Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over

[ZoesMad]

OK I have homework and stuff to do still, if anyone wants to point stuff out I'll comment on it, and also answer questions, but at least I got something out

[SB.]

Votals 1.9

Lord Gaius (4): Prims, Bartozio, Mackc2, Michelaar
SullyMcGully (3): Marth, BBM, Refa
BBM (2): SullyMcGully, Via
Prims (2): kirsche, Lord Gaius
Shinori (1): Baldrick
Bartozio (1): Shinori

With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer. You have 4 hours and 45 minutes left in the day.

Edited November 30, 2017 by SB.

[Refa]

3 minutes ago, Lord Gaius said:

OK I have homework and stuff to do still, if anyone wants to point stuff out I'll comment on it, and also answer questions, but at least I got something out

Assuming three scum, who else do you think is scum and why?

Why is Prims more likely to flip scum than Sully?  I looked at both of your reads and your Prims one didn't seem stronger.  Like, you're not saying why Prims is scum other than he's being lazy.  I don't get what your quote dumps are supposed to be proving.

[Percivalé]

I would be cooler with a prims lynch than a sully lynch and already have stated my concerns from before

[Percivalé]

I realize my vehemence WRT sully being town last night was kinda stupid but I still don't think he's scum

[Percivalé]

I'm also not a fan of mich's recent posts because they haven't been helpful and threatening to vote me over being annoying rather than scummy was also weird, in a scummy way

[SullyMcGully]

@Lord Gaius The purpose for the posts you mentioned was to expose my mindset at the beginning of the game. I started out passive, was pressured to become more active and that's where the mysterious "burst of confidence" everybody's been worried about comes from. I wasn't expecting to be suspected after my first real post in the game which made put me on the defensive and forced me to adopt a Mafia mindset of trying to make myself seem trustworthy, instead of going around passing judgement however I wanted and being taken at face value like lucky Refa gets to do. 

@kirsche I'd get behind a Prims lynch but I'd like it if he could defend himself first. I feel like he's been pressuring us to hammer on Gaius, which seems scummy to me because Mafia would have more incentive to end the round early. A lot of the people who seem to know Prims keep saying that this isn't average play for him, which makes me all the more suspicious.

@Refa You mentioned Prims' "other leads", but the way I read it, he hasn't put very much pressure on Mack and Marth in the later portion of the game where it would actually matter and his short stint on the BBS wagon is pretty much the same way. While he was on top of Shinori for a bit, that was his last real read other than Ken and he didn't contribute much there that hadn't already been said or was obvious. He asked good questions near the beginning but as things have gotten more intense he's basically tunneled on Ken/LG.

A big part of this is that Prims really hasn't posted in the later portion of the game, so maybe he does have some new reads right now that I don't know about. However I'm leaving in twenty minutes and if I don't hear from him, then that's where I'm leaving my vote.

My other primary suspect is Baldrick for reasons already stated, but he could clear up a lot by showing up too. I also want to hear from Mack soon. At any rate, I'm satisfied with BBS for now.

Unvote

Vote: Prims

Until I hear a good response, this is my best scumread.

[Percivalé]

before you say "oh quote that's omgus" but scum literally does that all the time I even do that as scum

[Percivalé]

see my main worry is that ken really was scum who gave up considering he'd logged in and was around but not posting and we should just stick to lynching his slot 

[SullyMcGully]

Wow, a lot of people posted while I wrote that last post. I need to become a faster writer.

[ZoesMad]

18 minutes ago, Refa said:

Assuming three scum, who else do you think is scum and why?

Why is Prims more likely to flip scum than Sully?  I looked at both of your reads and your Prims one didn't seem stronger.  Like, you're not saying why Prims is scum other than he's being lazy.  I don't get what your quote dumps are supposed to be proving.

A lot of it has to do with my expectations of Prims vs. Sully. Prims is generally regarded as one of the stronger players for good reason, Sully is in his first game ever. Also it doesn't just boil down to being lazy, his logic in the second quote is flawed (read it again), and I think it's kind of annoying to dumb down Prims not having any thoughts on anybody as laziness? Like, a lot has happened and we've got nothing from him.

[ZoesMad]

1 minute ago, Quote said:

see my main worry is that ken really was scum who gave up considering he'd logged in and was around but not posting and we should just stick to lynching his slot 

This also applies to @Refa who asked earlier on.

Ken sent a PM earlier this morning that said he overestimated how much time he'd have after classes FWIW (this is super super NAI but people are asking, dont use this for or against reads plz)

[Percivalé]

prims plays more apathetically than scum which has been another one of my main worries all gamr

[Percivalé]

plays more apathetically AS scum*

[SullyMcGully]

Would consolidate on Gaius, he's still an option, forgot about that.

What does NAI stand for?

[ZoesMad]

Non Alignment Indicative. Basically means something that shouldn't be used in asserting whether an individual is town or scum.

[SullyMcGully]

Thanks.

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Lord Gaius said:

A lot of it has to do with my expectations of Prims vs. Sully. Prims is generally regarded as one of the stronger players for good reason, Sully is in his first game ever. Also it doesn't just boil down to being lazy, his logic in the second quote is flawed (read it again), and I think it's kind of annoying to dumb down Prims not having any thoughts on anybody as laziness? Like, a lot has happened and we've got nothing from him.

Yeah, fair enough WRT expectations.  I mean, the first thing you said was that he was being lazy, so I don't think I'm dumbing down any of your points.  Okay, I get what you're saying about the second point and agree that the logic is flawed.  Why is it scum logic, though?  That's what I am asking.

Also you should totally answer my question about any other scumreads you might have.

[ZoesMad]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Yeah, fair enough WRT expectations.  I mean, the first thing you said was that he was being lazy, so I don't think I'm dumbing down any of your points.  Okay, I get what you're saying about the second point and agree that the logic is flawed.  Why is it scum logic, though?  That's what I am asking.

Also you should totally answer my question about any other scumreads you might have.

1: It's a way to cover for the park mainly, if you're using bad logic on your singular scumread, what have you really accomplished?

2: I think Shinori's Bart case is pretty decent, I can elaborate on that if you want after I finish my Statistics stuff. 

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Lord Gaius said:

1: It's a way to cover for the park mainly, if you're using bad logic on your singular scumread, what have you really accomplished?

2: I think Shinori's Bart case is pretty decent, I can elaborate on that if you want after I finish my Statistics stuff. 

1: Fair enough.

2: That'd be nice.

10 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

@Refa You mentioned Prims' "other leads", but the way I read it, he hasn't put very much pressure on Mack and Marth in the later portion of the game where it would actually matter and his short stint on the BBS wagon is pretty much the same way. While he was on top of Shinori for a bit, that was his last real read other than Ken and he didn't contribute much there that hadn't already been said or was obvious. He asked good questions near the beginning but as things have gotten more intense he's basically tunneled on Ken/LG.

A big part of this is that Prims really hasn't posted in the later portion of the game, so maybe he does have some new reads right now that I don't know about. However I'm leaving in twenty minutes and if I don't hear from him, then that's where I'm leaving my vote.

I can sheep this.  I don't think this post as a whole is a scum post, so regardless of how the Prims case pans out, I think I want you around for the next day.

##Unvote

##Vote: Prims

[Refa]

20 minutes ago, Quote said:

see my main worry is that ken really was scum who gave up considering he'd logged in and was around but not posting and we should just stick to lynching his slot 

the only thing i'm paranoid about is lord gaius being scum because this is exactly the sort of BIG PLAYS he'd make as scum getting lynched

[SullyMcGully]

Alright, I'm out of time. Prims never showed up, so I'm leaving my vote there. If people decide they want to lynch Gaius, it should be easy enough without my vote. I might make it back before the end. I'll certainly try to. 

Please don't kill me I'm innocent and I don't wanna die!

[BBM]

@kirsche- idk abojt you but I skim thr first time around to develop gut feelings and then try to justify those by reading the thread in more detail the second time. Shinori gives me a bad feeling, in a stronger way than Baldrick bc with Baldrick it's just that he's kind of lurking. With Shinori it's that I think his cases have been mostly weaker than I would expect from him. It's just that in both cases there isnt that much where I'm like 'this is actively scummy'.

I wanted to let Bartozio respond to most of it first before going more into why Shinori's case is bad. The bit about Bartozio being suspicious for not having anything better to vote for than going back to Ken is bad because iirc Shinori also wasnt voting anyone at the time because he wasnt sure who to vote. Yes, Bartozio should have looked more for other stuff later but this line of attack is still kind of hypocritical. The bit about Bartozio waiting 30 mins to vote him is also really weak because pointing something out and then realizing a little bit later that it actually bothers you a lot is something pretty common that happens all the time. Shinori also mentions several times that Bartozio sheeped people while voting him and I'm pretty sure that's wrong. He did sheep on the initial Ken vote but he had separate reasons for staying on it later.

I'll reread Prims once I get home but my feeling was that he had the strongest reason for parking Ken and most of why I didn't like Ken was directly based on his posts.

 

[BBM]

I got cut by like ten posts fuck phoneposting

Why is Prims worse than Baldrick and Bartozio for voteparking Ken? Is it just that he's held to a higher standard of play?

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, BBM said:

I got cut by like ten posts fuck phoneposting

Why is Prims worse than Baldrick and Bartozio for voteparking Ken? Is it just that he's held to a higher standard of play?

Honestly didn't think about that but my main issue with him isn't that he's voteparking anyways (that just adds to it).  Voting someone just because you think they'd play better as town is kind of a bullshit reason anyways (no one's town play is going to be consistently at their very best game after game).