Summoning Focus: Brave Heroes!

[Lushen]

14 minutes ago, Ekans647 said:

Urvan still sounds a little underwhelming. I think Glaceon made a good point mention how Horse Emblem will just run Xander to beat Ike. Being a Green really undermines a lot of Ike's Defensive potential. If Ike is gonna shine, it's probably gonna be with his stats. 

I mean not really.  Hauteclere is considered to be a great weapon, and it just has 16mt and special trigger -1.  In addition, if there were a weapon that negatted doubles from the enemy, it would be OP and that's not far off from Urvan.

I'll agree Greens aren't usually very good, but Minerva is one of the best and his weapon Trump's mineveras.

Also he will destroy Lyn and Reinhardt w/ DC (goodbye Hector)

Edited August 28, 2017 by Lushen

[Tenzen12]

14 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

 

I'm not sure how you consider negating Litrblade's effect to be underwhelming when that effect makes it literally the most powerful weapon in the game. Not to mention an effective -6 Atk and -6 Spd to cavalry and fliers under the effect of Hone Cavalry/Hone Fliers.

Do we know when it remove buffs? Before battle, after Ike hit enemy or after combat?

10 minutes ago, Ekans647 said:

Urvan still sounds a little underwhelming. I think Glaceon made a good point mention how Horse Emblem will just run Xander to beat Ike. Being a Green really undermines a lot of Ike's Defensive potential. If Ike is gonna shine, it's probably gonna be with his stats. 

Horse emblem runs Xander either way, so not really that big chagce. In all seriousness if you wanna defense team that is colour proof, you would have to run colourless with CA only. Otherwise you have to deal with fact no unit can handle everything.

[Ekans647]

Perhaps I'm being a bit greedy. I have enough of a problem with Reinhardt and Horse Emblem. I was just surprised at how niche Ike's abilities were. I'm excited to see Ike's full skill set and stats. Hell maybe he even gets distant counter natively. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Ekans647

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Do we know when it remove buffs? Before battle, after Ike hit enemy or after combat?

It doesn't remove the buffs. It just ignores their effect for the duration of combat.

Since the effect is strictly an in-battle effect, AoE special skills will still be affected by the opponent's field buffs because those occur outside of battle.

[Alistair]

Random thought: do y'all think they might do a rates increase alteration like with Hero fest, or...?

[LuxSpes]

1 minute ago, Alistair said:

Random thought: do y'all think they might do a rates increase alteration like with Hero fest, or...?

Don't think they will. Hero Fest have been the only banners where the focus rate started at 5% and this one hasn't been announced as a hero fest.

I do wish the units will be added to the summoning pool and not be limited time only like the summer banners.

[Ekans647]

3 minutes ago, Alistair said:

Random thought: do y'all think they might do a rates increase alteration like with Hero fest, or...?

I could very well see that happening. 

If I had to the units in the banner, from what I've seen; Lyn > Ike > Lucina > Roy

[Tenzen12]

If I will have to choose freebie before normal CYL summon session I will pick Lyn and go with everything to be economic. More Brave heroes sound like fun, but I don't particularly care which of them. I will probably buy some orbs too, but only causal amount.

[Lushen]

20 minutes ago, Alistair said:

Random thought: do y'all think they might do a rates increase alteration like with Hero fest, or...?

16 minutes ago, Ekans647 said:

I could very well see that happening. 

If I had to the units in the banner, from what I've seen; Lyn > Ike > Lucina > Roy

You do realize they just gave us a free unit right?

We're not getting a free unit and chance increases.

 

[LucarioGamer812]

So after much consideration, I've decided on Lyn, since I have no grey 5 stars and I'm predicting Lyn will be top 3 for archers, and I will be whaling for everyone else (Roy lowest priority, sorry my boy but the others are really good) with Lucina and Ike being next.

[Malik]

The banner looks really cool really want them all 

[Othin]

51 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

Don't think they will. Hero Fest have been the only banners where the focus rate started at 5% and this one hasn't been announced as a hero fest.

I do wish the units will be added to the summoning pool and not be limited time only like the summer banners.

My understanding is that the way they're describing the banner (like calling them "new heroes" rather than "special heroes") indicates they'll be added to the summoning pool. Although even if they do get added, they may still end up more restricted than others: I wouldn't be surprised if all four of them stay at 5* rather than two dropping, and it could be quite a while before they get more appearances on banners.

[Bartozio]

So after looking at CYL!Lyn's stats a bit, it seems like she's basicly +Def-Res Innes with one more point of speed (if she's neutral).

Is it me, or did they forget to nerf her for being on a horse? I mean, Innes is already considered to be the second best offensive archer, and Lyn has strictly better offensive stats and a horse. I guess other people already pointed this out somewhere, but still...

She doesn't even need a personal weapon to break the game!

[LuxSpes]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

My understanding is that the way they're describing the banner (like calling them "new heroes" rather than "special heroes") indicates they'll be added to the summoning pool. Although even if they do get added, they may still end up more restricted than others: I wouldn't be surprised if all four of them stay at 5* rather than two dropping, and it could be quite a while before they get more appearances on banners.

I was about to post that I'd hope for them to stay in the pool and probably pick Lyn or Ike as my freebie since Lucina and Roy have more chances to being dropped to 4*, but considering that they all seem very good, I wouldn't be surprised if all of them stayed 5* exclusive.

[Lushen]

7 minutes ago, Othin said:

My understanding is that the way they're describing the banner (like calling them "new heroes" rather than "special heroes") indicates they'll be added to the summoning pool. Although even if they do get added, they may still end up more restricted than others: I wouldn't be surprised if all four of them stay at 5* rather than two dropping, and it could be quite a while before they get more appearances on banners.

I would agree.  Additionally, I don't think they will do CYL again routinely (though they might), so there wouldn't be a way to reintroduce them logically.  I think they will be added to the pool but never be a focus unit again.

[Ekans647]

Even though I already have an amazing Hector, I'm still picking Ike. I like him too much. I'm still gonna roll for Lucina though. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Ekans647

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

So after looking at CYL!Lyn's stats a bit, it seems like she's basicly +Def-Res Innes with one more point of speed (if she's neutral).

Is it me, or did they forget to nerf her for being on a horse? I mean, Innes is already considered to be the second best offensive archer, and Lyn has strictly better offensive stats and a horse. I guess other people already pointed this out somewhere, but still...

She doesn't even need a personal weapon to break the game!

Yeah, there's been a bit of discussion of that. My take on it is that since Lyn has higher-than-expected stats for her unit type while Roy apparently has his stats where they're supposed to be, it's probably another 1st place-exclusive reward, like the unique passives. So Ike will probably also have inflated stats, but not Lucina.

7 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

I was about to post that I'd hope for them to stay in the pool and probably pick Lyn or Ike as my freebie since Lucina and Roy have more chances to being dropped to 4*, but considering that they all seem very good, I wouldn't be surprised if all of them stayed 5* exclusive.

Yeah, it's rare for banner units with even "regular" ultimate weapons to drop to 4*: it only happened the first two times, on banners that already had so many ultimate weapons that the half that stayed 5* exclusive still all had ultimate weapons: Eirika and Seliph dropping while Ephraim and Julia stayed, and Reinhardt dropping (alongside Klein and Lachesis) while Olwen, Sanaki, and Eldigan stayed. Given that Roy and Lucina have weapons a whole level above the ultimate weapons we've seen so far, it'd be pretty strange for them to drop, and would probably feel bad for anyone who picked them as the free unit. (Or dumped a ton of orbs into them thinking they were rare.) Adding four characters to the regular summoning lineup and keeping them all 5* exclusive would be unprecedented, but so is everything else here, so it's a reasonable enough time for it.

8 minutes ago, Lushen said:

I would agree.  Additionally, I don't think they will do CYL again routinely (though they might), so there wouldn't be a way to reintroduce them logically.  I think they will be added to the pool but never be a focus unit again.

I don't think they'll do another poll, but I'm guessing at some point we'll get another, similar event where high-profile characters get cool new outfits in this sort of style alongside "super ultimate weapons" on the level of the ones here. This will probably make them a lot of money, but the power creep will also mean raising the bar for future units, so keeping up with that will be important even if it's only a once or twice a year thing. Could feature other top CYL finishers like the 5-8th place units appearing in this Voting Gauntlet, or just other noteworthy characters like a new set of lords.

When they do that, I think they'll rerun the original CYL banner we're about to get, but probably only for special occasions like that. Might even be as part of like a Tempest Trial or Voting Gauntlet, which is also what I've speculated about for rerunning seasonal banners next year alongside their successors.

I don't think future banners like this will have the "pick one for free" deal, though. Which will probably help keep up the incentive for people to spend money on them.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

I'm picking Roy, and I am saving my orb stash to roll for more.

I wasn't aware that the boi cosplaying as his daddy was something that I needed in my life, but it is. It really, really is.

[Junkhead]

I can't say I was too hype about the thing, but at least they all look somewhat appealing to me (namely Ike and Lucina). I feel like the free hero is way, way, waaaaaaay too fuckin generous. I appreciated the little tweak on the grindfest that Trials are, but this is basically Kindgarten Mode. What's the fun in having "rare" heroes when everyone and their mother gets one for free? I might legitimately consider foddering Lucina for Drive Spd.

[Lord Raymond]

Just now, Soul~! said:

I can't say I was too hype about the thing, but at least they all look somewhat appealing to me (namely Ike and Lucina). I feel like the free hero is way, way, waaaaaaay too fuckin generous. I appreciated the little tweak on the grindfest that Trials are, but this is basically Kindgarten Mode. What's the fun in having "rare" heroes when everyone and their mother gets one for free? I might legitimately consider foddering Lucina for Drive Spd.

My theory is that they aren't doing this out of generosity. With so many -Blade and Horse Emblem teams going around, they decided they needed to change things out for the casual people who couldn't form those teams on their own. They didn't want the casual playerbase to stop playing the game because they were sick of losing to the top tier meta strategies. So what's the simplest option? Give them a free overpowered unit that directly counters the one that gives you the most trouble. It's quite a smart maneuver; keep all of the casual playerbase, enticing them with a really good 5 star unit for free, and have all the fans laud you for being generous (not that they aren't being generous; they could have just nerfed those strategies, but they chose a smarter route).

[Junkhead]

Assuming they did decide to do that, then that would also mean they pay attention to the meta. Going off on Nintendo not giving a crap on competitive Smash, I'm a little skeptical. Then again, I know there's at least some actual players involved in the developing team and the like. With all this said, you say this as if Horse Emblem and Blade tomes are hard to counter. Maybe in regards to black and white statistics, it wins merely in numbers (people just realise how good it is and jump into mindless bandwagon). CPUs stack bouses onto Blade tomes merely by base positioning, but that doesn't mean they're smart on their actual movement patterns. For me, it's as easy as baiting someone to counterkill them (in the case of Cecilia and Camilla). Your post also doesn't take into account that Horse Emblem is literally F2P, in every sense of the word.

[Lushen]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

I don't think they'll do another poll, but I'm guessing at some point we'll get another, similar event where high-profile characters get cool new outfits in this sort of style alongside "super ultimate weapons" on the level of the ones here. This will probably make them a lot of money, but the power creep will also mean raising the bar for future units, so keeping up with that will be important even if it's only a once or twice a year thing. Could feature other top CYL finishers like the 5-8th place units appearing in this Voting Gauntlet, or just other noteworthy characters like a new set of lords.

Yea...I don't normally care about power creeps b/c I think they're a health part of a game's future, but in this game it upsets me.  For example, Lucina is going to outclass Ephraim so bad now I won't really be able to use him anymore, which is a shame b/c he is a Lord and was good when he came out.  So unless a new version of Ephraim comes out, I can't use the character Ephraim.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Lushen

[Lord-Zero]

15 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Yea...I don't normally care about power creeps b/c I think they're a health part of a game's future, but in this game it upsets me.  For example, Lucina is going to outclass Ephraim so bad now I won't really be able to use him anymore, which is a shame b/c he is a Lord and was good when he came out.  So unless a new version of Ephraim comes out, I can't use the character Ephraim.

CYL!Lucina's "buffs" are different from Ephraim's or...at least the way they work. Ephraim still has his uses, especially as a buffbot and I don't think CYL!Lucina will be that common; that one would be CYL!Lyn without a doubt. 

As for the units...stats...will make or break these guys. CYL!Lyn has the edge of having a niche no other unit currently has and she seems to have a great kit. Hmm...this definitely raises the bar for future units as well as the way they'd tweak legendary weapons so this means that maybe Sigurd isn't totally screwed and he could get a tweaked Tyrfing. Same goes for Itsuki if he makes it. 

[Lord Raymond]

Just now, Soul~! said:

Assuming they did decide to do that, then that would also mean they pay attention to the meta. Going off on Nintendo not giving a crap on competitive Smash, I'm a little skeptical. Then again, I know there's at least some actual players involved in the developing team and the like. With all this said, you say this as if Horse Emblem and Blade tomes are hard to counter. Maybe in regards to black and white statistics, it wins merely in numbers (people just realise how good it is and jump into mindless bandwagon). CPUs stack bouses onto Blade tomes merely by base positioning, but that doesn't mean they're smart on their actual movement patterns. For me, it's as easy as baiting someone to counterkill them (in the case of Cecilia and Camilla). Your post also doesn't take into account that Horse Emblem is literally F2P, in every sense of the word.

I'm not saying that it takes money for a horse emblem team. I'm just saying I don't think casual fans will really know what they are doing to make a threatening horse emblem team. Unless they look closely at arena teams, memorize them, and copy them, they will have no idea to put lance breaker and death blow on Reinhardt, or to sacrifice a Nino for Gronnblade on Cecilia. They wouldn't know the optimal fortify+hone+goad+ward combo to make a really good arena team. If it wasn't a problem at all to counter them, why bother making the unique skills for the most popular characters solely dedicated to countering Flier and Horse and -Blade teams?

[Junkhead]

That does makes sense...