Male Robin & Lissa potentially confirmed

[BlizzardWolf95]

6 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

mmm...well I don't think good stats and ''something'' is really enough to overlook a barely existing personality or role in the story, even when compared to other minor characters in the series. What could they possibly do with Barst in the game when he lacks those basic things. If its just to have an axe users then there are tons of better options available. 

I don't see potential for an interesting moveset or role in the game for this character, only a spot being practically wasted. 

Since being personable and expressive is a big deal for a character in a warriors game it would be unwise to ad a character that is neither of these things.  

Well, good stats were all FE1 characters had to offer to get any sort of "popularity" in most cases. It's why you never hear mention of Mathis, Vyland, Tomas or Darros.

I'm also certain a moveset could be crafted for Barst that could be interesting enough to justify his addition. Have you seen the movesets that games like Warrior Orochi and the like have crafted for their characters? I'm certan that wouldn't be a problem, heck it might even make some players enjoy Barst!

Darros, Bord, Cord, Vaike and Arthur admittedly have the worst chances of all the Axe Fighters to get in. Barst, Charlotte and Basilio have the best chances, though Barst's chances are influenced by Ogma's appearance, as I don't think he'd get in without him.

15 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Personally I would prefer Legion as an axe user, but I don't think that he's particularly likely.

I'd like Legion to get in too, but unfortunately New Mystery isn't where they're pulling from, just FE1.

[Arthur97]

Well, with Robin, they better include some version of ID (Purpose).

[Jedi]

17 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think an argument of being the first can be made for characters such as Cain and Draug. I personally do not agree with that being relevant in a series with the release history of Fire emblem but I can understand the argument. With Barst I do not. He didn't really go on to influence any unit in future games and there's little to take inspiration from to begin with. 

He is merely the first axe user for the Japanese and a decent but extremely bare bones character in a game most westerners felt underwhelming. I personally find him the clearest example of Archanea having lackluster characters. Its not in that continents interest to flaunt how bare bones their characters are, they should be pulling out all the big guns to avoid their lack of substance sticking out. 

I don't find good stats to matter very much when there's barely a character and when having character is so important in the Warrior games this is made worse when it comes to his inclusion in such a game. 

Even if I had said another character besides Barst your negativity towards Marths games would have come out regardless, its like talking to a brick wall.

I don't think Barst is really worth it myself, but he'd still make sense as a potential axe fighter choice from the 3 games we have to pick from.

[Etrurian emperor]

2 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

Well, good stats were all FE1 characters had to offer to get any sort of "popularity" in most cases. It's why you never hear mention of Mathis, Vyland, Tomas or Darros.

I'm also certain a moveset could be crafted for Barst that could be interesting enough to justify his addition. Have you seen the movesets that games like Warrior Orochi and the like have crafted for their characters? I'm certan that wouldn't be a problem, heck it might even make some players enjoy Barst!

Darros, Bord, Cord, Vaike and Arthur admittedly have the worst chances of all the Axe Fighters to get in. Barst, Charlotte and Basilio have the best chances, though Barst's chances are influenced by Ogma's appearance, as I don't think he'd get in without him.

I wouldn't say stats are the only thing Archaneans characters can offer. We also have characters like Hardin Caeda or Camus who really do have things going for them or characters like Cain and Ogma who would go on the inspire future characters.  Even in Archanean it should be so that if stats are the only singular thing a character has going for them then that's every reason not to pick that unit for a crossover. 

They could craft a moveset for Barst but they really shouldn't. Instead they should pick someone who already has potential. Putting a lot of thought in making barst work is just wasted time when there are even Archaneans who don't need that amount of thought put in them in order to work.

I also don't think Ogma quite needs Barst, its not like they have a lot of chats in their own world. If Ogma needs company then Ceada is more then enough. The two appear to have at least some sort of bond. 

[Etrurian emperor]

20 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Even if I had said another character besides Barst your negativity towards Marths games would have come out regardless, its like talking to a brick wall.

I don't think Barst is really worth it myself, but he'd still make sense as a potential axe fighter choice from the 3 games we have to pick from.

Actually this isn't quite about my negativity towards Marth's games and i'm a teensy bit offended that you think it is. Adding a blank slate like Barst would confirm my negativity but that's not what I want.  

If you said Ogma I would indeed say he's worse then every one of his archtype but I agree that he could work if none of those are available. He has at least the bare minimum of things going for him. Same with Merric, George or Cain. But Barst just isn't on the list of characters that meets even those low standards. 

Even with my negativity towards Archanea I think that continent can do better than Barst. Aside from the few goodies like Hardin or Camus we got some characters that could be decent when expanded upon like Merric, Cain, Gordin and the like. But Barst isn't one of those characters. He barely had any more dialogue then his death quote and no charm to his design at all. 

To me it does seem really hard for Archaneans to stand up against the newer or even the older characters but it can be done and it must be done for this set up to work.  It just can't be done with characters like Barst and that's why his inclusion would be quite terrible. Archenean simply must pick the big guns or expand on the characters that provide room for it. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[BlizzardWolf95]

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I also don't think Ogma quite needs Barst, its not like they have a lot of chats in their own world. If Ogma needs company then Ceada is more then enough. The two appear to have at least some sort of bond. 

I know, I meant the opposite. Barst's chances are the lowest out of the three potential Axe Infantry units I said, unless Ogma gets in, then Barst's chances increase. Ogma could get in alone, but Barst would probably not. Ogma and Barst do share a bond of sorts, that of a commander and his subordinate, so I'm sure whatever small amount of conversation they've had could be fleshed out in FEW. 

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to say Barst is a good choice, I'm saying he's a logical choice for what merits and relations his character has. I'd prefer Basilio or Vaike, personally, but I'm just trying to look from all angles.

[PikmTheHero]

On 6/28/2017 at 4:00 AM, KongDude said:

I seriously want to know how healers work in this game. In a game that consists of a lot of hack n slash, how exactly will healers be effective?

FE10 anyone?

[The DanMan]

@Etrurian emperor Abel's my number one favorite playable character in the series. Not because of what little character he has in the game (though the FE1 manga humorously turned him into a devoted Gary Stu that feels like proto-Kris), but because of my attachment to him as a unit (the best cavalier in the game if it weren't for Hardin's B rank in lances).
And SD has the exact same metascore as SoV (81)-- "most westerners" didn't find it too underwhelming, it's that the core fans were dissatisfied and then scapegoated it for the series' decline.

You're saying "they don't have much character, so don't include them"; to me, this is another opportunity to help further define them as characters. They have traits that NME, Heroes, and side materials added/brought out; I see no reason not to continue this process.
Am I biased? Certainly; SD was my introduction to the series and I have a nostalgic attachment to the bulk of its cast. But I'd like to think I'm making at least some sense here. 

[BlizzardWolf95]

19 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

We also have characters like Hardin Caeda or Camus who really do have things going for them or characters like Cain and Ogma who would go on the inspire future characters

I'd argue Ogma/Barst are what set up the Mercenary/Fighter relationships of future games (Raven/Bartre, Ike/Boyd, Chrom/Vaike), so there's that. 

And like @The DanMan said, sometimes your attachment to a unit comes, not from their personality or plot importance, but rather what they do for you in the in-game moments, where personality isn't involved. A character could survive an onslaught of enemy units, caused by your accidental movement onto a space you didn't proof. That could be a defining moment for that character, and would earn that character a place in your heart.

Lacking a personality does not a bad character make, especially in Fire Emblem.

[Etrurian emperor]

15 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

@Etrurian emperor Abel's my number one favorite playable character in the series. Not because of what little character he has in the game (though the FE1 manga humorously turned him into a devoted Gary Stu that feels like proto-Kris), but because of my attachment to him as a unit (the best cavalier in the game if it weren't for Hardin's B rank in lances).
And SD has the exact same metascore as SoV (81)-- "most westerners" didn't find it too underwhelming, it's that the core fans were dissatisfied and then scapegoated it for the series' decline.

You're saying "they don't have much character, so don't include them"; to me, this is another opportunity to help further define them as characters. They have traits that NME, Heroes, and side materials added/brought out; I see no reason not to continue this process.
Am I biased? Certainly; SD was my introduction to the series and I have a nostalgic attachment to the bulk of its cast. But I'd like to think I'm making at least some sense here. 

To be fair I never held SD accountable for the series decline. But I do join the people complaining about the characters and story and am probably one of the hardliners in that regard. 

I'd also say I view Abel in the same way as Cain. As in that I think all their successors have surpassed them but that they could do in a pinch. Abel in particular has that whole Est business. I've accepted that Archaneans will fill prominent slots so characters I deem ''Cain tier''  wouldn't bother me that much anymore. Abel would be ''Cain tier'' . I'm not totally unsympathetic to being invested in Archaneans as units. I'm that way about Hardin. But Warrior games in particular are character driven rather then driven by stats. 

I can see the logic in wanting more chances to see those characters expanded upon but my reaction to that is wonder why that hasn't alreasy fully happened yet. Shadow Dragon was the prime moment to adres this. They didn't. New mystery made a good try but 1 or 2 supports isn't enough and its Japanese exclusive. I say it should't even have been a process. Those characters have more games under their belt than any other characters in the series and it still didn't do them any good. If they still haven't stopped lagging behind after so many games I stop expecting that adding yet another one would help solve that issue. 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[The DanMan]

Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

To be fair I never held SD accountable for the series decline. But I do join the people complaining about the characters and story and am probably one of the hardliners in that regard. 

I'd also say I view Abel in the same way as Cain. As in that I think all their successors have surpassed them but that they could do in a pinch. Abel in particular has that whole Est business. I've accepted that Archaneans will fill prominent slots so characters I deem ''Cain tier''  wouldn't bother me that much anymore. Abel would be ''Cain tier'' . I'm not totally unsympathetic to being invested in Archaneans as unit. I'm that way about Hardin. But Warrior games in particular are character driven rather then driven by stats. 

I can see the logic in wanting more chances to see those characters expanded upon but my reaction to that is wonder why that hasn't alreasy fully happened yet. Shadow Dragon was the prime moment to adres this. They didn't. New mystery made a good try but 1 or 2 supports isn't enough and its Japanese exclusive. I say it should even have been a process. Those characters have more games then any other characters in the series and it still didn't do them any good. If they still haven't stopped lagging behind after so many games I stop expecting that adding yet another one would help solve that issue. 

 

IS was re-shuffled after RD's low sales-- SD was more "get the new guys acquainted with the basics". It wasn't very ambitious, but they couldn't be-- the original FE11 prototype Wii game was very ambitious but got shut down early. They did what they could with limited resources-- moreso with NME, since the groundwork had already been laid.

To me, Warriors games are as much about stats and movesets as they are characters. For instance, I really like Ma Chao as a playable character but can't stand his rambling about justice. Inversely, I like Cao Pi's character but his moveset just doesn't quite mesh with me. I've spent far more time playing as Ma Chao than Cao Pi.

Honestly, seeing this topic repeatedly come up I doubt any headway can be made-- I'd sooner just agree to disagree and avoid broaching it again.

[Etrurian emperor]

Just now, The DanMan said:

Honestly, seeing this topic repeatedly come up I doubt any headway can be made-- I'd sooner just agree to disagree and avoid broaching it again.

Considering I've spend a tad to long on this topic today I agree for now 

[Jedi]

I apologize for getting briefly heated there @Etrurian emperor. I was a bit out of line with what I stated.

[Etrurian emperor]

Just now, Jedi said:

I apologize for getting briefly heated there @Etrurian emperor. I was a bit out of line with what I stated.

Its all good 

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, with Robin, they better include some version of ID (Purpose).

No, more likely ID (Hope) that's pinned down as his theme song. I prefer Hope over Purpose anyway. 

[Arthur97]

Just now, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

No, more likely ID (Hope) that's pinned down as his theme song. I prefer Hope over Purpose anyway. 

Gasp! I love ID (Purpose) though it benefited from the atmosphere and buildup. It did make it into Smash though over the other ID songs, so it has some prestige.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Gasp! I love ID (Purpose) though it benefited from the atmosphere and buildup. It did make it into Smash though over the other ID songs, so it has some prestige.

Except Smash is Smash not FE (like how Smash Roy isn't FE Roy who is unpopular). Hope has been used as Robin's theme in Fates and Echoes through the amiibo. If anything you would get Purpose through Chrom, Lucina or even Lissa (though unlikely but who knows).

[Arthur97]

3 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

Except Smash is Smash not FE (like how Smash Roy isn't FE Roy who is unpopular). Hope has been used as Robin's theme in Fates and Echoes through the amiibo. If anything you would get Purpose through Chrom, Lucina or even Lissa (though unlikely but who knows).

Not really their thing. Purpose isn't really Robin's theme either, it's almost Awakening's second theme. 

[Jedi]

12 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

Except Smash is Smash not FE (like how Smash Roy isn't FE Roy who is unpopular). Hope has been used as Robin's theme in Fates and Echoes through the amiibo. If anything you would get Purpose through Chrom, Lucina or even Lissa (though unlikely but who knows).

FE Roy is popular, especially in Japan. 

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/afej/k_tohyo/index.html

The Japanese also generally have a high opinion of FE6 probably because it shares a number of aspects with Marths games.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Jedi

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

FE Roy is popular, especially in Japan. 

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/afej/k_tohyo/index.html

To be fair, that was a poll for his own game.

[Jedi]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

To be fair, that was a poll for his own game.

Yes but, as a note that in the FE7 one that Eliwood nor Hector overall won theirs (then again they were 2nd & 3rd), it kind of states how much people actually did like Roy. 

They also liked him despite him being quite possibly the worst lord in a gameplay context in the franchise to boot, that says something as well.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Jedi

[Arthur97]

Just now, Jedi said:

Yes but, as a note that in the FE7 one that Eliwood nor Hector overall won theirs (then again they were 2nd & 3rd), it kind of states how much people actually did like Roy. 

Who was first?

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

What Arthur said and keep in mind Roy wasn't even in the Famitsu Overall Favorite Character Poll. Just because Roy is 2nd in the Heroes poll doesn't mean it's from the FE fanbase especially given Heroes is a mobile title thus Smash fans have joined it. This is a poll where we're talking about characters like Donnel and Dorcas of all characters made it into the top 20.

Roy is our boy is popular yet annoying meme which the fans of smash don't even know a thing about him at all except that he uses a oh hey fire sword!

Edited July 2, 2017 by AbsoluteZer0Nova

[Jedi]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Who was first?

Nino, amazingly enough.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/k_tohyo/index.html

[Arthur97]

Just now, Jedi said:

Nino, amazingly enough.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/k_tohyo/index.html

Nino? Japan does like...well, you know.