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Lightchao42

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: Behold the true power of the Aegis! (Pyra/Mythra releasing later today!)

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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Sephiroth looks kind of cluttered here in this character select-

Yeah, how about some character select customization you doofus? Even sorting by series or alphabetically would be an immediate improvement

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We wanted to make a kind of boss rush mode

Dude, you KNOW how easy it would be to make that a proper mode right? How dare you tease us with that.

Quote

Eh, it's a 20 year old game, nobody should care about spoilers

Jesus, Sakurai gives no shits today.

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Sephiroth looks good, and I'm glad we have a decent number of FF songs and Spirits now. They're restricted to FFVII, granted, but it's better than what we had before.

rQHzfVGl.jpg

Spirits not shown here include Chocobo & Moogle, Shiva, and the Turks & Rufus, and there should also be a Legend spirit we don't know about yet.

Lastly, Sephiroth is available early if you bought his DLC pack/the Fighters Pass already, though he won't officially release until December 22. He comes with his stage and music but not the spirits, so we'll have to wait for those.

Edited by Lightchao42

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39 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Seeing the amount of love put into Sephiroth kinda highlights just how dirty they did Ganondorf. The iconic Final Fantasy villain gets all the love in the world. The iconic Zelda villain gets captain Falcon. 

Yeah, I really hope SSB6 gives us an overhauled Ganondorf moveset that better represents him in his own series. They can save the trident stuff for Classic Ganon, but I'd like to see Ganondorf at least throw some magic energy balls around, and make more use of that sword. Brawl Ganondorf should have been a clone or semiclone of Ike, if anyone. At least his smashes in SSBU use the sword, though.

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Seeing the amount of love put into Sephiroth kinda highlights just how dirty they did Ganondorf. The iconic Final Fantasy villain gets all the love in the world. The iconic Zelda villain gets captain Falcon. 

 

39 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Yeah, I really hope SSB6 gives us an overhauled Ganondorf moveset that better represents him in his own series. They can save the trident stuff for Classic Ganon, but I'd like to see Ganondorf at least throw some magic energy balls around, and make more use of that sword. Brawl Ganondorf should have been a clone or semiclone of Ike, if anyone. At least his smashes in SSBU use the sword, though.

All Ganondorf needs to stay true to his home game is some alternate specials and some better grabs. His Captain Falcon moveset has already been made quite distinct from Captain Falcon with actual attacks from the source material. To go over some of the examples

*His forward/down tilt is the Pushing Kick he uses in Twilight Princess (added in Brawl)

*His forward aerial (which was always different from Captain Falcon's even way back in Melee) is based on an attack he uses in the manga and some official artwork.

*His jab also resembles how he holds his hand out to cast magic in Ocarina of Time in the cutscene where he first meets Link (it even deals electric damage like his projectiles in Ocarina of Time), though a little disjointed hitbox magic effect to make that more clear and to give it more range would be appreciated (this attack didn't change much between Melee and Brawl in terms of mechanics, but it was a straight punch in Melee while a palm jab in Brawl, which convinces me it was an intentional change)

*And of course he obviously uses a sword in his Smash attacks (though I'd love if he had his old forward smash which comboed into a sword like that one elbow slash he does in Twilight Princess).

*Also obviously, Flame Choke (added in Brawl) is based on the rushing attack he uses to kill the Water Sage in Twilight Princess (as well as his habit of choke holding people in The Wind Waker)

*Lastly while Dark Dive was stolen from Captain Falcon originally (though giving a punch ending flourish in Brawl to make it a more mechanically different attack), it already displays Ganondrof's ability to fly well enough. Some kind of free flight mechanic like Pit's Brawl Up Special wouldn't really work for his style of moveset (and obviously was too powerful an attack considering they've changed it with a generic upwards boost since then). Ganondorf is a heavy set powerful attacker which shouldn't be changed.

*Oh and also ever since he started back handing people in The Wind Waker, Warlock Punch was changed to an elaborate backhanded punch rather than a straight forward Falcon Punch (another change from Brawl).

So literally all he needs is for them to bring back custom specials and to give him a lightning ball alternate special attack and he's set. I'd throw in a Cape move like Mario for good measure so Ganondorf's can play tennis all day (though I'd also really like his Grab range to be increased and to give us some more visually distinctive throw moves).

Edited by Jotari

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Whether or not Falcondorf has changed enough to differentiate himself, I still believe he deserves better and needs to go. Make him the best Ganondorf - HW Ganondorf. With tweaks to include the trident.

 

Also, Sephiroth is amazing. I'm predicting high or even top tier.

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3 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, Sephiroth is amazing. I'm predicting high or even top tier.

Really? He seems to lose pretty hard to exceptionally fast characters (Pika, ZSS, Roy, Chrom, etc) 

His projectile... isnt that great. His opening frames are poor, which is never good. And while his range is good, closing the gap on him wasnt too difficult, at least to me. His recovery is linear and has alot of endlag as well, so going for rogue KOs is risky.

If anything, I'd say hes maybe a bit above average. Losing to fast characters is never a good sign. 

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12 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

*Lastly while Dark Dive was stolen from Captain Falcon originally (though giving a punch ending flourish in Brawl to make it a more mechanically different attack), it already displays Ganondrof's ability to fly well enough. Some kind of free flight mechanic like Pit's Brawl Up Special wouldn't really work for his style of moveset (and obviously was too powerful an attack considering they've changed it with a generic upwards boost since then). Ganondorf is a heavy set powerful attacker which shouldn't be changed.

So literally all he needs is for them to bring back custom specials and to give him a lightning ball alternate special attack and he's set. I'd throw in a Cape move like Mario for good measure so Ganondorf's can play tennis all day (though I'd also really like his Grab range to be increased and to give us some more visually distinctive throw moves).

I like the ideas i bolded, as PM has these two things implemented (That is, Ganon can temporarily hover, and his neutral B attack is his cape swipe from OoT.)

would be nice to see them in newer smash games as well.

Edit, oops, i thought i was editing my already made post. Sorry about that, mods!

Edited by lightcosmo
accidental double post

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We can split hairs on whether or not Ganondorf is still too similar to Captain Falcon. It doesn't matter. The very fact that it is still a discussion is proof in and of itself that Ganondorf's current implementation is a disservice to his character. This isn't even a conversation that we should need to have. One of Nintendo's most iconic villains (second only to Bowser) deserves more than to be a semi-clone of a glorified NASCAR driver. Period.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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2 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

We can split hairs on whether or not Ganondorf is still too similar to Captain Falcon. It doesn't matter. The very fact that it is still a discussion is proof in and of itself that Ganondorf's current implementation is a disservice to his character. This isn't even a conversation that we should need to have. One of Nintendo's most iconic villains (second only to Bowser) deserves more than to be a semi-clone of a glorified NASCAR driver. Period.

Or the fact that people are still talking about it means some people just can't get over the fact that Ganondrof is the way he is in Smash (and that's fine). Hell I'm sure some people are still ranting about hoe Ridley is too big somewhere. Doesn't mean I have to care about their opinions. The truth of the matter is that Ganondorf both already references his home series reasonably well and is a tonne of fun to play as as a Smash character. In fact, I'd say he represents his home series far better than Zelda actually does, who twenty years later is still stealing Ocarina of Time spells from Link instead of doing the things she does in her own game. Where's the call for Zelda to have a sword? In fact, she's actually regressed in her references compared to Ganondorf since they removed the Light Arrows as her final smash. All she has is her Down Special and that's it. And it's not like the material isn't there. They could at least give her the attack she uses to subdue Ganon in Ocarina of Time as some kind of variation of Thoron. Or the Triforce mines she uses in her boss fight in Twilight Princess. Hyrule Warriors represents Zelda far better than Smash does. But Zelda is magical and so she does magic in Smash is generally enough for people even though nothing that she actually does relates to her in game appearances at all.

Edited by Jotari

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Watching Sephiroth dittos is pretty funny. Like a turn based game. I go, then you go. He's definitely got some issues with fast and especially low dashing characters. I definitely don't think he's bad. Just meh until the One Wing activates. 30% damage boost is no joke on top of the speed boosts. Gigaflare becomes strong enough to pop a full shield, and it's hard to fight the instinct to block it when it's about to detonate near you. Kirby's version of the move is also strong enough to pop a shield, despite lacking the One Wing boost. I'm a little miffed at Octaslash killing at 70 at the ledge. It's especially brutal with how it can scoop up somebody hanging at the ledge. On stage though, it's laggy enough that you can F-Smash him after blocking it. Talk of tiers is premature as always though. We haven't had an offline major tournament in a year to really judge the state of the game. And I doubt anybody out there can claim to be good at this character. Heck, I've yet to witness a single Sephy triple jump when the One Wing is activated. It's still amateur hour.

Edited by Glennstavos

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13 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Watching Sephiroth dittos is pretty funny. Like a turn based game. I go, then you go. He's definitely got some issues with fast and especially low dashing characters. I definitely don't think he's bad. Just meh until the One Wing activates. 30% damage boost is no joke on top of the speed boosts. Gigaflare becomes strong enough to pop a full shield, and it's hard to fight the instinct to block it when it's about to detonate near you. Kirby's version of the move is also strong enough to pop a shield, despite lacking the One Wing boost. I'm a little miffed at Octaslash killing at 70 at the ledge. It's especially brutal with how it can scoop up somebody hanging at the ledge. On stage though, it's laggy enough that you can F-Smash him after blocking it. Talk of tiers is premature as always though. We haven't had an offline major tournament in a year to really judge the state of the game. And I doubt anybody out there can claim to be good at this character. Heck, I've yet to witness a single Sephy triple jump when the One Wing is activated. It's still amateur hour.

Wait, has he been released already? I have the Season 2 fighter pass yet I haven't got him yet. How early is the early release? Where are you getting such detailed info about his performance>

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8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Wait, has he been released already? I have the Season 2 fighter pass yet I haven't got him yet. How early is the early release? Where are you getting such detailed info about his performance>

Beating the Sephiroth Challenge on any difficulty unlocks everything to do with him except the DLC spirit board.

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1 minute ago, Azure loves his Half Elves said:

Beating the Sephiroth Challenge on any difficulty unlocks everything to do with him except the DLC spirit board.

Oh jeez. I didn't see that at all.

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@ganondorf discussion: I'd be fine with this being Smash's Ganondorf if it meant we could still get beast Ganon in some form, since I think that would make for a more interesting fighter. Ganondorf himself hasn't really been a presence in a zelda game for a while anyway, and he's only missing one projectile attack to be a flawless representation of OoT Ganondorf. People really like this incarnation of him too. I remember before Smash 4 came out, people were legit depressed at him not returning, despite brawl's iteration being far and away the lamest we'd ever seen him. But it just turned out he was one of the unmentioned veterans leading up to release. 

I do understand calls for a remaster though. When they changed Bowser for Smash 4, it made me an instant fan, since he looked and felt like his Bowser's Inside Story incarnation. The only issue I have is his voice still being out of date, especially when Bowser's current voice actor is still being put to work regularly on the character and sounds more iconic than vague raptor noises.

30 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

How does Seph's D tilt fare against fast characters? Seems like one of his better answers to, say Pikachu and Sonic. Along with Scintilla.

Dtilt is sort of an answer, but it doesn't lead to anything and is very laggy on whiff or block. I'd recommend getting used to angling F-tilt downward. Doing so doesn't cut its range very much and compared to his other sword moves, it's pretty low end lag. It even hits low enough to catch a Kirby crouching in front of you. As for scintilla, it can only counterattack if they're hitting the wall. If the attack only connects with his body, it won't get countered. it's no help if your opponent is attacking from above or below, of if they can slip behind you, and that really cuts its usefulness as a counter. You're generally using those to edgeguard or land safely. The only thing it really has over other counters is that it always activates, which can beat an opponent winding up a smash attack in front of you. And it's not especially punishable on block either. A lot of players will probably overestimate what they can punish that move with.

Edited by Glennstavos

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So Sephiroth challenge is kid of boring. It's just a regular old stamina match against him. Would have been far better if he was in One Winged Angel form throughout the entire match. Then it'd feel a bit more special than just whaling on a Sephiroth AI. I'm also not much of a fan of the Northern Cave as a stage. I'm kind of sick of stages that are just a lame ass floating platforms with a flash background. I want to actually feel like I'm fighting at a location, not watching a background movie. Final Destination already does that (for every stage in the game). Sephiroth himself is a tonne of fun though. One of the better DLC character so far. Shadow Flare and Flare are particularly fun moves.

Edited by Jotari

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18 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Yeah, I really hope SSB6 gives us an overhauled Ganondorf moveset that better represents him in his own series. They can save the trident stuff for Classic Ganon, but I'd like to see Ganondorf at least throw some magic energy balls around, and make more use of that sword. Brawl Ganondorf should have been a clone or semiclone of Ike, if anyone. At least his smashes in SSBU use the sword, though.

Yeah; an overhauled Ganondorf would be cool. I especially agree about including more of his magic, as that would help him stand out a lot more. I could see him not only using his magic attacks from Ocarina of Time, but also perhaps having him summon a phantom-ganon like the ones he summons during his cavalry fight in Twilight Princess: the ones that exist purely to just charge at Link and knock him off his horse. 

That said, by the time that SSB6 exists, BOTW2 will probably also exist, which would probably mean BOTW2 Ganondorf. Perhaps that's how Ganon will get an overhaul (as a mummy can't exactly be expected to punch). 

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20 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Sephiroth looks good, and I'm glad we have a decent number of FF songs and Spirits now. They're restricted to FFVII, granted, but it's better than what we had before.

rQHzfVGl.jpg

Spirits not shown here include Chocobo & Moogle, Shiva, and the Turks & Rufus, and there should also be a Legend spirit we don't know about yet.

Lastly, Sephiroth is available early if you bought his DLC pack/the Fighters Pass already, though he won't officially release until December 22. He comes with his stage and music but not the spirits, so we'll have to wait for those.

Is that a leak screenshot of what the actual Sephiroth's Spirit Board looks like or did you photoshop it to make it what your vision of what Sephiroth's Spirit Board might look before we see in Patch 10.0.1 update comes on December 22nd? I do think the Avalanche Trio (Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie) might show up in the Spirit Board since the Remake managed to flesh out more likeable than the original handled along with Rufus and the Turks in there as well.

Edited by King Marth 64

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3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

How does Seph's D tilt fare against fast characters? Seems like one of his better answers to, say Pikachu and Sonic. Along with Scintilla.

Imo, he doesnt have many answers to fast characters, which is an issue. Sure he low profiles a bit, but generally when going toe to toe, he cant keep up with them.

Edited by lightcosmo

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32 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

Is that a leak screenshot of what the actual Sephiroth's Spirit Board looks like or did you photoshop it to make it what your vision of what Sephiroth's Spirit Board might look before we see in Patch 10.0.1 update comes on December 22nd? I do think the Avalanche Trio (Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie) might show up in the Spirit Board since the Remake managed to flesh out more likeable than the original handled along with Rufus and the Turks in there as well.

It's from a press release.

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23 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Sephiroth looks good, and I'm glad we have a decent number of FF songs and Spirits now. They're restricted to FFVII, granted, but it's better than what we had before.

rQHzfVGl.jpg

Spirits not shown here include Chocobo & Moogle, Shiva, and the Turks & Rufus, and there should also be a Legend spirit we don't know about yet.

Lastly, Sephiroth is available early if you bought his DLC pack/the Fighters Pass already, though he won't officially release until December 22. He comes with his stage and music but not the spirits, so we'll have to wait for those.

My projections for the Spirits we haven't seen yet:

Spoiler
  • Cait Sith
    • Fighters: Donkey Kong, Incineroar
    • Stage: Rainbow Ride
    • Music: Let the Battles Begin!
    • Conditions:
      • The enemy prefers to avoid conflict.
    • Skill: Improved Escape
  • Cid
    • Fighter: Fox McCloud
    • Stage: Halberd
    • Music: Main Theme of FINAL FANTASY VII
    • Trait: Jump 
  • Vincent
    • Fighter: Snake
    • Stage: Luigi's Mansion
    • Music: Let the Battles Begin!
    • Trait: Shooting Items Power 
  • Yuffie
    • Fighter: Sheik
    • Stage: Suzaku Castle
    • Music: Let the Battles Begin!
    • Conditions:
      • The enemy starts with a Boomerang.
      • The enemy is easily distracted by items.
    • Skill: Thrown Items 

I find it interesting that there's a second row of spirits on the second page. Could we be getting more than 11, this time?

I hope we start seeing some other Final Fantasy games get some love eventually. Especially the first one that started it all!

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1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

I hope we start seeing some other Final Fantasy games get some love eventually. Especially the first one that started it all!

Well the first FF chars have already gotten representation in the form of Mario Hoops 3 on 3 and Mario Sports Mix. Not that I would mind, but different choices would be nice.

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