Lute could only struggle to have that.

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Moulder's magic stat is rather... pathetic, as far as magic users in SS go. The average Natasha and the average Moulder have the same magic stat by level 7, and the gap just continues to widen. His much toted bulk is rather mediocre when compared to any actual tanks, and hardly does enough to make up for his lackluster res and abysmal luck. The higher staff rank is nice, certainly, but Natasha should have plenty of time to reach whatever staff rank you need when more, higher ranked staves actually become available. By the time you get Warp, for instance, Natasha will have had plenty of time to get ready to use it and with a good deal more effectiveness. Moulder is a very nice unit to have at the beginning of the game, but his overall superiority is rather short lived. Nice supports, though.

 

L'arachel is the best, though

Edited by L'arachel

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