Antihero Anonydraft Mafia (Game Over)

[Sham]

*genuinely made the mistake as scum, you know what I mean right

[Olivier]

Vanilla claims aren't nearly strong enough to be stepping stones for town, and I'm not lynching it.  There's no benefit to Scum!Crowler claiming vanilla in this situation.  If I were scum subbing out, I would have just subbed out and let people settle on Endeavor (especially considering Endeavor hasn't claimed yet).  People are oddly reluctant to lynch people who sub out, so he easily could have done this w/little to no repercussion.

Let's get rid of someone with real power instead!  

[Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Titania Andersen said:

Do you think that scum!Mello, a lynch candidate, is actively thinking about hunting for the SK/mafia as mafia/SK? It reads as genuine scumhunting to me and shows he's actively thinking about who is scum. Dismissing it as him hunting for the other scum strikes me as kind of tunneling, since you can dismiss any scumhunting someone does that way

Like, yes, he could have genuinely made the mistake, but him being in the mindset to make that mistake in the first place is evidence that he is actively thinking about who is scum. 

If you were sure Dr. Crowler was lying and you were scum, how would you react in that situation?

[Sham]

1 minute ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

If you were sure Dr. Crowler was lying and you were scum, how would you react in that situation?

My point is more the numbers thing isn't something I'd be actively thinking about. He'd have to go "Oh Crowler claimed, let me see if that adds up with my [and my scumbuddies'] numbers." It doesn't make sense as mafia because you'd assume the SK would tell the truth about their number even moreso than mafia (the SK would know if they're caught lying that they're immediately dead), so mafia have no reason to assume someone would lie about their draft order

so this only makes sense if Mello is specifically SK, which is... possible, but I'm still not super interested in a day 1 SK hunt lynch

[Olivier]

Just now, Titania Andersen said:

My point is more the numbers thing isn't something I'd be actively thinking about. He'd have to go "Oh Crowler claimed, let me see if that adds up with my [and my scumbuddies'] numbers." It doesn't make sense as mafia because you'd assume the SK would tell the truth about their number even moreso than mafia (the SK would know if they're caught lying that they're immediately dead), so mafia have no reason to assume someone would lie about their draft order

so this only makes sense if Mello is specifically SK, which is... possible, but I'm still not super interested in a day 1 SK hunt lynch

OH I get where you're coming from now.  Amazing, so I was right the first time all along!  Will wonders never cease.

I don't think it makes sense as an SK.  It'd put too much attention on his slot if he was actually right.  So Mello is most likely town.  Wait, this still feels bad.

##Unvote

[Olivier]

Endeavor is where my vote would be, but I don't want an early lynch.  I'll be here at phase end anyways.

I strongly believe that Faye is the most likely sub out to be scum (and that one of the sub outs is scum), so get hyped for her to be subbed in first over Lapis or Dr. Crowler.

Toshio/Kratos are where I'd look at for the third scumbuddy (Kratos because Batter's remark about how they stopped posting as soon as they stopped being cased was good).  Feel free to shoot either of these players SK so that I don't have to read them!  Or just shoot me, then I won't have to read anyone at all.  I wouldn't mind it if it turned out your hope was stronger than ours in the end.

I don't know how to catch SK's...

[Sham]

we should just all sub out, that'll really fuck with BBM

[Olivier]

And whoever doesn't sub out is SK.  Brilliant!

[Estelle]

I thought to pick 7 as the x thinking nobody else would pick it.... seriously people?

I'm (7,3), 9th in draft order and vanila town. I tried picking vengeful, because I'd rather have that extra kill in the hands of town (and because I thought it was fitting for my character).

About the whole me missing Beasts post, I was working on a post for giving different reads when he posted, and because of timeconstraints I decided to finish my post and look into his later. I probably should have mentioned it at least, but I really didn't feel like making a comment about how a new post would be coming up soon when I had no idea when that would be.

19 hours ago, Beast said:

Hey. Sorry I couldn't post sooner, I wanted to post more last night but I had something come up. I should also go ahead and tell you all that I'll be gone from here to phase end. Better amek this post count!

He's still mostly defensive, but his defenses aren't terrible and there are people with scummier content. I was never very serious about my Kratos read. I believe I made that clear when I first voted him?

Could you please clarify your question? I'm uncertain what you are asking about.

Sorry if it looks like I'm active lurking, but I just don't have as much time for this game as I thought I would. I don't have a lot of good reads because I don't have the time to do a whole lot of deep re-reading. I usually need about 3-4 hours a day to play a good mafia game. Right now I only have about half of that.

I was still writing my post on how I changed opinions on Kratos when I was questioned about being there. That's why I posted an "I'm working on a post" post, so that people would know that I wasn't writing just in response to that post.

Here's my opinion on all of the players:

Mello: His latest posts aren't making me feel any more comfortable about him. As has been pointed out already, his posts are fluffy and his votes are cheap, and his reasoning for everything is pretty weak so far. There are people here way better at picking apart arguments than I am who have already made these observations. However, while this slot is the most suspicious to me at the moment, I can still see how some of his actions could be coming from lazy/busy town. 

Rick: Pretty consistent poster with good reads. Strong townread.

The Batter: I've decided that my previous opinions on him are baseless at this point. He hasn't been the biggest contributor, but nothing he's done feels scummy to me either.

Titania: I never felt like the case against her was very strong, but I'm not beyond the idea that she could be scum. Still, her posts have good content, even if they are a little scummy at times.

Kokichi: Pretty consistent poster with good reads. Strong townread.

Nagito: Pretty consistent poster with good reads. Strong townread.

Lapis: Dunno what to make of this one, their first posts seemed decent but some of their later content is... weird. Waiting for them to post more before forming a solid opinion.

Endeavor: Her posts aren't that great IMO. Nothing reads as clearly scummy, though, and they seem like an easy target. Bad timing/time constraints have gotten a lot of townies lynched D1, I'm worried that might be the case here, regardless of her weak posts.

Dr. Crowler: I'm pretty suspicious of this one as well, as his posts have a little too much conviction to use such weak logic. Like Mello though, I can still see how some of his actions could be coming from lazy/busy town. 

Faye: One-post wonder. She could be scum? If she is, she certainly isn't trying to win the game. If we're going to hunt scum, we should hunt for scum that's capable of operating effectively. Faye has not posted enough for me to have an opinion on her. If she is scum though, she's still pretty harmless. I'd lynch her if she couldn't come up with a good reason for being gone. It isn't that long before BBM starts warning her, though.

Omar: Something about his posts reads as weak to me. Likely he's in my same position and doesn't have time to make good posts, but he isn't making himself incredibly useful.

Toshio: His latest content is reading as null. He seemed like town at the beginning, but I feel like his content has gotten poorer lately.

Nothing really original. I really am sorry I can't contribute more. I have to leave now. Good luck!

Is this on purpose or something?

there's not really enough detail in here to make me change my mind of him, but the whole purpose of my question was to make Beast commit to some reads at the very least (since people seemed unwilling to lynch him anyway it would have been a benefit if he couldn't go into D2 saying things like "I never liked this misslynch" or "I was suspecting them all along").

13 hours ago, Kokichi Ouma said:

Soooooooo... Why would Endeavor ask a question like this if he didn't even care about the answer? He must be a liar, to forget about something like this!

##Unvote
##Vote: Endeavor

I cared about getting an answer but less about what the answer actually was (as I was expecting something like this).

10 hours ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

@Endeavor

Turns out Endeavor's name sake is a sham, if his first post after returning to the thread is any indication.  I'm not bothered by the Beast vote itself, but everything else about the post is just...filler.  What bothers me more is him calling out the clown professor for going after easy targets when initially his only vote was Beast.  Even pillars of hope can be hypocritical, but I still don't see why Town!Endeavor would call out someone voting the same as him an easy vote.  His logic towards Toshio of "why are you bothered by me/Dr. Crawler making easy votes, Beast is even worse!" is scum logic.  I also don't appreciate his call out of our protagonist, Batter, considering voteswaps in and of themselves are not indicative of scumminess.  Why do Batter's votes not hold water?

This is a good lynch.  Ideally, Endeavor should claim NOW so we aren't locked onto this lynch if it's a bad one.  Additionally, I want everyone @Mello @Rick @The Batter @Titania Andersen @Kokichi Ouma @Mercenary Kratos @Lapis Lazuli @Endeavor @Dr. Crowler @Faye Valentine @Dr. Crowler @Beast @Toshio Ozaki to mention if they'll be on at phase end.  I should be, barring any unexpected intrusions.

I'll either barely make deadline, or I'll barely miss it.

My vote on Beast and Crawlers have different reasoning. I actually point out scum intent in Beasts posts, Crawler is just going after an inactive player as a pressure vote and swapping his vote when he's getting flak for it.

I didn't have a problem with Toshio being bothered by me and Crawler, I was bothered by the fact he didn't seem to mind someone doing the same thing. His explanation for it is fine though.

10 hours ago, Kokichi Ouma said:

I don't see why scum!Endie wouldn't vote Beast here. If you pick a fight with someone who is obviously going to struggle with defending yourself, your vote is going to come under less criticism! It's that simple. I also think Endie is playing the opposite of optimal right now, so it wouldn't be surprising for it to just be a desperate lie, would it?

Yes, attacking the player who everyone is calling lynchbait is a terrific plan for scum. Nobody would ever think ill of someone for doing that. It's also not like anyone has gotten flak for that already in this game. Yeah, the player I'm attacking is without a doubt the only one I should be worried about. \endsarcasm

I also don't like how Crawler is distancing himself from my lynch. I'm pretty sure he mentioned being suspicious of me, so only saying he doesn't see any objection to it feels weak. It feels like not wanting to receive flak when I flip town, but not wanting it to actually not happen either. Since a Beast lynch doesn't seem likely to happen at this point:

##Unvote

##Vote: Dr. Crawler

I don't have a lot of time today btw, so don't expect great posts from me from this point onwards. I'll mostly say don't lynch me, and keep a good eye on how people are handling my wagon if the first point doesn't hold up. I'll try to look into the later part myself, but I can't gurantee I'll have time for that.

[Refakitty³]

All these 7s.

What have I done to myself?????

I'll post some thoughts in an hour or two.

[Olivier]

You were 9th pick and you genuinely thought that you could get vengeful?

[Refakitty³]

All these 7s.

What have I done to myself?????

I'll post some thoughts in an hour or two.

[Estelle]

19 minutes ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

You were 9th pick and you genuinely thought that you could get vengeful?

You saw my posts up till this point and you genuinely thought I knew the meta behind picking roles?

[Marisa Kirisame]

My gut tells me Endeavor is scum, but Crowler's last post set off a lot of alarms in my head. My past feelings still triumph, and I would still prefer us to lynch Endeavor, but I am not averse to Crowler's lynch anymore. I'm biased maybe because this is a partial past read, but I still fine lynching Endeavor. I don't particularly see anything alignment indicative about his claim and nothing about his last post has improved my opinion on him (esp. since now he's gunning for his opposing lynch wagon when he wasn't before).

With regards to Crowler, I was actually okay with him up until his claim post. I just don't like that the way he claimed. He basically said, "hey, I'm subbing out, but I'm vanilla townie so it's ok if you lynch me" which could be reverse psychology to NOT lynch him because of that. Ironically, I think a post Komaeda makes in favor of town!Crowler actually makes him feel more scum to me.

1 hour ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

Vanilla claims aren't nearly strong enough to be stepping stones for town, and I'm not lynching it.  There's no benefit to Scum!Crowler claiming vanilla in this situation.  If I were scum subbing out, I would have just subbed out and let people settle on Endeavor (especially considering Endeavor hasn't claimed yet).  People are oddly reluctant to lynch people who sub out, so he easily could have done this w/little to no repercussion.

But didn't Crowler already say they are requesting a sub? And now you're oddly reluctant to lynch him. Insert the :thinking: emoji.

Also you wouldn't lynch a vanilla claim? I'm probably misinterpreting your words, but I feel like you contradicted yourself here. I feel that your thought process is authentic but I'm afraid even my large brain can't follow your hopeful logic process.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I have to run errands now but I'll be back roughly 3 hours before the deadline (or earlier, depending on how quick I am). Some other things before I forget:

Admittedly I've been flip-flopping on my Mello read, but I have to admit that I agree with Titania's assertion that his reaction was genuine. I disagree that the action of trying to push a lynch on someone via drafting mechanics is alignment indicative, but I think the town-tell is actually from the identity slip. He speed-posted so fast (okay, it was only a few minutes between the claim, but still dang close) on his main account, and this is where Titania's point of scum would be more careful/discuss with members is valid.

50 minutes ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

I strongly believe that Faye is the most likely sub out to be scum (and that one of the sub outs is scum), so get hyped for her to be subbed in first over Lapis or Dr. Crowler.

Toshio/Kratos are where I'd look at for the third scumbuddy (Kratos because Batter's remark about how they stopped posting as soon as they stopped being cased was good).  Feel free to shoot either of these players SK so that I don't have to read them! 

Do you think that one of the sub outs is scum because they're getting subbed out, or because you thought one of them was scum before this? It's kind of unclear from your wording, and I hope for your sake (or at least my perception on yourself), that it's the latter. I don't really follow if it's the former point.I agree with the latter with regards to who should be placed under scrutiny tomorrow. Toshio not as much, but especially Kratos. The feeling when you actually brought up the Kratos point first but your brilliant ideas never get attributed to you, feels bad man... I actually marked in my (admittedly early!) notes that I had one of Mello/Kratos were probably scum (but not both), so I'm most concerned with him.

6 hours ago, Titania Andersen said:

Kratos, what are your thoughts on the leading wagons? Crowler, Mello, Endeavor.

@Mercenary Kratos Titania didn't ping you, so I'm afraid you'll miss this otherwise and I'd really like this answered. I'm most interested in hearing your thoughts about Mello (the before and after too, if the identity-slip changes your opinion). You've seemed a little complacent with regards to the wagons "I'll switch to Endeavor before phase ends", but you've expressed sorta that you would vote Mello (this was a while back, in the post where you said you'd sheep Toshio's case on them), so I thought you scumread them. I just would like an answer about your complacency, because even though the majority of the votes are on Endeavor, it doesn't mean 100% we are lynching them; for example, the Batter is batting (ok, you can shoot me now) for Crowler to get lynched over Endeavor.

[All Might]

@Nagito Komaeda Are those opinions of Crowler's really enough? His opinion of Kratos seems entirely based around Kratos tunnelling and then stopping, when Kratos didn't really tunnel. He didn't ask for more from The Batter until he was asked for an opinion of the Batter. Iunno maybe I'm being unnecessarily critical of their opinions on D1.

The Batter thinking Endeavor is town makes me want to lynch Crowler more too because I trust their townreading ability. I also think Crowler is scummy based on their meta, they have a hard time forming opinions D1 and are very team oriented and are more likely to sub out. #AnonMeta

##Unvote

##Vote: Dr Crowler

Lynch here and wait and see on Endeavor imo. At least we can see what Endeavor has to offer later.

[All Might]

Rick makes some good points on Kratos too yuck. Too late to turbo here though.

[All Might]

I think I might just be getting paranoid.

@Endeavor Top 3 scum reads/town reads and why, what did you make of my Beast logic?

[Kamina]

7 hours ago, Titania Andersen said:

I just fell asleep from roughly the time of my last post to about ten minutes ago, so maybe I won't be around for phase end. I'll do my best to be awake.

Kratos, what are your thoughts on the leading wagons? Crowler, Mello, Endeavor.

I'm perfectly fine with a Lynch on either Mello or Endeavor and have been pretty null on Endeavor until this post.

Also I've posted endeavor cases/mello cases previously and have been fairly adamant about scum reading them I thought.

4 hours ago, Dr. Crowler said:

sorry folks, i'm going to sub out (and have already requested one). not keeping up as well as i would like, and irl is going to only get busier soon. i wouldn't even mind if this slot got lynched, since i don't have any role to speak of.
pick order was (7,5) for 10th, tried to pick mayor since i figured it would have been a moderately useful town pick that wouldn't get taken until late, but alas, kokichi got it before i did

go nuts

My gut says I don't like this subbing out here.   Sorry I wasn't really around that much yesterday.  I don't quite get why Crowler seemed to be so high up on everyone's scum reads though previously.

WRT some people stating I haven't been scum hunting I've had four fairly strong scum reads and have posted my reads/cases on them before yesterday and up until I wasn't really active yesterday none of my top 4 scum reads had been active at the time I was available.  I was fairly null on mostly everyone else outside of my town reads but I guess I should have been talking more to the null reads to get stronger town reads on them at that time. apologies.

@Rick I don't really think I've been complacent WRT the wagons. I've stated a plain dislike for Endeavor and had him as my Third(I believe) priority for a lynch when I posted my top 4 suspects.  WRT my vote on Titania and me saying  I would vote Mello previously I also said I wanted to keep my vote on Titania because I felt strongly about that read.

Also I need to quote some things because I believe someone messed up or my logic isn't properly working after waking up.   There was some weird business WRT number claims.

[Kamina]

4 hours ago, Dr. Crowler said:

sorry folks, i'm going to sub out (and have already requested one). not keeping up as well as i would like, and irl is going to only get busier soon. i wouldn't even mind if this slot got lynched, since i don't have any role to speak of.
pick order was (7,5) for 10th, tried to pick mayor since i figured it would have been a moderately useful town pick that wouldn't get taken until late, but alas, kokichi got it before i did

go nuts

 

3 hours ago, Mello said:

Thought of not posting but then realized that would be a dick move.

(7,4), placed further from 10th. 

 

2 hours ago, Endeavor said:

I thought to pick 7 as the x thinking nobody else would pick it.... seriously people?

I'm (7,3), 9th in draft order and vanila town. I tried picking vengeful, because I'd rather have that extra kill in the hands of town (and because I thought it was fitting for my character).

Someone has to be lying here.

[Kamina]

Also I don't think Mello's post WRT is alignment indictive outside of the stuff I posted where I think someone is lying.  Could have easily been hunting for SK or SK could be hunting for mafia.

[Kamina]

For what it matters if you aren't seeing what I'm seeing.

Endeavor - 7,3 - 9th

Mello - 7,4 - FURTHER FROM 10th - This implies higher than 10 but if Endeavor was 9th then this is impossible.

DR. crowler - 7,5 - 10th.

 

Either endeavor or Mello appear to be lying in my book.

[Refakitty³]

There's also the condition where if multiple people pick the same co-ordinates, they all go to the bottom, so it doesn't have to be that one of us is lying, and that there was another person who picked 7,4.

[Kamina]

Oh. It seemed to me at first that I was thinking that you were implying you were above 10 in pick order.

That makes more sense.

[Kamina]

MEllo's post WRT the numbers things made me feel a bit better about him but not to the point that I would call him town.

I think I would still lynch endeavor and DR. Crowler's option to sub out strikes me the wrong way so I might actually be more inclined to lynch Crowler > endeaver at the moment but part of that is gut based and biased on the fact that I've never liked it when people subbed out near the end of a day phase that they are a lynch candidate.